Expecting launch day : End of March
Expecting price : 65k-75k
Name : P***** but not end with A

Isn't EuroNCAP testing almost the same as ANCAP...? ASEAN NCAP I thought is also supposed to be similar.

Yes, the Wira performed really bad, at least the Arena did. I wonder how the real Wira would perform... perhaps a little bit better, but not much for sure. Don't even dream of the old Saga performing better than that. Or the Viva for that matter. The Myvi is actually a pretty safe car in European spec (I think 4 stars), but I don't trust Toyota, they may use lower quality materials, are less strict during manufacturing, use thinner materials, leave away strengthening materials and clearly they have removed some of the safety features.

The Brilliance BS6 was initially tested to have 1 star. Half a year later it was tested again, after Brilliance has modified the car a bit (only internally), then it achieved 3 stars. The choice of materials etc. is extremely important, and it is hard to see the differences, the cars can look identical, be identically spec'ed but perform entirely different. But Perodua even chose to remove the safety features... same with Toyota Vios etc.

@mat79: Cabriolets are sometimes also subjected to roll over tests, not by EuroNCAP but by others. That's why the Golf III cabriolet had this funny looking handle. Some cars have to steel bars behind the headrest, or some system that shoots out when it senses that you are going to need it. Older cabrios didn't have those features --> dangerous. But new ones should be more or less fine I think. Ok, I have just watched this video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXVWNEzjcnM They say it's so so. The Peugeot isn't horrible in the back, but the front is a bit problematic. The BMW did okay'ish, the Citroen didn't (but that's a weird cabrio... just look at it, you can turn it into a "targa" or a normal car, more or less). Those are relatively affordable/small cabrios. Main problem was that the seatbelt didn't manage to keep the passengers inside the car as the height couldn't be adjusted properly. I think if you go for a big cabrio it should be somewhat safe, but of course the same car with a proper roof should perform better.
If I'd drive a cabrio, it should be this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGRVgezAaGc Well, while it was still in good condition.

I agree that EuroNCAP doesn't test enough, but it's better than nothing. Some critics say that manufacturers sacrifice the outcomes of other crashes though so that it performs better in EuroNCAP. Still, better than no test. Btw., Mercedes claims that they have done like 200 crash tests hile developing the new B class.

I was of the impression that the star rating can only be downgraded by a lack of features, but not upgraded. I haven't checked though. For example nowadays it is mandatory to have ESP, otherwise you won't get 5 stars, regardless of how well the car actually performed. That the Chery gets 3 stars and the Saga also may have to do with saying 4 to 10 out of 16 means 3 stars, 11 to 14 4 stars and so on (but those are ANCAP ratings, I really don't know anything about them other than that it should be quite similar). While the way the car looks like is important, it is also important what forces were put on what area of the body. No way to see that by watching the crash, however the EuroNCAP website gives many more details on the crash, things that are noteworth as well as the simplified measurements that the dummies have recorded, where injuries were to be expected etc.

Obviously a car that also protects you in the case of a side impact should be rated better overall too compared to one that is only safe in a head on colision, don't you agree?

@MeToo: My mum reported about her brothers car... new, Japanese, probably in the 60s or 70s? He was a bit mad because there was some problem, so he kicked it. Left a big dent. Kick a new Saga, I don't think it will dent that easily.

AFAIK Americans don't like seatbelts either, at least they have to run campaigns to make people wear them, Germans are usually much more obedient.

You can worry about safety and be poor. We are not very rich, but we tried to find the safest (second hand) car that fits the budget and requirements. And I make sure everyone wears their seatbelt. And some rich ones don't care either... I think it's those who believe in fate (for whatever reason) who are risking their lives. Some uncles say "you always care about safety of the car, but no matter what, if it is your fate to die, you'll die". It is ok when you can't afford it. But when you just don't do it because you are stingy...

Normally Mercs should have that beeper, maybe he removed it? Our Renault unfortunately only has a warning light, and only for the driver seat. I wish it had a very annoying beeper for all seats... like fire alarm. Goes of as soon as you're moving. People that don't wear their seatbelt deserve to die... they wish to anyway, so their wish should be granted.

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Added on March 1, 2012, 8:54 pmIn that case it can make sense, but they shouldn't make everyone pay for it. Perhaps Yes is sponsoring the thing for free in order to get more customers...?

