Yeah. I will carry a med book with me and take my time seeking clarifications as I don't get such opportunity normally paying RM150 for abt 5 minutes of examination. I am more lucky as I charge no less than RM400 per hour on special assignment.

Practicing doctors should not paint a doom and gloom picture for young and aspiring doctors. A competent doctor or for that matter, any other professional will still have a comfortable life.
I have looked at various financials of specialists and GPs and almost all of them are earning amounts comparable to other professions. An ordinary GP friend of mine has managed to sent 3 kids to oz for education and acquire several properties including some in kl. Surely he is above poverty line though he may not fall into that category for a luxurious living.
Agreed that the good old days are over but surely earnings of RM30k to 50k a month is comfortable. And since the passion is helping ppl, is it not rewarding.
And surely, there are many good things to pass on to aspiring doctors rather than constant doom before they even started.
Paga's blog is good for knowledge but I supported the commenter that blasted the senior doctors for not sharing their experiences but making things difficult for the HO and the MOs.

that gp will presumably be seeing more than 600 patients a month......

many new gp clinics do not....

it is important to make potential students get a reality check....they see what you see now....but reality will be different in the immediate future...

what you see now is conditions when there was <1000 new doctors a year....if they have sent children overseas, they are in their 50's, and graduated ~30 years ago.....

we don't know how conditions will be in the future when there will be 6-7000 new doctors a year.....but it is not difficult to guess.....just talk to any gp who opened clinic within the last 2 years....instead of looking at people who did 30 years ago...

To me, any GP who sets up clinic in the last two years would be drawing much less than their last posting. This applies to all professions. You need 10 to 15 years to establish yourself and earn the average income of the profession.
Of course, if you have good soft skills and networking and also better management skills, you will do much better.
Generation Y is a completely different breed from us who are baby boomers or the traditional type and let us not discourage them but inspire them. Continuing studies are being done to extract the best out of them.

It's good to encourage within the boundaries of new realities, or it will aggravate even further the "now everyone can be a doctor" mentality.

I am more positive on the younger generation and really impressed with some of their business models which surprises dominant players in the respective industries. We can argue to say that the medical profession is an entirely different matter but let them slug it out for the betterment of the profession.
On another note, it was pointed out that there are many unemployed nurses now but Sunway medical centre commented sometime back that when interviews were held to boost recruitment, many were found to be unemployable. So, I still maintain that competent professionals do have a place.

Yeah. I agree with you as well. I think Pagalavan's blog is a bit negative. It frightens people away when the reality is all the industries are getting competitive. You will hear business people saying: "Oh it was easier to make money last time." But all the industries are changing and the medical field is no exception as well. I agree that
there are going to many doctors in Malaysia in the future, but I believe that the competent ones will still earn a comfortable living. I think many people are frustrated that many medical schools in Malaysia are accepting students who are way below average. But to be honest, a person with let's say AAB, having scored 78 for his B. I am sure medical schools in UK or Australia would MOST LIKELY reject him. But can we conclude that he would not be a competent doctor? I think in countries like UK or Australia, one screwed-up result and your dream of becoming a doctor is gone unless you do a postgraduate. In every kind of industry, you screw up once, you can still try again. But I think for medical, they seem to be less forgiving, and I think it does not make sense. Andy Murray recently won his first grand slam after so many attempts. Some people are late boomers, they mature later and they tend to do better as they age. But sorry, in UK if you got ABB/AAB for your A-Level, say bye bye to medicine.

Let's hope after a natural "sift", we will get all competent doctors. Need to be mindful though a lot of times, doctors especially surgeons work as a team, and if for example, you get an excellent surgeon with a mediocre anaesthetist, I think it will be frustrating all around. I know there are some surgeons who prefer to work in the same "team" all the time.

No it's not fair to judge so prematurely. But because the nature of this career/course, they have to be strict on requirements. That's the fairest way to judge. It's not right to say that it is unjust that someone didn't get to do med because he/she screwed up just 1 subject. In real life, if you screw up a dosage, or failed to do ONE thing, like charting prophylaxis ABx, the patient might die. I don't know how do you feel about the responsibility of being a doctor, but for me, it is pretty scary. You hold in your hands, someone's life. One missed info in history can mean life or death, a second of blank mind can kill a patient. Before I entered med, I thought I understood. But I was wrong, it is far FAR different from what I imagined.

So, back to the point. Why bother setting a high bar for med course?

Using Andy Murray's example, I suppose one can try every year till one succeeds to get into medical school, but see, Andy Murray turned pro way before his win at Wimbledon, and already had numerous sponsorships supporting him financially. But hey, if the passion is there, what's to stop one from graduating from med school at 30/40 years old huh?

I think limeuu has explained why a gazillion times in this and other related thread, and every few months, I notice the same related question/issue is posed, yet again.

How are you doing, J?

I'm good survived a long rotation which I didn't quite like. But am thankful that I get to learn those skills/knowledge.

I just checked UTAS website. Apparently it's 49.7K$ for 2013. I thought it was around the 43-44k range. It's getting more and more pricey to study here hey.

I would say that AAB or ABB does not deserve a place in UK for a fact that there are just too many with better results. A* is above 90 marks so deserving candidates should achieve that even though one question may get screwed. If its 95 marks or higher, to score consistently may be difficult but above 90 should be fair. Anyway conditional entry now requires just 1 or 2 A* but i think this is normally issued on the basis that the forecast is at least 2A*.
On the local front, as long as they meet the basic requirements, let them do it. Whether they can survive or not is up to them with their level if competency. Those with strong networking but lacking in quality can still make it by having a partnership or something similar to Alibaba. Many professions are working along this line and medical profession is no exception.

2012 was the last year with capped fees....

fees jumped 21% this year.....the total is estimated to be aud265k....with rising fees each year....

that is not correct.....

conditional offers are made on a*aa for the majority of med schools, with some still offering aaa........

and they are issued based on the personal statement, ukcat/bmat results and interview.....the forecast plays very little part....at best, it helps secure an interview....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 26 2013, 08:20 PM

But as far as I know, most medical schools in UK do not accept students who retake their A-Levels. They only take in students who did well at the first attempt.

that is correct.....however, if you first do a bachelor's degree and then apply for a graduate entry place (quite a few med schools have this pathway, eg warwick, nottingham derby graduate school etc) you will still be considered...

there are enough students who can clear that high bar.....no need to bother with those who can't....

the strongest determinant of a competent doctor is still academic prowess.....all the med schools need to do is find a way to sift out the ethical/compassionate ones from that group.....

For the UK locals, I know they can re-apply the following year, if they fail to secure a place the first time.

LOL...you mean get a "low quality" partner with strong ties to corporations, and use him/her to get on the panel? Needless to say, LQ partner will have fancy clinic, but will actually in fact see little patients, but is on a fancy profit sharing scheme. Lembu punya susu, sapi dapat nama...that's so old school already!

This post has been edited by podrunner: Aug 26 2013, 08:53 PM