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 Your thoughts on the next HOTS patch, ..what should they nerf and buff?

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TruthHurts
post Apr 14 2013, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Apr 14 2013, 01:06 PM)
really~? how many spell caster zerg hav compare to toss~?
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Spell caster & specialised ability

Zerg

+ Infestor
+ Viper
+ Queen
+ Corruptor
+ Overseers

Protoss

+ High Templar
+ Oracle
+ Sentry
+ Mothership / Core
+ Phoenix
+ Voidrays


slimyboy
post Apr 14 2013, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(TruthHurts @ Apr 14 2013, 01:49 PM)
Spell caster & specialised ability

Zerg

+ Infestor
+ Viper
+ Queen
+ Corruptor
+ Overseers

Protoss

+ High Templar
+ Oracle
+ Sentry
+ Mothership / Core
+ Phoenix
+ Voidrays
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You don't actually NEED to use corruption to win, or make changelings to win lol. Protoss actually needs to activate, lift, storm, guardian shield, forcefield, time warp etc so no.
TruthHurts
post Apr 14 2013, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(slimyboy @ Apr 14 2013, 02:02 PM)
You don't actually NEED to use corruption to win, or make changelings to win lol. Protoss actually needs to activate, lift, storm, guardian shield, forcefield, time warp etc so no.
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I make use of any ability available.Changelings included.
slimyboy
post Apr 14 2013, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(TruthHurts @ Apr 14 2013, 11:04 AM)
Because Zerg player have to work hard keeping awareness at all time high cause they have to micro every single casting ability plus their units are paper weak while Protoss are solid hard with high damage and Terren just macro since they have that automatic options available to them.
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Your point was this.

So no, during battle you DON'T use injects (except for macro of course), you don't cast changelings. While protoss actually need to use ALL their casting abilities or they lose. And Zergs don't make infestors now. Other than microing a potential flank and A-moving their army, you only use abducts.

This post has been edited by slimyboy: Apr 14 2013, 02:37 PM
TruthHurts
post Apr 14 2013, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(slimyboy @ Apr 14 2013, 02:33 PM)
Your point was this.

So no, during battle you DON'T use injects (except for macro of course), you don't cast changelings. While protoss actually need to use ALL their casting abilities or they lose. And Zergs don't make infestors now. Other than microing a potential flank and A-moving their army, you only use abducts.
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Its all the game from start to finish. Since when I focus on just battle only ? Read properly laaaaaaaaaa !!!
Who want to use changeling at the wrong time anyway ... Saw a lot of mistake people make using Zerg vs Protoss.. that is low overseer count.

Zerg do make infestor when required. At least 3 ~ 4 infestors just to charge up and use fungal growth to hold them.


TShazairi
post Apr 15 2013, 03:05 PM

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user posted image

Look at the graph on end of March 2013 for HOTS.

Terran drastically improve after HOTS.

Terran really is OP! tongue.gif

*chart is from aligulac.com taking into account only Pro player games.
shirley_andy
post Apr 15 2013, 04:18 PM

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just curious, since we have gaming gears with programmable buttons, is it allowed to set macro key(1 key performing more than 1 button) when playing the game?

I tried googling around and can't find any absolute answer, some says yes in ladder but no in tourney, some say no in all games, etc.

just wanna seek clarification as still new to the game. thanks
EnTaroAdun23
post Apr 15 2013, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(shirley_andy @ Apr 15 2013, 04:18 PM)
just curious, since we have gaming gears with programmable buttons, is it allowed to set macro key(1 key performing more than 1 button) when playing the game?

I tried googling around and can't find any absolute answer, some says yes in ladder but no in tourney, some say no in all games, etc.

just wanna seek clarification as still new to the game. thanks
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www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146760

If you wanna waste a copy of WoL/HotS to test it out, be my guest.
TShazairi
post Apr 15 2013, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Apr 10 2013, 07:21 PM)
I still stand by my comment that nothing has to be changed in HotS. 

