Appreciate cifus advise on this..
opinion from loss adjustors or car owners with similar kind of experience are most welcomed..
car is almost 2 years old (recond built in 2008), victim of a reckless driver..
Thought the car is repairable as what mentioned by the workshop but friends told its totalled - due to structural damages.
Workshop could be conflicted if declared as total loss as no earnings to the workshop as payment will be direct to owner - frens told..
but frens could be wrong as they are not expert in this field..
insurance co / loss adjustors might be conflicted too right? as they trying possible ways to cut costs for their paymaster..

my worried is in term of roadworthiness, if the car can be repaired without compromising safety, why not?
but the workshop said this need 5-6 months to repair- the earliest could be 3 months.. if not a major issues, why taking so long?
what do you guys think?




Attached thumbnail(s)

Left A-Pillar affected, can claim total lost for this. Tell the adjuster to check with Puspakom if he says can be repaired.

you will likely need to change the top. that means sawing it up and replace with a donor car. that alone will fail your jpj inspection and its not safe unless you fancy a topless car in your next crash.
perhaps the repair shop got no confidence in finding a donor part.

claim total loss.
dont bother fix.
side pillar, A pillar integrity compromised.
you fixed also it wont be as strong as it used to be.
in case another accident happen in future, the car wont be safe. you might be killed inside.

thanks Alg7_munif, how bad is A-Pillar affected which can be deemed as total loss?
workshop told if i go for total loss, i'll incur more losses as the insurance will only cover up to market value as determined by them/not insured amount..
as for me, if really it compromise safety, i wouldnt dare to take any risk..
they further told that if the cost of repair is not exceeds 65% of the market value, this cannot be deemed as total loss, which they told it the repair cost wont meet the total loss criteria (cost of repair below MV) - this is due to fact that the MV for this car is still high..engine no problem i guess, as the car hit from the left and car turn turtled..

---

Added on November 23, 2012, 9:56 amthe workshop said, just replace the roof, a-pillar is not badly affected - i really not sure..
the car is damn good protecting myself and family without any serious injury..




This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 23 2012, 09:56 AM

who told you this (bolded sentence)? if its workshop, I think they want to earn insurance claim, thats why.
I dont think your car even when fixed will pass puspakom (unless tutup-mata method)

As what other forumers have said, A pillar is gone and so is your roof crumple zone. Big chance the donor car will be a write off itself so you're just putting parts from 2 damaged cars together.

If you do want to repair it, check the cost. It'll easily be 40% of what you paid for the recond car. So its basically 140% of what the car is worth ... and even if you sell it right after the repairs, what would people pay for it ? RM10k ?

This post has been edited by corad: Nov 23 2012, 09:59 AM

if after repair, you get hit again on the same spot, you might not be so lucky anymore.
dont risk it.

my case is worst than this
and yes, it can be repaired like new car
just send it to panel workshop that approved by your brand car (Toyota/Mitsu/Honda), not by insurance agent recommended
for my case, it took 2 months to complete everything

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1097140&hl=

I guess you are likely to sell off your car after repair anyway. The next victim will kena

the workshop cum insurance agent told me..
i did raised issue about puspakom - he said, this need to be arranged by the car owner, once the repair works has done..
at this moment, i'm still collecting views from different sides before concluding whether which one is right..seems that most of the views that the car is totalled..

either way, both doesnt make me happy - but what i care the most is the roadworthiness - safety..i cant tolerate on this..

---

Added on November 23, 2012, 10:12 amhi there, about your car, was the A-pillar affected?

was told that if a-pillar affected, the car wont go straight anymore..hence the safety issue..

how old is your car at the time of accident?






This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 23 2012, 10:12 AM

Zack, please spare a few minutes and watch this video-clip. View until the end where the guy sits into the 2 crumpled cars.
then you'll understand why most of us suggest you go for total-lost claim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxM9chAe1k

This post has been edited by motomeiji: Nov 23 2012, 10:22 AM

it was 11mths old that time
the A-Pillar only kena lil bit
there are other factors too before they can claim your car as total loss

i) true, double check your insurance agreement

ii) engine
iii) floorpan
iv) chasis

these i know after that accident
coz i was like u, try convincing the workshop and adjustor to claim total lost but they can't

anyway, as long ur car will be repaired in panel workshop (get advised from your car manufacturer, not insurance agent), do not worry bout the outcome coz the will replace all broken parts with original parts. dont repair, just replace any single part to a new one.

the car will be 99.99% like new

1. Cut and shut (potong-sambung) A-pillar are not allowed. The car will be deemed as kereta potong.
2. New (or sourced from donor) rooftop can be installed with sealer compound and spot welding.
3. Damaged A-pillar can be pulled with car chassis straightening bench.



The car still repairable. However, your safety will be compromised due to structural integrity weakened.

