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 HONDA CIVIC Club V11, My VTEC goes BWAAAAAHH!!!!

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TSmADmAN
post Jul 9 2012, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 8 2012, 03:30 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
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crome is a basically a software to make a custom chip...but the features are pretty good... almost as good as hondata. some even say that once u got crome theres no need for hondata... though i do agree to a certain extent and plan on getting crome very soon... i still have full intentions of going hondata later on....crome is just a temporary solution to my current lack of tuning..and my engine is in desperate need of tuning...especially ignition tuning

http://www.tunewithcrome.com/home.html

avantech is a honda builder/tuner based in sri kembangan.. very reputable and known to produce some really powerful cars. at the moment their most powerful car is an EG Drag car...B18C-R Turbo pushing out about 620wHP on the dynojet

wat else u should focus on when buying an old car.. .the typical wear and tear... also check the door hinges.. when u open the door...make sure it doesnt drop.. and when u close it.. the "hook" goes in nicely... to fix u need to replace the door hinges.. which isnt that easy to find unless u get brand new (if possible)...and then theres also the bushings...ALL bushings.. recommend getting a complete kit aka full car... around RM1k siap pasang depending on the brand u buy.

some Y1 and S1 have LSDs in them...but yeah... 4.4FD to me is the best all rounder. N3E is basically the B18C-R gearbox with a 4.785 final drive...id still prefer the 4.4 though...had a friend with B18C-R and 4.7fd... said ratios were too close..he still prefers the 4.4...n i gotta agree with him... best ratio for all...

plonking in ur own B18C-R...dont really need the gearbox if ur already on a B-series VTEC....basically just replace the old engine with the B18C-R and use back everything else including the gearbox....

one thing to take note.. gearbox transplants into EFs isnt that direct... EFs are built for clutch cable.. and everything after is clutch pump...Y1 and S1 bolt in directly.. YS1 requires some knocking to the chassis to make abit of space to fit the bigger gearbox housing. every other gearbox is clutch pump.. which means ull need to get a conversion kit.. either from cable to pump...or pump to cable..

and since u mention ur a student...i assume this will be ur daily runabout? i think i should advise u against getting a honda entirely.. B series may be reliable...but they do have their issues..and if its gonna be ur daily runabout, itll mean that ull be parking ur car practically everywhere... and hondas are getting stolen way too much lately...especially EGs n EKs.. EFs not much....but there has been a couple of cases that i know about.


QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 8 2012, 04:25 AM)
From the picture, I think 28K is overpriced for it. The car has damn near zero rare parts, and the fact that it has ANY replica parts at all, I would automatically stay away from it, because if the owner doesn't love the car enough to use original parts, I wonder what kind of motor oil and maintenance he put in the car. Actually never mind, I think I already know.
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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 8 2012, 03:04 PM)
And from you say you think you already know what kind of maintenance and motor oil he uses in his car, what do you mean by that? O:
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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 9 2012, 02:17 AM)
Just means that the maintainance and motor oil probably 'cincai' already.
For 28K, keep looking for a more pristine EF. It's out there somewhere.
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ANY EF for 28k is overpriced imho....unless it has a K in it like i said..hahahahaaha

anyway... i got fake parts too in my car... but im super anal when it comes to maintenance.. tongue.gif

i also dont keep service records...hahahhahaha

the car in the ad may not have many rare parts...but rare parts to me isnt wat makes the price worth it or not.. to me this car already has the B18C-R and gearbox...and OBD1.. me is liking that OBD1 biggrin.gif...but yeah...it really is overpriced.



QUOTE(zenix @ Jul 8 2012, 01:27 PM)
just wanna ask an opinion if get a prelude is it better to mod the original 2.2 engine or do K20 or K24 swap? i'm more inclined to K20 since roadtax cheaper.
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stick to the H22A... going K is expensive..playing K is also expensive...i dunno the difference in roadtax...but a K20 transplant is gonna cost u about 20k... halfcut alone is already 14k cheapest i found...so forking out that much money to save on road tax, dunno if its worth it or not.



