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 Solar Power Generation, for home use/sell back to tnb

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TSJinXXX
post Sep 25 2011, 01:48 PM, updated 14y ago

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hi guys...

time to start looking at this, since tnb tariff is only gonna get higher and higher..

anybody have any experience in this ? in respect to using solar to

1. power lights (night light/security lights)

2. power fridge/ventilation fans/water pump

3. sell back extra to TNB or who ever that supplies the electricity


ozak
post Sep 25 2011, 11:55 PM

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Tnb tariff already up? Again?

Last month got survey form to fill up from some university guy past to us in my taman. Regarding poor respond about solar power generation and why. After read the form, seems like many red tape, cost and less advertise cause poor respond.

TSJinXXX
post Sep 26 2011, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 25 2011, 11:55 PM)
Tnb tariff already up? Again?
*
not yet.. dont think it will be cheaper... but i think solar technology will get cheaper as time goes on...

if you install a solar energy system you ROI in about 10 to 15 years..

if the tariff goes up then you ROI faster..
ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 09:10 AM

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The solar technology is not cheap in here. People are taking advantage now to gain more profit with solar product here. Even it is cheap.

At the moment in here RM11/watt for solar panel while I check outside example in Aus is RM8/watt.

But tnb not going to payback at what the price given now for on grid once getting more ppl instal. I learn this from aus gov now. t is just given you sweet now, tarik back later. So you got to calculate carefull the cost to invest.

One thing I still not understand with on grid supply back to tnb. If I do that, I need to invest more on solar beside my own consumption. Wouldn't that cost more?
ycs
post Sep 26 2011, 09:31 AM

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i wonder if a gen set is cost effective way to power your aircons and water heater compared to solar?
TSJinXXX
post Sep 26 2011, 09:57 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 26 2011, 09:10 AM)
One thing I still not understand with on grid supply back to tnb. If I do that, I need to invest more on solar beside my own consumption. Wouldn't that cost more?
*
this is more about, if you generate more than you use.. you can sell the surplus back to the utility company... but i doubt that...

QUOTE(ycs @ Sep 26 2011, 09:31 AM)
i wonder if a gen set is cost effective way to power your aircons and water heater compared to solar?
*
doubt that.. cause there is conversion loss already which make it not as efficient as it should be

gas > gen > power


ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(ycs @ Sep 26 2011, 09:31 AM)
i wonder if a gen set is cost effective way to power your aircons and water heater compared to solar?
*
Beside the noise, the fuel is killing you.

And don't forget the carbon dioxide is really killing you. tongue.gif


Added on September 26, 2011, 10:12 am
QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 26 2011, 09:57 AM)
this is more about, if you generate more than you use.. you can sell the surplus back to the utility company... but i doubt that...
doubt that.. cause there is conversion loss already which make it not as efficient as it should be
That is always ppl said. But in reality, do you really have that much cash for extra to buy the solar to generate back to tnb? And if you have extra to generate back, do the consumption is enough for you to take back ROI? hmm.gif If my daily comsumption is 1kw, how much kw solar do I need to buy for solar with extra to generate back to tnb?

Still many thing in doubt and really benifit us. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 26 2011, 10:12 AM
weikee
post Sep 26 2011, 10:16 AM

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A normal house Solar with push back to the Grid (contra) system is about 80k+-. I ask this last year. Earlier there was a subsidy from got and house owner pay about 1/2 of the cost, but is already end.

You need to change the TNB meter two two way. And all installation are approved by TNB and Gov.

You can go to TNB and ask, they have one small department doing this, but now think they focus on commercial.
TSJinXXX
post Sep 26 2011, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 26 2011, 10:00 AM)
That is always ppl said. But in reality, do you really have that much cash for extra to buy the solar to generate back to tnb? And if you have extra to generate back, do the consumption is enough for you to take back ROI?  hmm.gif If my daily comsumption is 1kw, how much kw solar do I need to buy for solar with extra to generate back to tnb?

Still many thing in doubt and really benifit us. hmm.gif
*
im not sure about that, that is why this is here for discussion smile.gif

QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 10:16 AM)
A normal house Solar with push back to the Grid (contra) system is about 80k+-. I ask this last year. Earlier there was a subsidy from got and house owner pay about 1/2 of the cost, but is already end.

You need to change the TNB meter two two way. And all installation are approved by TNB and Gov.

You can go to TNB and ask, they have one small department doing this, but now think they focus on commercial.
*
80k wow thats alot unless you have tons of roof area and high quality panels, dont think u can make much profit from selling to tnb...

now my bill is about 200 bux and i use a solar power to power my fridge/lights/aircond(at night), i can cut 200 bux and put that up into the cost

then at least electric bill is lower (min), thus from that way longer and longer term, you dont get affected by the rising tnb tariff..
ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 10:16 AM)
A normal house Solar with push back to the Grid (contra) system is about 80k+-. I ask this last year. Earlier there was a subsidy from got and house owner pay about 1/2 of the cost, but is already end.