A-pillar pulling.


Rooftop replacement.

A pillar is the most important structural point in a car. if it is busted the car would be non-roadworthy. The next time u get into an accident it would probably break into and cuts you in half.

Stop trying to save the car coz next time it wont save u.

Bright side, u only need 1/2 coffin.

Fixing the A-pillar is not recommended since the material is already weaken by the impact and pulling it back into shape will make it even weaker. The A-pillar is actually part of a larger piece called "side panel outer". Just google for this and you will see that it is a big piece of stamped sheet metal.

Actually any parts can be replaced/fixed if you have the infrastructure, a normal workshop is less likely to have the correct equipment for a major part change.

Just take a soft metal spoon and bend it out of shape, then bend it back into its original shape. Can you get the spoon to be as hard as it was?

This post has been edited by alg7_munif: Nov 23 2012, 11:20 AM


Attached thumbnail(s)

thanks ..
at first, i never thought about issue on A-pillar has a big implication to the safety - total loss scenario if the car badly damage esp on engine parts - like ur car..so at first, i dont bother about total loss issue..but now im worried already after receiving more and more opinion highlighting this..

some people might say, just claim insurance and fix the car, the sell it off. but that is irresponsible, bro. have you watched the videoclip link i shared earlier?
they used 2 exact similar cars, crashed together. the "repaired" one cause the driver to be crippled forever while the never repaired one the driver is saved entirely.

thanks for highlighting..i dont know to what extend i could sell the story of the safety issue when loss adjuster and workshop seems to share the same objective (which raises a doubt of conflicted issue) at the expense of my safety of the road user.. seems we dont have sufficient law to protect the car owners on this.

The Car is a total loss. If the Insurance Company wants to repair the Car, you should make a complaint to BNM.

Someone kena already!
Pity him, driving a 'death-trap' car.

Totally confirm total lost.

Very hard to to knock those back unless potong and join new parts, which will directly not pass by JPJ.

In your case, I can't see clearly at the left A-pillar but if it is just slightly bent at the top part of the A-pillar, I think that repairing it could still be an option as the lower part is more critical. Roof panel can be replaced easily so no problem on that.

Just to show you how a weak A-pillar can be dangerous, this is from a crash test of Renault Sandero:
http://paultan.org/2012/11/16/renault-sand...-in-latin-ncap/




Attached thumbnail(s)

thank you for this video bro. i should show this to the loss adjuster hence insist for my right! Thanks

good sharing! thanks

how about the collusion on the left passenger door? anyone?

Door can be replaced easily, whole unit can be screwed on. Just make sure the body shell is still intact.

Either:
1. Plug and play from donor car.
2. Knock back and replace new door skin.

Door skin replacement.


This post has been edited by Bubble Ring: Nov 23 2012, 02:05 PM

if i may ask , how did it happen ?

so there are two parts in A-pillar - top & lower part..so you mean that the top part is served as a cover to the lower part?..

looking at the roof condition, would the pillar be straight again if we remove the roof?

i dont discount possibility of that..if that the case, what do you guys think? Still safe?

need to take more picture focus on that part.back to my earlier question in what condition the A-pillar could be deemed as total loss?

thanks guys for the free consultation advise!

As much as everyone would like to declare total lost on this, let's get back to Malaysia reality.

Your car is "repairable" by workshop standard.
Just pull, knock and replace new panels. + repaint.
Problem is, to source the parts (new or chopshop) may take longer due to not that many on the road in Malaysia.

There are many cars with worse damage than your car, which are repaired and on the road.
Don't flame me, I'm not insurance agent or working for them. Just stating the reality.

yeah yeah, there are many discussion above on structure safety, etc. But I'm not going to go into that.
You may try your luck with BNM or Puspakom, etc. to force them to fail it, but as you and me (and the rest) knows, everything in Puspakom also can pass one.

thx for ur feedback..appreciate it..the reality is not as good as u wish, its part of life..puspakom+insurance agent+loss adjuster+workshop vs owner..quite difficult task i would say..if im a lawyer, ill hold them responsible if anything goes wrong..

can i insist for a report from puspakom to review the car b4 repair? i just worried that after car repaired, it cannot passed puspakom, and insurance refused to cover as to them, the repair cost already subtantially incurred and disbursed..

I'm not sure the exact procedure, if there are any other certification company that is approved by govt/BNM/insurance/etc. other than Puspakom.
Perhaps is it possible for you to arrange tow to puspakom for inspection, whether it is safe to repair or not ? On your own cost. Get the results in black and white from puspakom, which you hope it to fail, in order for total lost.

But, even with it, the insurers may still send to workshop, workshop repair it, and "get" it approved by puspakom. Insurance will tell you, puspakom approve, now you go collect the car. See how your earlier inspection result is over-written ? Then it depends how far you want to go, lawyer, court, etc. which will waste a lot of time & money, and most people will just sell it, rather than write it off (unless rich enough to do that).

