Ouch.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 8 2013, 11:06 PM

There are two great steps in the manifestation of God in the New Testament: The first step is seen in Christ, and the second step is seen in the church. Christ is the expression of God, but the church also is an expression of God. This does not mean that the church expresses God more than Christ; rather, the church is an enlarged expression of God. Just as Christ expresses God, the church also expresses God. The principle of expression is the same, but the scope of the expression has been enlarged.

1. The Church Being the Mystery of Christ

In addition to saying that Christ is the mystery of God, the Bible also says that the church is the mystery of Christ (Eph. 3:4-6). Whereas Christ is the only begotten Son of God, the church is the many sons of God as the enlargement of Christ. The only begotten Son of God who has been enlarged is the church composed of the sons of God. In brief, the enlarged Christ is the church. All that is of Christ is in the church. Therefore, the church is the mystery of Christ.

Christ also is a mystery. For two thousand years people have talked and preached concerning Christ everywhere, but no one has seen Christ for nearly two thousand years. Christ is a mystery! Some may say that Christ does not exist, because we cannot see Him; however, this is not logical. There are many invisible things that exist. Electricity is one of them. We cannot see electricity, but we can see manifestations of electricity, such as light and heat. In the same way, Christians and the church are expressions of Christ. For nearly two thousand years no one has seen Christ, but people have seen the church. The mystery of Christ, the intricate matters of Christ, the story of Christ, is seen through the church. If we want to know Christ, we must look at the church. The church is the mystery of Christ and the expression of Christ, just as Christ is the mystery of God and the expression of God. Just as all that is of God is in Christ, all that is of Christ is in the church. For nearly four thousand years no one had ever seen God, but Christ revealed Him. In like manner, for nearly two thousand years no one has seen Christ, but the church has revealed Him. First Corinthians 14 says that whenever we meet together and people come among us, they can declare, “Indeed God is among you” (vv. 23-25). We have seen this situation often in our meetings. When God is sensed among us, it is Christ who is being sensed among us. Only the church can manifest the mystery of Christ and express the story of Christ.

2. The Church Being the Body of Christ, the Fullness of Christ, the Surplus of Christ

Just as Christ is the expression of God, the church is the expression of Christ. The church is the Body of Christ, the fullness of Christ, the surplus of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23). Christ is so full and so rich that He overflows with a surplus—the church. The church is His Body, His expression. Our body is also our expression. If we were disembodied souls, would people still be able to recognize us? Could they tell us apart? Could they see us? We appear before others through our body. Our body is our manifestation. Sometimes we see someone’s shadow or see someone walking at a distance, but by his manner, we know who is coming. A person’s body is his best manifestation. Similarly, as the Body of Christ, the church is the best manifestation of Christ. Christ expresses Himself in, by, and through the church.

3. The Church Being the Many Sons of God United with God—God in Christ Being the Substance of the Church, and the Church in the Holy Spirit Being the Expression of God, thus the Church Being a Dwelling Place of God

The church is the Body of Christ, and it is also the many sons of God joined to God to be one (Heb. 2:10-11). God in Christ is the substance of the church, and the church in the Holy Spirit is the expression of God. Thus, the church is a dwelling place of God (Eph. 2:20-21).

On the one hand, the church is the Body to Christ, and on the other hand, the church is the dwelling place to God. On the one hand, we are the many members of Christ, and on the other hand, we are the many sons of God. As the many members of Christ, we express Christ; as the many sons of God, we express God. Of course, these two matters—being the many members of Christ and being the many sons of God—are inseparable; they are the two sides of one matter. In regard to expressing Christ, the emphasis is on being the many members of Christ to be His one Body, and in regard to expressing God, the emphasis is on being the many sons of God to be His house. This house is the dwelling place of God, a place where God is expressed. Both a body and a dwelling are places in which one can rest and express himself. Therefore, both as the Body of Christ and as the house of God, the church is the place in which Christ and God can rest and find expression.

