205/55 R16

depend on type n tyre brand :-). There are many cheaper alternative to rm400++ tyre.

yup,u r correct about chosing pfi rather than gdi. One pf prtn market is indo which still using ron 88 as their main fuel.

Erm,correct me if i'm wrong, i heard that elantra md that arrived here still using pfi, not gdi due to fuel concern. Also read somewhere, gdi still can use lower octane,but in future, have a bit prob, if i not mistaken 50k-80k carbon build up in engine is too high due to using low octane, can cause u to opt for top overhaul which can burn some money. Reliability also a concern. If u look at cfe compression ratio,its really low for modern engine, but due to certain market that used low octane n low grade fuel including malaysia(high octane but low grade,just euro 2), this is essential to ensure the engine when retard its timing to match the fuel,knocking issue is not a problem. And the best part is, u no need high octane fuel to extract all the power.

About the rear,if changing the emblem to toyota@honda, do u think malaysian will think differently?

Peace yo.

the rear is round curving if u have the opportunity to look at it spot on from back live. Erm,just wait for the launch. I think italdesign manage to do some awesome job creating diff perspective from diff angle. Clue, the side lamp containing reversen signal n brake lamp is short when u look directly from back,thats why they put some lamp on the boot.

Ah,better wait for the launch, it just around the corner, than can critisize completely including quality, so we can se this car is it a typical prtn@ a new era prtn car. Remember to test drive it too. Hopefully they also provide iafm+ test drive unit along with cfe, but iafm+ with manual one for test drive.

---

Added on February 26, 2012, 2:12 pmoff course on engine. Its normal practice for all manufacturers. Do u know why? Coz of diff types of transmission used for one engine. If use on wheel, mt iafm+ n cvt iafm+ will have diff pwr n torque on wheel due to transmission pwrloss.

Let say persona iafm. With mitsu 5mt,pwrloss is around 12%. 4 at is around 20%. So, if want to metioned on wheel pwr, need to put to spec for pwr for diff transmission even using the same engine.

Thats why manufacturer prefer to use pwr on engine than on wheel. The graph also will be diff for mt n at n cvt n dsg. Hope u got the idea, we are not talking about ahbeng type dyno. If not, u need to print diff brochure for diff customer if using ahbeng dyno coz trust me, u wont get the same output for the same engine even for the same gbox used. It must have +-.

This post has been edited by mat79: Feb 26 2012, 02:12 PM

i think u r not sa coz if i not mistaken,they are not allow to drive the car. I think u r lucky dude that been selected to view the car( i think it supposed to be next week rite) or u are lucky coz managed to kaw tim with hnt member who test drive the car during testing.

Maybe u can enlighten us where u test the car? And if u share some info,maybe we also can be lucky enough to tahan them at their favourite stop port. If just one of lucky that being selected, i'm really jealous :-), hu...hu...

How it drive?

actually ancap procedures are the same as euroncap. They also take euroncap rating for some all cars for ancap reference.

Being influence by euroncap, many think that it is the ultimate crash testing. They only tests certain crash test only. Only one frontal test impact in euroncap,that is 40% offset. Actually they are more than 5 frontal impact test for crash testing such offset, full frontal impact, wall barrier impact, low barrier impact n high barrier impact(for compatibilty problem between big car vs small), truck or lorry rear end with car frontal,pedestrian crash test n etc.

U can search for other makes showing that and maybe look at exora frontal test,more than 5 sets of test they tested at idiada. Euroncap also doesnt include rear end crash test,bumper impact test, roll over test(maybe coz euro have soft top version of cars) n etc.

But it is a good one coz atleast we as end users have reference for crash testing. It is costly to do all, coz euro ncap only buy cars own their own, only one that they think popular or will be popular,one that caught their attention. For all manufacturers,in europe, they have another body that govern this, so that only those are exceed minimum requirements of safety can be sold in europe,but not euroncap.

Shud see the result of the crash(marks) rather than the star. A car can get same star rating but diff marks in crash test like saga frontal get 9++ for frontal over 16,still get 3 stars, while cherry got only below 5 over 16 for frontal,but also get 3 stars in ancap. Its simply because other passive safety equipments marks add up the marks for star rating. While saga tested only equip with only dual airbags,while cherry also have dual airbags,but also abs,ebd n isofix.

U can also look for forte n kia rondo which get 4 stars. Frontal marks for rondo also near the same as saga, but get 4 stars due to additional 2 more airbags n equipments including seatbelt buzzer n reminder.

