haih... nothing satisfies you...

anyways... was your car washing out previously without the yokos?

maybe the sidewall stiffness coupled with your stiff setup is not working well... put in more negative camber la...

previously no, and my setup is actually soft while the tire being stiff. it doesn't push the tires to the road enough especially during road imperfections.

during the video, camber was at -2.6-2.7 lol.
inner is definitely more utilized as it's showing 50celcius as opposed to the outer tire 40 celcius (using infrared thermometer gun)

it can't be that much on your compression/rebound settings since it worked well with the previous tires...

have you suspected the tire pressure? if you have colder outer tire that means that the tire is not evenly contacting the ground while it is heating up on the insides because it is being driven around with the insides contacting the ground more.... might want to try minimizing the camber and see if that helps..

yeap that is definitely the plan, and playing around with toe settings, as well as tire air pressure, be it hot/cold

it looks like your initial turn in seems to be fine and it starts to drift wide after you turn in....(i am not in the car... so, it's hard to tell by watching the video only without being able to look at the steering actions)

i usually prefer to have 0-0 toe on the fronts as it's more neutral...

at the moment i'm having front -1.8/-2.0 ish camber and 1mm toe in each side, not a huge difference on steering feel, stability seems improved.

i dont think i'd mind less twitch/agile steering capabilities so long the car is stable, and then we can slowly take it from there once i reached stability.

fuuuh... either you own a tyre shop... or you memang tak kira spending those money trying to get things right....

Likely so. Video shows that the car is carrying quite a bit of speed. Now, this is no 850KG Iswara. Weight/Car is the issue here. My 900kg Satria corners like a housefly on cheap tires and stockish suspension.

Cant see how much steering angle you are having to put in from the video.

Soft dampers actually give you more grip. Harder dampers do not necessary give you more grip, it does give you more control to push it to the limit on a SMOOTH track. Try going up sempah on a hard setup and you'd be making a date with the hillside.

my iswara is the older full spec auto, so it had very close to 1 ton (the original paper sheet kerb weight was over 900kg ady iinm), not to mention subwoofer and sound proofing and lotsa stupid snake worm bars.

regardless, it still isn't a 1280+driver 1360 kg inspira no doubt.
and the more speed it carries, the more momentum additional weight will affect.

well that's what RCS is been telling me for my dampers, overall it's the combination of the tires and dampers. if i want to run these tires, i need harder dampers to push the tires to the ground more to deal with road imperfections.

to give an idea, softer tires (particularly sidewall) can deform to road imperfections (lets use a rock as an example), and stay firm on the ground. harder tires like these ad08r has steel plate reinforcement on the sidewall to make it very damn stiff, road imperfections will cause it to "bounce/hop" off from the road and when that happens, that's good bye to grip/traction already, even if it's only for a split second.

not to mention, if it isn't pushed to the ground hard enough, there will be a point where the weight shift/damper rebound will exceed the softer dampers limitations, while you may not realize it as you're having a false sense of grip due to the much grippier r spec compounds the ad08r offers.
it'll be a dangerous situation where you're still having firm grip and then out of a sudden your car is sliding non stop.

you'll probably never see such situation happen in my videos as i have stability control system to limit the car's power/correct any traction lost via braking modulation. However the screeches despite "not so fast" cornering speed (definitely something the ad08r by right should EASILY handle) should be a dead giveaway.

tldr/summary/lesson learned: soft or hard dampers, coilovers with extremely stiff springs, extreme tires (like the ad08r) or semi slicks, you'll need a good overall combination to make things work and not simply dumping the best/most expensive piece and expect miracles to happen.

+1
Agreed on this
Tyre is one of the biggest variable that your suspension should be set around to work with
Do update us with what is the step you take to make AD08R work better

Quazacolt

what's your spring rates like? since RCS themselves mentioned the suspension is soft for the tires, did they recommend to revalve or increase the spring rates?

This post has been edited by overfloe: Sep 19 2014, 08:36 AM

I understand your take on this.

Unfortunately, not knowing how your Inspira was set up, kind of hard to guess. I think the issue lies something other than just the damper/spring settings. The key element here is we still do not know what sort of steering angle you had to input when it washed wide.

Im going to throw in another spanner. Most wont realise it but how your front behaves sometime depend on a lot of that the rears do. Maybe you are looking at the wrong end of the car. Food for thought.

4k front 3k rear, RCS don't rely on springs a lot for their stiffness

they did recommended for revalving however they made it clear comfort will be thrown out the window, so it's something i do not wish to compromise as a daily ride.

As mentioned, if the experts (RCS) themselves said it's the dampers being unsuitable, i don't think it's worth the effort to dispute them.

besides between inspira/iswara are both different ball game entirely.

in fact in regards to wet performance, my iswara had absolutely no issue going above 160 (with damn awesome splash waves lol) passing through mrr2's stagnated water puddles under very heavy rain (around fajar/kepong area towards the metropolitan park)

the inspira was struggling for grip/traction after hitting water puddles around 140-150kph, although surprisingly, ASC did not trigger unlike those shitty cc5 that can even trigger on 60kph in a straight

it could very well be the car's weight, or the wider profile tires (225vs195, 17" vs 15"), who knows. but the difference is there.