There are other side discussions as well, since you get hit at the side, has the IO police decide who is at fault 100% ? or 50-50 ? Cause if 100% the other party, your insurance don't need to pay a cent and they can claim back from the other insurer (provided the insurer is not same company as you), hence the chance of total lost approval is a bit higher.

it is not a question whether i want it to be total loss or not, its more on the issue of roadworthiness..

if the car deemed as total loss due to economically unrepairable (due to repair cost exceeds market value) , or car beyond repairable (no point repair)- i think the issue is quite straight forward..

but if the car is not safe to repair, but still can be repaired and restored so that on the surface it looks normal - but in the inside compromise the safety issue which its hardly difficult to see, if the insurance decides to repair it for the sake of they dont want to pay full market value, where is the our rights in this case? is there any protection to the car owner in this case?

on the other side of discussion, i'll put it a secondary for the moment..i still need to some advise on how to go ahead on this matter since police report already decided i'm not the one that in fault position..i got hit from a driver from the south!

When I said top & bottom, I refer to the location near to the roof or near to the hood. If the A-pillar is not bent near the hood and it is just shifted slightly near the roof, I think that it can still be repaired. It won't be as strong as the original condition but I think the risk is still low compared to it is bent at the lower end. Reason being is the A-pillar would be thicker at the bottom end so it is stronger compared to at the top end.

Just imagine the soft metal spoon that you can find in restaurants. If you can bend it slightly so that it forms a slight curve, you will find that the spoon will still be usable and the structural strength is still there. But if you bend it beyond its limit, you will find the the spoon won't have its strength anymore even when you bend it back to its original shape.

---

Added on November 23, 2012, 3:29 pmLast time I made a police report, they asked me to specify the damage to the vehicle, make sure that you mention that there is a damage at the A-pillar. In that case, at least you have a documented report if anything doesn't seem to be right.

This post has been edited by alg7_munif: Nov 23 2012, 03:29 PM

care to share with me how to? by PM also can...please...i really want to know how cos i got 1 car waiting for puspakom examination...

This post has been edited by Daniel John: Nov 23 2012, 03:49 PM

Just need to find a runner to do the job, they know their business inside out...

1. From a technical point of view, your car is 100% repairable (as long as replacement parts available).
2. After repair, you will headache about workmanship of repair (assuming you're unlucky).
3. You won't be able to sell off your car (even though you did, it is morally unethical because someone will suffer it later).
4. Then, your car roadworthiness will be your forever nightmare!

Worse case workshop bribery relevant parties to approve cut and shut repair.





Form workshop point of view, cut and shut repair is the easier and fastest method of repair.


Sorry for pouring so many pour cold water on you.
This kind of reality is hard to swallow.

You can say (or even proof) it is not road worthy, but once repairs by workshop, "approved" by puspakom inspection, the insurer will tell you it is road worthy.

From the pictures of the car exterior, I can tell you it is economically repairable, and won't exceed the % of market value to write it off.

As I mention earlier, this is Malaysia. We don't have much rights here. Even if you get puspakom to certify it is not road worthy, the workshop can get it "approved" also by puspakom. Of course, you can go all out for lawyer, court, etc. as mention above also. Send for car x-ray, etc. You can choose to fight it out, wait for a court date, take leave/absense to attend, hire lawyer, etc. And still not necessary you will win the case, it's 50-50. And who will bear the cost of it, etc.

Sorry, I don't have contacts that can share here. Just ask workshops/runners or hang around Puspakom there, someone will approach you. They will settle. Too bad, this is Malaysia.

1) ok, yup, its repairable, becoz the workshop told me that now..they also the one suggesting when towing my car that loss adjuster could probably view this as total loss too..but now change their mind already perhaps after looking carefully about the car conditions i guess..but they transferred the car to another workshop belonging to them as the current workshop doesnt have expertise in structural damage works..

2) replacement part i think should not be an issue i guess..this MPV car is quite common in Malaysia

3) The workshop suggests to consider selling the car after the repair works finishes. Its not becoz of the safety issue, but rather to avoid the car being total loss where compensation by the insurance company (If i insists and manage to get thru) is not as high as if i sell it in the secondary car market..

4) Seriously, the workshop never highlight about the roadworthiness issue..could be to them everything are repairable, the question is whether so its economically repairable to do so or not..when it come to structure panel works, it may take 5-6 months, or 3 months the earliest..