4. The Church Composed of the Many Sons of God Entering into Glory for God to Have a Full Expression—the Manifestation of the New Jerusalem

The church, which is composed of the many sons of God (Heb. 2:10), will enter into the glory of God in the future, just as Christ the firstborn Son of God entered into glory. This will be the time of our rapture and transfiguration. When all of God’s sons enter into God’s glory and are completely transformed, God will gain a complete and full expression. This will be the manifestation of the New Jerusalem. At that time, God will be completely in Christ, and Christ will be completely in the New Jerusalem, that is, in the church. Thus, the church will completely express God in Christ. Revelation 21 says that God will be the light shining in the New Jerusalem while Christ will be the lamp of the light (vv. 11, 22-23). Moreover, the New Jerusalem with its surrounding, transparent wall will be like a great transparent lampshade. God as the light dwelling in Christ as the lamp will shine forth through Christ, and Christ in the New Jerusalem will shine forth through the New Jerusalem. Therefore the glory, the splendor, of the New Jerusalem is God who is being expressed. God in Christ is completely mingled with the church as one, and the church in Christ is completely transformed to be like God; at the same time, God in Christ completely shines out of the church and is expressed through the church. This is God’s ultimate goal.

I didn't indicated that. Neither do I see that in the Bible. But as far as to what is correct, God wants us to follow the humility and the obedience of Jesus to God. NOW that is in the Bible.

Nothing whatsoever of Mary. The example of the greek word you gave, whether the emphasize is on, A not B or A and more B, the concentration is still on B. B is the subject of focus here that Jesus is expounding. RCC magnified A as a referral point to B. But Jesus never meant it in that way. RCC is the one who insist it that way. The key word here is "those". Not "She". So that gives it away because if the Bible mentioned Blessed is "She" that hear and obey? Then you would have a point.

So what's the big deal if Jesus praise Mary? He praise other people as well in the Bible as well, does that grant them the same RCC adoration as mary? No Right?



Show me the verse on Bold. BTW I don't think, the ark of the vessel is referring to Mary. Is there any verse in the bible that mentions this in red? Please give me short summary, not long winded ones, thanks.


You're arguing from human point of View. I'm arguing from the scripture point that God is able to bring Jesus into the world from a linage of sinners. It's has happened and it's recorded in the genealogy of Jesus Christ, It's in the write up on the 4 woman debunking the notion that God needs or prefer a Sinless vessel to bring Jesus into the world. Please read it again.


It is not Mary who purify Jesus. You are right, Mary has no such capability. If Mary is not a sinner, she would have not confessed a need for a savior in her song. It would have been redundant for her to sing mentioning that.

It is not food that causes corruption in the blood. Jedi, you do not interpret the Bible, using Man's rationalization, what we understand in the natural.
What God mentioned in Leviticus 17:11; For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life, It is of spiritual essence. The corruption is in the blood man because in it, is the Life which God has imparted. And by the same token, we are clean by the blood of Jesus.

It is God who caused Mary to be impregnated, It is God Himself who sustained Jesus as Holy even at fetus stage.

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Thayers, a greek Scholar define the word overshadow like this,

Tropically, of the Holy Spirit exerting creative energy upon the womb of the virgin Mary and impregnating it (a use of the word which seems to have been drawn from the familiar O. T. idea of a cloud as symbolizing the immediate presence and power of God).

This idea that in order for Jesus to be sinless, Mary had to be sinless does not correspond to any of the scripture when it talks about the blood. Medical Science attested to the truth of the Bible. Not the other way round.



This is where your problem starts. You said you trust in the Church.
Question is, whose Church? My Church is also a Church,


lol. As Pehkay explained it, the Church is not the building, we are the Church, made of Living stones.
If my present Church believes in contradictory doctrine, Should I not at least know it? If your trust is in the Church in this manner, you would have been lost without knowing it.
So, How does one know? You yourself as a body of the Church need to be familiar with the word of God. You need to feed on his word.

