The ability to keep a clean sheet is worrysome.
Since the season start, only 2 clean sheet achieved, and out of the 2 clean sheet, opponent was playing with 10 men.

Mind games? Nope. Not at all. Seeing our record against your team in Anfield were pretty much poor, I do think Fergie rather have a point than no point at all. Thus, he went for the safest route he knows. Resting main players and rotated the squad.
I couldn't understand why people are blaming Skrtel for Hernandez's goal. For all we know, Hernandez is even troublesome to Mr. Captain, Leader & Legend John Terry. IMO, Vidic himself might be having problems with Hernandez.

Goodness, there are sour grapes whenever things doesn't go one's way. That's part and parcel of the game. And again, IMO, Benitez is more of a sour grape when he claimed that Fergie won the league by spending a lot.

Just to add a few 'notes'.

Regarding that Suarez-Evra incident, just let the FA investigate first. It is either one of them is wrong. Before anyone saying anything about Evra, Suarez himself is not really a saint. Please read don't retaliate because it's quite pointless and the debate will go on and on and on.

1. Even the linesman saw fit to disrespect Liverpool by disallowing an offside goal scored by Luis Suarez, who was carded himself for repeatedly calling the assistant a filthy Spanish word. With Liverpool down to nine it was time for cool heads, so Suarez was hauled off and on came that paragon of virtue Craig Bellamy.

2. Suarez also insisted he "respects everybody". Why don't we ask Otman Bakkal, or the entire nation of Ghana?

The same thing applies to your players, complaining after the match about us diving and saying the word n***er. If the referee actually knew about Suarez saying that word, wouldn't he be yellow carded? Correct me if I'm wrong

This incident isn't exactly new to Evra as well, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...dge-battle.html

Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite sex. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.

On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him. Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.

Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.

The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.

Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that it wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.

In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.

In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.

In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”

So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.

Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and the Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.

As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.

“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.

If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible if they have, as has been reported, called for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.

The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. The 1999 Macpherson Report in Britain concluded that “There is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.

Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.

Yeah, but have any of you really like done your research(referring to Duke's method before posting)?
So, my suggestion is to keep our trap shut before the verdict is out. Like I've said, there's no point in arguing right left and centre.

And I did mention regarding sourgrapes earlier, didn't I? There are always sourgrapes after any outcome of any matches. So, why are you surprised? I thought you lots have been watching football far more longer than any other teams set of supporters? It's part and parcel of the process.

And I also pointed out, if you really want to take a look at the biggest sourgrape of all, take a look at Rafa Benitez(yeah, I know like he's a cult hero in here). But that doesn't hide the fact that he is.

instead of writing essay here, i mean in Liverpool's thread, which is commonly sense - for Liverpool's fans, why dont u just post it in MU thread?or make a blog for it, wise man said dont put anymore gasoline in a fire, it will turn bigger LOL

Well, I'm in for a good discussion. I simply provide my opinions with some homework. And here I thought, you lots will be more sensible group of people to discuss with as most of you claimed that United fans aren't mature enough?

Guess, I am wrong eh? Oh well.

Bah, healthy discussions are a thing of the past now. There are few who can contribute a good read like this in forums. By all means, discuss away. Your point of view helps those willing to know more about football and it's history.

Yeah, but have any of you really like done your research(referring to Duke's method before posting)?
So, my suggestion is to keep our trap shut before the verdict is out. Like I've said, there's no point in arguing right left and centre.

And I did mention regarding sourgrapes earlier, didn't I? There are always sourgrapes after any outcome of any matches. So, why are you surprised? I thought you lots have been watching football far more longer than any other teams set of supporters? It's part and parcel of the process.

And I also pointed out, if you really want to take a look at the biggest sourgrape of all, take a look at Rafa Benitez(yeah, I know like he's a cult hero in here). But that doesn't hide the fact that he is.

Well, I'm in for a good discussion. I simply provide my opinions with some homework. And here I thought, you lots will be more sensible group of people to discuss with as most of you claimed that United fans aren't mature enough?

Guess, I am wrong eh? Oh well.

Yeah, but have any of you really like done your research(referring to Duke's method before posting)?
So, my suggestion is to keep our trap shut before the verdict is out. Like I've said, there's no point in arguing right left and centre.

And I did mention regarding sourgrapes earlier, didn't I? There are always sourgrapes after any outcome of any matches. So, why are you surprised? I thought you lots have been watching football far more longer than any other teams set of supporters? It's part and parcel of the process.

And I also pointed out, if you really want to take a look at the biggest sourgrape of all, take a look at Rafa Benitez(yeah, I know like he's a cult hero in here). But that doesn't hide the fact that he is.

Mind games? Nope. Not at all. Seeing our record against your team in Anfield were pretty much poor, I do think Fergie rather have a point than no point at all. Thus, he went for the safest route he knows. Resting main players and rotated the squad.

I couldn't understand why people are blaming Skrtel for Hernandez's goal. For all we know, Hernandez is even troublesome to Mr. Captain, Leader & Legend John Terry. IMO, Vidic himself might be having problems with Hernandez.

It was just a misunderstanding, Suarez told Evra "I own you" and Evra took him literally.

Lol, read this comment on soccernet on the racism thingy:

haiya, watch rugby more fun, no stress, wallabies kena whack, all support all blacks, hehehehehe

Lol, read this comment on soccernet on the racism thingy: