I'd like to share this discussion I found on the net. Don't get me wrong, I'm not implying which one is better as I have both alu and carbon bike (honestly I can't feel much differences between them). Some of the replies had a good and valid points. Perhaps it can help those beginners out there who are seeking their first road bike and unsure between alu or carbon frame.










ahh there's many more in that discussion..you can read more here:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/bikes-fra...-do-276830.html

My take? Whatever it is, just get the first roadbike new. Be it alu or carbon or bamboo or whatever.

and yet, you are giving away free stuff ruining my biznes...

dafug kind of balls have u?

give me your email address. i'll send you the flyer. it's 350, not 300. sorry.

but you need to have a bike first, i think.

u need to go back to the engineering aspect la. alu has definite fatigue lifespan. not with carbon. carbon has no fatigue life. coz fatigue can be calculated only on metal material. but that doesn't mean carbon is better. carbon quality depends on who manufactures them and the grade of carbon cloth and resin, etc. that argument about aluminum engine and aircraft is complete BS. the kind of loads applied onto a bicycle frame and onto aircraft and engine block are completely different. even the purpose also different.

promo for our shop la. but nobody interested. malaysians rich i guess, don't want free stuff.

the rumors that came out most recently are that SRAM is to maintain a Red and Force 10 speed group and the Red and Force 22 as a separate lineup. Hence the price.

It sounds counter intuitive since the conversion of the SRAM 22 makes it quite close or higher than DA 9000.

Let's see how it goes in a couple more months.

Frame fitting is what you are looking for...frame fitting is much cheaper as they depend on a rig that has infinite adjustments that finds a frame suitable for your body while Bike fit is more to adjusting your body position on the bike to make it a more efficient posture.

Last time, bike boutique used to have that rig but they closed down already. KSH TTDI also has a simillar rig, but not sure if they only do it for customers who buy bikes from them or how it works.

Bike fitting is more expensive as it involves a lot more work to understand the needs of the person being fitted and it is normally not recommended on newbies since they don't have a set of criteria to look for during the fit.

Worry about those things later. Your height should be centered around compact models of around 47 & 49CM. You can give 50CM a try as well but i tend to think that would be a little too big. Best is to hop on the bike to get a feel of it and before that if possible, borrow a friends road bike for a semi longish ride to get a feel of it. So, you know what to look for when comes your actual purchase.

I let you know if i am interested means you pay for me???

on another note...Mirinda is bad for health... sugar water causes diabetes...

call rodalink and ask what is the price with the intention that you want to buy one... then sell it off for 20% less than they do on bicyclebuysell.com

else, you can also look for it on bicyclebuysell.com

it help you position yourself better on the bike... some to get a more efficient posture for Triathletes or some to get rid of some aches here and there....as i say... you have to know what you want first because the first thing to a good fit session is always an interview with the person being fitted to understand their problems on the bike and what they want to achieve...

i do agree with you on the first bike... if you have money like our taiko here... get a carbon.. else stick with a cheap bike as i always refer to the first bike as an experimental bike where you find your feet and learn things about the bike and develop your set of criteria for a perfect bike for yourself... not always the greatest is the best... if you don't feel right sitting on a great bike, you don't feel the best...

secondly, the argument would be quite complicated without taking into account on entry level and high end ones from both ends of the frame material... of course, some high end aluminum frames might be as good as entry or even mid range carbon hence not feeling much difference (not saying your mirinda sucks lar, but you understand what you get for RM7k right)

but with carbon, you get better lifespan off the frame (with the exception of crash damages), lighter weight, better stiffness, vertical compliance if designed properly...the list is endless.. all that comes with none other the less, a hefty price....with new development in carbon layup schedules, pre-preg carbon cloth or custom weaved carbon tubes like Time or BMC, top secret epoxy resins, internal ribbing, again top secret carbon curing time and shit like that.. they will continue babbling bullshit into your ears until the nasa composites expert loses their jobs...

carbon in bicycle building is still way off from industries like aerospace and formula 1... hence, which is why specialize went to mclaren to allow them to analyze their carbon layups with their FEA softwares and Cervelo has Don Guichard to head their technologies and development department...