If u look at 5 stars euroncap yaris vs 5 stars euroncap camry, 5 stars jazz/fit vs 5 stars accord, watch it in youtube,than u know how important to test out whether it has compatibility problem or not, or the end result will be catastrophy even with 5 stars to smaller cars versus big cars.

If there is a special body govern that can coverup all the test,then, we can say that the car is really safe. But then, we only have to accept euroncap or other ncap result even still have validity problems on certain areas.

Do u think that open top car@soft top car is safe for occupant if test through roll over test?

yup,jumback is pretty bad. But then,old mitsu chasis isnt that good at all for current standard. Its mitsu then milo then, but thats the old one. Current mitsu is good :-)

ha..ha..goodone, but then, is it enough to cushion out the impact? Just curious, I dunno but I think if couple with helmet,it get the job done, but nobody cares to wear helmet driving soft top n not all are design like that. But atlast,its a beemer rite, supposed to be good n safe.

Nevertheless,hope fully it also employ when the roof on(soft top) without failure, if not, i think its severe. Do u think if prtn done that, will it be questioned by people?

---

Added on March 1, 2012, 7:47 pmbut if malaysian driving it, it will be dangerous because less people care on wearing seatbelt. Others, i think not much a problem, dunno about american though.

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 1 2012, 07:47 PM

kadajawi,thats why i said earlier,atleast we have something to refer to as euroncap :-). But still wishing that it test more than what they usually do, but then,it incurr cost to them coz they are buying the cars, that is not including cost of maintaining the crash facilities.

Gen2 is from old waja platform which being modified. Atleast it still comply with minimum requirements than old cars in 90's or even 80's especialy the japs or even koreans. But the newer ones are really good,but still depend whether global product or just for asean region. But still understand due to cost constraint. but malaysian still like to buy japs old cars, which quite scarry if you watch youtube when they tested the old one. 4 doors become 2 doors. That happened to older generation of civic, which still many malaysian love it n still on their buying list. I know that the car is good(interm of ownership n performance), but at the same price,u can get new cars even a little bit smaller n less powerful coz for me,safety come first.

But 2000 onwards, i think,it shud be ok lor. But then, please correct me if im wrong, i think avanza is newer than gen2 rite, with toyota brand, i think it supposed to scored well than old waja/gen2 platform, but it doesnt.

Compatibility problem is about big versus small which american insurance institute if i not mistaken test it n yaris vs camry, jazz vs accord, even all cars get 5 stars rating by euroncap, but severe damage to the small one which may result fatality compare to the big ones who only moderate damage.

Thats why i want euroncap to test on that, so that 5 stars will be equally. If not, small 5 stars only maybe 3 or even 1 star when crash with the big one.

The thing i know that the germans actually done that internally so many times. Prtn also i know coz my insiders show me the videos, pictures n some data from idiada n internal test. But it still not the best, but atleast they meet all the minimum requirements of every single test. The best is exora for the moment, but they mentioned, thay managed to make it better in p321a, thanks to dr. Wolfgang Apple from bmw, which really a handyman in p321a project which he personally undertaken n monitoring the development.

The Only thing they say,if prtn doesnt need to price their cars lower than others(of course due to brand image coz who wants to buy prtn at price of japs rite), the could do it better than this. The thing i like is that their spirit, even hated by malaysian(not all), they tried their best within all limitations. When i asked why need to show the crash test video on exora, why need to send to idiada coz malaysian never believed them, so no need to waste money doing the crashtest thinggy. They said, even so, they have to do that coz many malaysian lives depend on them.

They said, due to prtn need to be cheap, some passive safety need to be discard, so,in order to counter back the weakness, they have to make the foundation stronger. Even no airbag,atleast the safety cell is strong. Previously they just rebadged, nothing can do. Then they start learning from waja, yup, for the first time,nothing perfect, they keep improving it, a step at a time.

But then, that were the engineers, but atlast, u know lar, cronies n vendors, make their hardwork to the drain.

For me, prtn is not there yet, but atleast, they are catching up, not that far as before, hopefully oneday,if they can survive, they will be on par or even better. Only time can tell.

golf 30% more on import tax, civic n altis,no import tax. Same as locals on excise n sales duty. Asking for golf standard,i thinkit too much for the moment, but golf still expensive do make compare to prtn. Look at their quality then.

