looks like the 'indian syndrome' has descended upon msia.......actually it should be 'subcontinent syndrome'.....

every indian/parkistan/bangla medical student and junior doctor dreams of going to work and settle in the developed world........they will try all ways, sit for the plab, usmle (or ecfmg/vqe in the past), amc, whatever........

and of course these countries are very wary of the subcontinent people.....they have a tendency to stay on after visiting.......that is why there is NO visa on arrival in uk for them, unlike msian or singaporeans......

on the other hand, msians, sporeans, hongkies tend to do what they need to do, and then leave, return back to their own country.......for that reason, it was easier for them to get jobs compared to the subcontinent people........of course some stayed on, but that is more by chance/circumstances, rather than premeditated choice.........

looks like not any more.......not for msians anyway.....

understandably, these countries are wary of msians nowadays........uk is think of withdrawing the visa on arrival for msians.........

what happened to service to your people, and country.........??

private medical education destroyed that.......amongst other reasons, of course.......

sad......

p/s i should add that i am not criticising such decisions, if i were in your shoes now, i would certainly be thinking the same way.......how to abandon a sinking ship......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 14 2009, 11:59 PM

I see a good many had a lot to say about the uni.

But here this is just what i feel:

firstly i m csrulez's friend and classmate. We got the same grades too. I am foundation leaving student as well. he anyway asked me to join this forum. lol.

Here is what I feel:
The interview thing... yes!
While the entry requirements are questionable, that's a Uni policy (I am not going to comment on that as every other place in this country has discrepancies there.)

But I will vouch for the School of Medicine (SoM)... if one thing I can describe about from day 1 is quality. They try their level best to harness the best in us which results in an somewhat stressful schedule but as our VC put in the convo the other day, we need to pushed to realize our own potential. I see it this way; its not what you come in with but how you leave. The outcome.

Well, its a young school but we have done some great things. Our Clinical Skills Center is an example.

Our curriculum newly revised (so you might not see it yet) is super holistic and integrated and we have a lots of things going on parallelly. And our exams are no piece of cake either ... I dunno about other schools, we have this 1 minute 1 mark policy so you really have to know your stuff in order to do well. Our final papers go for 20MCQs, 5TFs, 6 SAQs(10 each) and 4 LAQs (20 each)... so there is always a 10% casualty each examination session in the first year. That is QC for you.

But as the many good things I say, we have some wrinkles to iron out which are these people who don't have an idea about the profession and live with their heads in the clouds and their hearts somewhere else. LOL.

But if there is one thing i learned in SoM is about how to learn from a certain excellent professor.

---

Added on January 15, 2009, 1:08 amQuoting limeuu

"what happened to service to your people, and country.........??

private medical education destroyed that.......amongst other reasons, of course.......

sad......

p/s i should add that i am not criticising such decisions, if i were in your shoes now, i would certainly be thinking the same way.......how to abandon a sinking ship......"

Sorry i dunno how to work the cool blue box quote yet.

I feel about the sinking ship thing is the main reason plus the fact that many doctors feel pressed in government service for many reasons like not getting their promotion or specialist courses because of subjective things like how the way were born into. I do not want to use the "r" word. After undergoing such discrimination, no wonder service becomes second-hand when it becomes unappreciated by your own people by the very fact that you are not looked upon as an "own people".

Though I feel that the all out attack on the subcontinent people is a bit unwarranted. They make one of the best teachers I have seen in my school. Some of them are ever so humble with superb qualifications. I know of many full ranked tenured Professors who are ever so welcoming to help any student any time. I know of one who helped to wake up a student everyday by calling the student every morning because that student had problems of punctuality. It worked. They are here because of their qualifications while some trying to earn a better livelihood and others just love teaching or practicing. Not all settle in developed nations. Most come on sabbaticals. To equate it to something as pathological like a syndrome is sadly opposing to their reasons.

We rarely hear about their countries of origin complain about that too; they instead welcome it by giving dual citizenships and give them the opportunity to bring new things back; even if not through them but through their children (Diaspora and POIs). So its part of becoming a global village and partnership.

It's all on how we see it. Just my two cents worth.

This post has been edited by rav063: Jan 15 2009, 01:08 AM

From what I read, AIMST program is based on University of Bristol's. And Bristol is one of the top 10 university in UK. So I guess the transfer is pretty successful.

my comments are factual, and not meant to be demeaning on any nationality........

be that as it may, ever wondered why they bothered to come to msia.........?

Education is now simply a form of business. It's a surprise that you are surprised.

err....
wow~so many pages already....
just want to confirm or ......well....

i got my muet result already....
so sad.....
just need 8 more marks then i can get band 5....
(cry...== )
my whole school only got 1 student get band 5
and the teachers are so desperate.....well....
i had try my best already....=,=
well...exclude the listening..i suppose my hearing got some problem...

so ....
i wonder ....
do i need to retake it and aim for band 5 for mbbs programme?

I am not sure. Depends on where you want to apply? Some universities have no English language requirements while some do.

---

Added on January 15, 2009, 7:04 pmEnlighten us then?