I'm very happy that the skill ceiling has been raised by A LOT.  Gone are the days when Gold players could beat Masters (yep, the happiest moment in my SC2 life).

Let me leave a quote from a random Redditor who commented on Artosis' Tumblr post.  It was a long post, but the last paragraph said it all:

"Basically the basis of strategy comes down to 2 things: Your understanding and your execution.  Understanding is limited by your execution.  Execution is limited by your understanding.  HotS has increased the complexity of the game and the increased burden and decisions have made the game generally more rewarding for those players (who) have a higher understanding and execution".

Edit: My apologies, the quote wasn't from Artosis, but from a random Redditor who commented on Artosis' Tumblr post.

Here's Artosis post regarding skill ceiling:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Yes you may be correct. Did you remember when they first released WOL?
They nerfed and buffed many units ever since. From barracks build time, gateway build times, from queen range and many more. And why did they do that? Simple, 'balance'. On the study this balance, they have to take on the statistics. And as HOTS is just a newborn baby, I don't think it's well balanced yet. There are many possibility that is yet to explore.

EnTaroAdun23
post Apr 15 2013, 07:55 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Apr 15 2013, 05:10 PM)
And as HOTS is just a newborn baby, I don't think it's well balanced yet. There are many possibility that is yet to explore.
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Exactly! Why balance something that is yet to be explored? Why balance the game based on possibility? You simply can't do that. Explore! Make the possibility reality first, THEN you balance.

Yes I remember WoL completely. Blizz made kneejerk "balance fixes" that were balanced around horribly small maps (think Xel'naga Caverns).

I note you think the game isn't well balanced. That's your personal opinion. Wanna know my opinion? Increase Siege Tank range. Remove Mothership Core and Mothership. Remove Warp Gate Tech. Buff gateway units. Make Psi Storm standard with all HTs. Increase supply cap to 300. Everything else as is. BUT! Blizz won't release a balance patch based on your opinion or my opinion alone.

You may ask, "what about the opinions of GMs and the pros?". You wanna know why Blizz hasn't released a patch yet? It's not because Blizz doesn't care about their players. They just don't want history to repeat itself and roll out kneejerk reactions/patches.

Blizz will not nerf widow mines. Not yet at least. I've read the statistics too. Master Terrans winning against Master Zergs 59% of the time if they use any amount of widow mines. It may be an anomaly but I don't think it's something for Blizzard to panic about. Why? Because there is this reality that ST_Life beat Flash (and his widow mines) in 6 games to win MLG Dallas. If he can do it, why can't we?

Don't blame the game because of your opinion that it isn't balanced or because your APM doesn't allow you to do amazing stuff like the pros. It's not the game's fault that you have hit your skill cap. Level up. Learn something new. Watch Day9. Practice against better players.

Again:

"Basically the basis of strategy comes down to 2 things: Your understanding and your execution. Understanding is limited by your execution. Execution is limited by your understanding. HotS has increased the complexity of the game and the increased burden and decisions have made the game generally more rewarding for those players (who) have a higher understanding and execution".

There's more to the game than just balance whining.

Just my 2 cents.
ICE_Mk.1.0
post Apr 15 2013, 08:33 PM

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hmm.. so many opinion on the balance issue. But why not start a thread on discussing on how to and what to do for every match up for TVZ,PVZ, ZVT and also ladder map. something like Rule of engagement MLG VOD. Maybe we can share out and solve any problem we facing in our match up

TShazairi
post Apr 15 2013, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(EnTaroAdun23 @ Apr 15 2013, 07:55 PM)
Exactly!  Why balance something that is yet to be explored?  Why balance the game based on possibility?  You simply can't do that.  Explore! Make the possibility reality first, THEN you balance.

Yes I remember WoL completely.  Blizz made kneejerk "balance fixes" that were balanced around horribly small maps (think Xel'naga Caverns). 

