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 GENNEVA MALAYSIA, some facts.., READ and UNDERSTAND

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Jollybee
post Oct 7 2012, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(celicaizpower @ Oct 3 2012, 11:28 AM)
I give you another live example, how can Habib Jewel, Poh Kong and whatever gold selling companies give you 70% discount during sales period? if their cost is high?
Bro, spot gold price and retail gold price got difference. Spot gold is the exact market rate without getting the real gold. Retail price is inclusive of currency exchange, manufacturing, security, transportation and etc charges (that I dunno of) included in so it is different all together.
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Spot price depends on who are you talking to. If you are talking to a jeweler, he would tell you that your gold spot price is the Retail price set by the Malaysian association.

If you are talking to a commodity trader, the gold spot price is the real-time gold price trading at a particular mercantile exchange. For example, US - Chicago Mercantile Exchange or New York Mercantile Exchange, Japan - Osaka Mercantile Exchange or Singapore - Singapore Mercatile Exchange.

If you are talking to a banker, the gold spot price is the previous day closing price for gold trading in US, most likely Chicago Merchantiile Exchange.

This post has been edited by Jollybee: Oct 7 2012, 12:45 AM
doraemonkiller
post Oct 7 2012, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(celicaizpower @ Oct 3 2012, 11:28 AM)

I give you another live example, how can Habib Jewel, Poh Kong and whatever gold selling companies give you 70% discount during sales period? if their cost is high?
Bro, spot gold price and retail gold price got difference. Spot gold is the exact market rate without getting the real gold. Retail price is inclusive of currency exchange, manufacturing, security, transportation and etc charges (that I dunno of) included in so it is different all together.


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70% discount sales does not apply on gold... This apply on precious stone jewellery.
Why Genneva supporters keep giving the wrong info. Why keep bullshit!~

simonlai61
post Oct 7 2012, 01:19 AM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Oct 7 2012, 01:02 AM)
70% discount sales does not apply on gold... This apply on precious stone jewellery.
Why Genneva supporters keep giving the wrong info. Why keep bullshit!~
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If they admit, means they are victim lor...sure they wont admit la...
aladdin
post Oct 7 2012, 01:34 AM

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I am wonder how much Genneva needs to pay off to these "investors". How many billions involves so far


terry8
post Oct 7 2012, 02:31 AM

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The Genneva Malaysia Supporters deleted all my comments even the one that advise them to appoint a separate lawyer from Genneva's lawyer to protect themselves ie the buyers.
I learnt a very important thing in this saga. Sometimes people like to live in darkness and do not want the light because the light will expose their misdeeds.
In the end the right will always be right and the wrong will always be wrong. As the Bible says " A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and neither a bad tree can bear good fruit"
I pray and hope that especially the older folks and single parents, those who really need their money will get back as much as possible of their capital. To those CONsultants who know deep in their hearts something is not right are part of those guilty of robbing these people.
Goodnight ..... I need to go back to all my work which is waiting and has been neglected these 2 days


Added on October 7, 2012, 2:33 am
QUOTE(aladdin @ Oct 7 2012, 01:34 AM)
I am wonder how much Genneva needs to pay off to these "investors". How many billions involves so far
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I am willing to take a guess that their bank account plus assets are less than their liabilities eg what they owe the investors

This post has been edited by terry8: Oct 7 2012, 02:33 AM
virgochew82
post Oct 7 2012, 04:39 AM

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QUOTE(terry8 @ Oct 6 2012, 01:11 AM)
This was a comment made by Richard Chew on the Genneva Support group Facebook site which got deleted within a few minutes. I like to share his comment because I found that he explained the whole Scam very well.

"I can understand all the frustration that is being aired here. And it appears Genneva has been deliverying what they promised but forced to freeze their activities. .

However let me explain my view on the technical flaw in this scheme that warrants BNM to take such drastic action. My intention of giving my view is to help enlightened and hopefully will help many here to ask the right questions and direct it to the right party.

