That's if you're using asymmetric tires, then you cannot switch the tire/rims orientation but you can rotate left/right immediately. If directional symmetric tires, then there's no inside/outside so you can switch the sides, but for directional you need to change the tire/rim orientation to switch left/right.
As for the camber, cars which are running around 1-1.5 degrees will usually wear out the inner side just a bit more, will be a bit noticeable after around 10-20k km usage.
It's true that it might not be much difference between left/right and should not be if normal, but it's actually recommended to still rotate left-right if possible to really even out the wear. There won't be handling disadvantages. As for the cost, well when using non-directional tires I used to rotate myself for all 4 corners, so zero cost, just a little sweat which I take as extra work out! . If directional, then of course have to bring to tire shop, but then don't need to do it so often la. If want to save, can just do it every 15/20K km. The only other additional cost is a wheel realignment might be necessary but usually not.

Always change all together

bcos i rotate my tire regularly, until all worn out near the little 'pimple' in groove.
never bother about change front or back

^
this would be the ideal scenario

should replace tyre in rear first.

Imagine u cornering, ur rear tyre lose traction then it goes spinning and spinning.

if your front tyre lose traction, u can at least feel it lose traction or counter it back with ur steering. back lose traction you cant do anything.

of course if got money, replace all four lor.

got budget, change all
no budget, change new to the drive tyre
FWD- front
RWD- rear

or any side which need to change 1st, takkan depan sudah botak licin ko still nak tukar yang belakang?

This post has been edited by joefbi: Apr 1 2013, 10:23 AM

I voted REAR. Last time, I used to think that new tyres should be fitted front, but now I know better. Fish-tailing is not fun.

No leh, according to not so recent research, regardless of FWD, RWD AWD, all new tires have to be at the back.

if depan botak, u put ur rear set of tyre in front,

then rear get new tyres.

+1
its not recent research. Its just we arent aware of it, because our tyre shops usually recommend put new ones in front, so we just listened.
a quick reason to put better gripping tyre at the rear is, the rear is the direct relation to how straight your car is.

another debate I would like to discuss is... is shorter car like those B-segment really require VSC/ESP.... since a shorter car, chances of loosing the rear is lower...

Personally I'd rather have more grip in the front. Not being able to evade something that is in the way, or not being able to drive a corner and instead going straight (down a mountain, into a building, other cars...) sounds terrifying. Also, the front brakes do most of the work. If you have poor front tyres, stopping distance will be impaired. The only advantage of having the better tyres at the back is that it won't break loose so easily... but that can be brought under control by the driver... while for the disadvantages of having poor tyres in front there is _nothing_ you can do. You are going to crash, no matter what.

ESP also helps against rolling the car (especially important for taller cars... something like a Kancil, Viva, MyVi, Kenari, SUVs, pickups, MPVs, ...

I would also doubt that chances of loosing the rear is lower. I'd say it's exactly the opposite. You can easily control a Caterham during a drift... long wheelbase. A Clio V6 has to be driven by a master if you want to drive it at the limit... the rear will easily overtake you, and balancing it is hard. As soon as the rear breaks loose... Of course most small cars are not rear wheel drive, only the smart fortwo is amongst newer cars, and the Clio V6.

having a tail spin/oversteer is harder to control than understeer.
most understeer situations you can just brake more/apply engine braking, however for oversteer situations and/or when your car is already spinning out of control with the rear losing/lost traction, more often than not all you can do is pray. however if you're still able to maintain calm you could perhaps to attempt to countersteer, that's about it.

this is coming from experience of driving an iswara that fishtails HAPPY and in fact i just been in a terrible accident just 2+ months ago (before CNY january 2013) and the cause of it is due to my rear spun out of control, hit the road divider and got further spiraled out of control due to the impact from the rear.

regardless, i still stand firm that one should do proper tire management (eg: balancing/rotation/alignment) and change all 4 if possible

esp/vsc not only for fishtail situation. it can be use for both over or understeer.