You need to change the TNB meter two two way. And all installation are approved by TNB and Gov.

You can go to TNB and ask, they have one small department doing this, but now think they focus on commercial.
*
It don't look like encouraging and supporting from gov. Whitout much public know and realise, the prog already end. sad.gif

Have you done the calculaton and their detail explanation about this on grid?


Added on September 26, 2011, 10:42 am
QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 26 2011, 10:34 AM)
80k wow thats alot unless you have tons of roof area and high quality panels, dont think u can make much profit from selling to tnb...

now my bill is about 200 bux and i use a solar power to power my fridge/lights/aircond(at night), i can cut 200 bux and put that up into the cost

then at least electric bill is lower (min), thus from that way longer and longer term, you dont get affected by the rising tnb tariff..
*
That is off grid solar generate. I m thniking of this too. But not the whole house consumption as the investment is high. Maybe just start with some light.

This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 26 2011, 10:42 AM
weikee
post Sep 26 2011, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 26 2011, 10:39 AM)
It don't look like encouraging and supporting from gov. Whitout much public know and realise, the prog already end. sad.gif

Have you done the calculaton and their detail explanation about this on grid?
It was publish in the news paper, i read about it few years ago.

I don't want to calculate the ROI after hearing the numbers. I was expecting like 10k +-, but after the consultant told me is about 40k after gov subsidy I lost my interest. Hope the price have come down substantial.

Maybe we can install wind turbine instead biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by weikee: Sep 26 2011, 10:50 AM
TSJinXXX
post Sep 26 2011, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 10:50 AM)
Maybe we can install wind turbine instead biggrin.gif
*
wind turbine is noisy and to generate sufficient needs to be damn big..= ugly..

solar panel just sit on the roof, provides a second layer of thermal protection to the roof smile.gif

@osak , yeah maybe start with lights first would be better, install 120w panel with 2x 100AH batts power

maybe 2 or 3 18 watt Philips lights, cost would be around 3 to 5k i think for a simple project...

would be better is can totally power fridge + aircond from solar that would be the most cost effective as those two items takes up a bunch of power from tnb bills..
phoenix69
post Sep 26 2011, 11:29 AM

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Err ... I thought that if we install solar power panels on our roof it will generate sufficient power to supply all our household power demand day and night,
furthermore can get extra cash back when we sell extra power generated to TNB . drool.gif drool.gif drool.gif

Forever free of TNB bills and in reverse get money every month from TNB . rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif

Wishful thinking I guess tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 10:50 AM)
It was publish in the news paper, i read about it few years ago.

I don't want to calculate the ROI after hearing the numbers. I was expecting like 10k +-, but after the consultant told me is about 40k after gov subsidy I lost my interest. Hope the price have come down substantial.

Maybe we can install wind turbine instead biggrin.gif
*
RM10k solar set probally can generate 360watt.

I have read some wind turbne. Unless your area have wind above 25mph (something like that), if not don't think about it. Can't drive the fan move at all. But you can add wind turbine as supplement to your solar setup if it not that expensive. smile.gif
weikee
post Sep 26 2011, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 26 2011, 12:34 PM)
RM10k solar set probally can generate 360watt.

I have read some wind turbne. Unless your area have wind above 25mph (something like that), if not don't think about it. Can't drive the fan move at all. But you can add wind turbine as supplement to your solar setup if it not that expensive. smile.gif
*
We need average about 1Kwatt hour per day (average out), peak minimal about 6Kwatt - 8Kwatt for a terrace house. So that maybe need about RM 40k to just cover one household need. ROI will be very long...
ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 26 2011, 10:59 AM)
@osak , yeah maybe start with lights first would be better, install 120w panel with 2x 100AH batts power

maybe 2 or 3 18 watt Philips lights, cost would be around 3 to 5k i think for a simple project...

would be better is can totally power fridge + aircond from solar that would be the most cost effective as those two items takes up a bunch of power from tnb bills..
*
A 5k solar kit can get a 180watt set. That can generate 2.4kw/perday with battery. You can power up 12ps 23watt energy saving light for 8hr. Not bad to start with small first.

To power that fridge+aircon is already full whole solar system liau. sweat.gif

If you have a chance to oversea, grab some solar panel kit. Much cheaper. But prepare to pay 30% tax when go through custom. sad.gif


Added on September 26, 2011, 1:12 pm
QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 12:40 PM)
We need average about 1Kwatt hour per day (average out), peak minimal about 6Kwatt - 8Kwatt for a terrace house. So that maybe need about RM 40k to just cover one household need. ROI will be very long...
*
The last I get quote from some solar expert here is RM60k. He said that is enough for you whole housewhole. That is enough to put me off too. He....