Just plug in the phone into a car charger

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Mar 1 2012, 08:54 PM

Thxs... U have any idea of the initial batch waiting period?

launching mid of march
if not wrong 1-2 month i read somewhere
but pre-book it now should get it faster

Btw. (a bit off topic), the Saga did 3 stars in ANCAP, the Exora is said to get 4, right? Well, I've just found the results of the Toyota Avanza. C-NCAP tested it... 3 stars. http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2306 And that is C-NCAP, which tests at 56 km/h only (instead of 64), and which is generally less strict. The Lotus L3 (Proton Gen-2) also got 3 stars. 3 stars is what Chinese cars get, good ones from China get 4 or 5.

The P3-21A can only do better than that.

china ncap is kinda easy to get star
china car..they only copy the design/exterior..they never copy whats inside = engine, chassis..etc etc
gen-2, waja..all pass car...not very sure what material their body are made of
newer gen proton car starting from saga, exora and this p3-21a all using HTS for body
and since this p3-21a is equipped with so many features...abs, ebd, esp, etc etc....with 4-6 airbags
5 stars is easily reached

Yeah, still the Avanza only got 3 stars. I doubt Toyota has modified it throughoutly for the facelift, otherwise they should have advertised it.

People need to get off that thinking that Proton for sure must be milo tin... they should bring the car to Europe, just to make EuroNCAP test it. And sell it exactly same spec there as here. Then advertise that (and stress that EuroNCAP picks a random car, so no specially prepared one).

The Lotus L3 should be a regular Gen-2, huh? They just changed the name cause Lotus sounds better than Proton. No copy.

And 2 Chinese cars have recently received 4 stars in EuroNCAP. Not too bad for a copy... I think some Chinese manufacturers are working hard on creating more unique cars, that are actually decent. Of course they aren't as cheap as those created in some shed... but just look at handphones. Of course there are hundreds of crappy iPhone fakes etc. from Shenzen, but there is also Meizu and Xiaomi (besides Lenovo, Huawei, ZTE who make legit phones), and both the Meizu and Xiaomi phones seem to be pretty good and high end, using high quality components. Of course they come at a price though, but still cheaper than the established companies. Korean manufacturers (cars and consumer electronics) have went through the same process, and now produce rather decent cars and devices.

hm..YES Huddle...inside the box does not include in car charger...we need to buy it....but for this,dunno la if they include it...for those already have account @ YES ID,u can use this huddle with ur existing ID...if not and if no special package is included,then u might need to subscribe with YES 4G...check their website...they got prepaid and newly launched 'unlimited' postpaid plans....'unlimited' but not really unlimited...still got quota...max quota is 10GB for RM168....

cuz it was influenced last time during TM's era that it is using milo tin...very weak
since saga...all changed to using HTS....can see from the weight as well...its not what ppl call light
but 140KM/H on highway is like no feeling at all
i think if they keep producing cars like these....ppl's view toward proton will change...providing DSZ is still CEO and TM dn't mcm2 sana
what proton left now is the engine only...ppl are waiting for a alittle bit more reliable car = timing chain

not sure abt the lotus L3 though...i think its a rebadge
many is still copy exterior only...like those in top gear...outlook very nice, look like camry
but since inside...ride is bumpy as hell(not very well structured)..i think if crush it,its a done deal as well
china market, very easy.....big car, lots of space inside, well equipped interior/nice interior and most important...CHEAP...thn it will sell
they dn't care abt safety features(which will make it more expensive)

Wat do u guys think about all this NCAP..?

For example, a b segment wt 5 stars... Another 1 a d segment wt 5 stars... Which 1 will be more safe in real life...

All this test is done by mostly the vehicle crash to something solid, by it own momentum... Wat if a d segment crash into the b segment both 5 stars?

I just trying to open the lead for u guys to discuss more detail...

To me, if u r in a small car, no matter how many stars u have, It is still dangerous if someone else bigger crash into u...

AFAIK the test is designed in a way to see how it would be if a car crashes into a car of the same size/weight. So A segment vs A segment, B vs B etc. I think I have read that one can only compare to other cars within like 150 kg.

So yes, if you crash into a 5 star D segment car in a 5 star A segment car, you'll be in some trouble. However it doesn't mean that a big car is always in the better position:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY (old big Volvo against new small Renault)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WMvLxOXcLU&feature=related (C class vs smart)
It would be interesting to find out if 5 stars B segment = 4 stars C segment when they crash, i.e. same level of safety for all the passengers... but I doubt there is such info.

I think size is not that important though, weight is. An S class will kick around the smart (it does when you search for such a crash test on YouTube), so while the super strong structure of the smart will keep up, your body will be slowed down extremely violently (the smart is also kicked back, so even more forces...). On the other hand a properly designed car will also let other, smaller cars survive (it's also not so hard on the driver of the big car). You can see that while the smart hardly gives in (there is no space to give in without hurting the driver) the C class does.

