I know that many still side Benitez but as a die hard Liverpool fan, I think Benitez gets too much credit than he deserves. Yes, he won us the Champs League and FA Cup and came a close second but it is also more often than not that Stevie G carried us through alone. Most of his "signings" failed to live up to the expectations and didn't really add anything to the team. Granted those handful of his "signings" performed, even then we still relied heavily on Gerrard and his tactics sometimes were too negative. I feel he spent way too much money on way too many players that ultimately led to this whole incident referred to by him. I know of fans who seem to forget that he spent a lot on players that ultimately we don't even remember (i.e. Josemi, Nunez, Morientes, Sissoko, Gonzalez and the list goes on). He spent a total of 226m and 76 players. Of all 76, it is safe to say that only 10 really helped the team play better. Not saying he's shit but he has to take as much of the blame as G&H.

I know he recouped back some amount as well but what I'm saying is that fans shouldn't be so quick to pin the blame on others. As mentioned earlier, I'm not saying that he is shit or a bad manager because everyone makes mistake. I just find it a little bit unfair for people to constantly criticize the owners or directors when he has as much fault in his own departure. Although he recouped money back, you also have to see that he was the reason for Alonso leaving who is arguably one of the best midfielders in the game. I mean, he wanted to ship Alonso out for Barry and Keane and honestly, that was a bad move. Although Alonso didn't get shipped out but eventually he felt like he wasn't wanted and left anyway. I'm not comparing his signings with the likes of world class but don't you think he should have brought in some better quality players instead with the money he spent. Some of the players he brought in, we never even saw in the first team right till they left.

Again, just wanna make it clear that I'm not saying he is entirely at fault for him leaving but instead of him going on about how the previous owners didn't give enough money, he should also see that he was also partly at fault for spending so much and not even having a quarter of those players performing well.

If you wanna take this the wrong way then I can't help it also but there's always two sides to a coin and I feel we shouldn't be so quick to blame it on the owners and directors. After all, we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. My stance is simple. He did help us achieve certain things and I respect him for that but at the same time fans are giving him too much credit (he deserves some but not as much as some fans having to say that he was the best manager we had in the last decade).

Here is a more complete list of signings during his 6 years at Anfield. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...gers-reign.html

Yes, there were some good signings and I didn't take anything away from that. I did say that he did sign some good players but again when compared with all the players he signed and money spent it was a very low ratio of them actually coming good.

He's not a bad manager but he has some fault in things as well. He's human and made mistakes, not a problem but maybe he should just move on and focus on the present. I'm a fan since 1990 and I just think he should share some of the blame instead of constantly pinning it on others.

I know there are a lot of fans who think otherwise but there's two sides to a coin and we're probably only fed his side of the story and not the other. Doesn't matter anyway because I know I've moved on from his departure and stop talking about Rafa and how we wouldn't be where we are if he was still in charge.

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Added on September 11, 2012, 1:35 pmFinally! Someone who actually really understand what I'm trying to say. He isn't shit of a manager but he had his faults that contributed to his departure so maybe people should stop talking about his glory days and just move on instead of blaming it on ex-owners. He was good at some point and he was bad at some point but that is part of life so it's unfair for fans to jump to his defense at every chance.

Fans should just focus on the present and stop comparing. He left so leave it at that, he won some he lost some. I'd rather come to this forum to talk about the potential of us becoming a great football team again instead of talking bout past laurels.

This post has been edited by keith.hmc: Sep 11 2012, 01:35 PM

Again, not my point. I'm just saying that he shouldn't keep blaming the ex-owners and also fans should stop defending him like he has never done anything wrong at Anfield. Like I said, I don't think he is a bad manager and I don't dislike him either. I'm just sick of hearing him saying that he didn't get enough money and whatnot. I think he should just move on and focus on his current position and we as fans should also stop focusing on the past.

Don't get me wrong, the team definitely contributed altogether but again, maybe we would be much better if the money spent was spent on better players instead of bringing a host of below-average players. I'm merely suggesting that we look at both sides and remain a neutral on this matter as we don't know the full story and just move on from this.

