Let's put things in perspective shall we? First off, we didn't claim to be the "real reds", it's you mancs that do. Like I pointed out in a post yesterday however, we first wore red in 1892 while you lot only did in 1902, duh!

Secondly, I agree with redshaun on the comment about there being many retards. Now, I'll gladly put my hand up if we had lost, I have always done so but last night we came out guns blazing in the 2nd half. There is no argument who played better but fairplay, you don't always win although you played the better game. Sometimes you need to grind out a result. If the situation were reversed, only a dumb f*** manc would agree that they didn't play better, and there are many out there unfortunately i.e. young punks supporting the flavour of the month, giving real fans a bad bad name.

It was a stonewall penalty in my opinion. How Andre Marriner failed to spot it is beyond my comprehension. My mates were arguing that it was ball to hand? Fooking hell, really? Evans was at least 5 yards away from Kuyt and he left his hand there. So if Pepe had launched a rocket from inside our on half and Evans left his hand there, it would still be ball to hand? That's retarded. Biased opinion. Am I complaining however? No, it happens. Sometimes you get the rub of the green and sometimes you don't. It just pisses me off that my mates won't admit it. I mean Downing dived, I admit to it so be a man and fess up. It was a penalty and it wasn't given but that's how games go and over 38 games, your luck evens out.

1) If Man U had a penalty because of Enrique then we should have gotten a penalty as well - the ref set a precedent he should (and did) follow
2) Suarez and Downing did dive, no one disputed that. Suarez is known to be a bad boy. Adam did NOT dive, he made a meal of the challenge, but the very fact that there was a challenge indicates that it wasn't a dive, it was a clumsy and lazy challenge by Ferdinand.
3) You and everyone else know very well what we mean when we say 'mancs' - no need to point out the obvious
4) I agreed that Smalling did superbly well against Downing, Enrique however, gave smalling some trouble.
5) Liverpool did well is shutting off Young (who IMO has been Man U's best player apart from Rooney).

at the end of the day Im happy with the result and so should manu fans. Fergie got it wrong for not fielding the trio.

If you read my comments earlier you'd note that I said Downing dived and Suarez does play act. No arguments from me. Can't fathom why some of your kin can't admit to the same thing.

As for the handballs it is in my honest opinion that Enrique's was a case of ball to hand. Even your own players didn't protest which speaks volumes. You may say I'm biased but I've always called it like I see it. I've always fessed up if I thought we were lucky or if one of ours dived.

Mancs to me are fans of youse. Even if you google the definition, there isn't a conclusive one. Hence I'll use it as I see fit. If you do google it's definition you'll find some less than wonderful definitions and even I won't use them.

The first half was 50-50 but the fact that we give De Gea praise says we had the better chances in the second half. When did Pepe have to make a save. I don't think it's that hard to show a little humility.

hahahahhaa......u sure smalling pawned them??? u actually watch the match? he committed a schoolboy error one on one against suarez when sliding in and get nth in the end.

anyway. its good alone to see Gerrard bac and scoring.and undermine how important he is to our gameplay.and even more so when you know the supposedly best team in the country came into our field afraid of losing a match.  

enrique 'hand' ball was like ball to shoulder to hand. while evans is more clear ball to hand. though i personally think it didnt matter much when the ref not giving the penalty for both coz i think kinda soft penalty to give.

evra has been playing the 'race' card couple of times before. and all was ruled out. and i dont think suarez is a racist though.. he played in eradivise for quite a while to be a racist prick... banyak nigres sana. lol.

at 1st when i saw the line up..i was shock also...more into try to snatch a goal before Sir Alex sub in Rooney and Hernandez....thats why i hope my team can score 1 or 2 goals before Sir Alex bring in the duo. Then i realize there will be and important game on the next midweek? (well im not aware of Man Utd fixture)

    i still cant believe he save the ball from Kuyt and Henderson...

i dont know the exactly 'had them in their pockets' if Smailing prevent Downing and Enrique to cross, then i can say our Kelly had Ashley Young in his pockets too.

All and all, did we agree yesterday Man Utd was below par,  cause i think Man Utd benchmark is winning, So not winning is below the benchmark rite?

The biggest win yesterday came before a single ball was kicked. The moment I saw the line up I knew this tie was ours to lose.

Mr. Ferguson plain old chickened out and gave Liverpool the respect of a champion with that line up. I wouldn't say he was terrified, but he certainly was afraid of being himself.

MU fans, feel free to weigh in here, knowing Mr. Ferguson, if given the chance to stick one into his most hated rival and give them a proper hiding, would he have done it? Be true to yourself here. We all know how much he hates Liverpool and given the chance, he would stick a knife into anything Liverpool. But he was too scared to do it. He wanted to play it safe. He would rather a draw and keep a bit of morale going into the CL and the derby. Cause if he fields a full team and gets slaughtered, his head would be on the line come City time.