QUOTE(ReidenLing @ Jul 8 2012, 05:40 PM)
EG EG


Added on July 8, 2012, 9:09 pmsad after sending my car for repair transmission leaking and oil sum leaking...all kao tim d now Engine Check light On pulak...aduhhhh
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apa error code?


QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 9 2012, 02:29 AM)
Owh on top of that, my budget is around 20-24k... :/

However that owner is willing to release for 26k. Not worth right for the spec he has for the car? Only downside is the body rust. :/ surface rust to be specific. And also a rust hole in the boot area. Owh well...
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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 9 2012, 11:18 AM)
if your budget is around there,  look for 20k price efs, put aside that 4k for repairs. Usually no matter how pristine, will have some minor repairs to do. Worse case scenario where after buying, gearbox synchros mampos. Not to mentions other maintainance when u start driving it around.
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agreed... get a car for 20k, balance to repair etc....or mebbe a much better security system with GPS tracking n immobilizer as well.


QUOTE(Kirie @ Jul 8 2012, 09:18 PM)
anyone got kaki, which pomen can upgrade my City TYpe Z front disc brake to bigger disc like on EK?

different knuckle & caliper with EK btw
tq
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maddriver's garage... look for a forumer here with the nick maddriver...hes based at the mines.....

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 9 2012, 12:56 PM
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 12:05 AM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 9 2012, 03:20 PM)
Hmmmm. Guess that ef should be out of my list? :/


Added on July 9, 2012, 6:54 pmhttp://www.mudah.my/Honda+Civic+EF-16370644.htm

And is this EF good? Some of his spec:

Enjin b16a head b16a piston baru, seal baru, cam gsr, spring type r, hassport
mounting usa, arp headstud, wiring dc2 p73, meter dc2, seat crx EF8, linkage
EF8 bushing spoon, short shift jasma, tanabe sustec adjustable suspension,
gearbox Y1 LSD, clutch 6 kaki custom, works fuel regulator, tayar potenza
RE002. Dan banyak lagi...
Owh he also said 19k nego... Hmm only downside is no EF9 bodyparts and a set of nice wheels. Mehhh ahah :/
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common problems would be IACV.. distributor.. VTEC solenoid leak... gearbox syncro....

n the car u posted looks good...me likes...hasport and arp...yummy.. looks as if it only needs an EF9 bumper and ur good to go... perhaps a J's Racing spoiler (i have a friend who sells this)... rims...subjective of course....

n perhaps get rid of that jasma short shifter tongue.gif

n can always shove in a B18C-R or B20B later on....

and for 19k...this would definitely be on my list.
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 12:20 PM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 10 2012, 12:38 AM)
Owh so are those problems common? Hmmm his chassis looks good right? Yeap only thing left is an EF9 bumper and respray the hood. Hmmmm alright i will go view the car then. smile.gif ermmm my plans are to get a B16B block, S4C tranny, with ORC clutch and also the clutch pump with the assembly. Hmmm....
Rims im planning to get my friend's set of meisters S1 16x7. smile.gif calculated cost for the block, gb and clutch is about 6.5k for hardware. Installation and everything should be about 1.5k... I think la. Hahahah.

Any advice on this take? Lolllll...
Owh ya definitely will get rid of the jasma short shifter tongue.gif And also about the J's racing spoiler, does it look good on EFs?
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yeah im liking that car...but B16B? why B16B? why not B18C terus? no replacement for displacement brows.gif but if u wanna stick to the B16... id just get the B16B pistons and cams and shove in to the B16A.. which will be good for about 160-170whp

id get a B18C and do the ECU (mebbe e-manage) first n foremost...complete it with a skunk2 or type r intake manifold and s90 throttle body as well. then the gearbox with an Exedy/Trinity clutch (which is about RM1k)....should be a decent start....ORC can be added later on...or if u just get some cheapo stock clutch n use first pun boleh.

as for the gearbox..no need to get the clutch pump assembly... u can get a clutch pump gearbox and convert it to cable...hasport has a kit for it for about RM1xx if not mistaken...and better to stick to cable oso... coz ive heard clutch pumps can leak if u use with clutches like ORC or OS...but clutch cable, ur leg will be suffering la laugh.gif

n yes.. J's racing spoiler and front lip to me is the best kit for the EF...coincidentally my friend sells both of these...as well as a few other EF stuff coz hes a hardcore EF kaki...