In any trading; there must be willing buyer & seller for a transaction to take place at a price agreeable by both parties. The seller will profit from the transaction and the buyer will receive the goods / service. Very clear cut exchange.

However in this scheme, technically the seller do not 'realized' its profit yet from the transaction because there is a contractual obligation that a monthly 'gift' of 2-3% is given to the buyer and the buyer has the option to sell back the gold at the original purchased price. In this aspect, the seller's obligations to the buyer becomes a Liability to the seller. To put it in another words, it is the buyer that will receive the profits rather than the seller in this transaction scheme.

Therefore technically this transaction scheme cannot be deemed as trading because the seller doesn't profit from the goods sold. If it is not trading then where does this lead to?

My next statement may sound absurd and may anger many of you here but please bear with me. My intention is to explain so we can have better judgement & help us understand why Bank Negara has to step in and take drastic measure.

I am saying this scheme is not trading because it is more inclined to money lending business which must be regulated under our Malaysia law. Yes, I just said it; this Genneva scheme is basically a money lending scheme misrepresented as gold trading scheme.

How can this be? You may say there is a sales purchase agreement and gold transacted then how can this be money lending? If its money lending scheme then who is lending to who?

In this scheme, you are the lender. Genneva is the borrower. You bear the financial risk, in return Genneva pays you the monthly interest as we know it as Hibah. At the end of the loan contract, Genneva returns the money to you. During the contract, you keep the gold bar as your collateral if in the event Genneva fails to pay; you don't loose the full amount lent to Genneva.

If the deal is purely buy & sell with no contractual obligation; then it is clear curlt trading because seller profits and buyer keep the goods. But if there is a contractual obligations for monthly interest & buy back then it is surely money lending, the gold serves as the collateral; the lender profits and the borrower bears the liability.

This issuance of collateral gold is somewhat similar to companies issuing bonds to raise fund from the public. Bonds are meticulously regulated by Securities Commission & Bank Negara because it has to be secured against the company assets such as properties and etc.

The problem with Genneva is that they are not regulated and when they have more buyers (lenders) they are actually increasing the liabilities of the company while profit is not realized yet.

For a typical trading company, the more customers; the more goods trade out, the more profits realized. Clear cut profit realization. For example RM 1 billion of gold sold would generate certain amount of profit based on the profit margin.

However Genneva's scheme, the more gold sold the more liability it creates for the company because of the obligations to buy back and pay the monthly gift. Therefore Bank Negara had to step in to ensure things are in order and to prevent it to get out of control. A small complaint would suffice to fuel the urgency for drastic action.

It is harsh but neccesary."
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lalala_lalala
post Oct 7 2012, 08:29 AM

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Just want to ask if dont mind...sorry if stupid question.

Can u sell your Genneva Malaysia physical gold bar at any gold shop habib, poh kong etc?

based on current rate is around RM174/gram

How much will they willing to pay per gram?

if can, i wanna sell mine too but not sure can coz i bought in Dubai last 2010. it's a PAMP Assayer


KamikazePg
post Oct 7 2012, 08:32 AM

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I found a Facebook page for anti-genneva comments...
u guys can go there to post...

It is called Enti Genneva
doraemonkiller
post Oct 7 2012, 08:37 AM

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QUOTE(terry8 @ Oct 7 2012, 02:31 AM)
The Genneva Malaysia Supporters deleted all my comments even the one that advise them to appoint a separate lawyer from Genneva's lawyer to protect themselves ie the buyers.
I learnt a very important thing in this saga. Sometimes people like to live in darkness and do not want the light because the light will expose their misdeeds.
In the end the right will always be right and the wrong will always be wrong. As the Bible says " A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and neither a bad tree can bear good fruit"
I pray and hope that especially the older folks and single parents, those who really need their money will get back as much as possible of their capital. To those CONsultants who know deep in their hearts something is not right are part of those guilty of robbing these people.
Goodnight ..... I need to go back to all my work which is waiting and has been neglected these 2 days


Added on October 7, 2012, 2:33 am
I am willing to take a guess that their bank account plus assets are less than their liabilities eg what they owe the investors
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Coz the management do not want to get sue and bear all the responsibilities.
SUSsoundsyst64
post Oct 7 2012, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(lalala_lalala @ Oct 7 2012, 08:29 AM)
Just want to ask if dont mind...sorry if stupid question.