This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 23 2012, 06:16 PM

If the repaired car is road worthy, why would they ask you to sell the car? Better if they ask you to just use it back since the car is fully "repaired".

becoz they might be thinking that im no longer interested to drive the car? i think so?
when i asked about the total loss to them, the things in their mind was that i'll be incurring more losses if i proceed with that.. first question they asked was how much loan outstanding of car, and they said i might end up to pay for difference depending the insurance compensation which usually not able to cover the loan amount, considering the car is not more than 2 years old..not to mentioned about huge down payment i need to pay for the new car..
so selling the car at secondary market might give me better return at least it could cover the loan amount, hence ease the burden for down payment for the new car..

as i said before, they never think about safety issue, its more on $$$$$$$ matters to them..

There is another type of "repair" which the brother of a friend has encountered before. He was involved with quite a big accident and the car was quite badly damaged. The car was sent to a workshop where they said the car can be repaired.

The car was at the workshop for about a month and then he went to check it out but no work was done yet. A few weeks later he went again and still no work has been done. A week after that the workshop called him to collect his car and what a surprise, the car is now back in good condition. Even bigger surprise was the car now comes with tinted film installed, he did not have any tinted before this.

We think that the car was a stolen vehicle and the workshop just do some VIN & engine number tempering to change the identity of the car...

wat car ?
brand pls

---

Added on November 23, 2012, 7:18 pmu can pass JPJ is another thing.... LOL..thats why my proton wira will be my last 2nd hand car in my life...

This post has been edited by ralph_lauren: Nov 23 2012, 07:18 PM

Pay Puspakom to fail the test? Depends on if you are willing to spend more on the tester than the insurance company... but after some point they will probably give in. Might be more economical. Though perhaps the insurance company will switch the tester.

You can go to the media, try to make it known that the insurance company wants to kill you. Bad publicity might be enough to just compensate you.

Even if you only replace the roof I doubt the structural integrity will be as good as with an undamaged car. Keep in mind that every single part of the car was engineered to break and crumble at exactly the right pressure (maybe this does not apply to Japanese cars... at least ASEAN spec ones). It all works together in order to absorb as much energy as possible, as smoothly as possible. How is a workshop supposed to get it exactly right? Exactly the right rigidity? They don't have the data, and even if, I doubt it can be done.

Imagine driving a tank (which is extremely solid) into something even more solid. That causes the tank to stop abruptly. Even if the tank does not crumble this will probably kill you, because you are stopped at once. The g-forces are too high for the human body to survive.

Proton

blame the PUSPAKOM lor..i dont have any frens in PUSPAKOM but they do..
ok, i dont want to be seen as prejudice to the profession being the loss adjustor, workshop, insurance agent or PUSPAKOM, in normal cases, most of them are good ones (otherwise they could not get the required licences) but in reality there are also few bad ones too...so there are still possibilities, but looking at worse case scenarios and chances of that happening to me, lets disregard that at this moment..as for myself, i wouldnt want to declare it as total loss unless it compromise safety..need to fork out cash unnecessarily hoping to get rid of non-accident free car is not my objective here.

anyone from loss adjustor/insurance agent dealing with claim or workshop owner here could also share views?

Once u got in an accident with a weakened structured car and u lost ur leg or ur hand or ur limb, then even with the 10k money u saved from losing the car to total lost wont be able to buy you a new hand. Think that.

yes, really thanx for that..
simply the decision whether its total lost or not is not within my power..
as i said earlier, it really its compromised the safety, i'll fight for it, but i'm not in the position to decide this..
unless if you are saying that just get it repaired but dont use it..

Maybe after they fixed it, you can go to Puspakom, pay for your self, see whether they pass it or not, then complaint at Bank Negara, FMB, Tribunal Pengguna?

Well said brother!

Referring to this thread, some stupid forumer suggested to reinforce crumble zone.
Crumble zone meant to be crumble. How the workshop determine the right amount of "reinforce" needed?
On below second video, 8:20 to 8:50 demonstrated the well-engineered crumble zone against over-engineered crumble zone.


Bubble wrap act just like the crumble zone of a car to absorb the impact energy.



Skip to 6:02 to watch the egg test, best to support your statement: "Even if the tank does not crumble this will probably kill you, because you are stopped at once"

so that mean, in short, anything about affecting the roof is no longer safe?

so I.dun puspakom can pass la like tat...no source...all say runner only...

lipoted

i think some replies you've gotten pointed you to head to a panel beater approved by the car manufacturing company.

the idea behind that is so that they have the ability/knowledge to restore the chassis to within manufacturer's dimensional tolerences.

there has to be a compromise here. one cannot expect the same physical properties of the metal to be maintained once the deformed metal has been worked in (ie. repaired). quality of the metal is obviously sacrificed but if parts of the metal being repaired have not sheared off which will result in welding the area, the repair could be acceptable.

depending on the quality of the repairs, you may experience stress cracks developing around the areas where repairs were made to the structural members of the car. the most common would be degradation in the welds made during the repair (ie. surface not prepared properly prior to welding or porosity of the welds just to name a couple).

if at all possible and costs aren't too high, you ought to consider engaging a third party inspection company to survey the damages.