even the carbon cloth that is used in bicycle industries is still some way off the ones used in aerospace and formula 1... those are closely guarded secrets still and it is most prolly to costly to use for production...

aluminum would be the defacto standard in cheap bikes as it is cheap and workmanship is lesser...and a more reliable material to build bikes around despite some less interesting characteristics...if not, our cars would all be made from carbon by now...

ei....no side income... need i remind you of company policies?

the use of aluminum in cars like engine blocks and radiators are different... those components are not subjected to torsional stresses... if they put it into areas like suspension linkages and arms, then those might start to show signs of fatigue as compared to conventional heavier steel parts...

there is also a higher chance that we feel fatigue in parts like our frames because it is responsible for transferring our power output and more importantly, power that we generate...we don't feel the effects of power being sapped from the car because we are only stepping on the gas pedal and the relation and linkage from the pedal to how well power is being transferred is not there as compared to the bike...

they are afraid that you have smelly armpits...

This post has been edited by butthead: Apr 21 2013, 12:45 PM

Aah..yeah afteral Carbon is better. Seems like the stiffness and fatigue is the main factor for carbon to win.

So now im in dilemma. Should i sell my Merida? There's an interested buyer already. Or should i keep it and upgrade it bit by bit? My allez is way lighter than my Merida now..

Sell or not????

do you have a complete bike or just a frame?

sell it, you can't ride 2 bikes at once...the golden question to ask yourself is, are you riding the merida more or the spez more nowadays... you are bound to leave one out... and since you are looking to buy another one.. why not sell it now when it still has a price?

of cos la it'll go into the shop's cash register

sell. coz u r gonna sell it anyway, right? remember ur sl5 plan?

hey guys, since i won't be able to get the trek so soon. I was wondering if any other brands besides merida and giant worth mentioning.

like i said the polygon one has quite an amazing price for the gears but i have no idea how to see the other components.

Sold! To a new owner who will take care of my Merida in a much better way..tsk tsk

there is others... but there isn't much of a point telling you things you can't acquire from afar... almost all manufacturers have budget bikes with the exception of manufacturers like look and time...

the thing is, if you set the polygon as the base for a value for money bike... i can tell you upfront now that there is no point is looking elsewhere because there will be no bike that can topple the RM3.6k price of a polygon C6.0

you are referring to this right?
http://www.polygonbikes.com/index.php?pgid...eid=483&par=390

this is 3.8 or 3.9 from what i saw at rodalink
http://www.polygonbikes.com/index.php?pgid...keid=528&par=11

you can always look for some cheaper bikes from scott, jamis, fuji, khs if it is available at your place... i believe EMC, boardman also has bikes down to those level but they are in KL and i don't think they are distributed to penang as far as i know....

aster @ velocipede works (in KL) lso has some very interesting models..... some SRAM Rival equipped bike for RM4.1k on the price tag... not sure how much they can discount...

they might cut some corners here and there to make it compete at the same price bracket as the cheaper brands...

the logic here will be very simple,
1) cheaper brand, compensated by better componentry
2) better brand, cut corners on components to make it compete with cheaper brands of same price

2 steps closer to sl5....

Questions from a noob!

Looking to improve my power and endurance. Probably I need to understands some basic science on training, like pushing my threshold, or not over-doing it.
How does a heart rate monitor like polar watch helps? Thanks!

This post has been edited by Mac Wai: Apr 22 2013, 12:42 PM

HRM is a complicated thing... what happens is that with a HRM, you get to monitor your heart rate against your level of exertion (perceived)..

usually HRM is used to segregate into 4 zones to help tell you what level of exertion you are at...and also Max HR to indicate that you are going to burn yourself out if you exceed that point of threshold...or in other words, a gauge... a tachometer for your body..

generally it is divided into 4 zones... mind the acronyms as many people call it many other terms
1) Recovery zone - a zone you fall into when you are trying to recover from over taxing your body

2) Aerobic zone - when your heart rate starts to rise from a repetitive strenuous motion and within the limits of your bodies oxygen delivery systems.