Recently visit AUS and my friend bought me to some of his neighbour to see thier solar set on grid. Quite a lot there. Is cost $16k there.

This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 26 2011, 01:12 PM
weikee
post Sep 26 2011, 02:18 PM

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AUD 16k is about right loh RM 60k

I find now Malaysia price no longer cheap. Other than labor what else is cheap?
ozak
post Sep 26 2011, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 02:18 PM)
AUD 16k is about right loh RM 60k

I find now Malaysia price no longer cheap. Other than labor what else is cheap?
*
Maybe the gov there given good subsidy. But my friend told me, the gov start cutting back since now many go into it.

Solar not cheap here cause seller take advantage of the less ppl adventure into this field. Even some simple china solar product here cost double.
weikee
post Sep 26 2011, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 26 2011, 02:59 PM)
Maybe the gov there given good subsidy. But my friend told me, the gov start cutting back since now many go into it.

Solar not cheap here cause seller take advantage of the less ppl adventure into this field. Even some simple china solar product here cost double.
*
Do you know many things need AP to bring in? I need an AP to bring in a faulty router from my oversea office. What a joke. And all this add up the cost.

So everyone, you know why things so expensive in Malaysia?....
ozak
post Sep 27 2011, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 26 2011, 03:50 PM)
Do you know many things need AP to bring in? I need an AP to bring in a faulty router from my oversea office. What a joke. And all this add up the cost.

So everyone, you know why things so expensive in Malaysia?....
*
Are you kidding me. A faulty router need an AP? What the router categories at?

My company do a lot of buying and selling parts and machine to oversea. And never need any AP at all. Just once a while get tax for some parts.
weikee
post Sep 27 2011, 09:17 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 27 2011, 01:09 AM)
Are you kidding me. A faulty router need an AP?  What the router categories at?

My company do a lot of buying and selling parts and machine to oversea. And never need any AP at all. Just once a while get tax for some parts.
*
Because is under telecommunication.
jaycee1
post Sep 27 2011, 01:32 PM

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declare under computer components and say its for personal use. Tax free.

I used to lug all these network gear up and down (for my office in) France and Malaysia. Never once had an issue.
TSJinXXX
post Sep 27 2011, 01:44 PM

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i sense a thread derailment coming.. back to topic plz smile.gif
weikee
post Sep 27 2011, 02:11 PM

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Just get AP, maybe will be cheaper biggrin.gif


Added on September 27, 2011, 2:13 pm
QUOTE(jaycee1 @ Sep 27 2011, 01:32 PM)
declare under computer components and say its for personal use. Tax free.

I used to lug all these network gear up and down (for my office in) France and Malaysia. Never once had an issue.
*
If it look like PC no problem. If it look like network equipments is already got problem especially going via courier. Anyway is offtopic.

This post has been edited by weikee: Sep 27 2011, 02:13 PM
ozak
post Sep 28 2011, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 26 2011, 10:59 AM)
@osak , yeah maybe start with lights first would be better, install 120w panel with 2x 100AH batts power

maybe 2 or 3 18 watt Philips lights, cost would be around 3 to 5k i think for a simple project...

would be better is can totally power fridge + aircond from solar that would be the most cost effective as those two items takes up a bunch of power from tnb bills..
*
So here I start with very very small solar project first. biggrin.gif

Thinking of adding some light for my back and front house but don't want increase the electrical consumption. So my solution is this ....

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image


This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 31 2019, 09:13 AM
weikee
post Sep 28 2011, 11:28 AM

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Where the battery?
ozak
post Sep 28 2011, 11:36 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 28 2011, 11:28 AM)
Where the battery?
*
The battery is inside the housing. It use either 2 or 3pcs AA rechargerable battery. Either 800mah or 1800mah.
weikee
post Sep 28 2011, 12:06 PM

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I am thinking of solar for the motion detector LED light, because that is the area i did not put wiring. Where did you get it?

Rechargeable AA battery are not lasting under hot temperature.
ozak
post Sep 28 2011, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 28 2011, 12:06 PM)
I am thinking of solar for the motion detector LED light, because that is the area i did not put wiring. Where did you get it?

Rechargeable AA battery are not lasting under hot temperature.
*
All this are function at night only and motion detect. The light side should place at shade side or away from direct sun. Only the solar panel is place outside.

Brought from aus.
TSJinXXX
post Sep 28 2011, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 28 2011, 12:15 PM)
All this are function at night only and motion detect. The light side should place at shade side or away from direct sun. Only the solar panel is place outside.

Brought from aus.
*
there is a solar lighting supplier in malaysia

look here

http://www.solarlight-mart.com/ , not sure about the pricing but seems reasonable...
weikee
post Sep 28 2011, 01:29 PM

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Jinxxx, i feel that store is overprice. Selection are limited too.

