Of course I know that, that's why there's people that didn't buy; But what I highlighting is option and choice. We can't control what the manufacturer wants to do or their choice, they can provide little and charge a lot, and if people continue to support and buy, then it just encourage them further, this applies to any product; that's why competition is good and better.
Want something simple, it doesn't mean there can be no customization or more powerful features; Removing or not having is completely different thing. Imagine a DSLR with no manual mode, full on Auto mode. Yea, of course, ti can cater for certain market segment, there's users who use auto mode only anyway, BUT that doesn't change the fact that they can just simply remove, downscale, adds limitation, restriction, etc.

Of course I know about why bother to make it more advance, complicated, which means harder to control and maintain, more manpower, resources and money required to built and maintain; I already said it before anyway in past previous post. They can don't bother, just like car manufacturer is Malaysia, providing less feature, stripped down specs, selling at high price, people still buy; Newer generation, use more local content, quality went down, but priced higher, people still buy and support; So, why bother to reduce price or introduce more features ($$) when you can make more profit, not to mentioned the amount of units can be sold. Many people are brand conscious thats one thing for sure.

Making things simple means less things can go wrong, I also mentioned this already. It also means, they have less things to maintain, it's like when you're an administrator of a company, you give the user a account with many restrictions and limitations, this way, you have less problem and you can ensure the user won't make any stupid mistake. As for Apple, another benefit to them is, when people already USED to the simplicity, and because they have NO OPTION/CHOICE to learn more advance feature, they become SPOON-FED, LAZY, or dumb-down; This is another advantage to the manufacturer. Why? They see more advance device, they feel it's complicated and reluctant to learn or switch, thus, Apple is able to maintain their customer better. As I said in previous posting, this goes with the opposite of the a person shouldn't always be spoon-fed, never read the manual, no need to learn about their device; Of course, one is free to choose whatever they want, they can choose to know nothing and just stick to their level, but should we encourage that?
If you work in computer support/helpdesk, do you think the user should not be computer literate and knows the basics at least, and then slowly improved and learn? Or do you think they should always call up helpdesk/support for any small problem, and they should not need to remember/learn from the experience?

The way I see it, no matter how great something is made simple, it's always good that the person starts to MOVE ON and MOVE FORWARD; but if a device have no such option, of course, it's not wrong, but it's not nice and if we're talking about TECHNOLOGY, it's definitely not the way. If future Windows decide to adopt this for Windows Home edition, make things simple and removes many features, full of limitations and restrictions, scale down the OS, do you think it's the way forward or backward? I think this is bad influence. Removing is not the way. They can turn off, set default with many limitations and restrictions, which can be adjusted. That's should be the proper way; even when developing software, a Pro VS a Lite version can be the SAME software, being Lite version have the Pro features turned off, not included, etc. It'll be stupid to maintain two different copy with DUPLICATES (which is what some local software house is doing).

Anyway, it's just my opinion "lah"; No doubt, I did not deny each product has it's own category of customer and I didnt say there shouldn't be either, just like cars, some people like small cars, some people like big cars, some people like MPV, etc. Each has their own preference; What I'm saying here is, I disagree with the statement about what Apple did is the way "it should be" or "correct way" mentioned. What Apple did to smartphone, tablets, I disagree that it's the way it should be, and the reasons are tons, just like what I mentioned above and previous post.
What I agree on would be, they make things simple and easy to use; That's what it should be, BUT it doesn't mean there's need to remove, limit, restricts; So, that it shouldn't be. People can agree or disagree, disagree would mean, your preference is something simple and you don't need anything extra, but it also means you're not thinking about everyone; Example, people who ONLY need something simple, cannot generalize and think that everyone also need something simple ONLY. Why not have BOTH?

My god Andy...
If you tell me that you got any other grade than "A" for English in SPM,I'll be damn surprised....

Walls of text making me.. blur -.-

Haha, it was messy, get "F" got lah.

My N9 review still in draft mode, it's basically ready, just need to review and clean up, will post it up soon by next week most probbably, also very long, but it's not the normal review style; I guess from my posting you can know how it will loook, hahaha; It's long past the due date for Ranger to qualify for the competition but since I'm busy during that week, plus it'll be very rush, I just let it go off the competition.