Soft dampers does not necessarily give you more grip...it's a matter of adjusting the rebound / compression damping on the shocks...

actually... the dampers should be doing it's job... however the wheel is moving, it should be controlling the actions to keep the wheel as planted as possible...that is the role of the suspension system in racing applications...

and it's also the best not to keep damper travel too short as it will limit how much the wheel can traverse... if it's too short and the damper tops out... you will have situations where the wheel cannot maintain contact patch on certain road conditions like wavy ones... this is why the better absorbers use body shift to control car ride height instead of playing with the spring seats to lower or increase ride height...

when it comes to damper setup... depending on which aspect of motorsports you do is to always get your weight transfer correct so when you fling your car into a corner (depending on how ganas you are lar, smooth is always better)... it will help gradually shift weight over rather than fling the whole bulk of it over to one side of the car causing the tire to start slipping from all the extra load it has to carry on top of trying to slow or accelerate the car...

of course, it's better if your damper has separate damping adjustments for low / high speed compression and rebound damping... that way you can setup you dampers more specifically rather than have a knob that tunes all damping settings at one go...


This post has been edited by nm7: Sep 22 2014, 10:17 AM

my current damper have no knobs to tune

ok lar... just a bit more troublesome... even if you get adjustment knobs... it's only within a certain range of minor adjustments you can make...

i like the dampers that do not have knobs... cheap, and no unique parts to f@ck up... imagine the rod koyak on those models... sure habis kena potong kaw kaw when you require it to be replaced....

i also remembered you said something in regarding your video that the situation improved after a short while and stopped washing out as badly after you start giving it the stick... shock oil is also one major factor in shock performance where you want it to be as consistent as possible as it goes through the heat changes... so, when it's colder when the shock is not being pummeled as hard as when you are giving it it the beans... it might react in one way and it will change characteristics when the oil heats up as it changes viscosity... this is why even when a shock is to be ran through a damper dyno... it has to go through a warm up workout first before the series of test begins in order to make sure they do not get the wrong readings...

of course, if you can spend like how you are willing to pay for doing alignment and camber adjustments... you can ask your shock maker to see if they are willing to let you bring your own shock oil (silkolene, motul, any brand you prefer) when you revalve or change settings and let you have the readings from the damper dyno for referential purposes...

it's all about narrowing it down to the settings that you want... so, you need to lock down all the variables that can play havoc with your shocks like the brand of oil being used... best is always to get the shock dyno readouts so you know how to adjust or replicate it back the next time it requires a revalve...

This post has been edited by nm7: Sep 22 2014, 10:26 AM

i got my shocks from RCS, feel free to contact them for your suggestions lol:
http://www.rcs-suspensions.com/Contacts.html
https://www.facebook.com/RCS.suspensions
afaik they on silkolene anyways

also, im not sure why you're surprised on the alignment/camber spending, because i only spent like less than rm40 for alignment/camber adjustments.
i don't go sunway or something and spend rm100-150 (or more) per adjustment lol.

i am just saying lar... you as the customer can demand mar since the shocks are not those mass manufactured stock units anyways... just whether you have that experimentative mentality or not only...

i am not surprised... but it sounded like you are willing to go do alignment or camber so frequently like it's going to the arcade center like that... RM40 once done over 4 times per month just to get it spot on means it's RM160 adi....

of course with absorbers it's harder lar.. you have to pay to get it unmounted, hang the car somewhere or put back the stock units while it gets serviced and then pay again to unmount the stock to re-install the serviced ones... (and then repeat again if you boh syiok with it)

got RM100 dollar alignment service charge in sunway one arh??? wah!!! ganasnya dia punya calculator...

as much as you can demand, they do charge for re-tunes/re-valving as they aren't titan lol (tune by feel, not by calculations/extensive testing)

per revalve/retune iinm is ~800-1k++
compared to say, rm40 for alignment.
the choice was pretty obvious lol

not to mention, if i revalve the dampers to suit my ad08r, comfort will be gone, and that's not something i'm readily willing to compromise for a daily driven car.

but hey like you said, arcade centers are actually more expensive than alignment/camber trips and it gives a lot less satisfaction too. reminds me i still haven't finish my wangan midnight 4 story mode lol

and yeah, sunway horsepower street is filled with customers willing to splurge, no surprise they charge a premium for pretty much anything, everything.

RM40 vs RM800... mana wa tau you ohh... maybe you dun mind leh...

i know lar they charge for re-tuning... but some shock makers don't let you choose or bring the fork oil of your choice... let alone let you see their dyno results... so, if they willing... then pick their brains and get involved in the process la... that's wat i am trying to say only....

actually... i have sat in cars which is very contradictory to what we have always been thought to believe.. as we are not on smooth surfaces like a track... it doesn't require a hard setup all the time to get the car to behave well... as i said earlier, trying to manage weight transfer and keep the car within the traction circle is more important... again, it is really a case of driver preference and technique because it's a thing with mentality...

i have sat in a Mivec'ed wira before going for a whack in ulu yam... the car was setup to be only slightly lowered and surprisingly a lot of damper travel and not hard like the entire car is bouncing all over the place or unsettles with the slightest un-evenness (if that is a word, spell check is mind f@king me) on the road... so, the car still pitches and rolls quite a bit and doesn't quite stay flat through the turns... but it just hooks on and the driver can step on it mid-turn to get it out of the turn (helped no less by an LSD la)...it's still no stock damper setup but it's soft by today's usual damper setups

the thing is that quite a lot of cars are setup so hard that they got brainwashed that it is the way to go and it gives you a sort of feel that you are driving a fast car... any hints of the car pitching automatically unsettles the drivers nerves...

that ride in that car totally turned my beliefs inside out...

car wash?

This post has been edited by nm7: Sep 22 2014, 12:29 PM