Here is a more complete list of signings during his 6 years at Anfield. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...gers-reign.html

Yes, there were some good signings and I didn't take anything away from that. I did say that he did sign some good players but again when compared with all the players he signed and money spent it was a very low ratio of them actually coming good.

He's not a bad manager but he has some fault in things as well. He's human and made mistakes, not a problem but maybe he should just move on and focus on the present. I'm a fan since 1990 and I just think he should share some of the blame instead of constantly pinning it on others.

I know there are a lot of fans who think otherwise but there's two sides to a coin and we're probably only fed his side of the story and not the other. Doesn't matter anyway because I know I've moved on from his departure and stop talking about Rafa and how we wouldn't be where we are if he was still in charge.

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Added on September 11, 2012, 1:35 pmFinally! Someone who actually really understand what I'm trying to say. He isn't shit of a manager but he had his faults that contributed to his departure so maybe people should stop talking about his glory days and just move on instead of blaming it on ex-owners. He was good at some point and he was bad at some point but that is part of life so it's unfair for fans to jump to his defense at every chance.

Fans should just focus on the present and stop comparing. He left so leave it at that, he won some he lost some. I'd rather come to this forum to talk about the potential of us becoming a great football team again instead of talking bout past laurels.

This post has been edited by keith.hmc: Sep 11 2012, 01:35 PM

I don't see a problem people wanting to talk about his upcoming book. He's very much an important figure concerning LFC after all. So i'm sure some people are curious and interested in regards to the content of the book.

Again, not my point. I'm just saying that he shouldn't keep blaming the ex-owners and also fans should stop defending him like he has never done anything wrong at Anfield. Like I said, I don't think he is a bad manager and I don't dislike him either. I'm just sick of hearing him saying that he didn't get enough money and whatnot. I think he should just move on and focus on his current position and we as fans should also stop focusing on the past.

Don't get me wrong, the team definitely contributed altogether but again, maybe we would be much better if the money spent was spent on better players instead of bringing a host of below-average players. I'm merely suggesting that we look at both sides and remain a neutral on this matter as we don't know the full story and just move on from this.

Constantly debating about who's right or wrong is pointless. Just like a break-up, both parties are always at fault no matter how small the fault so I'm just saying he had some fault for his departure as well and it's not entirely the fault of the ex-owners and directors. So maybe fans should stop blaming it all on the ex-owners.

Elsewhere, Samed Yesil continued his fine goalscoring form by firing for Germany in their friendly against Wales U19s. The striker had struck twice last Thursday to see off England and he was lethal again on Monday night as he netted the first as the Germans ran-out 3-1 winners.

Play him maybe or Suso should be given chance first given the fact that he is more familiar with the team

I don't think i missed the point at all. You said it was mostly down to Gerrard carrying the team, which is utterly nonsense. Everyone concerning the club; the manager, the players, the fans, all played their part in making sure we remained competitive during all those years under Rafa.

I don't think he's perfect either but to say that he shares the blame as much as G&H is a bit over the top don't you think ? One were driving this club into the ground through debt, the other had us punching above our weight despite messing up in transfer markets.

And for what it's worth, no one was debating about Rafa until you started slagging him off.

Apparently you did not dwelled on why RB settled on budget target instead of world class talents. Hence the slagging on him buying so much below avg players. If given a choice, you'd think he won't buying in Harrods instead???
Let me keep it simple, the squad is full of gaps & holes, how not to buy below avg players to plug gaps with limited budget??

Agree. Cant wait to see the kid in action with Suarez. I know it's a dream but i hope to see Suarez on the right, Sterling on the left and Yesil on the centre.

I was in no way slagging him. I was merely saying that he has to share the blame. He messed up in the transfer markets and while we challenged he still made mistakes in the transfer market involving huge sums of money so can you honestly say he didn't contribute to the debts the club had? Just because he messed up in the transfer market while the ex-owners run the club to the ground doesn't mean he don't need to take blame for his mistakes in the transfer market.

The other players helped yes but you can't deny the fact that they should have done a lot better considering the money spent as well as them being selected by the manager. What I meant about the Gerrard point is that we relied heavily on him which I believe I did say in my initial post and considering their big money moves, Gerrard shouldn't have to be relied on as heavily. It was evident back then that when Gerrard wasn't playing, the team was just not good enough. So I'm trying to say that for the money spent maybe the players brought in should be the types that can cover for us even when Gerrard wasn't playing.

I wasn't in any way discrediting Rafa or trying to start an argument (which clearly some of you have taken it too seriously and failed to see another possibility of what might have happened). I'm merely saying to the general to stop publicly criticizing others. Hence, he have to share some of the blame. I'm not saying he has take all the blame but it is obvious that his mistakes in the transfer market did add to the debt of the club.