We can only know the open market value percar coz none i believe reveal their actual cost percar. If price below 75k for prtn, their omv shud be around 40k+- without tax. If 65k, shud be around 32k++ without tax. That include manufacturer profit without traders profit percar.

Dunno the cost coz need to minus manufacturer profit.

actually, i'm not asking them not doing the test. Just ask them with sort of questions to know how they respond to it n they respond it responsibly. If u read all my post, i am a safety first kind of a guy.

Yup,they are being paid, i believe all engineers in all manufacturers being paid n all people doing work n being paid unless for charity.

The diff is only whether u do it with full commitment, half baked or just play2 with it. Some are doing so so,just for the money, but there are some doing more than they shud do. Depends.

Why need to think negatively when they give out positive attitude. Yup, they need to send the car for crash test, the objective is to meet the minimum requirements. But if the do it beyond it even with all the limitations by outdoing themselves, why not?

Atleast they are commited to be better than be stagnant. Rnd cost of exora is nearly the same as saga, but they are doing it better for exora. So, shud we call it a bad thing they r doing?

They can opt to maintain 3 stars requirements, but they make it 4 stars requirements. They can settle p321a the same as exora at 4 stars target, but they try to aim it 5 stars.

I dun think that is a bad thing. If they still maintain old standard as waja untill today, i said they are doing what they are being paid coz that is the minimum requirements. Its like a teacher, u r paid to teach, same as lecturer, a good teacher teach, but excellent one inspired. That makes a diff. U cannot blame unless they are not doing the teaching, but if they are doing it briliantly, dont they deserve a credit?

Im sorry if i offended u in anyway, just dont like the way u r thinking. If so, toyota done recalls people said responsible n good(but they are being paid, so,according to you way of thinking, its not charity, so,its not responsible act)(not saying that when toyota recalls,u said responsible,only the way of thinking), but prtn done recalls, people said bs, dunno how to make car correctly n etc(but then, u rules apply here, they just doing what they are being paid for), but why with diff thinking with diff manufacturers by malaysian? We shud praise n critics the equally n fair rite.

---

Added on March 2, 2012, 10:22 ameh,what happend to my post. Haishh, again, sincere appology if any of my word offended u. To many adrenalin rushed in the morning.

Still like u even nevertheless many arguments n sharing of knowledge coz we are all friends in the forum rite. Peace yo :-)

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 2 2012, 10:22 AM

AFAIK, as being told earlier,premium line will get the cow..ish, n executive@middle line gets hq water repellant fabric, standard@baseline gets normal fabric as standard in any prtn nowadays. Dunno whether they make final change. But yesterday, i think some of people being called up to prtn hq for product intro n seeing car in real lives.

---

Added on March 2, 2012, 12:58 pmbro turbocharged, as u mentioned,its friday :-), we are all brothers here rite. Keep on posting, if not, quite bored if no one post comment here.

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 2 2012, 12:58 PM

yup agreed, one thing missing that is forte in malaysia used naza badge, meaning same tax applied as prtn n perodua. No ckd 10% tax overthere.

So, 1.6 forte is the price range that i think prtn will introduce it 1.6 cfe premium. That is why the comparison. But if i not mistaken, they also compare it with ford focus 2.0 na.

But still feel not good, maybe just compare with forte 2.0, bigger displacement. 1.6cfe, smaller displacement but turbo. So, which one is better sir?

---

Added on March 3, 2012, 7:43 pmbelow comment not for u kadajawi, for someone who mentioned stupid comparison. Just asking him opinion only since he want to compare same displacement@pwr. Maybe flx se shud be compare with forte 1.6 since same displacement, but i think flx se still win interm of performance coz century sprint 12 scnd flat, forte need 0.5 sncd more, but it just a small margin though,

---

Added on March 3, 2012, 8:01 pmif that is the logic comparison, then new honda civic which may introduce this year, shud include comparison its 1.8 engine performance with lotus elise 1.8 coz that is the same displacement rite. N honda civic@accord 2.0 shud compare its accord performance maybe with ktm car or caterham that has 2.0 displacement or maybe lotus 2 eleven :-). It seems logic rite...same displacement :-). Or is it a also a dumbest comparison EVER? Well, u rules apply mate.

---

Added on March 3, 2012, 8:04 pmoh wait, forget to add on honda stream n wish which also comes with 1.8 displacement. Shud compare wish n stream with civic,altis, elise,exige n etc that has 1.8 pwrtrain, but non turbo, if not,somebody got mad :-)

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 3 2012, 08:04 PM

ha..ha..an engineer from proton working with supplier. Wow, thats news, cari duit luar ke bro :-).