It is the Holy Spirit who guides us and teaches us the word of God. Pastors and Leaders are God's tools to convey the message but revelation understanding comes from the Holy Spirit to your inner Man. That is why the dependency for here is on God, not the Church, not the deacon, pastors or whatever earthly priest. But there is unity within the larger body of Christ for confirmation of God's. The Holy Spirit confirms it. It safe guard against your interpretation vs my interpretation. Denominations that broke from RCC today is very much alive, dynamic in the Ministry of God's Kingdom. I don't know if you know that. If our side is very much alive in the sense of God touching our lives with abundance of miracles, don't you think you owe it to yourself to consider that Truth is very much on our side as well?

Honestly so far most of the miracles I see from RCC are items of relics, comparing to the miracles that involves lives of people in none RCC circle. I feel that touched lives are more important than seeing supernatural objects which to me doesn't edify much.

I really hope that u guys can utilize the more. looks a lot better with it

You mean spoiler?

But it would have been good though.

YUP

The Christian Community in lolyat /k/ wishes you Happy Chinese New Year.

God Bless.

Happy Chinese New Year too everybodehhh... :-)

So how's everyone's CNY?

Got many angpow?

next year i have to give double angpow

Aiya Give la.

Your source of provider, Heavenly Father is Rich.

Hahaha... trying..trying to extend my faith oso...

THE CHURCH’S FUNCTION—TO EXPRESS CHRIST AND TO TESTIFY OF CHRIST

We have seen that God’s eternal intention is to express Himself in Christ. Furthermore, the expression of God has been enlarged to be the church. The church has been produced because the only begotten Son of God, who expressed God, has been enlarged to become the many sons of God. Previously, the Son of God was God’s only begotten Son, but now the only begotten Son has become a corporate son. Previously, the expression of God could be seen only in Christ, but now the expression of God has become a corporate expression. This corporate expression of God is the testimony of the church. If we know the expression of God, we will know the testimony of the church, the function of the church.

The function of the church is to express Christ, to testify of Christ. We have repeatedly said that God expresses Himself through Christ by putting Himself into Christ. In the same way, Christ puts Himself into the church to be expressed through the church. Therefore, the function of the church is to be Christ’s expression. When the church expresses Christ, the church testifies of Christ in the universe. Therefore, the function of the church is to be a testimony expressing Christ.

On the evening before His death, the Lord Jesus told the disciples, “When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you..., the Spirit of reality,...He will testify concerning Me; and you testify also” (John 15:26-27). The Lord meant that we should outwardly testify of the things that the Spirit has inwardly revealed to us concerning Him. When the Lord was about to ascend to the heavens after His resurrection, the disciples wanted to discuss several matters with Him, but He told them that these matters were of no concern to them. Instead, they were told to wait for the Holy Spirit to come upon them. The Holy Spirit would come to testify concerning the Lord. The Lord said, “You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and you shall be My witnesses...unto the uttermost part of the earth” (Acts 1:8). We need to understand that this witnessing is carried out not only by preaching Christ in words but even more by people living out Christ. Moreover, the saved ones should live out Christ, not as individuals but as a corporate entity—the Body, which is the church. To live out Christ in this way is to express Christ, to testify of Christ. This is the function of the church concerning Christ.

Hi de1929,

hope you don't mind, I share this with you.

Yeah money is usually a challenge for a lot of people.

Do you know the more effective way to live our Christian life is not to conjure up Faith?

A lot of Christian believe when you have enough faith or produce enough Faith, things happened.
That is wrong teaching.

The Biblical way of Faith is to believe it has passed. Means you have it already in your hands even if you don't see it/or yet to happen.

and Faith comes naturally when you know and you're convinced God Loves you.

The keyword here is to know and to be convinced that God knows your situation.

The focus is on God's love for you. Not the other way round.

Only when you are convinced that God loves you, would give the best for you, Faith comes.


Matthew 6:8 (NIV)
Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

1 John 4:16 (KJV)
And we have known and believed the love that God has for us...

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 14 2013, 04:34 PM

Amen

Faith is knowledge and trust. It has seven characteristics:

Faith is a sheer gift of God, which we receive when we fervently ask for it.

Faith is the supernatural power that is absolutely necessary if we are to attain salvation.

Faith requires the free will and clear understanding of a person when he accepts the divine invitation.