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


personally i would love to get the J's rear wing and front lip for my EG Hatch as well...


QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 12:51 AM)
Have a friend using crome, it's essentially like chipping your ecu, except the chip has your "custom tune" map inside.

Depends on how high you can rev your engine actually. I tried 9K rev limit B18c and 8k rev limit b18C. If you don't have 9K rpm, 4.7 will make gears feel short. In the case of B20B, 4.4 feels short for daily driving lol. I shift from 1-5 from traffic light at 1-3K rpm, takes me all of 10 secs. 2 secs per gear (light throttle, slow normal driving la)

For me, better he stick with non-hydraulic G/box, unless he can buy/modify in hydraulic gearbox since that costs $$$

Oh ORC clutch. I'm not a fan of racing clutches for daily driving. I'm using Exedy Stage 1 organic also damn leceh already.
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did u manage to get any feedback from ur friend about the crome? who did his tuning?

my friends B18C-R was stock with the 4.7fd... n yeah... i gotta agree with the B20 n 4.4... even now when cruising on highways....when im at fifth gear i feel like im still in 3rd... every now n then i put the gear to neutral n push it back to fifth....just to be sure laugh.gif

unfortunately choices for cable gbs are limited to 3... Y1 and S1 which has the 4.2fd... and the YS1 which is 4.4... problem is... 4.2fd is.....is............is......eeerrrr......eeerrr.......abit tak syiok la.... and YS1 is very rare as its only produced for 1-2 years max... and u know la the pricing for rare honda stuff....plus that gb is so old... u dunno the condition of the internals especially the syncros....it might even be cheaper to get a hydro gb n put it in...n as mentioned above... hasport has a kit to convert hydro gbs to use cable....those kits will add some bling to ur engine bay man...my mech did it to a CRX once with an S80... damn good looking kit too

ive gone through the whole racing clutch for daily use with my ex-EF....somemore i was on cable...it reached a point where i only drive the car at night (mainly due to my a/c being utterly useless)...and NEVER into KL town laugh.gif every other time i just ride my kapchai.

nowadays, im on stock type r clutch...bang for buck n comfy hahahahha....getting too old liao....but i do plan on getting a clutch with more bite... coz that minor "slip" when shifting at redline abit tak syiok la...i miss that "lompat" feeling when shifting at redline... heheheh

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 12:20 PM
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 10 2012, 01:44 PM)
ermmmm he is using a B16A block equipped with oversized wiseco pistons. But the cr is 9:1... The reason he gave was because the block had scratches in the cylinder wall thats why he rebored it... hmmm isnt B18C alot more expensive? and also S80 gbs are more expensive than the S4C gbs... isn't it? hmmm

alright lets say i would love to use a clutch pumped gb, what do i need to do? Don't i just need to get the gb, pump, slave pump, and a set of pedals from DC2 or something? I don't really understand how it works tho. read a few forum posts on honda-tech. Don't quite understand... what does the conversion kit do? i've seen conversion kits from cable to pump? but lets say i bought a hydro tranny, why do i still need the conversion kit? Please guide me. thankss.