Weight that contribute to momentum n force....

kadajawi,thats why i said earlier,atleast we have something to refer to as euroncap :-). But still wishing that it test more than what they usually do, but then,it incurr cost to them coz they are buying the cars, that is not including cost of maintaining the crash facilities.

Gen2 is from old waja platform which being modified. Atleast it still comply with minimum requirements than old cars in 90's or even 80's especialy the japs or even koreans. But the newer ones are really good,but still depend whether global product or just for asean region. But still understand due to cost constraint. but malaysian still like to buy japs old cars, which quite scarry if you watch youtube when they tested the old one. 4 doors become 2 doors. That happened to older generation of civic, which still many malaysian love it n still on their buying list. I know that the car is good(interm of ownership n performance), but at the same price,u can get new cars even a little bit smaller n less powerful coz for me,safety come first.

But 2000 onwards, i think,it shud be ok lor. But then, please correct me if im wrong, i think avanza is newer than gen2 rite, with toyota brand, i think it supposed to scored well than old waja/gen2 platform, but it doesnt.

Compatibility problem is about big versus small which american insurance institute if i not mistaken test it n yaris vs camry, jazz vs accord, even all cars get 5 stars rating by euroncap, but severe damage to the small one which may result fatality compare to the big ones who only moderate damage.

Thats why i want euroncap to test on that, so that 5 stars will be equally. If not, small 5 stars only maybe 3 or even 1 star when crash with the big one.

The thing i know that the germans actually done that internally so many times. Prtn also i know coz my insiders show me the videos, pictures n some data from idiada n internal test. But it still not the best, but atleast they meet all the minimum requirements of every single test. The best is exora for the moment, but they mentioned, thay managed to make it better in p321a, thanks to dr. Wolfgang Apple from bmw, which really a handyman in p321a project which he personally undertaken n monitoring the development.

The Only thing they say,if prtn doesnt need to price their cars lower than others(of course due to brand image coz who wants to buy prtn at price of japs rite), the could do it better than this. The thing i like is that their spirit, even hated by malaysian(not all), they tried their best within all limitations. When i asked why need to show the crash test video on exora, why need to send to idiada coz malaysian never believed them, so no need to waste money doing the crashtest thinggy. They said, even so, they have to do that coz many malaysian lives depend on them.

They said, due to prtn need to be cheap, some passive safety need to be discard, so,in order to counter back the weakness, they have to make the foundation stronger. Even no airbag,atleast the safety cell is strong. Previously they just rebadged, nothing can do. Then they start learning from waja, yup, for the first time,nothing perfect, they keep improving it, a step at a time.

But then, that were the engineers, but atlast, u know lar, cronies n vendors, make their hardwork to the drain.

For me, prtn is not there yet, but atleast, they are catching up, not that far as before, hopefully oneday,if they can survive, they will be on par or even better. Only time can tell.

If they have to market the price @ 65-75k because of their cost, what do u think their cost vs a golf, civic, altis, n other c segment?

minus the import tax 30%. Excise duty proton also kena tax 75%.

How to pre-book when the car is not even launch yet?

If you are chums with any Proton SA, ask them to pre-book for you right after it's open for pre-book. They will be more than glad to help u

Actually the Gen-2/Persona is just as good as Toyota (Avanza). Still people call Proton milo tin...

http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2392
http://www.c-ncap.org.cn/app/cncap/pzsj.jsp?pzid=2306

All those internal videos, they should be releasing as far as they can. Why not an ad/internet video where they show all the crash tests they have done, over the time (perhaps also highlighting the improvements) to show that they have invested a lot to make the car safe. Mercedes Benz on their website advertises with all the work that has gone into the B class (I know cause I have helped a friend who wasn't sure if he's going to buy it). It certainly impressed me, now I'm kinda interested in the car myself (I would never have expected that...). You are right of course that the actual production of the car will be the problem... everyone trying to safe money/earn more etc.

How do the engineers get the funds to crash lots of prototypes (do you know how many?)? I can't imagine them having all the computers to properly simulate crash tests either, at least not at the level that Mercedes Benz etc. can do it.

I'm surprised that someone as high ranking/important as Wolfgang Epple is now working at Proton. Hope he can do something good there.

Perhaps all those important people at Proton and vendors should only be paid in shares (apart from a minimum that is enough to keep them alive), and only be allowed to trade them in after 5-10 years.

the car doesn't need to launch for u to book 1
last time saga BLM haven't launch..i already booked 1
he even ask us to attend the launch of saga on the branch

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This post has been edited by pocue: Mar 2 2012, 12:59 AM