Aircond forming ice most of the time means gas is low.

Nothing to do with the air-cond itself generally.
Aircond is not manufactured to produce ice, rest assure.

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Added on July 25, 2012, 10:27 pm
I won't be surprise if it did happen.

Many condo and apartment nowadays has pre-fixed conceal piping for air-cond.
So ensure the spec of piping is suit to the air-cond needs before buying.

Last time, my house renovation contractor screw up the Astro conceal wiring, they loop the Astro cable like ordinary electricity looping, causing signal loss across all the point.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 25 2012, 10:28 PM

Workmanship is one area one always to look at and forget whenever there is issue on air-cond.

I have 4 Pana air-cond that being used for 4 years daily until now, none has issue (touch wood), until now.

But one poor workmanship in installation that not tilting enough, cause some minor water clog issue from time to time especially when dirty time.

That's a clue and a very important question also which needs asking. New install over existing piping or with new piping?

On the bolded part, it is not entirely true but it is not wrong. R410a is a mixture with very very very very very very minimal temperature glitch as the boiling point of the mixture refrigerant is similar. As the boiling point is similar, the evaporation rate of each refrigerant is similar, hence there will be no one refrigerant is less in ratio than other. If there is leakage, top up on R410a is acceptable even if it is in 'commercial unit installation standard'.

However, it is often very hard to determine how much refrigerant is left in the unit. What installer will do in Malaysia is that they will measure the pressure of the system, using experience, they assume the remaining refrigerant quantity and add according to what they think is the balance. What Aussie will do is that they reclaim the refrigerant into a tank, weigh it, and top up according to spec, with the tank on a weighing machine. Before the recharge, they even do vacuum the system before re-charging. So if we are kiasi, we release the refrigerant (which is illegal), and recharge the full weight. Installer in Malaysia do not use the reclaim machine.

As for the piping thickness, some manufacturers specified 0.8mm because they kiasi and wanted to cover their own ass. I have experience in using 3/8 tubes with 0.38mmt and 1/2 tubes with 0.56mmt, with working pressure of 400psi, testing pressure 600psi. Operating pressure of these room air conditioners are lesser than 400psi. The worried point of why manufacturers wanted to use 0.8mmt tube is that they are concern about the flaring point crack, not the pipe burst. Poor flaring will result in a crack at the joining point hence leakage.

thks for enlightening! no wonder r410a so expensive.... it's also the labor involved. Is flaring point crack a common issue with many installations in the field?

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 26 2012, 11:48 AM

I am not sure why R410a is more expensive but I believe it is because of the supply/ demand effect, Installers are actually doing the same thing be it with R22 or R410a. What they need is only need a different pressure gauge, different copper pipes, and a different refrigerant tank. They position, flare, bur, hook up, vacuum, open valve, on AC, touch, feel, pack things, done. They do nothing different from R22 units, so labour should not vary. But you know la, they bought special tool, they need to have ROI also ma.

Side note. If your AC's piping is not exceeding the standard pipe length, then additional refrigerant is not required. Check the spec of standard piping length and don't get conned.

Flaring crack at the tip can be very common. When they have poor installation skill or a poor tool, your flared end is not symetric. Looks odd and you will have visible or non visible crack. So after they joint it, you will have problem because that is the most vulnarable part to high pressure low ductality.

Same problem, newer Pana model. I'm not sure what the "sound" you have is, but for me (I don't reco this as a long-term solution ), a hard knock with my hand on the side (NOT the front) solved it, i.e. there was a loose or vibrating part somewhere. Grease won't help, get someone to check it part by part.

PS, a lot of people have the view that Panasonic products now are much lower in quality than they were many years ago. My old National fan, 20 years and still perfect working condition.

Most…if no all brand now manufacture/OEM @ world factory-china, National/=Panasonic so don't compare

In the 50s-70s, the west used to scorn Jap product = low quality. Now they know better. Even recent BBC article in the UK, top 3 most reliable car makes are from Honda, Toyota and Lexus. The conti rank among the lowest with Range Rover among them.

Who knows that China (and Korea) might become the next Japan in terms of quality. Lots of Japanese now working in China. The migration of highly skilled labour in an increasingly stagnant economy now going to where the boom is. Not just there but in Thailand, German tech and know-how are diffusing there. Cotto (tiles, WC, bidet, bath,etc) and Pimatec are some examples. Pimatec makes Pimaflex which I hope comes here. It would make aircon brazening a thing of the past. On the contrary, it might increase incidence of aircond theft.

This post has been edited by halcyon27: Jul 26 2012, 11:44 PM

There are still some skill set China even Taiwan find it hard to take on. Like car gearbox, how many do you see it manufacture from China? Mainly still come from Japan and Europe.

China is goods on manufacture because of cheap labor,soon they will lost the competitive. Take Malaysia for example we used to be good in manufacture same as Singapore and Taiwan. But we never evolved, now we can't compete with China for manufacture, and neither we can compete with Singapore and Taiwan for high tech manufacturing.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 27 2012, 08:59 AM

Or Indonesia?

I read an article about China. They are good in copying, but they only know how to copy the product and not the process. They copy the fast things the tangible things. They losing the own culture and value. They are just a production house now, and the real skill like handcraft are dying. They don't have many creative peoples. Not many artist, designer and skill people now.
This are the things and skill they need to copy to move to next stage. We Malaysia should too

I thought that is Taiwan..Every year when my boss and my team go for New technology exhibition in Germany, they have a big sign at the entrance "We apologize but no Taiwanese allowed"

Because they always copy other's machines and sell it at a much much lower cost and cheaper change parts, but the quality/accuracy is not there

If you notice, Taiwan and Malaysia have not been moving for some years.

My friend have a very good comment when he travel to Taiwan for holiday. Taiwan for holiday is good for Malaysia because they have not move much in the economy just like Malaysia so the afford level is like in Malaysia. Which I agree.

Will the germany write for China too.

China buy than reversed engineer it ;-)

Have you see the crv of China. Dam real from far.

China commit so many copy crime. But nobody dare to sue it.

With quantity comes quality.
China DVD used to last 1 month, Nowadays I switch on my China brand DVD machine on all the time hoping for it to rosak so i have excuse to change a new one ... still waiting after 4 years.

With quantity comes innovation.
China converting machines used to be cheap and quite basic, Nowadays their prices are going up up up, and the new machines output, percision, range are increasing day by day, even the west is using China machines more and more.

With quantity comes power.
Companies initially complained about China copying and kept their technology under wraps whithin their oun countries, Nowadays they are opening plants and even sub contracting manufacturing to China. e.g. Iphone to Foxconn in China.

With quantity comes acceptance.
Countries used to target China as their main competitor, Nowadays they all want to sell to china.

The sleeping dragon has awakened.

I m waiting some country to punish them. It seems like only US capable do that. Since they copy a lot of US product.

Us are afraid of them, because China is the largest US bonds hold. If they dump all the bonds US still go shock at least for few years. The money will be less than our boleh dollars.

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Added on July 28, 2012, 2:07 pmQuantity yes, quality maybe, innovative I will say close to non. If they are good, they will have more innovative product and application.

You should see their gen X people, many are spoiled.


This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 28 2012, 02:07 PM