le butthead, usually the spoke tension specified in wheel manuals, is for spoke tension with tyre off or tyre on (with full pressure)?

usually bare rim as that is a more consistent reading as they can't tell for sure how each pressure affects the spoke tension

with the tyres mounted and inflated, the spoke tension drops...

which is a reason i read somewhere that easton ships their rear wheels out of dish so that it lines up correcrtly with tires inflated...

ic.. thanks boss.

BUT, for rear wheel, we have to true it with tyre on right? because we need it to be centered with tyre on, not off. right?

what i mean is, we can true the front wheel with tyre off. but for rear wheel, we have to do it with tyre on. correct boss?

This post has been edited by miaopurr: Mar 13 2013, 11:15 PM

not really la... the dish won't really run that far off unless you are that anal about it...

that is the whole reason our calipers have a centering adjustment screw ma...

getting even spoke tension is more crucial to me in maintaining a reliable wheel

for the front wheel, i've set the spoke tensions within allowed range. but once i put the tyre on and pump to full pressure, the tensions drop below minimum limit. so... is this acceptable?

for the rear spokes, mavic has set the tension at 165kgf, without tyre on. but according to the manual, rear spoke max limit is only 140kgf.

my jedi sense is tingling....

nevermind. got the answer here finally http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/w...ion-measurement

for the rear wheel, i've reduced the spoke tension a bit because since the tension is too high, some of the left spoke nipples can't be turned any further, because they've been tightened to the max to compensate the opposite side (drive side) spoke tension.

btw, my front spokes got very uneven spoke tension. really dunno why, coz i manage to true it down to 0.05mm off laterally, and 1mm off hoop. imperfect rim maybe?

This post has been edited by miaopurr: Mar 14 2013, 01:03 AM

that is sweeeeet

wah... tldr, the page looks like a bottomless pit from the phone...

logically, no one trues a wheel with tires on let alone inflated simply because mtb tires are too fat for the caliper gauges to clamp onto the brake track

furthermore, compensating for tension drop on an inflated rim increases the risk of over tensioning the spoke within manufacturer limits, no one does that as standard practice has always been to build wheels sans tire...

you've ran out of threads on the spoke for the nipple to turn on? that's bad... it is either a case of over tensioning the wheel as the spoke lengths usually is calculated to take up the threads just enough with allocation to unwind and wind up further... that or your spoke has fatigued and elongated...once you hear pinging sounds when you turn the nipples, it's a bad sign that you are starting to run out of threads or the threads are too dry

i would not bother with little variation, it's not a new wheel anyway right... it won't be arrow straight and getting equal tension is not as easy as just twisting the nipples around... there are factors like spoke elbow seating positions on j-bend spokes that can also play havoc with the lateral true of the wheel and ultimately the tension of the spokes itself which is why they designed straight pull spokes...

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 14 2013, 04:26 AM

it's my ksyrium wheel. mavic overtension their wheels maybe?

my ksyrium not so new la, but not old either. maybe 5000km. i need to check the tensions again and see how much they vary. some spokes as low as 100kgf, and some spokes as high as 130kgf. is that little or big variation?

how did you came by that figure? 100 / 130kgf isn't that on the high side? i remember Sapim fatigue tests their spoke to that tension as well which means it is their limit...

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic/uk/so...Replacement.pdf

the document not sure if it was for your more recent ksyrium elite says



i don't think it is too big... but will lowering the spoke tension on all spokes reduces the variation? just afraid your aluminum nipples might start cracking after some abuse...

i got the figures from techmavic website. i downloaded the complete 2011 manual. in it there's a complete specification for all models. it says front spoke tension 110-130kgf.

http://www.tech-mavic.com/tech-mavic/techn...themes/2_15.pdf

page 19

This post has been edited by miaopurr: Mar 14 2013, 10:27 AM

then, i think better follow their specs....

i don't think you should worry much about the spoke tension.. as i said, don't be anal about it... as soon as you start messing with your wheel... it is bound to be messed up...

it'll need experience in good wheel building skills to get it back correctly once it is already messed up... and having to re-adjust it once too often is actually going to wear it out much faster than you not touching it...

persistence in this case is not going to be rewarding because you are might be over stressing some parts and in particularly, i worry the aluminum nipples and spoke holes might take a heavy punishment as you keep truing it...in other words, don't be itchy hand and mess with the wheel unless it is massively out of true or 1 or 2 spoke is so loose that you can wiggle it with a light touch...

i usually don't touch the front wheel because it almost never goes out of true...rear wheel is harder to guarantee because of the torsional loads it has to go through...

i believe even machine trued wheels from the manufacturers also will have un-even tensions... they just have a smaller tolerance than you and my patience in truing it..

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 14 2013, 11:03 AM

actually i almost had a stupid crash once. i was going really slow, n then i went into the wrong road. so i quickly steered and that caused me to almost went over the handlebar. the bike almost toppled over, so my weight and the bike weight pushed down laterally on the front wheel. after that, it went haywire.

if you steer the wheel in the wrong force vector at speed... the rims and spokes would not be able to take the load and crumple or fold up...even though it is not a carbon rim...


there is women drivers, and there is women riders

happens a lot on those MTB downhill races where they botched up the landings...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hd4wuvEKsG4/TBhP...s1600/Crash.bmp

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 14 2013, 11:50 AM

nevermind. i'll live with the uneven spoke tensions. as long as it's true and the hoop isn't too bad

yeah.. better than start wrecking a wheel that hasn't gone pass 5000 kilos...

none of my wheels have even spoke tension..trust no one can do it perfectly..except maybe Rich Sawiris and his team's special tools

i just make sure there is no really loose spoke until you can just wiggle it freely without even trying to grab neighboring spokes and squeeze it...

loose spokes will just start getting freeplay on the elbow and then fatigue that part and eventually break it off... i believe the same happens to straight pull / pin head type as the head will also break if there is much play in it...

the only thing i have been thinking of for a while is the fulcrum R1 and R0 spokes where the spoke head is damn huge and gets lodge in what seems like a deadlock that won't allow it to move...

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 14 2013, 11:54 AM

When i built my own wheels there was no gauging equipment for spoke tension. As long the spoke is not loose when i pinch 2 spokes together and it runs true, all's good. This is on dt swiss conventional spokes.

DT Champion... straight gauge and tough as hell...

i wrecked my mavic open pro crashing it into a pothole and the spokes did not even break...

you just trued your wheel by using your brakes as guides?? at least got the truing machine right?

miao... think this suits your wheel building motto...

new TDF jersey... not sexy at all...



catered for riders with small man boobs...and what is with that stupid collar??? trying to make them gentleman or wat... supposedly more aero coming from a collar if you believe it...

This post has been edited by butthead: Mar 14 2013, 12:06 PM

thanks boss. really made my day