Faith is absolutely certain, because Jesus guarantees it.

Faith is incomplete unless it leads to active love.

Faith grows when we listen more and more carefully to God’s Word and enter a lively exchange with him in prayer.

Faith gives us even now a foretaste of the joy of heaven.

Faith Or Believe?
Many people say that to believe is not enough for them; they want to know. The word “believe”, however, has two completely different meanings.

If a parachutist asks the clerk at the airport, “Is the parachute packed safely?” and the other man answers casually, “Hmm, I believe so”, then that will not be enough for him; he would like to know it for sure.

But if he asked a friend to pack the parachute, then the friend will answer the same question by saying, “Yes, I did it personally. You can trust me!” And to that the parachutist will reply, “Yes, I believe you.” This belief is much more than knowing; it means assurance.

And that is the kind of belief that prompted Abraham to travel to the Promised Land; that is the faith that caused the – MARTYRS to stand fast till death; that is the faith that still today upholds Christians in persecution. A Faith that encompasses the whole person.

Didn't know you see Faith having 7 characters.

Jesus simplify Faith like this.

Mark 10:15 (NIV)
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.

Receiving the Kingdom of God is related to Salvation, and What is the condition for Salvation?

Answer: Faith and Believe in Jesus Christ.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,......

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


It takes Faith to know God and Jesus simplify Faith like this. Simplistic Faith or Child Like Faith.

The innocence of Childlike Believe as according to Mark 10:15.

If you notice in the next same passage, Jesus was administering love

Mark 10:16
And he took the children in his arms, put his hands on them and blessed them.

That is why I linked it this way, Faith comes naturally when you know God loves you.

ha, I never thought of Mark 10:15 as Jesus describing Faith, but Humility.

Children are always obedient and listening. Therefore Jesus requires us to be humble, besides having faith, to enter Kingdom of God. That is always my understanding of the quote.

It springs another problem. This is the exact quote, that Orthodox bless all infants with Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation at one go. And I was discussing with certain protestant denominations who dont believe babies will be saved if they died without baptism. As for us, we believe in Gods mercy because of what Jesus said exactly, here.

For like you said, we should have faith like little child. and they have Faith in Jesus, and they come to Jesus as shown here in the Bible.

Thanks for reminder, that this can be used to explain faith

GOD’S ETERNAL DESIRE—TO EXPRESS HIMSELF IN THE SON

What is God’s desire in eternity? What is the goal of His desire? If we carefully read the entire Bible, we will come to a conclusion: God’s desire, God’s purpose, from eternity to eternity is to express Himself in His Son.

Those who know God all realize that there is something mysterious about God; that is, He is always hidden. God surely exists, but He is invisible. He is invisible, yet He surely exists. This really is a mystery. This is a characteristic of God; He likes to hide Himself.

However, God also likes to manifest Himself. This is even more amazing. The most hidden thing in this meeting hall is electricity, but electricity is also the most manifested thing. The electricity is invisible, but the meeting hall is full of electric light. This is a perfect illustration. The most hidden One in the universe is God, but at the same time, God also is the most manifested One. Although God is invisible, when we observe the phenomena in the universe, we can see proof of God’s existence everywhere.

Here is an amazing thing. In the beginning of the Bible we see only God’s speaking: “He spoke, and it was; / He commanded, and it stood” (Psa. 33:9). God spoke, but He did not manifest Himself. At the end of the Bible, however, a city is manifested; this city is the New Jerusalem. At the end God will not need to speak. God will be the light in the city, His Son will be the lamp, and the city will be His shining forth. God as the light in His Son as the lamp will shine forth through the city. Therefore, the glory of the city is the glory of God, and the shining of the city is the shining of God, just as the shining of the light bulb is the shining of electricity. At that time, since there will be God’s shining, God’s expression, there will not be a need for Him to speak.