Like it or not, the fact is our country is so corrupted.

Fact: all imported CBU cars must go through Puspakom inspection regardless whether it is new or used.
Fact: you should not be able to pass the inspection if your windows are darker than the allowed level.
Fact: look around you and see how many Alphards, Estimas, Vellfires and etc. on the road which have dark glass all round the car except for the front glasses. These cars have all under gone through the Puspakom inspection.
Fact: if you want to sell your car, you need to book a slot for inspection a few weeks earlier but if you use a runner, he can do it for you just within 1-2 days.

fact about alphard cos family own veilfire: importer sewa the glass from shop changing glasses before puspakom inspection...I can intro u the glass shop...so puspakom being cheated or the importer is corrupted...

fact about selling car : puspakom inspection no need to book...1st come 1st serve basis...I dunno which puspakom are u going but tats wat wangsa maju puspakom practice...

back to the topic...
as the owner u actually have the final say with the insurance company...
1) since the car is recond, not sure about Toyota policy but once our family estima which is recond can not be diagnostic for a problem in Toyota sc...that maybe a different case...
2) u may or u may not pass the puspakom inspection once the repair is done unless someone here is intro u with lobang...

every puspakom inspector will sign the form...in the future if u get caught..the person who sign ur form is in danger...it is not easy like last time

hi there, to what extend the owner have the final say? refuse to accept any kind of insurance settlement will that make the insurance policy void?..on the other hand, u cant also ask for the sky rite? what they will do probably to convince u that this is the best offer, take it or leave it..

about sending the car to toyota, i'll insist for that in case they still want to proceed to fix the car..

@zack

the first matter to concern is .. is that toyota body n paint workshop?
if toyota's B&P, they will repair for you in legal way.. and will get putrajaya's letter for the puspakom's inspection
but your car's logbook will be written some jpj notes.. "kebenaran utk membaiki XXXX ..."
while thirdparty workshop most probably your car just pull n knock back to the shape and put cement kaokao..

no matter which way you choose, because it is pillar n roof cases.. the resell value will be shit..

the total lost n repair is under the adjuster's decision

I would like to share my experience with you, , 10 years ago I have the same situation like you, but it is a Proton saga.
I wrote to the insurance company, staying that the a pillar is crooked and the only way is to re weld with another a pillar, I said you can do what ever you can to salvage the car, but after that I will bring it to puspakom for inspection.If fall then I will claim total loss from your company, however I am will to accept certain amountof compensation as total loss.
Then they accept and I get the money instead of repairing the car.
You must write to them yourself.

I think the proper term is "constructive total lost" or something like that. It basically means the cost is too high to make repair not worth the trouble. Propose that to the insurance company and they may be agreeable.

dear TS,

based on the 6 photos you provided. this car is not serious at all

it just a skin damaged...

u all talk about A pillar damaged..the damage is only at the skin, not the base

look at the photo i provided, that is what we call damage....total lost without doubt

TS's car skin damage and doors etc can be done within few months, if there is body panel need to replace. Insurance will insists repair to get approval from JPJ PutraJaya before the repairer proceed to repair. after repaired, repairer need to bring the JPJ approval letter to Puspakom for safety inspection.

Once Puspakom passed, they will give one copy report to repairer/car owner, one copy to JPJ and one copy to insurance.

Once insurance received, they will approved the claim and release the car to owner

nowadays insurance very strict, not like last time.

all Repairers need to follow PIAM ,JPJ, Puspakom and bank Negara procedures now...

As a forummer, of coz we all suggest TS to claim total lost....because thats not your car. "claim total lost and buy a new one la"......but who bear the cost?

try calculate the fee involves and ask urself if its worth...



This post has been edited by huakenny: Nov 24 2012, 05:30 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

The guard at Bangi won't even let you in if you didn't have a booking for that day.

This post has been edited by alg7_munif: Nov 24 2012, 09:15 PM


Attached thumbnail(s)

hi there..

its not toyota body workshop..was told by the workshop that toyota doesnt want to do for my case..

in fact, they themselves sent my car to another workshop becoz they dont hv expertise in structured panel..

so i went to the another workshop where they keep my car, pending insurance loss adjuster to come..

when i asked them how long will it take to repair my car, they cant answer exactly when, as the timing depending on several milestone..

first, get the loss adjuster to give their evaluation..say, the repair cost doesnt exceeds 65% of the market value..

before my car get repaired, the owner (which is me, not the workshop) must write to JPJ Putrajaya on something "kebenaran membaiki"..when i asked why need JPJ blessing first, they told that becoz the repair works needs to replace left A-pillar and the roof (2 key structural parts)..he told that under JPJ rules, JPJ allow repair up to two critical parts, in this case, A-pillar and roof..say B-pillar need to replace too, then it wont get passed JPJ already..

after that, say JPJ approved it, and next time the car get into accident again which has something to do with any of the pillar, JPJ would not allow anymore..

walawey, seems like i'm the one who insist to get the car repaired instead of the total loss, to do so, i need to ask JPJ permission first before getting my car repaired..

they wont proceed to repair the car until JPJ's approval is given..once the repair work has done, then the car must be sent to puspakom for inspection..

so when i asked them about possibility of the car declaring as total loss, they said, no points talking about it already becoz eventually lies on the loss adjuster's opinion..the car's market value is still high to meet the 65% marks for total loss..

in my case, what should i do?

