ok he is not a racist,just appeal,clear his name,next time tell him not to talk about people appearance,people might think that you are racist and if he want to say it,say it just once so people dont misunderstand him.

so far no Suarez's friends stood up to support him that "he thought the word is just regularly friendly gesture", if he really thought like that, he should be using that word as well in his daily life isn't it?

Actually I did post an article where Poyet, Lugano and his mates said that.

Also as proof that it's used often there I showed a banner the Argentinean national side held up in support of Fernando Caceres that read, "forza negro", which was displayed on tv and in front of thousands of fans. Before anyone interjects to say its the context of which the word was used, I'm merely replying to the post above to at least show it's a common word there.

Anyway Christmas dinner time. Merry Christmas to those who celebrate it and happy holidays to the rest.

This is a good read. Even coming from a Pool fan.

http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2011/12/debun...trice-evra.html

Let me quote this line

Objectivity is the name of the game here..........

This is where most people are getting it wrong here. When we talk about rules on the pitch i.e. offside calls, fouls commited, we can talk about objectivity, because they are related football. But the question in hand now is about RACISM, and this is not about football anymore, this is about HUMANITY. Humanity can never be judge fairly by a man's objectivity.

People have to realize that among nearly 7 billion people living on earth today, there a great great number of varieties of words, tones, and level of offensiveness an expression can represent.

You wanna talk about offensive racism, well here it is:



Meanwhile there are lower degrees of offensiveness in racist words. One example, 'Ah Pek' as often used for older Chinese guys in Malaysia. I'm not aware of its true meaning, but I always use that word by judging the skin color and appearance of the person I talk to. Now that's racism right? Because I use that word based on his skin color, when I have no knowledge of whatsoever of its meaning.

Now I've read somewhere in this forum that the word 'budak' is not offensive here, but offensive in Indonesia. Enters then the question of cultural difference.

As I said all these are because of HUMANITY issues. When we say about humanity, cultural issue should ALWAYS be included into all equations.

Now, its fine for football to promote better humanity values, especially in worlwide scale, but when the football community has decided to insert clauses dealing with humanity values in the code of conduct or rules in running the football game, I think football has shoot its own feet. It just brings more trouble into their hands rather than resolving it. It causes the question of racism to stand out, where football's early intention is to unite people, and to surpress racism.

Now back to Suarez. I think FA has decided on a decision that is the best they thought they could take, but IMHO they've got it ALL WRONG. If there is a clause in their code of conduct about punishing players who utter offensive racism remarks, is there any guideline which the FA will follow to determine whether the player is guilty or not, or whether the words uttered is offensive or not. The later is needed, because the FA has decided to deal with HUMANITY values in its code of conduct, where cultural difference is bound to enter the question almost everytime.

Notice that I have highlighted the word HUMANITY each time. My dear fellow football fans, please, we do talk about football everyday, but in this instance, all of us, including me, should realise that what we are discussing about in this thread is not about football anymore. It is something BIGGER than our beloved game. Its certainly not about Evra vs Suarez thing, or Liverpool's chance to become league champions is doomed or not.



Oh, and before I end this up, I would like to mention about the controversial Blatter's handshake comment. Boy, how easily people can get irritated by their own way of understanding. IMHO, HUMANITY values can be promoted, projected, and encouraged by a farking handshake. People just need to open their mind up.

Mods won't delete posts containing the 'F' word, will they?

So are you saying governing bodies should take out humanity values away from football? what's unity then without humanity values?

The FA is an organization with their own rules and regulations. Some rules may/may not also be applied similarly by other FAs worldwide. In this case, the English FA found Suarez guilty of violating their rules. By his own admission, he did admit to saying a word which is in violation of the FA's rules.

Regardless of whether the word is widely accepted in other countries, regions or cultures, these people are paid, working professionals who are registered with their clubs who are registered with the English FA. As it violates their rules, then he should be charged as such under English FA law.

If a professional thinks he is being discriminated/marginalized, he is within his rights to raise it to his employers and then take action as necessary.

People should stop looking at this as a whatever issue and for what it is; Suarez said something in reference to Evra's skin color, he took offence to it and reported it. Did Suarez say something in reference to Evra's skin color, he admitted it. Is what he said against the FA's laws, yes. That's all. What people perceive of this, who can prevent it..

I never said that. I think football has done what it can by organizing numerous campaigns to kick racism out. And I think it should just do that. Ask the players to wear anti-racism t-shirts before matches. Meet the fans in anti-racism campaigns. You know, these are laudable effort done by the football community.

But to insert it in its law book? As I said, football has shot its own foot. Inserting clauses to charge players for racism offense, without mentioning how to draw a line whether it is actually offensive or not? I think football is overestimating itself nowadays.

Not to mention FA's action has caused reactions in Uruguay. Have you read comments from Uruguay? As I said, racism is not part of football issue, its humanity issue, and when FA charged Suarez for racism misconduct, Uruguayans may feel that the FA is not only questioning Suarez's actions, but also their own culture.