3) Anaerobic zone (Anaerobic Threshold / AT) - is when your heart is beginning to struggle with supplying sufficient fuel to your muscles and your muscles start generating lactic acid that gives you that muscle burn feeling

4) Lactate Threshold / LT = is where you are at the limit of your capabilities and anything over this zone will cause you to overcook it, recovery will be hard once you get into or past this zone



you can read more on the net and how to find out your zones...usually it's a percentage of your max HR...it is advisable to train in the AT zone to improve your limits... LT zone is usually not sustainable by us as it is not easy to stay in those zones for long periods of time... pros would generally be capable of 30mins or more in LT like the final ascend of the day and shitz li tat...

that being said however is not reliable as HR fluctuates depending on your body.. if you feel unwell, your HR might be high even though you are riding at steady slow paces...and you feel like you are on the limit because it is the perceived level of exertion...more on this later on...

on the other hand, it can be used for simple comparison purposes...let's say you ride the same route when you started off cycling and after 6-9 months of training... at the begining of your cycling, riding at 80-90% intensity will put you into say maybe 85-90% of your max HR while 6-9 months down the road after strict training, you will see the same intensity drop your heart rate by 2-5% of your max HR... that is generally what they do for comparison...

back on the level of exertion...which is what many people consider not a good matrix for gauging performance because it is what you feel and it is not a concrete matrix to plot a performance chart from... so, this is where power meter comes in to help tell you the amount of power you generate versus how hard your heart is working to get oxygen delivery to your muscles... this all in all is another story for another day...very complex as i don't understand it as much as well...

here is a nicely written article by bikeradar on HRM use
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/h...cyclists-28838/

and to further complicate things
http://www.markallenonline.com/maoArticles.aspx?AID=9
http://www.shapefit.com/target-heart-rate-...d-exertion.html

confusing ain't it? in simple... jus treat it as buying a 6" rev counter for your car lar...whether it tells you anything important or not is not an issue



This post has been edited by butthead: Apr 22 2013, 01:06 PM

Thank you Butthead, I am ready to take the plunge, so what are the good options available in the market? The Watch types or those with a strap clinging on to the chest type. Please be more specific about the product or have Miao, your head Honcho to lay the poison!

For the past 1 year i use HR for my training..it's constantly unreliable if you want to measure your performance.

Seriously, but riding a bike without knowong your speed, distance, and HR is totally a no-no for me.

I have take off the cadence unit from my bike to shave off the weight and i found myself not needing it at all.

Me too, I like to know how am I doing during rides and also what's going on inside me without guessing. More on keeping track of my own progress.

ehrrr...OK...

1) budget?
2) need GPS?

Getting the garmin forerunner, timex, or polar watch type ones is good for dual usage. Running and cycling, but there are pros and cons with those which miao can rantexplain to you about.

Else, i don't like new units like garmin edge because of having to constantly charge it. A pain for me as i have alzheimers and will forget constantly that i need to charge the darn thing.

I am more of a traditional computer unit kind of guy.

I don't think there is much choices from cateye nowadays that will be cheap. But from sigma sport you have the

1) Sigma BC1909 for around RM320
http://www.sigmasport.com/en/produkte/bike...bc1909/?flash=1
2) Sigma BC2209 for around RM420
http://www.sigmasport.com/en/produkte/bike...ireless/bc2209/
3) Sigma Rox series for over RM650
http://www.sigmasport.com/en/produkte/bike...ireless/rox_81/

or you can have the GPS enabled bike computers like Garmin Edge 500 (RM900+), 800 (color screen) (RM1.3 or RM1.4k can't remember) or the new 510 and 810 (both above RM1.3k i believe) which has color on both and Garmin Partner.

then, time to handover to miao to present his rantings recommendations on polar units...

with HR monitoring, it only make sense if you are putting intensive efforts into it... i mean you can vary to understand how it looks from an 80 to 90 to 100% effort. But riding under your limit is what makes no sense from the data it spits out.

well, hate to break it to you... but after a while.. the novelty wears off and you don't give a flying f@k about it anymore...

This post has been edited by butthead: Apr 22 2013, 03:36 PM

The thing i would want to know can the geometry of a bike for example trek vs polygon really make a difference to justify the lower gear set and the higher price point.

and what are the differences between a tiagra and a 105?