This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 24 2012, 09:27 PM

Instead of writing to JPJ asking for permission, write it so that it is informing them about your accident and the damage to your car. Then ask them whether it is safe to be repaired and request for their permission if the car can be repaired safely.

'
thanks mate..

i did asked the workshop why need to replace the left A-pillar if the damage only at the skin, he said, the base also "kena"..same treatment for replacement of door panel, Toyota's part comes with a separate part of A-pillar..just replace the A-pillar part then its done..since i really dont know about this car things, i just take it without further question..

What do you mean, Luke didn't really get a new hand?! Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

We need a yearly puspakom check, done by something like the TÜV, to their standards and by well trained testers. They also have to be regularly checked for corruption, i.e. every month or so someone unknown goes there with a car and tries to bribe. If he gets through the tester is immediately fined and fired, also branded as corrupt. Though I'd expect about 40-60% of all cars on our roads can't pass the test without significant repairs... or at all.

Even the car industry should be in favour for this, since it means they get to sell new cars

TS,

as a repairer....my personal suggestion is to repair the car.

adjuster and insurance wont totalled your car, it just too minor....

if u need more info, you can pm me......

Toyota itself doesnt do body repair, even they did...they also assigned third party(outside workshop) to do......

many customers dunno bout this...they insists to sent toyota for repair, but actually the one repair your car is from outside workshop(appointed)

my 2cent

yup, get the loss adjuster to see the car first..
but is it true that the owner have to go personally to JPJ putrajaya to ask for approval, not the workshop?
i foresee tedious process and the car wont get fix expeditiously due to that..the car then need to go puspakom for inspection..but what happen the car cant get passed the puspakom? will the insurance company the willing to give full market value compensation after substantial repair costs has been incurred?
say puspakom approved the car to be on the road, the next step is to claim for "loss of use benefit"..this is tricky part as the one that bang my car was a singaporean car, meaning, the singapore insurance company..this another things that i totally lost..

http://www.toyota.com.my/highlights/body-and-paint.html

There are 21 Toyota outlets which do body & paint jobs:
http://www.toyota.com.my/sales-service-locator/

all jobs done by workshop...not owner

loss of use can be claim back

if u no ideas, ask ur insurance firm...not agent(agent know nuts bout claim)

if ur car follows the proper JPJ guidelines to fix, puspakom normally passed

wat i meant is...as i know..most of them are appointed outsider, to work there....

example, toyota branch A appointed this workshop ABC as panel repairer, so workshop ABC sent his staff to repair the car at toyota outlet. once done, they ciao...

toyota staff only do service maintenane job, and some insurance claim

corect me if im wrong

just deal directly with your insurance Co claim division. officially write-in as a start, seeking an appointment w/ claim dept.

dealing w/ agents, work-shops will only lead you to thousands of "opinions only".

thanks, i've called the claim division already..they asked me to claim direct to the singapore insurance company..they even give me the address and the phone number already..wth?

---

Added on November 26, 2012, 5:18 pmthe problem is, since mine is recond car from Japan, they (TOYOTA) here wont take it..
the workshop that currently im dealing with is structure panel workshop registered with PIAM, but i cant verify this.


This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 26 2012, 05:18 PM

better ask the workshop help u do the paperwork n help you submit..i not sure how is west malaysia procedure...but i at east malaysia, im helping customers to do all these things....

you wont be able to do it correctly as it is quite troublesome, it just waste of time.

let me know if u need the sample for those letters etc, i can email to you

most insurance claim workshops are registered under PIAM, this is the basic requirement. without PIAM, they can get into this industry. so no worries.

as long as the workshop is panel for your insurance firm, then it is fine.

This post has been edited by huakenny: Nov 26 2012, 08:01 PM

thanks BRO, definitely need your help on this. sure will PM u thx in advance for willing to lend me such help..
another question, to what extend the liability from the third party insurance in my case?
the car wont get fixed at least in the next 3 months..how much per day you would think they will compensate. i'm using my other car at this moment and not gonna rent new car, so cannot show any invoices etc to claim.