He was scared. He gave us the respect of a champion. That gives me a genuine cause to be optimistic.

Fair enough. Basically he wasn't confident of a win with his full team so he went with a defensive line up to go for a draw and hopefully nick a win. We both could speculate all we want as we are not Ferguson so is understandable if we differ. No emo.

I must say I was surprised when I saw your starting lineup. I can understand the need to rest players every now and then and although I agree we aren't exactly contenders for the title, it is still rare for managers to rest players in derbies of this magnitude. Fergie himself mentioned how much importance this tie holds prior to the game. It's also the first time I can remember him selecting such a cautious lineup in your visits to Anfield.

I'm still sticking to my Michael Moores theory that it was partly due to mind games from Kenny and Rafa. The former saying it was just another 3 points and the latter claiming you keep winning because of money I don't agree but if you're playing mind games, you don't always mean what you say.

Oh well. Que sera sera.

With the big match has ended over the weekend, lets look forward for another performing match against the newcomers , Norwich City on Sunday morning (Saturday 17:30 GMT).

Need to improve? We need a lethargic start, sloppy passes has to be improved into accurate passes. Although we played confident game over the weekend, we need more energetic start. I understand the international games has caused the problem, but it should not be an excuses all the time.

Where's the free-flow-move passing gone?, we need to improve on the free-flow-pass-and-move back into the game. The lack of incisive movement played an equally important role in the lack of forward passes, there were no barnstorming runs from the center of the park, and no razor-sharp vision to find the diagonal balls to the wings. The key for Kenny Dalglish and his coaching team now is to help our side unlock a stifling midfield.

Defensive Errors? Yes, it was an overall solid defensive performance. Yes, our defenders and midfielders restricted United to just two shots on target all afternoon. Skrtel has failed to mark his man towards the run to the equalizer. We've only kept 2 clean sheet thus far, this needs addressing.

Chances created & converted? Game after game, the frustration isn't as much about the chances we create, but the lack of finishing ability to convert them. KD should have opted to bring in Bellamy as he has the finishing ability which would be able to kill off the United game. Unfortunately, we couldn't see the reason why KD has not brought him in even for 5 mins.

Reliance on Suarez is a biggest mistake, as we need to improve as a team play rather than a one-man-show. The frustration of unable to convert chances into goal could bring him lot more pressure and to raise his tempers , as we know how good he is at it. The positive thing here is , the Captain is back with a bang. That was a top notch free kick. His typical way of scoring freekick , where we could have seen all the thunder bolt shots in his young days, this is top CLASS ! and he is capable of scoring important goals.

Full backs performance was top notch on Saturday and we defended well for the entire game, until the 80th min. Kelly , Carra, Enrique in particular played their part. Well done!. Skrtel, you need more lesson from Carra / Kelly / Enrique. I hope Coates gets his games soon. Resurgence as a team was on the card, we have shown that we can beat anyone if we all the above improved.

Well done ! Looking forward for Norwich City's visit this weekend.

YNWA !

The same thing applies to your players, complaining after the match about us diving and saying the word n***er. If the referee actually knew about Suarez saying that word, wouldn't he be yellow carded? Correct me if I'm wrong

This incident isn't exactly new to Evra as well, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...dge-battle.html

Football can do a lot of things. It can turn completely stable people into emotional wrecks, it can play with our emotions like nothing else, save perhaps a member of the opposite sex. In short, it’s a very powerful thing. One thing it should not do, however, is to change our perspective. Not footballing perspective, of course you should feel free to argue that your team is better than my team, your fans are louder than my fans, your grass is greener than our grass. But our general perspective, such as the ability to analyse a serious claim, should be unmoved by which football team we hope scores more goals than the other.

On Saturday, Patrice Evra of Manchester United accused Luis Suarez of Liverpool of making racist remarks towards him. Unfortunately, though the ‘of”s in the previous sentence should not be of importance, they have been made so. It has become about football. This is not an incident about football. It took place on a football pitch, between two men wearing football shirts, but it’s not about football. To bastardise a famous Bill Shankly quote, it’s much more important than that.

Immediately after the allegations were made, a lot of people reacted based on which team they supported. United fans were quick to label Suarez a racist, with certainty, whilst Liverpool fans accused Evra of lying, also with certainty.

The latter however, took a somewhat more sinister form. Liverpool fans, and employees, claimed Evra had a history of playing the ‘race card’. For those who don’t know, the race card refers to exploitation of racist attitudes to gain a personal advantage, typically by falsely accusing others of racism against oneself. In essence, they were saying Evra had in the past lied about being targeted by racial abuse. A very serious claim, I’m sure you’ll agree. It stands to reason that if it is a serious thing to claim racist abuse, it is also a serious thing to claim someone has lied about claiming racial abuse.