Perhaps my English is not that good to express how serious the implication is, but I think this excerpt from BBC will do:



And another article worth reading.

PS: Forgive me if somebody has posted these articles, just re-read if you've read them



As I said, FA should not have racism in their code of conduct. Football CANNOT eliminate racism. Football can only promote anti-racism.

I agree, Evra has right to complain. I just question the way England FA handled the issue.

Yes Suarez referred to Evra's skin color, what can the word 'Negrito' can be referred to right?

Now one question need to be answered:

Did Suarez statement was meant to be derogatory? Did Suarez have any intention to attack Evra's roots?

Not everything can be taken at face value, especially for the humanity issue.

This post has been edited by matyrze: Dec 25 2011, 05:08 PM

thats what blatter is saying all along... racist people are only joking.. the victim should not be too emo and should just suck it in and make up afterwards...

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Added on December 25, 2011, 5:33 pmThere are many2 cultural in world with different views about racism. Some dont think its an issue at all.

For me in the case of the contradicting culture, its the culture of the victim should take precedent. He is to decide weather he should be offended by it or not, not the offender.

If the offender do it by ignorance, then the full punishment will serve as a good lesson for him and everybody else that racism is not tolerable.



This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 25 2011, 05:33 PM

Why? No culture is above any other. No culture is 'holier' than any other. The victim has the right to be offended, but the FA as the governing body should take the whole picture into consideration before charging the 'offender'.

Actually the FA might have done it by sanctioning a fine to Suarez for misconduct on the pitch (without mentioning the word 'racist'), and warn him that the European generally are not tolerable to any word referring to skin color. But to deny Suarez's right to perform his job by banning him for 8 matches? That's foolish.

Why shouldnt' there be an anti-racism law? And who's to say Football cannot eliminate racism? If there's any a good place to start, then it's here.

As for the word being derogatory/offensive and having intention, it's not an issue here. As the FA said in their judgement, he is guilty of saying a word which violates their law.

Let's assume, for argument's sake, that Suarez did not intend to attack Evra's roots, so ok. But did he say a word which made reference to Evra's color?

Because racism issue is bigger than football. Why do I say so?

Because modern football is merely a game created by man about 100 years ago.

Racism however is a polemic which has started since...well, I dunno, since the start of human civilization maybe?

Football can be a medium to surpress racism. But it takes A LOT MORE to eliminate it. If the football community think they can achieve anything by inserting clauses in its law book for running the game, well again I say they're over estimating themselves.

I've answered that did I?

You haven't answered my question yet:

Did Suarez statement was meant to be derogatory?

This stigma is what will stop progress. Just because something came into existence long ago, it doesn't mean it cannot be stopped or changed if it is wrong or unacceptable.

I personally think it was meant to be derogatory. How is my personal opinion going to affect anything?

Oh yeah? If people at the top echelon of football community think racism can be eliminated by enforcing rules in the game, well good luck with that.

If you ask me the best way to eliminate racism is through education. Football maybe can be a small part of it. Oh, probably in the future whoever wants to take up coaching license they need to master and memorize Nelson Mandela's speeches and views? Now that can be more effective to curb racism

I do understand why you've formed your opinion as such. Generally people think racism is bad, because usually it is an act which a certain group of people feel they are superior than others. When Suarez made a reference towards Evra's skin color, automatically people will say 'oh Suarez's a bad boy'.

However as for me I acknowledge that there are cultural diversification towards the term 'racism' in the other parts of the world. There are indeed cultures that has friendly or less derogatory racist terms. We just need to know and understand them.

Education is definitely a strong place to start from, when people are young, instill in them the good and positive values as well as nurture and guide them. But education is not and should not be the only institution against this. Everyone has a part to play.

I've not called him a racist. My opinion is that he is guilty of insulting someone. Yes there are cultural differences, but we can always say at the same time that Suarez could've said something else less controversial?

One can only questioned Suarez's motives. I do think that it is more to wind up Evra..

btw, ignorance is not an excuse.. besides he has been playing in Europe for years..

I'll answer that for you. The FA charged Suarez for making a racial slur. Now, in FA's book it's offensive. Hence, the punishment. Whether it's derogatory or not, only Suarez or probably Evra knew.

This post has been edited by likeicare: Dec 25 2011, 11:06 PM

It is an intense game between two rivals that hate each other.

Did you really think Suarez said that to make friend?

He is not a racist but using the word just to provoke Evra in the game.

what do you think if our national goalkeeper get a 8 matches ban for calling an indonesian player that have a baby face as 'budak'.

I am a Malaysian for 20 years but I didnt know the word budak is offensive in Indonesia.

The issue here is about race and their names. Pretty sure 'budak' has nothing to do with race.

Come up with a similar analogy then we can probably get a clearer picture.