Anyway, all electronics equipments are being supply by vendors n actually the same vendors as others. Like srs airbags, only some vendors supply it, n they supply it to all car manufacturers on the world. Erm, maybe the engineer in that forum want to say, airbags are from protons, esp are from prtn(actually from bosch), ecu 32bit also from proton, n everything invented by prtn.

Haish, dont the engineer mentioned know the word OEM? Previous supplier of pwr windows already out of pic, previously, prtn design it, send blue print to vendors, initial part is ok during selection, the u know what happened high production, they stumble(vendors)but dunno whether the new one, which one of global oem also will do the same thing, but seing exora(new vendor for pwr windows) still survive untill this day, i think it shud be ok. Now, many parts are oem, means standard across manufacturers to reduce cost.

Like punch cvt,oem, prtn ask them to provide certain specifications for prtn cvt, they send out sample that they already tested it earlier(actually by doing this can make development time cut short)then prtn n lotus tested it, send all data to punch, if there is any dissactifaction, punch will try to make it as being demand. Thats why now gbox warranty is handle by punch,not prtn coz using oem. Previously, prtn buy the gbox, so,if anything happened,like savvy amt, prtn send complaint to renault, but because renault say their gbox never had that problem, so, prtn have to bear it. But worser, when this happened after warranty expired, consumer have to bear the cost. But for oem, punch is responsible to cater any problem arise in the future coz prtn now order punch to build a gearbox for them, then pay the cost pergearbox as agreed in agreements. not buying them like previously as mitsu,renault n prtn try n error.

So, if abs prob, i think trw is responsible, esp, bosch, iafm plus injector also bosch, meter instruments, some electrical components including ecu,wiring n harness, bash continental ag.

I think all suppliers mentioned are oem for other makes also. correct me if im wrong, dunno whether vw using vw brand esp, vw brand abs, vw brand turbine, vw brand ecu n vw brand wiring n etc. Normally oem make it on behalf of them.

By the way,if u notice, the windows supplier also change, slowly, now flx using st gobaiin sekurit if im not mistaken, blm is ms standard, fl, not so sure, but 1st gen exora using diff vendor also, but both exora n flx window vendors are oem for beemer. Some said st gobain is better, some said the other one is better,dunnolah, as long as oem other big co,for me its oklor. Can check oversea beemer forum.

Still confuse with prtn engineers work with suppliers, never heard before. Anyways, it seems like a bold move before launch by others perhaps coz to make sure that buyers are holding on buying untill they managed to launch theirs, so that when too many options, buyers will confius. N maybe buying them coz of brand image compare to prtn.

N the engineers also dunno prtn using many oems, seems like lazy engineer lor, what do u do at prtn rnd? Come, eat n sleep n punch out? No wonder many problems in prtn cars coz they have engineers like that. Dunno what is happening around them :-).

ha..ha..an engineer from proton working with supplier. Wow, thats news, cari duit luar ke bro :-).

Anyway, all electronics equipments are being supply by vendors n actually the same vendors as others. Like srs airbags, only some vendors supply it, n they supply it to all car manufacturers on the world. Erm, maybe the engineer in that forum want to say, airbags are from protons, esp are from prtn(actually from bosch), ecu 32bit also from proton, n everything invented by prtn.

Haish, dont the engineer mentioned know the word OEM? Previous supplier of pwr windows already out of pic, previously, prtn design it, send blue print to vendors, initial part is ok during selection, the u know what happened high production, they stumble(vendors)but dunno whether the new one, which one of global oem also will do the same thing, but seing exora(new vendor for pwr windows) still survive untill this day, i think it shud be ok. Now, many parts are oem, means standard across manufacturers to reduce cost.

Like punch cvt,oem, prtn ask them to provide certain specifications for prtn cvt, they send out sample that they already tested it earlier(actually by doing this can make development time cut short)then prtn n lotus tested it, send all data to punch, if there is any dissactifaction, punch will try to make it as being demand. Thats why now gbox warranty is handle by punch,not prtn coz using oem. Previously, prtn buy the gbox, so,if anything happened,like savvy amt, prtn send complaint to renault, but because renault say their gbox never had that problem, so, prtn have to bear it. But worser, when this happened after warranty expired, consumer have to bear the cost. But for oem, punch is responsible to cater any problem arise in the future coz prtn now order punch to build a gearbox for them, then pay the cost pergearbox as agreed in agreements. not buying them like previously as mitsu,renault n prtn try n error.