May have to use my trusted ebay to source smile.gif
TSJinXXX
post Sep 28 2011, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 28 2011, 01:29 PM)
Jinxxx, i feel that store is overprice. Selection are limited too.

May have to use my trusted ebay to source smile.gif
*
wonder if those that is interested can all do a bulk buy from us/china/etc etc etc
weikee
post Sep 28 2011, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 28 2011, 01:30 PM)
wonder if those that is interested can all do a bulk buy from us/china/etc etc etc
*
Too big the order will trigger custom problem smile.gif

But the website do have some nice stuff if you are the DIY person.
ozak
post Sep 28 2011, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Sep 28 2011, 12:26 PM)
there is a solar lighting supplier in malaysia

look here

http://www.solarlight-mart.com/ , not sure about the pricing but seems reasonable...
*
This site is overprice for the solar light.


Added on September 28, 2011, 5:31 pm
QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 28 2011, 01:58 PM)
Too big the order will trigger custom problem smile.gif

But the website do have some nice stuff if you are the DIY person.
*
I brought back 2box (got others type solar light too), scan by the custom at the airport but no tax.

I m now checking the custom tariff for this tax. So far no tax tariff in their database. So either no tax at all or they simply tax it at others category. Can arque with them for this. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 28 2011, 05:31 PM
weikee
post Sep 28 2011, 05:33 PM

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What i understand not listed mean standard taxing apply.
ozak
post Sep 29 2011, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 28 2011, 05:33 PM)
What i understand not listed mean standard taxing apply.
*
Not really. I have experience that there is no tax with unknown item. But you still need to go there to explain and buy the custom form. If you have experience about custom tariff, you can straight tell them under which category in and how much tax. That can prevent them from anyhow tax you.

Ok, I found out that solar panel will get tax for 10% in custom tariff. It under name of photovoltaic. So any solar thing you want to get from oversea, add the 10% in.


Added on September 30, 2011, 1:27 pmHere have some good explanation about solar on grid. And why encourage you to put up a solar panel from power station.

Why tnb no encourage huh. hmm.gif
QUOTE
BIPV, Grid Connected, Photovoltaic, Solar Power Systems - Do You Need It ??? Or...  

  Electricity from BIPV, Grid Connected, systems, does NOT cover the cost of electricity that you use and you still have a monthly bill to pay, to the power company. You would need at least 15 Kilowatt peak, of Crystalline Solar panels, to fully power a small house, or 10Kwp of Modern, Thin film, Solar panels. Maximum allowed for BIPV Grid connected, in Malaysia, is 5Kwp. This seems to be omitted from all of the advertising. Only DC (Direct Current), Stand-Alone, systems, cover the whole cost of Electricity used.  
  Solar panels do NOT save energy. They are only an alternative supply of electricity. BIPV is a very expensive alternative, when compared to the price of Mains AC (Alternating Current) electricity, from the power company. Different types of PV panels work better in different climates but a lot of Myths often make consumers choose the 'WRONG' type of panel.  
  Solar panels make DC electricity (like a battery), directly from the Sun. This is a very simple conversion which is known as the �Photovoltaic effect�. DC power can be used directly, with most of your household appliances. The problem is that often the DC electricity is converted to AC, by an INVERTER , for Grid Connected systems, so that it can be put back into the AC mains Grid. This Inverter is an expensive piece of equipment, that has a Power LOSS, when converting the battery type electricity (DC) into Mains type electricity (AC).  
  For over 50 years, Solar power has been used in Stand-Alone, DC systems, in places where there was no Mains Electricity supply. Over 90% of all Solar power systems are still Stand-Alone systems but we never hear about these! No hype here, because there is no benefit for the big power companies if customers start using their own electricity and stop buying from them!  

 So why all the hype about BIPV?  

  The peak demand of the power company occurs at mid day and this demand can NOT be met in many areas. Coincidentally, the peak output of Solar panels happens at Mid day, when the Sun is at its Hottest. So an Ideal solution is to put Solar panels on local houses and feed this, much needed power, back to the power company, to help them meet the peak load. BIPV is intended to help the power company more than the consumer. The MPIA (Malaysian Photovoltaic Industry Association) protects consumers and explains all the pitfalls of using BIPV systems, before installing them.  
  Now you all know, that the power coming from the wall socket, in your house, is the AC type power. What some of you may not know, is that all your modern appliances are DC powered. To get round this problem, all your appliances are fitted with AC to DC converters, to turn the 240V AC power into 12V DC, in most cases. An example is your mobile phone, it comes with a wall mounted converter, to change the 240V AC to 4V DC to charge the battery. Also your lap top computer has a small black box on the mains lead, which also converts the 240V AC power back to 12V DC to charge the battery in your lap top. LCD TV is DC powered, Printer, PC, Satellite dish, and anything which has microchips inside are ALL DC powered. You are using DC powered appliances already, all with the AC to DC converters supplied by the manufacturers.
 