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Added on November 4, 2011, 1:25 amN8 thread is different with N9 thread
N9 thread most probably will be like N900 thread, but more mixture in between.

This post has been edited by Andy214: Nov 4 2011, 01:25 AM

Sorry for asking noob question here, just got my N9 last nite.
The idle screen will always on displaying the time is it? The screen won't go off...even idle/lock

Still learning in getting used to it...

u can go to (Settings -> Device -> Display -> Standby screen) to turn it off..

Well Andy, you may disagree about the way Apple dumbs down products for its customers but it is not Apple's job to educate customers or improve their skills. Like all companies its aim is just to sell and make money for its shareholders. If it can package a pile of poo and sell it, it will.

Yeah, people should improve their skills and go on to the next level but they can move out of dumbed down products to other product which suits them more. Like iphone to Android. Or a digicam to a DSLR. Incidentally N9 may have the basic/advance toggle switch which you love as it can go to terminal mode and developer mode but how much you can do there I don't know.

There is no right way or wrong way for a company marketing a commercial product. They have very little social responsibility. The only right way is to make money. Period.

The time display use only a tiny amount of power and it switches off in your pocket or when placed face down so switching it off is probably negligible in extending battery life.

Andy looking for "ultimate" device which will NEVER existed...

Andy not looking for ultimate device..

Just ultimate OS..

n9 dun have file manager, where can i found one?
currently can use ovi store coz dun have wifi here =.=''

connect to nokia suite also not working =.=''

This post has been edited by apecx92: Nov 4 2011, 12:13 PM

n9 going for 1025 @ courts - check out the star today.
am really tempted to buy one now

what's the cathch?

There is QAD file manager and File Manager Beta in Ovi store. I recommend the 2nd one.

Right Way? Do you mean by limiting and restricting, etc is right way?
There is always CHOICE, please always say, work hard or work smart. Why choose when you can do both?

In short, people here are arguing to work smart, and some people are arguing work hard.
I'm arguing why should be do only one of it, there's no rules that says you can't do both.
So do you mean you like what MS do with WP7? Since you seems to agree with iOS doing?

No rules that say the OS to be simple and cannot have more advance features. It's very much depend on Customer, the demand;
Like you said, people are satisfied and no demand, then this will continue on. Why should they provide when people are not "realizing" and pushing them, no need to worry about competition because people still chose them.
Just like car industry in Malaysia, the jap car are way way overpriced despite their low/trim down specs, more local content, price increase. But people continue to buy and support; why should they reduce the price or bring in higher specs, when the competitors tried so hard to bring down prices, introduce better specs, value for money, etc yet people still chose them and support them; They also sell much more units per month and earning more per units. In oversea, the competitor is tough, the specs of the same car here is much more higher and priced much more lower.

There's no wrong or right, they can do whatever they want. I'm just saying that, it shouldn't be the case of ONLY SIMPLE OS with no advance feature; In fact, it comes with BOTH, but they decided NOT to provide it, it's like giving you the Microsoft Windows, with only "GUEST" account. For non-technical or people who don't understand software may not understand or see it, software is different with hardware, but some people may not know the difference or if it's software related or hardware related.
For example: a new feature introduced in Canon 600D, in fact, it's software update, and it can actually be updated for the 550D. They can decide NOT to provide it for 550D for marketing/business reason. They can do that, but it doesn't mean the customer MUST accept it? It's nothing wrong to complain and request/demand, Manufacturer/Business owners need to KNOW that Customer are not fools and for them to play around with.

No need so complicated; It's just software and who say it will NEVER exist. It can be done EASILY, just whether they want to provide or not only. They can make Windows to run on mobile if they want to, or like Android device they can provide lock bootloader, etc. they can choose to put in more security and restrictions. It's all about how the Customer voice out their view. Just like Android devices, why people least prefer Motorola Android; Is it necessary for them to control. What about SE Android? Did they start listening to the Customers?

In short, software is software; It's not right to add in more and more limitations and restrictions, etc. It all started because of iOS. Before that, it was moving forward, manufacturer's try to provide MORE and enhance it. After iOS, suddenly, things change, limitaitons and restrictions came, like WP7?