---

Added on November 26, 2012, 8:43 pmthanks BRO, definitely need your help on this. sure will PM u thx in advance for willing to lend me such help..
another question, to what extend the liability from the third party insurance in my case?
the car wont get fixed at least in the next 3 months..how much per day you would think they will compensate. i'm using my other car at this moment and not gonna rent new car, so cannot show any invoices etc to claim.


This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 26 2012, 08:43 PM

TS, is this a recon Toyota Wish? How many airbags are there in this car? Did any airbags deployed during the accident?

---

Added on November 26, 2012, 8:43 pm
thanks BRO, definitely need your help on this. sure will PM u thx in advance for willing to lend me such help..
another question, to what extend the liability from the third party insurance in my case?
the car wont get fixed at least in the next 3 months..how much per day you would think they will compensate. i'm using my other car at this moment and not gonna rent new car, so cannot show any invoices etc to claim.

[/quote]

third party insurance for ur car should be enough to cover.....

the loss of use gotta wait for adjuster report, it will written estimated days. wish should be around rm150 daily(estimated)...you dun ned show invoice for this

[quote=huakenny,Nov 27 2012, 01:11 AM]

---

Added on November 26, 2012, 8:43 pm
thanks BRO, definitely need your help on this. sure will PM u thx in advance for willing to lend me such help..
another question, to what extend the liability from the third party insurance in my case?
the car wont get fixed at least in the next 3 months..how much per day you would think they will compensate. i'm using my other car at this moment and not gonna rent new car, so cannot show any invoices etc to claim.

[/quote]

third party insurance for ur car should be enough to cover.....

the loss of use gotta wait for adjuster report, it will written estimated days. wish should be around rm150 daily(estimated)...you dun ned show invoice for this

[/quote]

i can only claim the loss of use benefit after the car repair works has finished rite, do we need to inform them now so that they are aware and acknowledge such liability? just dont want to be caught in the situation that procedurally, early notification must be made to them within certain period of time after the accident happen failing which, their liability is discharged automatically? what if the insurance company refuses to pay such compensation? Pls bear in mind its singapore insurance company and i dont think KFK arrangement cover this, as i understand this application must be made direct by the owner to the insurance company. what if after the car repaired, the car didnt passed the PUSPAKOM test? will the insurance company declare the car total loss and compensate me based on the full market value (after incurring so much repair cost already)? what if i dont agree with the loss adjuster report and also argue the calculation of the estimated of days for the loss of use benefit?

[quote=zack2381,Nov 28 2012, 09:26 AM]
third party insurance for ur car should be enough to cover.....

the loss of use gotta wait for adjuster report, it will written estimated days. wish should be around rm150 daily(estimated)...you dun ned show invoice for this

[/quote]

i can only claim the loss of use benefit after the car repair works has finished rite, do we need to inform them now so that they are aware and acknowledge such liability? just dont want to be caught in the situation that procedurally, early notification must be made to them within certain period of time after the accident happen failing which, their liability is discharged automatically? what if the insurance company refuses to pay such compensation? Pls bear in mind its singapore insurance company and i dont think KFK arrangement cover this, as i understand this application must be made direct by the owner to the insurance company. what if after the car repaired, the car didnt passed the PUSPAKOM test? will the insurance company declare the car total loss and compensate me based on the full market value (after incurring so much repair cost already)? what if i dont agree with the loss adjuster report and also argue the calculation of the estimated of days for the loss of use benefit?

[/quote]

if the car is appplied JPJ for approval before repair of panel replacement...the car normally will passed as all procedures followed

if the car din applied JPJ for body panel replacement and then you failed puspakom test, then u will be headache

the loss of use if not agree, appeal again and wait for approval.....not agree again, appeal and wait again....few months few months and few months....

better go directly to your own insurance company and ask them all these..u will get clear picture on the spot how to claim singapore insurance company...

over forum, we just can advise yet not 100% accurate

Yes,undoubtedly good protecting you and family...for the first time.Second time wont be so lucky.

[/quote]

if the car is appplied JPJ for approval before repair of panel replacement...the car normally will passed as all procedures followed

if the car din applied JPJ for body panel replacement and then you failed puspakom test, then u will be headache

the loss of use if not agree, appeal again and wait for approval.....not agree again, appeal and wait again....few months few months and few months....

better go directly to your own insurance company and ask them all these..u will get clear picture on the spot how to claim singapore insurance company...

over forum, we just can advise yet not 100% accurate

[/quote]

the one i bolded above, make me worry already..

TS, is this a recon Toyota Wish? How many airbags are there in this car? Did any airbags deployed during the accident?

thats the issue here..if the car compromise the safety of the passenger, wouldnt this considered the car is not road-worthiness anymore?
agree with one of forummer opinion here, this should be viewed as statutory loss, not economically loss.
But the reality is, i will be given unfavorable options and i am not in the position to bargain.
Just need to accept the fact that the lucky was not on my side this time, i was at the wrong place and wrong time..that the price i paid for despite other's fault..still glad due to the fact that im not the one that caused the accident, and this accident doesnt caused to any serious injury..thank God!