As well as rolling:


Applying brakes with tyres that have no grip is a bit hard... and there may not be enough time/space to brake. Maybe it depends on how fishtail happy the car is?

Btw., the smart fortwo would be very dangerous without ESP. The same applies for the original A class... it easily rolled unless it was equipped with ESP.

I encountered understeer once when raining, forgot new tire on which side, i found out the more i press brake pedal, the car face more understeer, then i release the brake and correct using my steering.

Think of it this way. Even motorcycles have ABS and ESC.
So yes, ESC works wonders even for smaller wheelbase cars.

Yes, in event of tailspin, drivers will realize that the front 2-wheels are pretty useless when the BODY they are connected to, are misbehaving.
so how important are the 2 little wheels at the rear of the car? very important.

anyway, while the 2 rear wheels are important, NEVER neglect the front 2 as well.
Like many has clearly pointed out, we rely on them for many important things too.
This discussion is about putting new tyres at the rear, not about putting bad tyres in the front!

But if you put new cars at the rear, chances are the ones in front aren't exactly in good condition. Since most of the braking is also done with the front tyres... I'd rather have the best tyres in front.

Btw., the only time I ever encountered tailspin/oversteer was on snow/ice, using the handbrake. Understeer, yes. Had that before a few times. I find it quite scary, because usually there is a reason why I am steering in the first place. Like... a wall being in the way. Or the other side of the road, with cars on it. Or there is a reason why I need to brake hard... without having grip on the tyres that do most of the work...

How short is short? You must calculate the wheelbase length and not the length of the whole car (including the front and rear overhangs). The wheelbase of b-segment cars are not really that much shorter than a larger C-segment. The short overhangs on the b-segment makes it look like a shorter vehicle.

A shorter wheelbase car will have less chances of losing the rear and that is correct but you have to be so so so so so so so much shorter. The only thing that comes to mind is actually the Smartfortwo. That car would have very little chances of losing the rear as it drives like a go-kart. Other B-segments cars will lose the rear just as easily when you lose control and that is where VSC/ESP/ETC/ABC/123 will come in handy (but not a guaranteed) to help stabilise the car.

If the front is not in good condition, then all four should be changed. I believe that they are talking about here is in scenarios like this. You have 4 tires that is still good at 50%. You crash into a big hole and damage one of them. Since you have 4 at 50%, you can't just replace one tyre, therefore you replace 2. The question now would be where to put the 2 new tyres. This is when you put the new tyres in the rear and not the front.

You are giving a scenario like having 4 tyres at 15-25% wear left. If you bust a tyre with so little thread left on them, then it would be a better idea to change all 4. There is no need to discuss where the new tyres go since the thread levels between the tyres are so big that it would not be safe to use them either in front or rear.

If your normal practise is replace all 4 tyres at the same time, then should continue doing that.
For me, sometimes, due to damaged tyres (punctures, etc) I had to replace in pairs. So in those situations, I would move the new tyres to the rear 2 wheels. Anyway, I also dont dare to use bad tyres on the front. I replace when needed, because you are right, front wheels provide steering and most of the braking due to weight-force.

I read quite a bit on this rear wheel or front wheel topic. and I just decided to go with the "better tyres on rear" group.
There are still many people who prefer to put "better tyres on front" so I guess it works bothways.

My personal experience with slippage/car spin is on the NS highway on a moderate rainy day. Its not even heavy rain so I was driving around 100kmh in a car without ESC. I was driving in a straight road, but merely changing lanes when my car's tail decided to move sideways. My car turned in a circle and that was scary. Luckily no hit guard rails, and the car behind me were able to stop in time. I think that evening many people wasted money buy my nombor at toto but it didnt open.

not just the wheelbase, the weight distribution also have to take into consideration..

law of physic, still count.. the shorter it is, the chance are lower....