So, if abs prob, i think trw is responsible, esp, bosch, iafm plus injector also bosch, meter instruments, some electrical components including ecu,wiring n harness, bash continental ag.

I think all suppliers mentioned are oem for other makes also. correct me if im wrong, dunno whether vw using vw brand esp, vw brand abs, vw brand turbine, vw brand ecu n vw brand wiring n etc. Normally oem make it on behalf of them.

By the way,if u notice, the windows supplier also change, slowly, now flx using st gobaiin sekurit if im not mistaken, blm is ms standard, fl, not so sure, but 1st gen exora using diff vendor also, but both exora n flx window vendors are oem for beemer. Some said st gobain is better, some said the other one is better,dunnolah, as long as oem other big co,for me its oklor. Can check oversea beemer forum.

Still confuse with prtn engineers work with suppliers, never heard before. Anyways, it seems like a bold move before launch by others perhaps coz to make sure that buyers are holding on buying untill they managed to launch theirs, so that when too many options, buyers will confius. N maybe buying them coz of brand image compare to prtn.

N the engineers also dunno prtn using many oems, seems like lazy engineer lor, what do u do at prtn rnd? Come, eat n sleep n punch out? No wonder many problems in prtn cars coz they have engineers like that. Dunno what is happening around them :-).

By the way, of course they are issues during development, but its normal. Last time,all i heard,only on vendors part prob,externally,more on cosmetic part. N heard also some vendors already kick out coz q prob even the product is not launch yet coz this time around, from my source mentioned they tested the production car from assembly lines with all production parts in order to iron out any potential problems in the future n continuous testing will be done even the car is already launch.

But nothing perfect though coz diff people,diff way of handling their cars, hardly to immitate all ways of handling. Atleast they try. They learn alot from previous lessons, but dunno about now then coz new owner. My source also keep his mouth shut when new owners coming in. Hopefully its a positive things,not negative one. If not, it will be a doom.

By the way, of course they are issues during development, but its normal. Last time,all i heard,only on vendors part prob,externally,more on cosmetic part especially on finishing part. N heard also some vendors already kick out coz q prob even the product is not launch yet coz this time around, from my source mentioned they tested the production car from assembly lines with all production parts in order to iron out any potential problems in the future n continuous testing will be done even the car is already launch.

But nothing perfect though coz diff people,diff way of handling their cars, hardly to immitate all ways of handling. Atleast they try. They learn alot from previous lessons, but dunno about now then coz new owner. My source also keep his mouth shut when new owner coming in. Hopefully its a positive things,not negative one. If not, it will be a doom.

The best story that they shared with me is when they tested p321a mule at sweden at bosch centre for esp and rnh homogolation. They notice some paparazi taking out pictures which were foreigners, n they managed to chat with them, ask them not to reveal the testers face in their mags or blog or etc. To their shock, the picture came out in paultan, which is malaysian blog, make them confius whether malaysians really have foreigners as their paparazi. Luckily their faces are not in the pictures.

And also those who coming back from idiada@spain, they quite shock on how the yellow cars picture leak out to the net where they are on preperation, preparing cars for crash testing. All precautions have been made, but still leak here n there. They really susah hati especially the hnt team coz they have to answer to the top mgt about it. I joke with them that i actually like leak photos, they said, like it or not, according to the top mgt, it is still pnc. Even letting people test drive the car during homogolation testing is wrong coz if the top knows, they have to face the top mgt, their job is at lines, n can become a serious court case for them. Susah nak cr makan nanti they said.

Thats why, even my sources r really important people in prtn, but still dont get previllege to touch,looj or drive the car. They only offer special previllege only when the car is at launch@media preview.

Erm, but i not the media, so, i think no need for me to join unless it is holiday during that time. About 16 march, the launch date, its already been in the net for quite long time, but heard maybe, just maybe posponed in the end of march. Hope fully our pm is free at the time coz launching is depend on his availability.

---

Added on March 4, 2012, 12:52 amdunno what happened coz replying using nokia e5, thinking of getting androids phone, but coz im not kind of person that like to waste money esp on hp unless kong, then, just settle for now with e5. Yup, sometimes i noticed my comment become double posting,sometimes it laps each others.