You and others took it as me slagging him off when I'm just saying to be a neutral cause we are not there when it happened. Don't take it too seriously, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I was just sharing my opinion as a fellow fan and I didn't in any way say that I was 100% correct. I don't have any hard feelings over the discussions we had and we're all fans so maybe I'm just one person giving a different point of view that you all can think about. You don't have to accept it (which is quite clear by now that you don't) but it doesn't mean that my comments were complete nonsense.

Clearly, we all need to calm down and start reading more. I say we start with understanding each other's opinion and not jump.

However, I do like lively debate. Please continue. LOL. Rather a noisy forum than a boring quietness.

Agreed. Everyone need to calm down. It's just a different opinion, no need to start saying my comments are nonsense. I've tried to be diplomatic and granted you all have your point but I believe that my point is also a valid discussion. Try to understand my point of view of trying to be a neutral in their closed door dealings and just focus on the football (MOVE ON with the Rafa issue). We're all fans here discussing any possibility.

Just my 1 opinion, you can take it or leave it doesn't matter. I'm simply offering a different perspective.

Dillon, thanks for being diplomatic and a neutral in this discussion! Appreciate it!

Saying Gerrard had to carry the team is to discredit Rafa and his other players. There's no other way you can spin that. Personally, I wouldn't have replied to your post but when you raised Rafa to the height of a villain that was G&H, i simply had to defend his good name.

How did Rafa contributed to our debt ? Can you provide the exact evidence and number ? As far as i know, Rafa's transfer fund came from CL revenues and the players he had to sell.

I find it hypocritical on your part to say one thing but then say things that contradict yourself. If you want us to forget Rafa, then how about you don't mention him at all ? As i've said no one here was debating about him until you came along and start talking about him in depth. People were just excited about his book, nothing wrong with that imo.

I get that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean it's immune from scrutiny and cannot be questioned. It's a public forum after all, not a personal blog.

I share ur view and can definitely relate to it

Just calm down alright, yes I can't prove it that he added to the debt but others won't be able to disprove that he didn't either. Simple as that, remain a neutral and just focus on the football of the present. You can say I'm hypocritical, you can say I'm not a true fan or whatever you wish but I was just sharing an opinion and yes it is open to scrutiny but maybe you should calm down and not judge me as a hypocrite? I'm not judging you by saying anything personal like "a hypocrite that I am".

The only reason I said what I said was because I've seen post from others talking about how Rafa would've done a better job if he was still here. We don't know that for sure. Try not to judge so quickly. This is a public forum like you said, so for you to tell me to not mention Rafa at all is unfair. It's public so I have just as much right to bring up a point as you do. I never told you to not mention a particular topic anymore.

Just calm down and leave this discussion as it is. All of us. It was 1 comment only, no need to start "slagging" me now. No hard feelings and move on. We had a difference in opinion, not a big deal right? Let's just agree to disagree lo.

No sweat, buddy. Every Liverpool fans are brothers to me. At the end of the day, it's just a Kopitiam chit-chat and many differences of opinions. Some may be wrong, some may be right. Whatever it is, we love Liverpool together and it will not change.

To end a debate in a friendly manner, I always use the word "Let's agree to disagree". LOL

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Added on September 11, 2012, 2:51 pmAh, looks like you already use the magic word. LOL

This post has been edited by dillonyong: Sep 11 2012, 02:51 PM

Hahahaha... Yea. It's just a friendly comment. I didn't mean to incite anyone into an argument. I see it the same, we all love the same club anyway so why pass a personal comment of that particular person anyway. Just because I see things differently doesn't make me any less of a person than others and vice versa. We all have our opinions and if it's not agreeable then just leave it be lo. Let's agree to disagree indeed.

I am calm haha. I have not thrown petty insults at you whatsoever. Just questioning some of your points that's all bro. No hard feeling aye.

Hahaha... Not a problem dude. I enjoy a good debate anyway, I may be wrong and I am in no way saying that I was certainly correct about my comments. It's just my opinion. Well, let me just apologize if I, in any way, offended anyone with my comments. To the rest who disagree with me, you don't have to accept what I say and let's just all move on and continue to talk about our love for Liverpool.

hfi, no problem and thanks too for such a good discussion. Hahaha... Haven't had one like this in ages. No hard feelings too and cheers.

I seriously cant wait for the next match to come so that BR can put things right and get the right result for us.

Hope to see this formation against Sunderland.

Sterling - Yesil - Suarez
---------Gerrard----------
-----Allen - - Shelvey----
Enrique - Agger - Skrtel - Johnson

lol, i love to use this kind of formation when i play football manager

btw i may be the only 1 saying this, but i think sterling need to control his game. most of the time i'm watching him, he hardly passes and dribbles a lot. if u ask me, unless he learns to control his game, i'd play him like i play luis garcia, a super sub. but then again thats just in football manager

But on current form, I prefer Sterling to Borini on the left.
Borini's passing is still suspicious, though he came close to finishing a few moves but was unlucky. I think let's put him or Yesil on centre role.

The only thing that worried me about Sunderland is they have a brilliant manager in Martin O'Neill.