Can u sell your Genneva Malaysia physical gold bar at any gold shop habib, poh kong etc?

based on current rate is around RM174/gram

How much will they willing to pay per gram?

if can, i wanna sell mine too but not sure can coz i bought in Dubai last 2010. it's a PAMP Assayer
*
It is better to melt it into normal gold bar and keep it.
Sell it if you need money urgently.
lalala_lalala
post Oct 7 2012, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(soundsyst64 @ Oct 7 2012, 08:49 AM)
It is better to melt it into normal gold bar and keep it.
Sell it if you need money urgently.
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now confuse d...is there any diff if just sell like that? with the original PAMP packaging?

How is the packaging done for the gold bar from Geneva Malaysia? similar to PAMP?


jmunchar
post Oct 7 2012, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(lalala_lalala @ Oct 7 2012, 09:11 AM)
now confuse d...is there any diff if just sell like that? with the original PAMP packaging?

How is the packaging done for the gold bar from Geneva Malaysia? similar to PAMP?
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If it is a PAMP SUISSE gold bar then most gold shop will accept it as it is a renown brand. Pm me and give the details. Will see if i can help out.
Even if Geneva gold bar, i may be willing to buy it off ur hand.
ben83
post Oct 7 2012, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(doraemonkiller @ Oct 7 2012, 08:37 AM)
Coz the management do not want to get sue and bear all the responsibilities.
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For all we know Genneva Malaysia Supporters page created by Genneva management themselves
kasimura
post Oct 7 2012, 10:15 AM

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It's unfortunate that BNM is targeting gold traders. The implication of these raids is that BNM /govt can just practically kill your business by just suspecting you of money-laundering. Even if the suspicion turns out to be unfounded on investigation. No trading business is safe! The thing about Anti-Money Laundering Act is that the assets of the company would be seized if found guilty. What a treasure trove for BN war chest in the coming general election! Could this be the business version of the "Sodok Me" case? This is even better because there's real gold bars and not that kind of "gold bars", you know what I mean! brows.gif

If these gold trading companies are running a scam, the police (Commercial Crime Unit) would be the ones raiding for fraud. The fact that these companies have been running for so many years only implies that they are running legitimate businesses. Also after the destruction of Genneva version 1 caused by BNM raid, Genneva version 2 (Genneva Malaysia) was set up using the same modus operandi and yet no action by police for fraud. So are these gold trading companies running fraudulent businesses? The present (and past) BNM raids are all about money-laundering and deposit-taking offences, nothing about business fraud. I know some of you must be opining that our police are inept and only good at harassing Opposition members and their supporters but that is beside the point.

The affected buyers are the ones crying about their lost of income for their livelihood and children's education CAUSED BY THE BNM RAIDS AND NOT ABOUT THESE COMPANIES SCAMMING THEM. Many people lost their investments, like one angry forumer here whose sister is still waiting for her money after Genneva v. 1 was raided. Would she and others have lost heir investments had BNM not raided and froze everything? Genneva v. 2 would have learnt after all they are the same people(?) But I can't be sure though. I know of some of these companies took great pains to comply with whatever laws, and conditions set by govt agencies like SSM and BNM, liasing with them, yet are still raided. You just wonder if it is political or more than just "protecting consumers"!

The ultimate losers are the ordinary folks. These are the people who try to make extra money legally through gold trading when opportunities are closing at every turn if you are not well-connected. And the well-connected investors probably got early warning before the raid! IF BNM/GOVT IS HONEST ABOUT "PROTECTING CONSUMERS" THEN BNM SHOULD QUICKLY SEPARATE OUT WHAT ASSETS BELONG TO THESE COMPANIES AND WHAT BELONG TO THE BUYERS AND RETURN THE BUYERS' INVESTMENTS AND ONLY FREEZE COMPANY ASSETS. But then that is like "kucing bertanduk" lah! So again the big losers are the ordinary rakyat....as usual! My sympathy to them. If they are holding the gold, my advice to them is not to sell them to quickly because the price of gold is expected to appreciate significantly in the next few years.