Sorry for that

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 4 2012, 12:52 AM

that is the mule for p321a but people call it exora penyek. The outer is not really important, but the underneath is. They r doing homogolation of esp with ride n handling coz need to fine tune. U dont want u car,take a normal curve, esp cut the speed too early@too late, or even the cut it when situation not demanding for it. The target weight also most the same. It just to speed up the development process while waiting for real prototype being develop and tested in diff area. But they tested it again with real production prototype to validate it.

If esp always interefering due to bad rnh, it will be a boring car. But if a car having good rnh, even with esp on, u still can have fun with it with secure in mind.

U know, prtn is working really hard to make this baby a good car they ever produce, with global car tagname, they benchmark it with other global cars. Its not an easy job since manpower capacity n facilities n budget is not on prtn side. They are doing it beyond their own limit n capacity by hoping that they managed to satisfy all. If not some. U knowlar how hard to satisfy malaysian needs. It is impossible for them to produce car like p321a and sell it at flx se pricing due to tax in malaysia.

Lets wait for the launch whether the project is fruitful or not. They (prtn) can say it is the best for them, but it still depend on customer upon test drive it n throughout ownership.

But for me, comparison shud be made accordingly. Dont aspect accord refinement,lexus comfort or beemer driving dynamic. Just compare with b n c segment cars that they compete with. Bmw 3 series, merc c class are out of picture. Maybe fiesta, focus, civic,altis,vios,city,sylphy, latio,forte, elantra, rio, accent n etc, shud be a good comparison. But if there can be on par with mentioned above. I think its good coz they never before being on par with them. If better,then excellent job. If not, it doesnt mean a bad car, just not rather satisfying, unless really2 bad, worst than exora@persona, so that is damn bad.

its like the crash testing procedure n homogolation, they tested it using software simulation, then tested it in inhouse crash test lab, and finally send it to idiada to validate n fine tune if needed.

All this things are to excelerate development, and also cut cost too u know how expensive n high cost they have to bear sending cars to idiada including all overhead cost they have to pay such flight cost n etc, not only for cars, bit also for the team. 1 handbuilt near end prototype can cost them rm1 million to build coz parts are not made in bulk. If sending 100 cars let say to idiada, so,it become really highcost to prtn coz its nearly cost them rm100 millions to destroy the car during crash test. There are many fleets tested out around the world, to the target market that they need to fine tune the engine, nvh, rnh, reliability n etc coz every country have diff road structure, diff type of fuel, diff climate, diff needs for rnh especially. Some are comfort bias, some are sport oriented.

Unless prtn is a big co like honda, can have diff version of cars as in america, europe, asia n eventheir own jdm. Prtn only have 1 version to fill in all the markets. It really a tough job for them to balance out everything from design, performance, fc,comfort,creature comfort, emission cntrl, ride n handling n most importantly the pricing cost u dont want to sell p321a at the same price as civic euro,or even ceed or i30 coz u will be dead meat by then.

---

Added on March 4, 2012, 9:28 amyup,of couse they tested it n check it, but not design it like punch cvt coz it is ip property for punch. U cannot make any modification, but u can demand for modification n done by oem according to ur specs. That is common practised by oem.

Even by thorough checking, sometimes, some problems did not merged upon testings. Thats why there is no car without problems. Even vw mk5 have pwrwindows problems, vw glof mk6 has mouse trap(the noise) inside the dash n door panel. U shud check golf owners forum or even watching astro 734, then u know. The thing they can do is doing their best to avoid any problem in future. They r doing rolling test for every car before roll out for production, but test every car thoroughly, by driving customers cars,i think never practised in any manufacturer. Sometimes, some minor problems such scratches n etc, can be happening during handling the car to customer, from the lorry, to the stockyard n to the showroom.

Thats why as end user, we need to inspect everything including the wiper before sign in the form cost some are not covered by warranty when u sign the form. Test drive it before u drive is a good practice too to find out any imperfection of the car such rattling sound, bad tyres n etc.

This post has been edited by mat79: Mar 4 2012, 09:28 AM

just like to lepak at lyns coz not only can share info, and also got good knowledge from others forumers too, yup,we all care,thats why sharing is caring.

Love the critics coz critics are good coz eventhough saying things not good coz having good facts, but mindless bashing is not.

Without critics, they dont know their weakness. They shud be thankful to the critics coz it shows them the area they need to work on improving. Credit also desrve when its due. Jokes are good coz laughter is the best medicine, but excessive bad jokes sometimes not good oso, can get heart attack, hu...hu....