 
So why do we have AC 240V if everything is DC?  

This is because low voltage DC, can not be carried very far, over an electric cable. But AC high voltage can travel hundreds of miles and can be converted by transformers to higher voltages, which are needed to make the electricity travel these long distances, from the Power Station to your house. These transformers and voltage changes, cause a massive loss of power. 300% more power has to be produced at the power station, to make up for these losses in your AC mains system. That means that a 100 watt light bulb needs the power station to generate 300 watts of power, to light it. So if you put Solar Panels on your house and produce Mains electricity directly into the local power grid, for every 100 watts you put in, the power company saves 300 watts of power.

  Now in most countries, this is reflected in the price that the power company pays for the electricity you give to them. Thailand for example will give 3 times the rated tariff, for electricity they get from Solar panels.
 
  However, if you have a stand alone PV power system and you WISH to be BIPV, Grid connected, you can Pay the additional cost, of an expensive grid connection inverter and put the energy you Produce, back into the Grid. Unfortunately, you do not get paid for putting the energy into the Grid, you only get back AC power that you put in. So, you don't use or need the Grid Energy and get nothing in return, for connecting into the Grid System.
This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 30 2011, 01:29 PM
ozak
post Oct 1 2011, 07:12 AM

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I wonder is this true. Maybe will announce this coming budget? smile.gif

QUOTE
The Malaysian cabinet had approved the Renewable Energy Act and Act for a Feed-in-Tariff Implementing Agency in April 2010. These acts were then formalized under the 10th Malaysia Plan, with which the National Renewable Energy Policy & Action Plan was announced to the public. It aims to increase the generation of electricity from renewable sources of energy from less than 1% of total output in 2009 to 5.5% in 2015.

Renewable sources of energy eligible for the tariff system are solar photovoltaic, biogas, biomass, mini hydro, and solid waste. Basically the system will allow producers and users alike to sell excess power to the national power grid. In other words it is a mechanism which will allow electricity produced from local renewable energy resources to be sold to power utilities at a fixed premium price for a specific duration. The organization which was established to manage the feed-in tariff programme is the Sustainable Energy Development Authority (SEDA).

Ministry of Energy, Green Technology and Water has also initiated the Green Technology Financing Scheme amounting to RM1.5 billion to attract the private sector to participate in green technology entrepreneurship. This step should be applauded as financing has always been the stumbling block. In Germany, juwi has been a successful example of private participation in the green energy sector.

From an investment point of view, this is also a good opportunity for ordinary citizens to achieve a relatively satisfactory ROI. A typical home which can install up to a 4kW solar panel system may require a capital of approximately RM60,000 to install the 4kW system. People however will only need to provide 10% of the sum. Due to good ROI (could be as high as 14% p.a), the rest can be loaned from a bank. 14% is certainly not bad, huh.

The Malaysian Feed-in-Tariff is expected to come into force in the third quarter of 2011, meaning - soon enough.
Kethcup SOS

weikee
post Oct 1 2011, 08:49 AM

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6K initial pay up is good. But 4KW generate and sell back say 3KW after minus household usage. Base on my calculation it take long ROI.

Say:
- sell back 0.60 cents per hours for 3KWh (assume sell back is 0.20 / KWh)
- one day say peak power generate is only 5 hours (10am - 3pm)
- One month 30 days
- 0.6 * 5 * 30 = RM 90.00

RM 54,000 / 90 = 600 Months (50 years). That provide the photovoltaic running for 50 years without maintenance.


ozak
post Oct 1 2011, 11:01 AM

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Here probally the rate. I don't think the ROI that long. The gov must come out some attractive rate or incentive to encourage. Otherwise what for they implement it.
Beside the tariff rate, the gov also need to come out some subsidy, discount or lease for the start up cost.

QUOTE
Malaysian authorities release details of proposed feed-in tariff system

Following on the progress of proposed renewable energy development policies for Malaysia Chief Technical Advisor to Malaysia's Ministry of Energy Ahmad Hadri Haris provided details of a proposed feed-in tariff system for the Asian nation, which include solar photovoltaics (PV). The policy would be created through the Act for a Feed-in Tariff Implementing Agency, which Malaysia's cabinet passed in April 2010. In October 2010 the Malaysian parliament will begin debating the act, and if successful a program could be launched as early as the second quarter of 2011. "Haris' Industry Briefing on Feed-in Tariff Procedures revealed as sophisticated a program as found anywhere in the world", states Renewable Energy Policy expert Paul Gipe of Wind Works. "Malaysia's proposal also seems designed to avoid several of the problems encountered with solar PV in Spain, including annual technology caps, and project registration."
 