Liverpool’s official website columnist, Kristian Walsh, claimed on Twitter that “Patrice Evra has accused racism of three players before today. All three have been cleared.” This tweet was retweeted by hundreds of Liverpool fans, as were similar ones. The problem was, that it wasn’t remotely true, not one bit.

In fact, before Saturday, Evra had accused zero people of racism, not the three quoted by Mr. Walsh and dozens of other Liverpool fans, not two, nor even one. There have been two incidents involving Evra and accusations of racial insults, the only problem is that Evra did not claim in either that he was racially abused – the claims came from others.

In the 2006 case of claimed racial abuse by Steve Finnan, the accusation was levelled at Finnan by a deaf fan who claimed he lip-read the racial slur. Evra declined to complain. A rather odd thing to do for a man with a supposed inclination to play the race card, I’m sure you’ll agree.

In the case with involving Chelsea groundsman, Tony Bethell, it was Mike Phelan and Richard Hartis of Manchester United’s coaching staff who claimed they heard the abuse. As the FA report says “The two witnesses who say they heard those words directed by Mr Bethell at Mr Evra are the Manchester United first team coach Mr Mike Phelan and the goalkeeping coach Mr Richard Hartis.” It later goes on to say “Even if we disregard the fact that Mr Evra has never claimed to have heard such a remark on that day, it is notable that there were several other people far nearer to Mr Bethell at the critical point in time than were either Mr Phelan or Mr Hartis.”

So in reality, Evra accused neither Finnan nor Bethell of a racist remark. The claims were done by others. These are the cold, hard facts.

Liverpool is a club that has been hit hard by lies in the past, namely by the despicable Kelvin Mackenzie and the Sun. One might therefore assume that their fans would be careful to ensure that they themselves endeavor to have the full facts of any case emerge. Of course, accusations of racism against Luis Suarez and accusations of the actions of fans on a day where 96 people died are on different scales, however the principle should remain. If in one instance you abhor lies being told where an accusation is made, you should probably endeavor not do so yourself in another instance.

As I touched on earlier, Manchester United fans who have assumed Suarez’s guilt are also worthy of scorn. Just as a lot of Liverpool fans would have reacted differently if Glen Johnson had accused Nemanja Vidic of racist remarks, so too would a lot United fans. Perhaps even incidents involving Johnson and “playing the race card” would have been fabricated.

“Innocent until proven guilty” should not be a changeable stance. If that’s your belief, it’s your belief. It should not be changed because of which football team you prefer. Of course, just as important as “innocent until proven guilty” is that the lack of a guilty verdict does not necessarily mean innocence. In the 1998 adaption of the old play “12 Angry Men”, a juror slowly and painstakingly convinces his fellow jurors not to convict a seemingly guilty man. In the aftermath of the case, he is asked who he believed committed the murder. He replies, to the amazement of the queror, that he thinks it was probably the man he just convinced everyone to acquit.

If, which seems likely, there is found to be not enough evidence, or none, to prove Suarez made racist remarks, inevitably people will assume that Evra was lying. But surely if your initial requirement to the claims that Suarez was racist was “prove it”, the same logic should be applied to the claims that Evra was lying? A lack of proof does not mean an incident has not happened, it simply means it cannot be proven to have happened. As dangerous as it is to assume Suarez is guilty, it is equally as dangerous to conclude Evra is lying if it cannot be proven. It is for this reason that Liverpool as a club have been irresponsible if they have, as has been reported, called for a ban for Evra if the allegations can’t be proven.

The instant reaction of “he’s lying” to an accusation of racism is not only foolish, but dangerous. Chris Kamara has stated that he was frequently racially abused on the football pitch, but would not report it, as it would be impossible to prove and therefore he would not be believed. The 1999 Macpherson Report in Britain concluded that “There is a fear that when people do report incidents [of racism] they won’t be believed or it won’t be taken seriously”. It is therefore safe to assume that the reaction of people to a claim of racist abuse is quite important, and not merely footballing banter. We are talking about something that can have a severe knock-on effect for other people.

Football is a wonderful thing, but can also be a dangerous thing. When we as football fans are switching our moral views, assuming guilt or fabricating incidents based on the shirt a man is wearing, we have gone too far. We cannot and must not lose perspective because of it. As ridiculous as it is for a man who didn’t have another care in the world on Saturday at 12.45, it is only a game.

taking into account of dailymail's writings, you mean MU players call one of their own with "N" word?

if you admit, as in MU admit it officially, then Suarez is as 'guilty' as such.

Until it is proven it is a N word.
From what I interpret, it is a word commonly used in South America but offensive in England. But not revealed what word is that.

Wonder what took FA this long to come up with the charge.Maybe afraid of upsetting fergie.

anyway,finally someone says something about Kelly playing Centre-back.Isnt it about time we had a fast centre back?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news...lay-centre-back