EddyLB
post Oct 7 2012, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(kasimura @ Oct 7 2012, 10:15 AM)
It's unfortunate that BNM is targeting gold traders. The implication of these raids is that BNM /govt can just practically kill your business by just suspecting you of money-laundering. Even if the suspicion turns out to be unfounded on investigation. No trading business is safe! The thing about Anti-Money Laundering Act is that the assets of the company would be seized if found guilty. What a treasure trove for BN war chest in the coming general election! Could this be the business version of the "Sodok Me" case? This is even better because there's real gold bars and not that kind of "gold bars", you know what I mean!  brows.gif

If these gold trading companies are running a scam, the police (Commercial Crime Unit) would be the ones raiding for fraud. The fact that these companies have been running for so many years only implies that they are running legitimate businesses. Also after the destruction of Genneva version 1 caused by BNM raid, Genneva version 2 (Genneva Malaysia) was set up using the same modus operandi and yet no action by police for fraud. So are these gold trading companies running fraudulent businesses? The present (and past) BNM raids are all about money-laundering and deposit-taking offences, nothing about business fraud. I know some of you must be opining that our police are inept and only good at harassing Opposition members and their supporters but that is beside the point.

The affected buyers are the ones crying about their lost of income for their livelihood and children's education CAUSED BY THE BNM RAIDS AND NOT ABOUT THESE COMPANIES SCAMMING THEM. Many people lost their investments, like one angry forumer here whose sister is still waiting for her money after Genneva v. 1 was raided. Would she and others have lost heir investments had BNM not raided and froze everything? Genneva v. 2 would have learnt after all they are the same people(?) But I can't be sure though. I know of some of these companies took great pains to comply with whatever laws, and conditions set by govt agencies like SSM and BNM, liasing with them, yet are still raided. You just wonder if it is political or more than just "protecting consumers"!

The ultimate losers are the ordinary folks[cool.gif. These are the people who try to make extra money legally through gold trading when opportunities are closing at every turn if you are not well-connected. And the well-connected investors probably got early warning before the raid! IF BNM/GOVT IS HONEST ABOUT "PROTECTING CONSUMERS" THEN BNM SHOULD QUICKLY SEPARATE OUT WHAT ASSETS BELONG TO THESE COMPANIES AND WHAT BELONG TO THE BUYERS AND RETURN THE BUYERS' INVESTMENTS AND ONLY FREEZE COMPANY ASSETS. But then that is like "kucing bertanduk" lah! So again the big losers are the ordinary rakyat....as usual! My sympathy to them. If they are holding the gold, my advice to them is not to sell them to quickly because the price of gold is expected to appreciate significantly in the next few years.
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Bro, you are absolutely right. The aunties and uncles were the real victims. Now that BNM has raided. The ball is in their courts. They will need to prove that Genneva is a ponzi scheme, or they have contravened the law. Pressure should be put to them to speed up their investigation and prove to the victims who is the real culprits

If they take any longer, untoward incidents may happen. I can imagine some of the aunties and uncles' life time savings are on the line. So, we are talking about human lifes here if BNM still delays.

Hope BNM can gather enough evidence soon and prosecute the real culprits thumbup.gif
KamikazePg
post Oct 7 2012, 10:28 AM

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No need to pity all the CON-sultans...
They were earning RM30-40k per month easily...even better than a GM's salary. If any karma comes to them, it is well-deserved.