Feed-in tariff rates to start at USD$0.302
The proposed PV feed-in tariff rates presented by the Ministry of Energy on a 21-year schedule start at USD$0.302 for systems smaller than 4KW, decreasing to USD$0.209 for systems between 10 and 30MW, with a 8% degression. Significant additional incentives would be offered for rooftop USD$.064 and building-integrated photovoltaic systems USD$.061, with small (less than USD$0.01) incentives for locally produced modules and inverters.
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post Oct 1 2011, 11:04 AM

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FiT works different weikee what you describe is net-metering. You sell ALL your power to TNB for a given price (around 1,50 under proposal i think) and you buy ALL your power from TNB at the REGULAR rate. This makes it pretty efficient if you have a large perfectly situated roof to work with. In fact your ROI can be around 8% ++ p.a.

sadly my roof is endangered by upcoming house-renovations. Any shading can totally f*** up your calculation so you need to be totally sure no neighbour can ever or will ever cause any shade to your roof. If got shade on the roof then the whole thing not worth it financially already.
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post Oct 1 2011, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Oct 1 2011, 11:04 AM)
sadly my roof is endangered by upcoming house-renovations. Any shading can totally f*** up your calculation so you need to be totally sure no neighbour can ever or will ever cause any shade to your roof. If got shade on the roof then the whole thing not worth it financially already.
*
if your staying in a large single/double story housing area with no high raise anywhere other than trees..

it could be very worth while.... to look into long term..

as the electricity tariff will sure to go up as time passes by... maybe first 5 years its about 4% when the tariff is revised might jump to 8 or so
ozak
post Oct 1 2011, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Oct 1 2011, 11:04 AM)
FiT works different weikee what you describe is net-metering. You sell ALL your power to TNB for a given price (around 1,50 under proposal i think) and you buy ALL your power from TNB at the REGULAR rate. This makes it pretty efficient if you have a large perfectly situated roof to work with. In fact your ROI can be around 8% ++ p.a.

sadly my roof is endangered by upcoming house-renovations. Any shading can totally f*** up your calculation so you need to be totally sure no neighbour can ever or will ever cause any shade to your roof. If got shade on the roof then the whole thing not worth it financially already.
*
There is a new type of panel which more suitable for climate here. It call thin film or a-si or Amorphous panel. It tolerate shading and hot temperature. But you need bigger roof. It less efficiency compare same size as monocrystalline. Check it out.
weikee
post Oct 1 2011, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Oct 1 2011, 11:04 AM)
FiT works different weikee what you describe is net-metering. You sell ALL your power to TNB for a given price (around 1,50 under proposal i think) and you buy ALL your power from TNB at the REGULAR rate. This makes it pretty efficient if you have a large perfectly situated roof to work with. In fact your ROI can be around 8% ++ p.a.

sadly my roof is endangered by upcoming house-renovations. Any shading can totally f*** up your calculation so you need to be totally sure no neighbour can ever or will ever cause any shade to your roof. If got shade on the roof then the whole thing not worth it financially already.
*
Wait till we get official charge back rate than we will know actual ROI. They always paint the picture so nice.
ozak
post Oct 12 2011, 01:32 PM

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Wonder how true is this. The BIPV tariff already passed and will start in december?

QUOTE
Malaysia: PV Interest at an "All Time High"  

KUALA LUMPUR, SEPT 29 (www.pv-magazine.com) -- As the Renewable Energy World conference and trade show winds up in the Malaysian Capital, Kuala Lumpur today, photovoltaic industry participants have reported never-before-seen interest in solar. At conference presentations on the third-and-final day, one conference stream was entirely devoted to solar technology, markets and innovations. The sessions were declared a "full house" by organizers and demonstrated the growing awareness of, and interest in, solar.

The organizers claim 7,000 delegates and 6,500 visitors attended the show. Image: Solarpraxis/Jonathan Gifford.

Shamsudin Khalid, the president of the Malaysian Photovoltaic Industry Association told pv magazine that interest in photovoltaics is at an "all time high of in Malaysia right now."

The organizers claim that 7,000 delegates and 6,500 visitors attended the show, which was held simultaneously with the Power Gen Asia conference and convention. As such, photovoltaic manufacturers like Trina Solar, LDK Solar and Sharp found themselves displaying their panels amongst fossil fuel and nuclear power generators.

FITs on their way

Amongst this diverse group, photovoltaic stalls attracted considerable attention. Part of this interest stems from the fact that renewable energy legislation has been passed by Malaysia’s parliament, which should see feed-in tariffs (FITs) introduced in December.

There is some uncertainty as to whether the FIT will be introduced on schedule, as it has already been delayed once. "We certainly hope it will meet this timeframe, of December. The industry is certainly waiting for it," said Khalid.