As above, no need so complicated, it not about ultimate; It's just simple, there's no need to scale-down, limit and add restriction. By default, it's there, but they decided to make remove this and that, add limitation, restrictions, and control. As I said, they can provide a Windows with many limitations, remove the features, restrictions, etc. so that the user don't simply install programs, cannot simply do this and that, suddenly, Windows become a good OS, less user complain, less problem, less lag, less hang.

It's just simple concept, I can built a software, I can make it flexible or make it strict, or balance between BOTH, cater for beginner and advance/experience user. Do you prefer (1), (2) or BOTH?
I prefer BOTH, but seems not many people able to catch what I mean. Software is always about BOTH, until iOS came along. Photoshop is not only for advance user, it's powerful and complicated, but they always try to improve and make it simple for beginner to use; that doesn't mean they need to remove features and add limitation/restrictions......


This post has been edited by Andy214: Nov 4 2011, 01:01 PM

Wah Andy, so panjang lebar, my work report also not so panjang Understand what you mean. Go Nokia Discussion Forum WIndows phone section, that's why we(Nokia fans) complain about the restrictions of WP7, you can add your paragraph in, hehe. Like you say, so that they wouldnt think it's ok & keep doing it. Apple wouldnt care, their sales are so good.

Btw, anyone downloaded the Opera Mobile 11 unofficial version? I cannot seem to install it, after rooting it also tak boleh.

This post has been edited by eaglehelang: Nov 4 2011, 01:26 PM

There seem to be no catch. It doesn't say it is on contract. It's either a misprint or a very good deal for a 16GB N9.

Chill, Andy. I don't agree with what ios is doing but I don't think they are wrong either. It's giving the market something which will sell. If millions of iphone users can accept Apple's "dumb os" and restrictions who is to say Apple is doing wrong?

The market will punish whatever product doesn't fit or adapt to their needs. Examples are Lotus 1-2-3, dBase and Wordstar. If you are as old as me you may have heard of them. They were market leaders in their time but they died out when MS Office entered the ring giving users an easier way to accomplish things. In a way you can say MS is dumbing down users but they can accomplish what they want.

It's not really for you or me to say an os should be this or that. That is for the market to decide. Right now Apple is doing something right based on their iphone popularity. If they decide to dumb down ios to imbecile level the market will punish them. So it's more or less self-correcting. Why do Japanese cars sell for higher price and lower specs here? Because of our protectionist car market which force up imported makes. Consumers forced to accept this situation doesn't meant they like it or they can do anything about it.

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Added on November 4, 2011, 2:13 pmWhy waste energy complaining in the Nokia forum about WP7 restrictions? The software is produced by Microsoft, not Nokia. MS tried to copy Apple's design philosophy but fell flat. As to why some can and some can't maybe Andy can give us his opinion.

This post has been edited by KennyKB: Nov 4 2011, 02:13 PM

Any online news for that? wanna forward to my bro.

Not exactly saying they're wrong, but like previous I said, I don't agree with the statement "it should be" (as in that's how the OS should be built or how product should be), if you read previous post, and why I started to write and give so many examples.

Um... I started to use Computer during MS-DOS era, 386 I think? But, I'm not very familiar with Lotus 1-2-3, dBase, or Wordstar, but heard of them. That time, mostly play games lah, and also did many problem like issue command to delete all files and suffer the consequences,

MS Office, I'm not sure what you meant by dumbing down; Did they remove feature, add limitations and restrictions? Or they just make process easier and simplifies things? It's 2 different thing.
Like Camera, it can introduce many Auto & Scene modes in DSLR, so it makes taking photo easier for beginner and starters, but they don't remove manual mode.
What iOS did, is like change the DSLR industry, making super efficient auto-mode so anybody can pickup and use and the pictures turn out nice most of the time, then they remove all the manual modes, features, settings, add in limitation and restrictions (cannot simply transfer files, must go through iTunes).
The is MUCH more beginner and people who just want to take great photo without learning and knowing much, so the product becomes very successful; Does it mean other DSLR make should follow suit? I don't think that's what I want to happen; The public may prefer something simple and easy to use, but it doesn't mean there's need to remove features, add limitations, add restrictions......
Simply put, between (1 - Simple) and (2 - Advance), why choose either one when you can have BOTH?