Getting the clutch pumped gb and convert it into cable, is there any disadvantage to this besides having a heavier clutch feel? But i myself would prefer the clutch pump idea than the cable idea... hmmm

alright do let me know about your friend whose selling those J's racing parts. (: anyways, any yamcha session? hahahah would it be easier if all of us meet up? But i sure feel ps cause im like the youngest..... /:

And also i've checked the pricing for a B16B block, around 1.6k, S4C with spoon lsd 2.2k, with normal lsd at other shop selling 2.3k. with racing lsd selling for 2.8k. lol S80 im not really sure about the pricing but for the J4D ones should be around 3k? is it? or about the same as S4C gbs?
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the rebore part is understandable...and wiseco...nice...but abit odd as to why 9.1cr only when the stock is 10.2...i would have gone even higher...not sure about pricing of B16B block...never asked before...gearbox wise u could just get the S4C.... if ur nearby shah alam etc.. i could intro u to a friend who deals with type r parts..his business is purely type r parts.

i dont know the specific details of it but i do it can be done... best to get a reputable builder to work on it. ull need a conversion kit coz like i mentioned.. the EF was built for cable.. one main issue about clutch pumps in EF is space.. not much space to mount everything.

i strongly suggest getting a car first... drive it around for awhile...see if theres anything not right with it n get it fixed.. especially with bushings n engine mounts.

was thinking of calling for a yum char/tt session... unfortunately my engine is in pieces at the moment in the workshop... so later later la laugh.gif
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:25 PM)
clutch pump leakage is normal lah, usually the seals koyak, but if new, no problem. I also would recommend getting braided clutch lines simply because its cheap, lol. I'm running Goodrich ones, if forgot how much I bought it for when new, but it was cheap.
I even drove back the car from KL with my friend, quite good actually. Tuning was done by Ah Loo, at Siong VTEC's old shop place. Stroked B16B. Got knocking at low end sometimes, but I guess that one is due to temp difference, since tuned during rainy season, so when hot, sometimes got knocking, but only at low end.
Heard Avantech last time also had Crome tuning, dunno now still got or not.
Stock with 4.7 is good enough what, just need to set rpm to 9.5K, but only use that max limit for 1st and 2nd.
Agree, type R clutch still the best for daily driving.
If your clutch slips at high rpm, I'm guessing you didn't resurface the flywheel when putting in new clutch. Also, I had that problem once too, turns out the pressure spring on the clutch cover already gone case, since I bought the clutch second hand, but with the new clutch pads.
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yeah thought about the clutch hoses... i bought a brand new Russell clutch hose from a friend for about RM180....but unfortunately the heads didnt fit... so had to return it...my mech said he can do a custom braided hose....a long one where hell get rid of the metal tubes so the hose can be routed and tucked nicely... about RM120 iirc.

Avantech still does Crome.. if ur OBD1 has been re-chipped itll cost RM550 with 1 hour on the dyno... if ECU has never been chipped add 100 to do the base. as for Ah Loo... heard this name before... even have a friend with the name Ah Loo...but dunno if he does tuning or not..hahahha

my clutch came with the car when i bought it... right now couldnt be bothered much with it since i rarely redline these days.....coz im planning on getting a better clutch that comes with flywheel....like the ORC or Exedy Hyper Single......


Added on July 10, 2012, 2:38 pm
QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:34 PM)
Spoon LSD? That's a clutch type LSD, VERY NICE when the clutch packs are still okay, DAMN LOUSY when it's worn out. My friend once had one, at first nice, but after a while, bleh, feel like open diff.
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yeah....thats the problem with clutch type... they wear out... quite fast too...

id rather just get the type r helical lsd honestly...

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 02:38 PM
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:39 PM)
Just buy new from Chris at Pentagon, that's where I bought mine. I bought mine long long time ago, so dunno the price now.
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if i ever buy anything from Chris...itll probably be K-Tuned stuff laugh.gif

but naah...id rather get custom... dun wanna end up like the Russell, where the ends didnt fit..

besides...Pentagon is so far away from Shah Alam...n my mechanic is in Shah Alam hahahahhaha
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post Jul 10 2012, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:41 PM)
Heh, I already ordered a few bits from him. Fuel filter to convert my fuel system to full AN, and K conversion kit for my friend. All from K-tuned.
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the conversion kit is from K-Tuned? the one with the wire harness, shifter box etc etc??

and have u checked the price on the K-Tuned B/D series shifter?? been interested in that or the FLP shifter for quite awhile now
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:45 PM)
B/D series shifter no stock, chris asked me if worth to bring in. I said no, lol, because the type R's 20-25mm throw is short enough. Unless you want to the shifter stick really high like those track cars, since can adjust to maintain short throw after lengthening. Price should be about RM500 or so.