The only pity is the old folks who got duped into this believing it is all legit.
Especially. when the CON-sultans were using pictures of Dr. M and Rosmah to convince the buyers.
SUSjasonhanjk
post Oct 7 2012, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(kasimura @ Oct 7 2012, 10:15 AM)
The ultimate losers are the ordinary folks. These are the people who try to make extra money legally through gold trading when opportunities are closing at every turn if you are not well-connected. And the well-connected investors probably got early warning before the raid! IF BNM/GOVT IS HONEST ABOUT "PROTECTING CONSUMERS" THEN BNM SHOULD QUICKLY SEPARATE OUT WHAT ASSETS BELONG TO THESE COMPANIES AND WHAT BELONG TO THE BUYERS AND RETURN THE BUYERS' INVESTMENTS AND ONLY FREEZE COMPANY ASSETS. But then that is like "kucing bertanduk" lah! So again the big losers are the ordinary rakyat....as usual! My sympathy to them. If they are holding the gold, my advice to them is not to sell them to quickly because the price of gold is expected to appreciate significantly in the next few years.
*
If the ponzi scheme is true, then there will be nothing left. Most will be earn by the pioneers.


Added on October 7, 2012, 10:33 am
QUOTE(terry8 @ Oct 7 2012, 02:31 AM)
The Genneva Malaysia Supporters deleted all my comments even the one that advise them to appoint a separate lawyer from Genneva's lawyer to protect themselves ie the buyers.
I learnt a very important thing in this saga. Sometimes people like to live in darkness and do not want the light because the light will expose their misdeeds.
In the end the right will always be right and the wrong will always be wrong. As the Bible says " A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and neither a bad tree can bear good fruit"
I pray and hope that especially the older folks and single parents, those who really need their money will get back as much as possible of their capital. To those CONsultants who know deep in their hearts something is not right are part of those guilty of robbing these people.
Goodnight ..... I need to go back to all my work which is waiting and has been neglected these 2 days


Added on October 7, 2012, 2:33 am
I am willing to take a guess that their bank account plus assets are less than their liabilities eg what they owe the investors
*
Go to Bank Negara facebook page. i go there disturb them. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by jasonhanjk: Oct 7 2012, 10:33 AM
caspertan
post Oct 7 2012, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(KamikazePg @ Oct 7 2012, 10:28 AM)
No need to pity all the CON-sultans...
They were earning RM30-40k per month easily...even better than a GM's salary. If any karma comes to them, it is well-deserved.

The only pity is the old folks who got duped into this believing it is all legit.
Especially. when the CON-sultans were using pictures of Dr. M and Rosmah to convince the buyers.
*
Yes!! Totally agree. But I must say the old folks especially who are professionals lik Docs, Accountants etc. I think they really deserve a bit of lesson. Greed is bad. I thought they should understand there's no free lunch in the world.

And what's more important is that they still are convinced by Dr.M and Mrs. R pictures?? rclxub.gif Both of them have bad reputations already. I can't believe they still fall for that scheme.

I don't think they will ever get back the investments. First, get conned by Company G, then BNM raided the Company, investigations going on and on. Who knows what will happen to the Golds. I seriously doubt the outcome of getting it back. Our government and police has "splendid" reputation in these cases. Gold turns out to be fake when the owners are to receive it. whistling.gif
smartinvestor01
post Oct 7 2012, 10:59 AM

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I believe seldom complaints arise for the genneva investors is because they have not sell their gold bar to the genneva company yet..

According to certain newspaper reports, a lot of complaints arise from the investors who handed over their gold, and not received their money back..

Therefore, as long as they dont sell the gold, the issues will not be discovered..

Just me opinion, what do you guys think..

No offense to those genneva supporters out there, i am just wondering..
mydrm12345
post Oct 7 2012, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(smartinvestor01 @ Oct 7 2012, 10:59 AM)
I believe seldom complaints arise for the genneva investors is because they have not sell their gold bar to the genneva company yet..

According to certain newspaper reports, a lot of complaints arise from the investors who handed over their gold, and not received their money back..

Therefore, as long as they dont sell the gold, the issues will not be discovered..

Just me opinion, what do you guys think..

No offense to those genneva supporters out there, i am just wondering..
*
My cousin joined Genneva and ask my mother join, it means they can buy can't sell forever back to Genneva? cry.gif

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