Constantly debating about who's right or wrong is pointless. Just like a break-up, both parties are always at fault no matter how small the fault so I'm just saying he had some fault for his departure as well and it's not entirely the fault of the ex-owners and directors. So maybe fans should stop blaming it all on the ex-owners.

I was in no way slagging him. I was merely saying that he has to share the blame. He messed up in the transfer markets and while we challenged he still made mistakes in the transfer market involving huge sums of money so can you honestly say he didn't contribute to the debts the club had? Just because he messed up in the transfer market while the ex-owners run the club to the ground doesn't mean he don't need to take blame for his mistakes in the transfer market.

The other players helped yes but you can't deny the fact that they should have done a lot better considering the money spent as well as them being selected by the manager. What I meant about the Gerrard point is that we relied heavily on him which I believe I did say in my initial post and considering their big money moves, Gerrard shouldn't have to be relied on as heavily. It was evident back then that when Gerrard wasn't playing, the team was just not good enough. So I'm trying to say that for the money spent maybe the players brought in should be the types that can cover for us even when Gerrard wasn't playing.

I wasn't in any way discrediting Rafa or trying to start an argument (which clearly some of you have taken it too seriously and failed to see another possibility of what might have happened). I'm merely saying to the general to stop publicly criticizing others. Hence, he have to share some of the blame. I'm not saying he has take all the blame but it is obvious that his mistakes in the transfer market did add to the debt of the club.

You and others took it as me slagging him off when I'm just saying to be a neutral cause we are not there when it happened. Don't take it too seriously, everyone is entitled to their opinions. I was just sharing my opinion as a fellow fan and I didn't in any way say that I was 100% correct. I don't have any hard feelings over the discussions we had and we're all fans so maybe I'm just one person giving a different point of view that you all can think about. You don't have to accept it (which is quite clear by now that you don't) but it doesn't mean that my comments were complete nonsense.

Agreed. Everyone need to calm down. It's just a different opinion, no need to start saying my comments are nonsense. I've tried to be diplomatic and granted you all have your point but I believe that my point is also a valid discussion. Try to understand my point of view of trying to be a neutral in their closed door dealings and just focus on the football (MOVE ON with the Rafa issue). We're all fans here discussing any possibility.

Just my 1 opinion, you can take it or leave it doesn't matter. I'm simply offering a different perspective.

Dillon, thanks for being diplomatic and a neutral in this discussion! Appreciate it!

Just calm down alright, yes I can't prove it that he added to the debt but others won't be able to disprove that he didn't either. Simple as that, remain a neutral and just focus on the football of the present. You can say I'm hypocritical, you can say I'm not a true fan or whatever you wish but I was just sharing an opinion and yes it is open to scrutiny but maybe you should calm down and not judge me as a hypocrite? I'm not judging you by saying anything personal like "a hypocrite that I am".

The only reason I said what I said was because I've seen post from others talking about how Rafa would've done a better job if he was still here. We don't know that for sure. Try not to judge so quickly. This is a public forum like you said, so for you to tell me to not mention Rafa at all is unfair. It's public so I have just as much right to bring up a point as you do. I never told you to not mention a particular topic anymore.

Just calm down and leave this discussion as it is. All of us. It was 1 comment only, no need to start "slagging" me now. No hard feelings and move on. We had a difference in opinion, not a big deal right? Let's just agree to disagree lo.

Hahahaha... Yea. It's just a friendly comment. I didn't mean to incite anyone into an argument. I see it the same, we all love the same club anyway so why pass a personal comment of that particular person anyway. Just because I see things differently doesn't make me any less of a person than others and vice versa. We all have our opinions and if it's not agreeable then just leave it be lo. Let's agree to disagree indeed.