Yeah, the stage one conversion kit. He's anal about the wiring, so instead of going custom, he's buying a complete dash harness. No confirmation if need to lengthen wires for RHD, so consider guinea pig la.
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i thought its in already? RM500 is not bad.. n yeah i want my gear high while maintaining short throws...im currently on dc2-r shifter with custom circuit-hero-like 4" extender... cant imagine going back to a short stick shifter.

n if u think my current or the K-Tuned shifter is high...u should check out the FLP shifter...hahahahha



n i iz envy ur friend... going into an EG? where is he getting his swap done?

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 02:49 PM
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 02:51 PM)
Well, I was referring to FLP shifter. First time encounter these kinds of shifter was from C-speed. C-speed looks nice, but the bottom broke on a friend's ride. Had to fabricate replacement from a machine shop. Now up and running again.

About the billet K tuned shifter, I was at chris's place 2-3 weeks ago. no stock then.
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wait wait...im confused.. i was asking about K-Tuned B/D shifter..ie this one..

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


not the billet shifter box for K-series...

and FLP shifter i meant this one

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


which one u meant about the RM500? and which one did u say not worth to bring in?

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 02:59 PM
TSmADmAN
post Jul 10 2012, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 03:16 PM)
Just got quotation for OEM EG9 Lower control arms. RM480 per piece. Looks like I'm going poly or sphericals. Dafuq with that OEM price.
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wats wrong with ur LCAs? if its just bushing no need to change the whole arm mah

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 04:22 PM
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post Jul 10 2012, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 04:53 PM)
Jdm style arms. My friend says jacking out the bush can warp the arms.  At that price, i'd rather add a few hundred more and get F7s
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gotta agree... 480 per piece is ridiculous... F7 is about RM1.4k thereabouts

as for jacking out the bush... if done properly its ok la...some DIYers actually burn the old bush out of the arms. but a proper bench press can get the bushes out easily... if ur using stock arms, then ull have hell of alot of choices... unlike me.. gotta go for custom bushings...
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post Jul 10 2012, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 10 2012, 05:40 PM)
dunno yet. I am going to custom fabricate catch can with full AN fittings and a custom bend intake pipe. Depending on how much that costs, its either poly bushes or F7s lcas.

Use skunk2 lca la. I ordered for my friend last year the bushes. 150 for a set of lower arms incl. Postage

i think price was usd10 for two halves.

If s2 did the eyelet type lca, i would have bought long time ago.


Added on July 10, 2012, 5:52 pmI'm considering bringing in a bunch of those bushes,  but the v2 bushes are lasting. I ordered 20 the first time,  all sold out. Nobody inquiring so i didn't order anymore
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im already on Blox LCA.. n of course.. their bushings koyak... got them replaced with custom Soft PU bushes.. hell of alot better actually....been a year + and still holding strong even after track day.

by right... the bushes for S2 are lifetime warranty...if not mistaken if u contact them, theyll send u a new set FOC or so i was told.

personally, the only LCA brands i would go for would be hardrace, s2, f7 and bwr.. dun care that bwr is a copy of f7..but their bushings are decent and also lifetime warranty..hahaha
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post Jul 10 2012, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 10 2012, 09:19 PM)
Checked and viewed the red EF i posted earlier. Alot of bodywork and its an ED chassis... :/

Mehhh
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wat do u mean by bodywork?

even if its ED...if ur confident in the chassis then by all means get it...