He does remain hopeful that even if there are delays, photovoltaics is on track to play a prominent role in the country’s renewable energy future. "Even if it spills over to the first quarter of next year, we are ok. Beyond six of 12 months it will be difficult for the industry to manage."

Grid parity approaching

During one of the conference presentations, a slightly different picture was painted. Roger Goh, an executive director at wafer manufacturer GCL, said that due to rapidly falling module prices, grid parity in places with good irradiation such as Malaysia, is imminent.

While describing the module and silicon wafer oversupply as being, "very, very bad" for manufacturers, he showed figures indicating that retail grid parity in many places in Asia would occur within three to five years. "Even in the east PV will be economically viable," he declared.
Here is the official tariff rate for BIPV. Does this rate good enough?

QUOTE
FiT Rates for Solar PV (21 years from FiT Commencement Date)
Description of Qualifying Renewable Energy Installation FiT Rates (RM per kWh)
(a) Basic FiT rates having installed capacity of :      2011      2012    2013
(i) up to and including 4kW                                  1.2300  1.2300  1.1316
(ii) above 4kW and up to and including 24kW        1.2000    1.2000  1.1040
(iii) above 24kW and up to and including 72kW      1.1800  1.1800  1.0856
(iv) above 72kW and up to and including 1MW      1.1400  1.1400  1.0488
(v) above 1MW and up to and including 10MW      0.9500  0.9500    0.8740
(vi) above 10MW and up to and including 30MW    0.8500  0.8500  0.7820

(b) Bonus FiT rates having the following criteria (one or more) :          2011        2012      2013
(i) use as installation in buildings or building structures                    + 0.2600  + 0.2600  + 0.2392
(ii) use as building materials                                                          + 0.2500  + 0.2500  + 0.2300
(iii) use of locally manufactured or assembled solar PV modules      + 0.0300  + 0.0300  + 0.0276
(iv) use of locally manufactured or assembled solar inverters          + 0.0100  + 0.0100  + 0.0092


Here the source for more detail -> http://seda.gov.my/

Some calculation which for you guy to analysis.

QUOTE
Easy calculations for system size and cost:
If you know your average kwh/day or know how many kwh/day you would like to produce, a simple calculation will determine system size and cost.

System size in kilowatts (kw) = (kwh/day) / 4 hours (peak sun) x 1.43 (system losses)
Step 1: Divide average kwh/day by number of hours of peak sun, or (kwh/ay) / 4
Step 2: Multiply by 1.43 to account for system losses due to friction, heat, and other inefficiencies.

Example: What size system is needed to produce 20kwh/day?

20kwh/4h = 5kw
5kw x 1.43= 7.15kw
7.15kw = system size to produce 20kwh/day assuming 4 peak sun hours (11am to 3pm).

System cost = system size x RM13,000 to RM15,000
Step 1: multiply system size by RM13,000 for competitive system cost installed
Step 2: multiply system size by RM15,000 for conservative system cost installed

Example: How much would a 7.15kw system cost?
7.15kw x RM13,000 = RM92,950 = competitive system cost
7.15kw x RM15,000 = RM107,250 = conservative system cost

We used to see an average cost of a grid-tied system to be about RM15,000 per kilowatt (array size) installed, but with a growing market, systems are being installed for as low as RM12,000 per kilowatt in competitive areas.  Keep in mind that these costs are before any incentives or rebates are taken into account.  When the FIT kick in, the return of investment (ROI) will be around 9 to 14 years depend on locations, solar systems, technologies and so forth.

Hopefully this helped introduce you to some of the basic considerations needed before purchasing a solar electric system.  There is far too much information to cover in a short guide and anyone serious about greener living should contact us at contact@solarpower-mart.com or SEDA for more detail.

Please take notes:
1) Malaysia only has 4 hours solar insolation (some areas may be less due to pollution).
2) Malaysia has average of 2 months cloudy/raining day per year, which solar power is not favourable.
3) When solar cell (module/panel) heat up (after noon time), the solar cell's efficiency (power output) will start to drop.  Which mean during a hot day, solar panel (PV) actually produce less.  This is a major challenge for solar power in Malaysia.
4) Every few months, installed solar panels (array) need to be clean (due to dusk accumulation on the panel) for maximum efficiency.  This is an extra cost for the owner and may increased longer payback period. Please also find out other maintenance costs.
TSJinXXX
post Oct 12 2011, 03:08 PM

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thanks for the info, im too blur at the moment to understand any jack shit they are saying
phoenix69
post Nov 13 2011, 05:03 PM

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I saw someone selling Solar PV Solution for Residental
From my breif discussion this is the summary for this system
Basic Package
Cost RM36 - 40K
Generate approx 300kwh / month - Sell to TNB @ RM1.49/kwh - TNB pay us RM447.00/month
We use 1000kwh / month - cost average @ RM0.30/kwh - We pay TNB RM300.00/month
Therefore per month we untung 147.00

weikee
post Nov 13 2011, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(phoenix69 @ Nov 13 2011, 05:03 PM)
I saw someone selling Solar PV Solution for Residental
From my breif discussion this is the summary for this system
Basic Package
Cost RM36 - 40K
Generate approx 300kwh / month - Sell to TNB @ RM1.49/kwh - TNB pay us RM447.00/month
We use 1000kwh / month - cost average @ RM0.30/kwh - We pay TNB RM300.00/month
Therefore per month we untung 147.00
*
Please ask for guarantee from them smile.gif I bet they don't dare.