This shows us a principle that when there is a need for God’s work, there is more of God’s speaking; and when more of God’s work is manifested, there is more of God’s expression. God’s speaking can be seen in the beginning of Genesis, but not His expression. God’s expression, however, can be seen at the end of Revelation because He has gained a vessel to express Himself. In the beginning, however, God did not have such a vessel. From eternity to eternity the desire of God is to express Himself so that He, as the hidden God, may be completely expressed through a vessel. This vessel fully depends upon His Son. God intends to express Himself in His Son and through His Son.

I. THE MEANING OF BEING THE SON

We need to see that God’s desire is to have sons. God’s work in the universe is a story of gaining many sons. In John 1 and 3 we can see God’s Son, His only begotten Son. But in Romans 8 the only begotten Son has become the firstborn Son. Since Christ is the firstborn Son of God, then there must be more sons than just the Son; there must be other sons. Hebrews 2:10 speaks of God leading many sons into glory. These many sons are a corporate son, a corporate body composed of many sons.

John 12:24 speaks of a grain of wheat which denotes the only begotten Son of God. This grain of wheat was sown into the ground, and it grew to become many grains, that is, many sons. Originally, it was a grain of wheat, which was the only begotten Son, but it becomes many grains, that is, many sons. Originally, there was just the Son; now this Son has become many sons, a corporate body composed of many sons. Therefore, in John 20:17, the Lord said, “My Father and your Father.” Just as He is the Son of God, we also are sons of God. This is God’s intention in the universe.

A. The Son Being the One Who Expresses the Father

In the Bible a son expresses or declares the father. John 1:18 says, “No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.” This shows that the Lord Jesus, as the Son of God, expresses God. All of us, including sisters, are sons of God. Therefore, we all should express God. The son always expresses the father. When we see the son, it is not hard to imagine what the father looks like. In the same way, we express God as sons of God.

B. The Son Being the Image of God

The Son manifests the Father because the Son is the image of the Father. The Chinese refer to a person who does not honor his father as being “non-alike,” that is, a person who is not like his father. This implies that anyone who is not like his father dishonors his father. A man honors his father by being like his father; only a man who is like his father can be considered a dutiful son. A son should look like his father and behave like his father because a son is the expression of the father.

The Son is the image of the Father (Col. 1:15); this is true not only with the only begotten Son but also with the many sons. Romans 8 tells us that God chose us and predestinated us to be conformed to the image of His Son. God did this so that we would express Him with His Son. I hope that God’s children would see the New Testament concept that a son is the expression of the father because a son is the image of the father.

C. The Son Being the Effulgence of God’s Glory and the Impress of His Substance

The Son expresses God not only because He is the image of God but also because He is the effulgence of God’s glory and the impress of His substance (Heb. 1:3). From eternity to eternity God’s desire is to express Himself. God expresses Himself through His nature which is in His Son. This enables His Son to express Him. Originally, His Son was the only begotten Son, but now His Son is identified with many sons, a corporate body composed of sons. He has put His very nature into these sons (2 Pet. 1:4), and these sons have become His expression. When there was merely the only begotten Son, there was not such a thing as the church, but when many sons were produced, the church was also produced. Furthermore, these many sons are not scattered but joined together; they are not individual sons but a corporate son. This corporate son is the church. Therefore, the church is His expression—the effulgence of His glory and the impress of His substance. May the Lord have mercy on us so that we may fully see that God’s eternal purpose is to gain a corporate Body composed of many sons for His expression, which is the church.

Bible passages are multi-linked to each other.

Whenever there are obscure passages, I let Bible passages interpret other Bible passages.

God has hidden his meaning, all within the Bible context. That is why it's important to read through all the books in the Bible at least once.


You can throw back this question to those certain protestant denominations.

What about the dying thief then? He didn't go through baptism but yet Jesus accepted Him on the basis of his Faith at the cross.

Is God inconsistent in his acceptance? No but the passage on the dying thief is the key witnesses and proof that our Salvation is by Faith alone.

I believe all Children goes to Heaven if they died before reaching adult.

Jesus Himself declares it.

Mark 10:14 (NIV)
When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

Luke 18:16 (NIV)
But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.

May sound superficial but I agree with what you said God being merciful and just towards death on infants, children, etc.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Feb 15 2013, 08:19 PM