i think ur gonna have to be willing to travel out of state to get a car...and i also think ur gonna have to start considering EG 4 doors.. hahahahha

my car oso i bought from JB... friend of a friend.. bought the car without even seeing it though..hahhahaaa

btw...have u looked at THIS?? looks pretty clean

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 10 2012, 10:26 PM
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post Jul 10 2012, 10:36 PM

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yeah its supposed to be slightly slanted.
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post Jul 11 2012, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 11 2012, 12:20 AM)
Saw, asked owner too. But he didnt reply...
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y r u not getting replies? are u calling or smsing?

if ur smsing... then call... if ur calling... then call again and leave and sms
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post Jul 11 2012, 06:36 PM

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i need to get a heatshield done for my airfilter...but damn malas wanna DIY la.. any idea where can make n how much???
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post Jul 11 2012, 09:14 PM

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speedworks mahal la... i kinda need a custom job.. coz of my intake setup... speedworks one usually whole kit with the K&N and rampipe etc
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post Jul 12 2012, 12:44 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 11 2012, 10:51 PM)
It wpuld be interesting to note that i datalogged intake air temperature (IAT) on my hondata before.  At high speeds, having or not having a heat shield is unimportant. If ambient temp is high,  thats the lowest it will go. Its primarily for slow speeds or cars with full diffuser at bottom of chassis. If open like our eg. No difference.

I think length more important. Thats why i'm doing custom length for mine.  22" according to maf sensor testing (own method)

if still want,  try velocity fabrication at sunway. They make anything
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interesting...but one thing im not liking is that the radiator fan is blowing hot air right into my filter/filter area...

22" will mean the filter is still in the bay or r u gonna bring it down into the wheel well behind the bumper?

velocity fabrication eh... never heard of them..will check them out. do provide any link if u can.


QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 12 2012, 12:01 AM)
Viewed an EF9 today, are all EF9s equipped with sunroof?
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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 12 2012, 10:36 AM)
Sunroof/moonroof option. I don't really like moonroof or sunroof, it's an extra spot for leaks.
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as mentioned...its an optional item when buying the car new....better check with the owner about documentation...coz if ur installing a sunroof, it might require JPJ approval...i say might bcoz lately there was a letter going around saying no need already...

even though my car has a sunroof, i oso would prefer without... extra spot for leaks... and theyre also heavy.
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post Jul 12 2012, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(Mediocre2 @ Jul 12 2012, 03:23 PM)
saw that ad before... and i very very very the like wat im read...expect around 210-220whp on the dynojet...could be higher if the block is resleeved and bored to about 84+




n somehow my bekside very the itchy lately.. thinking of selling off my hatch and getting a bone stock 4-door EK (mebbe EG) and kasi bikin projek.. hahahhaha

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jul 12 2012, 03:32 PM
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post Jul 12 2012, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(sadako-chan @ Jul 12 2012, 04:16 PM)
Velocity fabrication is quite new (relatively la) they got cnc mill, and they open quite late into the evening. First time I went there to weld my exhaust, and I arrived late, they were the only one open till past 6pm.

Got a lot of custom fabrication parts they make, like lower control arms, but for load bearing components, I don't trust billet stuff that much.

You can ask around sunway, I forgot what road they're on. lol. I drove around and found it still open.  laugh.gif

22" still in engine bay. I'm using Accord's OEM pipe at the moment, but going to fab a custom bend one so it looks neater. Daily driver, don't do the AEM long intake style. Sure one of these days kena hydrolock. The AEM intake got optional part called bypass valve to prevent hydrolock. A lot of people don't buy that part, but if kena water puddle, sure fakap one.
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yeah i know about the bypass valve.. even did abit of research into it to see if i can make a DIY one.. possible to do..but abit the leceh so dropped it..hahahah

n the whole AEM CAI inclusive bypass aint cheap.. about 1.4k iirc.. friend ordered it.. n i think he might be considering selling it off since he went with SRI and velocity stack.



man i havent seen my car since saturday...dunno siap already or not or if they didnt even touch it at all.. haih....i miss Banshee...

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