I note you think the game isn't well balanced.  That's your personal opinion.  Wanna know my opinion?  Increase Siege Tank range.  Remove Mothership Core and Mothership.  Remove Warp Gate Tech.  Buff gateway units.  Make Psi Storm standard with all HTs.  Increase supply cap to 300.  Everything else as is.  BUT! Blizz won't release a balance patch based on your opinion or my opinion alone. 

You may ask, "what about the opinions of GMs and the pros?".  You wanna know why Blizz hasn't released a patch yet?  It's not because Blizz doesn't care about their players.  They just don't want history to repeat itself and roll out kneejerk reactions/patches.

Blizz will not nerf widow mines.  Not yet at least.  I've read the statistics too. Master Terrans winning against Master Zergs 59% of the time if they use any amount of widow mines.  It may be an anomaly but I don't think it's something for Blizzard to panic about.  Why? Because there is this reality that ST_Life beat Flash (and his widow mines) in 6 games to win MLG Dallas.  If he can do it, why can't we?

Don't blame the game because of your opinion that it isn't balanced or because your APM doesn't allow you to do amazing stuff like the pros.  It's not the game's fault that you have hit your skill cap.  Level up.  Learn something new.  Watch Day9.  Practice against better players. 

Again:

"Basically the basis of strategy comes down to 2 things: Your understanding and your execution.  Understanding is limited by your execution.  Execution is limited by your understanding.  HotS has increased the complexity of the game and the increased burden and decisions have made the game generally more rewarding for those players (who) have a higher understanding and execution".

There's more to the game than just balance whining.

Just my 2 cents.
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Yes, that's what this thread is all about. Opinions.
Master Terrans winning against Master Zergs 59% of the time when they use widow mines --> That's a statistic fact.
ST_Life beat Flash (and his widow mines) in 6 games to win MLG Dallas --> That's a rare occasion. Yes, ST_Life can produce such feat beating Flash, but can you just judge the game based on just 1 BO6 (or more) from 2 Pro players? That's why they have statistic department. They gather statistic from thousands of matches. But yes, maybe in the future Zerg will learn to adapt and hopefully it can be a game changer.

The fact is no matter how well balanced you think the game is, Blizzard will not listen to you neither cause sooner or later, there will be a balancing patch. You know that and we all know that. When we play football, we whine or cry to the ref for making stupid decisions, yet they are human who can't avoid making mistakes. Same as the people from Blizzard. We whine on the balance even though you know they will not hear you. We whine to the ref while watching our favorite team losing but will the ref hear your voice distance away. That's the beauty of SC2. You play, involve, emotions.. damn it feels so good... notworthy.gif
SiewKaiz
post Apr 20 2013, 09:00 PM

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swarm host definitely need nerf compare to widow mine~
TShazairi
post Apr 21 2013, 01:34 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Apr 20 2013, 09:00 PM)
swarm host definitely need nerf compare to widow mine~
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just remove the unit. I don't care coz I'm not using it.. tongue.gif
SiewKaiz
post Apr 21 2013, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Apr 21 2013, 01:34 AM)
just remove the unit. I don't care coz I'm not using it.. tongue.gif
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good idea~
TShazairi
post Apr 21 2013, 02:06 PM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Apr 21 2013, 01:22 PM)
good idea~
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to be fair, remove widow mine too tongue.gif
SiewKaiz
post Apr 21 2013, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Apr 21 2013, 02:06 PM)
to be fair, remove widow mine too tongue.gif
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hav no problem for that too
but widow mine fine as it is now
Quazacolt
post Apr 22 2013, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Apr 14 2013, 10:57 AM)
n yet zerg win tournament's~
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LOL thumbup.gif rclxms.gif
Quazacolt
post Apr 22 2013, 11:02 AM

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QUOTE(hazairi @ Apr 15 2013, 03:05 PM)

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HAHAHAHA PROTOSS
Quazacolt
post Apr 22 2013, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(SiewKaiz @ Apr 21 2013, 02:34 PM)
hav no problem for that too
but widow mine fine as it is now
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protoss is suffering as it is especially players like me who absolutely loathes casters

+35 dmg to shields, what a TIL moment when my expensive protoss shit were dying like paper

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