---

Added on November 28, 2012, 3:37 pmhi, its 2008 version not 2009, so i presume only two airbags..
the car hit right at the left centre of my car, so i didnt notice the car coming from the left..the impact quite heavy looking at the collusion at the both door panel..
the airbag didnt deploy..but the other's car, yes...

This post has been edited by zack2381: Nov 28 2012, 03:37 PM

zack, what car hit you?

I do believe I'm in suitable condition to advise you on this matter.
I'm working in collision repair insurance claim workshop (franchise and non-franchise).

May I ask, what is the year of your car built? I don't think the car is not manufactured at year 2008 but registered at 2008.
For insurance claim, usually either serious structural damage or the car repair cost must exceed 65% of the sum insured value, else insurance company will most like to grant repair for this vehicle.
The jurisdiction also depend on which insurance company u insured the car with?
Certain insurance company very hard to total lost even the repair cost exceed 60%.


Nowadays for workshop, we do charge owner RM500 (towing + administration fee, storage fee [mind u, rental in KL is expensive] etc) if the vehicle being claimed total lost. Insurance company won't even pay us a single cent for the work we done to help owner to submit claim, etc. If you think its unfair for workshop to charge you so, then do the claim yourself.
Certain area, the charge due to different in towing fee, police documents fee (nowadays those sergeant is shark, if u dun give them RM50 to RM150, dun think about getting the police report and photo, usually we ask the owner to report and buy the report/photo him/herself).


Usually cars with structural damage, the workshop will only start the repair upon receive the approval letter.
Structural damage can be repaired, provided the correct technique and replacement part, it can done.
Malaysia may not have the proper repair manual to repair Toyota Wish but it can be obtained from Thatcham.Org
A proper workshop shall have the ability to repair the car back. To me, it isn't really that serious.
It shouldn't exceed in RM25k in repair cost, there are many used parts for Toyota Wish the market.

I had a Toyota Wish in my shop b4, something similar like yours but much more serious in damage. The repair cost is just below 35k.

Usually cars like this if being repaired back, owner will be required to apply for JPJ inspection for roadworthyness inspection to ensure proper repair has been done to the vehicle itself, mainly to ensure there isn't "kereta sambung" case that was famous and commonly practice back then in 1980s and 1990s.
The vehicle registration card will be stamped of "roof panel replaced, pillar replaced" and to do the inspection, the owner shall have to bear the cost for all the puspakom vouchers to perform the necessary repair.

I do really think your car is repairable but you have the rights to apply for total lost declaration.
Write in a letter to show your concern about losing confidence of driving this vehicle on the vehicle if it being repaired, etc.


p/s : I only read the first post of the thread, sorry for any words that I may typed wrongly due to not reading all the posts.

This post has been edited by allenultra: Nov 28 2012, 05:22 PM

thank you for sharing info..

the car built in early 2008, registered here in 2011. The workshop said the car already 5 years by now, hence replacement should be from used part, not new part, under BNM rules. (verification check: issit true the car already 5 years old for the insurance purpose?)

as for 65% mark, if the loss adjuster value the car lower and the workshop up the repair ost price, wouldnt it able to reach 65% mark?..pls note i had my other car repaired in workshop, not serious though, just change the front bonet and front lights and spray(nothing on the engine)- it costed the insurance co for RM7k already for used part (according to insurance claim).. for this kind of damages, i imagine the cost should escalate few times higher..

my insurance from etiqa, same also for the car that hit me, but singapore branch.. towing, police report are all done, im not the one being summoned.

yup, the workshop will only start doing the repair work once JPJ approval letter is obtained. In this case, the owner must do themselves, not the workshop (verification check: issit true?)

so the structure panel can be properly repaired without kes "sambung" case? Why i should be the one have to incur costs for JPJ or PUSPAKOM inspection? is it claimable to the insurance company? what happen if the car proceeded to repair and then thereafter PUSPAKOM reject it? what happen then?

[The vehicle registration card will be stamped of "roof panel replaced, pillar replaced"] - this will make the car is not saleable in the secondary market as peoples are car about safety risk too...i view this as a total loss due to this reason as well..

on the letter, to whom should i address the letter to? chances wise how?

Structural parts can be replaced if the workshop have the infrastructure to do it. Problem is when they don't do it properly i.e. just "ketuk & simen". In that case then you will be risking your life if you keep on driving the car.

Thats why its important the car to go thru PUSPAKOM inspection first. but i guess the PUSPAKOM inspection is owner's pocket money and not sure what happen if the car cannot passed PUSPAKOM. this question still left unanswered.