Hahaha... Not a problem dude. I enjoy a good debate anyway, I may be wrong and I am in no way saying that I was certainly correct about my comments. It's just my opinion. Well, let me just apologize if I, in any way, offended anyone with my comments. To the rest who disagree with me, you don't have to accept what I say and let's just all move on and continue to talk about our love for Liverpool.

hfi, no problem and thanks too for such a good discussion. Hahaha... Haven't had one like this in ages. No hard feelings too and cheers.

Hahaha... I'm pretty sure Brendan Rodgers has made that clear to him as well. He is after all about the whole teamwork, pass and move philosophy. I'm sure he''ll become a better team player. Still young and I just hope he don't get too big headed and end up being another statistics of a promising player who failed.

Hahaha... Heated indeed but glad that we all have moved on from this with no hard feelings. Won't feel good to be arguing with a supporter of the same club.

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Added on September 11, 2012, 3:26 pmOnly time will tell, we've been craving for a tricky winger for so long now. Sterling and Assaidi (if he comes good) would be a scary partnership together with Suarez hitting top form.

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Added on September 11, 2012, 3:30 pmDid you see the video of Rodgers actually scolding Sterling? Never expected that from him. You know he doesn't mess around especially with youngsters so I think if Rodgers can have a good long run in Liverpool then he will be the man to nurture these youngsters.

This post has been edited by keith.hmc: Sep 11 2012, 03:30 PM

Yea man. So frustrating to watch them do so badly. I just hope things get better sooner rather than later. The signs are there that we might be able to play some decent football and win some much needed games but let's hope that it actually clicks and don't just remain as signs.

Reina has been a very good player for Liverpool for many years now but if the club does decide to replace him, I hope they replace him with a good keeper with potential such as Marc-Andre ter Stegen. He seems like he can become a top keeper in the future.

Woah... Really heated debates going on. XD While it was a bad night for Liverpool and obviously all of us fans are upset with the way the game went on but I say just stop the mocking because I think there's enough of that currently with the whole MU and Liverpool fans in UK singing songs and chants.

Let's talk about the way the team and players played yesterday shall we? I think Liverpool was brilliant despite going down to 10 men and maybe this could be a blessing in disguise. Maybe the players and Rodgers can be proud and continue to build on this spirit knowing that we still palyed well despite going down 10 men.

Let's hope we can start winning soon. Desperately need it.

Ok, I suggest you stop replying already. Clearly this has sparked some really intense arguments here. I believe you've made your point and said whatever you initially came here to say. Maybe you're right or maybe you're wrong but it really doesn't matter anymore because this is getting way overboard and I believe that there are some (myself included) who would like to just talk about our club and football and not debate about who said what wrong.

If you keep talking about honour then I suggest you do the "honourable" thing and just leave well enough alone. Everyone has read what you have to say and really there's no need for you to reply anymore. It's just the internet and maybe you should go do something better and leave us Liverpool fans to ourselves.

How's that sound? Take it or leave it don't matter, just my opinion on this. Everyone let's just move on.

Rivals or not, maybe you should just stop? I don't really care who you support because to me this is just getting out of hand and gone on long enough. I'm not just directing this to you as mentioned in my previous post that maybe everyone should just move on.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone and I commend the spirit that everyone has to defend their opinions but perhaps it is for the best that we all just move on. Liverpool fans really defended their opinions and so did you and initially it was fine cause a little debate isn't bad but now this thread is just filled with arguments between you and other fans.

Obviously no one can force you to stop but I have to ask, aren't you tired of fighting here? Hahaha...

Once again, let's just all move on.

This post has been edited by keith.hmc: Sep 24 2012, 08:45 PM

Yes! Finally, we can resume talking football! XD

Yea, apparently out till January 2013. Shit man, as it is we have such a small squad and now more injuries. Really a nervous time to be a Liverpool fan but I guess it also brings some colour to our lives. XD

Couldn't agree with you more.

Yea man, he and Skrtel are just so good together. Tough season ahead.

Eh, Borini can play? I thought he had a swollen ankle from the weekend? Sorry, was busy with work and didn't have time to check for updates on his injury.