This post has been edited by rav063: Jan 15 2009, 07:04 PM

Wrong. Private medical education has nothing to do with us leaving. In fact, many of the non-bumi doctors from IPTAs are leaving too, thanks to the slim chance and ridiculously high requirement set for the non-bumis to secure a place in local master programme.

How can we serve our country when we are deemed as "penumpang" here?

I know you have some prejudice against private medical colleges, but pls dun simply associate it with some unrelated matters.

Also, pls provide evidence that the UK is thinking of withdrawing the visa on arrival for Msians.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 15 2009, 10:13 PM

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...6831&sec=nation

obviously don't read newspapers.......

---

Added on January 15, 2009, 11:25 pmread my caveat.......

fact remains, it's not service that motivates now, the attitude is mercenary.....

brain drain has been one of msia's major export since the 70's......but like i said, it was mostly circumstances, opportunities, that motivate migration.....now it very premeditated......

don't get defensive, i am not passing any value judgement, just making observations......

---

Added on January 15, 2009, 11:33 pmwhat would motivate you to go to say, hk, to work?

if you have offers for jobs and pr's from phillipines, hk and uk, which one would you choose?

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 15 2009, 11:38 PM

I suppose pay, the value of the whole experience, environment, local treatment of foreigners and a lot of peripheral factors like future career prospects and importantly furthering in education and research and skill sets.
I think you would say something about pay being up front there; but we have to be practical or there would be no point in moving. I am sure many graduates have a tonne in student loan and before even people think of service to the society; I think service and gratitude to their sponsor normally middle class parents matters. It's a profession. Expats try to gather wealth and experience in a different place. Wherever the are, they do what matters to them in passion. And my answer to the second question is would be UK (if they still take us in?); I neither speak the local languages for the other two countries and the Philippines is too unstable for me.

If you say the element of service is lost, I would just say what hypermax did; it was thrusted out of us. Many of us are getting by with what we worked on our (at least our sponsors) own. Simple scenario; they pay the same tax as a certain lot while receiving much lower benefits in return. Just like a bad and unfair investment. I think what you are saying is possible for a perfect world with perfect people. We are living in neither.

I repeat again, just my opinion.

ditto for the indians in aimst........

Most of us are singing this tone.
Can anyone just discuss what makes private colleges inferior to government institutions? Just put in on the table.

admission policy......for non-malays, that is.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 16 2009, 12:12 AM

Look who's getting defensive. I wasn't ridiculing you, was only asking for reference. BTW, you read all the articles in the newspaper? Also, not everylne here reads The Star you know?
In addition, the decision to withdraw the visa is due the fact that many tend to work there illegally. So you are suggesting that many Msian doctors are currently working illegally in the UK?

What makes you say it "very pre-mediated" now? The scenario was like before, non-bumis always have little chance in securing a seat in IPTA, let alone master programme.

So mind telling what your observation is based on?

BTW, let me remind you, private medical colleges like MMMC has taken many gov scholarship holders (in fact, almost 90% in the latest batch), and they are bound by the contract to serve in gov sector. Now tell me, how does private medical education destroy the spirit of "service to your people and your country"?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 16 2009, 02:19 PM

Ironically, quality of the IPTA doctors are on the decline too, which includes the non-bumis.

it's in all the newsapers.......and tv news.....

misbehaviour of others will reflect on all citizens of the country.......you are branded together.......

scholars with bonds are public funded, and NOT private students........even if they study in for profit private unis..........



This post has been edited by limeuu: Jan 16 2009, 06:01 PM

I dun think the news was published in the Chinese newspaper. And yes, i dun watch TV much, as i have night postings.

So now you are saying that the visa problem has nothing to do with msian doctors but other msians who abused the visa? Then why are you bringing it up in the discussion? Most doctors go overseas for training opportunities, not "pre-mediated" as you had mentioned. As a doctor yourself (as you claimed to be), you should know how limited the training opportunities are for non-bumi doctors locally.

Even though it's gov funded, they are still studying in private medical colleges (a.k.a private medical education), and therefore, branded as IPTS graduates or products of private medical education, whom you dislike. Your word: "private medical education destroys the 'service for your people and country' spirit".

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 16 2009, 06:57 PM

"........even if they study in for profit private unis.........."

Anything privatized has to run for profit. If not, it will run in loss and go bankrupt. Yippee deepee dodooo?! There are many private institutions in the world that produce the very best. May be if we look here, it could be MMU.

Well in any case they don't drink tax payer's cash and the employee's there do pay tax. Mind you, I think many Malaysians are currently concerned with what is happening at our public institutions with slumping quality and dropping off in global rankings. The staff there don't work on charity.

If at all, please let us know what makes private medical graduates any lesser or substandard to government graduates?

Dun take what he said too seriously. All this while, he has been bashing:
1. Russian and Ukrainian grads
2. IPTS grads
3. Bumi doctors from IPTA

He gives a perfect example of generalization, which is definitely not required for intelligent discussion.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jan 16 2009, 07:12 PM

you all obviously do not understand what i am saying.......never mind.....

where did i say 'private medical graduates any lesser or substandard to government graduates'?

i said 'what happened to service to your people, and country.........??

private medical education destroyed that.......amongst other reasons, of course.......'