lack of bottom end but very good high end horsepower....

also usually reserved for engine with more HP figures then torque....

That is why it is called a torqueless wonder.. esp when max torque is right next to max power.. which is right next to the redline.

---

Added on December 20, 2012, 12:29 amDo you actually know anything about vtec? It has no usable torque. By the time the usable torque aka your 'pull' feeling comes in, it is already almost redline and you have to change gear. That is why vtec engines gets the torqueless wonder title.

---

Added on December 20, 2012, 12:32 amThat title started all the way from the B16 and B18 days.. it's a great engine.... but it feels like one huge turbo lag while waiting for the torque to come in.,. aka the engine also gets another nickname.. the Vtec-Lag.. but torqueless wonder still sounds the best.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 20 2012, 12:32 AM

FD2R max torque is around 6000rpm while max power around 8500 and redline is 9000rpm, so still got around 3000rpm in between.

Yes.. at only a 215nm and will begin to drop as you trying to hit max power before shifting. And due to the close ratio gearbox, you practically shift straight into your max torque and then start losing torque again.. rinse and repeat.. and hence.. still torqueless wonder.

The 3000 rpm in between will see you having less than 200nm of torque.

So would the Honda NSX engine still be considered a torqueless wonder? I assume it should also be the case if it also has a close ratio gearbox.

Honda C32B.
206kW at 7300 rpm and 304Nm at 5300 rpm.

Just curious.

How can it be torqueless when it has 304nm of torque? Do you all actually understand why we call it a torqueless wonder? You might not unless you have driven one and when i say drive, I don't mean test drive the car on a straight road trying to do the century dash. The car works great if you are trying to gun the fastest quarter mile or century dash as you don't feel the lack of torque. Drive it like an everyday car in urban traffic or drive it up Genting and you will understand why we call it the torqueless wonder.

It is less apparent in the FD2R and the term originally coined for the B16s and B18s where the slightly less displacement made it a handicap in the torque curve aka usable torque regions.

The C32B engine is 3.2 liters and large displacement means large amount of torque. You don't call that torqueless wonder. A large displacement engine also means a lot of usable torque at lower RPM. That is the opposite of the smaller engine capacity of the other Type Rs.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 20 2012, 08:50 AM

putra so light

nice name

haha....i know the feeling, its like potong stim moment unless drag racing after toll plaza

Not really, just for the B series Type-R mostly.
C32B, FB20, K20A got bigger cc so naturally also higher torque.
L series engines are designed to bring all the torque in during pickup, e.g. L15A for the Jazz & City has 128 N·m (94 lb·ft) @ 2700 rpm

Understood. I get the picture now, there is very little usable bottom end torque.

The family actually did own a B16 EH9 sedan some 17 odd years ago, and from what I remember driving it, it had a fantastic rev and nice roar on the highway. I remember driving it along federal highway midnight, what a rush!

i think lotus 907 was the original torqueless wonder

I just like the vtec gradual pull for the natural feeling & cornering rather than FI kick. Vtec is more than enough zoom zoom in the city for me & I prefer to rev, makes the driving less boring than kick coming in so early around 2000 likdat...I not hardcore enough to want so much torque in the city & not enough skill for so much torque.



This post has been edited by wayfeel: Dec 20 2012, 11:14 PM

maybe you can go try peugeot 1.6 turbo or vw 1.4tsi / 2.0gti.

you might like it

I don't have to try. I know I will like them

it's just that...I've i$$ue, you know what I mean

the 1.4tsi & 2l gti is about 130k & 220k OTR respectively if I'm not mistaken. What d point of trying but can't own?

Vtec cars r way ahead cheaper not to mention lower maintenance though provide decent performance and fun ,performance value over cost, nonetheless not thrilling as turbo does, u know u cant have everything so life's is full of compromises

Dude.. do you think we turbo drivers drive at 2000rpm while we are zoom zoom zooming around the city? No, we drive like the VTEC drivers do, rpm to the redline across the gears. We don't drive at 2000 rpm to feel the kick.. we drive at 6000-7000 rpm to feel the kick too. What I'm saying is that we have the best of both worlds where you can have a lazy drive all the way up Genting on 1 gear or zoom around urban traffic without the need to shift gears and when the time comes to put the pedal to the metal, we still have the oomph to do it.

We can choose a boring drive or a vtec drive whenever we want. Don't think that we are boring drivers who do not shift gear. BTW, the VTEC Gradual pull you mention.. is like saying the grapes are sour but I like it.. you know what I mean? VTEC drivers have a harder time on the corners.. and as much as I hate to use Initial D for any references, there is one point in the series they got right... the part about VTEC running out of RPM on long corners. If you don't shift gear, you will hit redline mid corner and if you do shift gears, you lose time and power. It is not so easy to drive a VTEC fast as some people think.

For turbo cars, many also not yet spooling up until you hit 3500rpm. Some using big turbos to achieve very high max power actually becomes much slower in low-mid rpm since the boost only comes effective on higher rpm. So some turbos also like VTEC but with much more kick.

sounds like...."my wife is ugly but doesn't matter all i care is i can have sex for free"

i tried the pug 1.6t, can't compare to even the 1.4tsi

.....and doing it wrongly will just over power and understeer into the wall

thats why we have VGT, twin turbo and twincharger technology for

When you say many, were you just referring to Japanese turbos.. 10 years ago? Comparing the guys who mod big turbo is also like those guys modding their vtec for high power to the point where their max torque, hp and redline falls within 1000rpm zone. Turbos nowadays are more subtle and no more big fat laggy turbos pre year 2000 days.

We can't run away from turbo-lag and spooling times but our turbo-lag is definitely way shorter than VTEC lag... I have nothing against the vtec boys. Had lots of fun with them last time but I just want to make the point that it is not as easy to drive as most people think. It is also not that fun to drive. Blasting down a straight road demon shifting every gear inside VTEC zone is fun. Driving it daily outside of vtec is no that fun.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 21 2012, 12:49 PM

when comes to this... sleepwalker is sifu
and i miss my 4g93t, personally i dont think it has very bad lag.. considering everything is factory setup.
overtake car by just flooring the accelerator without shifting

my friends satria with 4g93t got beaten pretty bad by a passat 1.8 at kesas, sprint start after both paid toll.
thats why now i bring him to the darkside liao, he no more thinking manual turbo 2 doors.....4 door dsg turbo's can be fun and do family duties

want a torqy NA car have a drive in an L series engine jazz/city....its damn fun to have max torque below 2000rpm

I miss my 4G93T too but since I sold it to my mech, I still get to see it every time I visit my mech. However, I can say that I don't miss the torque steer and scrubbed front wheels.

---

Added on December 21, 2012, 2:47 pmLike VTECs, it's not easy to drive the 4G93T with all the power going to the front wheels. Most can't even beat 1.8NA putras when they spin their front wheels on first, second and third gears. With the Passat's 0-100km/h, a 4G93T should be more than 1-2 seconds faster on the century dash provided you get the power down properly. Anybody who can't get the 4G93T to the century dash in under 7 seconds should practice more launches.

Beaten by a car that does 0-100km/h in 8.5 seconds.. that must have been a bad day for the driver of the 4G93T. A nicely modded NA 1.8 Putra/Wira could have beaten that Passat.

This post has been edited by sleepwalker: Dec 21 2012, 02:48 PM

mother said there would be days like these