Jo_da48
post Nov 13 2011, 05:18 PM

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TNB sale you at RM0.30/kwh, and you sold back to TNB at 1.49/kwh? Cant be lol
* SOrry typo error

This post has been edited by Jo_da48: Nov 13 2011, 11:48 PM
ozak
post Nov 13 2011, 07:52 PM

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For this FiT tariff, better adopt wait and see. Don't rush for it.

Cause the investment cost is high. And gov like to flip flop policy. They can change anytime when favoure too much to you.

Or give you some sweet first. Later Tarik balik many thing. You can't do anything as you already invest on it.
weikee
post Nov 13 2011, 09:57 PM

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QUOTE(Jo_da48 @ Nov 13 2011, 05:18 PM)
TNB sale you at RM30/kwh, and you sold back to TNB at 1.49/kwh? Cant be lol
*
Where got RM 30, is only RM 0.218 to about RM 0.4+ depend on usage.
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post Nov 14 2011, 10:33 AM

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Yesterday USJ experienced mini hailstorm, all solar panels pecah liao if install rclxub.gif
Drian
post Nov 14 2011, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(phoenix69 @ Nov 13 2011, 05:03 PM)
I saw someone selling Solar PV Solution for Residental
From my breif discussion this is the summary for this system
Basic Package
Cost RM36 - 40K
Generate approx 300kwh / month - Sell to TNB @ RM1.49/kwh - TNB pay us RM447.00/month
We use 1000kwh / month - cost average @ RM0.30/kwh - We pay TNB RM300.00/month
Therefore per month we untung 147.00
*
In that case i'll sell the electricity back to them ... RM0.30 to gain RM1.49kw/h profit..LOL

Truth is Solar power has not reach the stage where it priced competitively without any rebates by the govt.




This post has been edited by Drian: Nov 14 2011, 10:39 AM
TSJinXXX
post Nov 14 2011, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(phoenix69 @ Nov 14 2011, 10:33 AM)
Yesterday USJ experienced mini hailstorm, all solar panels pecah liao if install  rclxub.gif
*
did you check out with those that have solar heater all pecah ? *not the same but curious to know*

doubt that.. they have a very strong outer layer for protection smile.gif heheheh
weikee
post Nov 14 2011, 11:17 AM

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Tempered glass no problem. Laminated glass maybe unless is very thick.
kamion
post Nov 14 2011, 12:29 PM

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Good point. Must use tempered glass next time if I put up a timber pergola in case got hail....... which happens now and then. (Sorry, off topic).


ozak
post Nov 14 2011, 10:23 PM

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QUOTE(phoenix69 @ Nov 14 2011, 10:33 AM)
Yesterday USJ experienced mini hailstorm, all solar panels pecah liao if install  rclxub.gif
*
Those hailstorm not big enough to smach the panel glass.

All the solar panel standard come with tempered glass.
venven81
post Nov 16 2011, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(phoenix69 @ Nov 13 2011, 05:03 PM)
I saw someone selling Solar PV Solution for Residental
From my breif discussion this is the summary for this system
Basic Package
Cost RM36 - 40K
Generate approx 300kwh / month - Sell to TNB @ RM1.49/kwh - TNB pay us RM447.00/month
We use 1000kwh / month - cost average @ RM0.30/kwh - We pay TNB RM300.00/month
Therefore per month we untung 147.00
*
initially i thought there could be mistake in the statement but having checked on SEDA website (www.seda.gov.my) the FiT is somewhere about the figure given (RM 1.23 per kwh to be exact for the base calculation). if that is the case, it is encouraging people to go ahead with the BIPV implementation. having said that, there are many criteria to fulfil in order to entitle to this FiT. i will personally check with SEDA on the requirement and will definitely embark on this system if the ROI is good enough smile.gif well, save the planet!

This post has been edited by venven81: Nov 16 2011, 03:11 PM
ozak
post Nov 16 2011, 08:59 PM

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I wonder TNB can have contract with us? For maybe 10yrs to buy from us same rate.
weikee
post Nov 16 2011, 10:32 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 16 2011, 08:59 PM)
I wonder TNB can have contract with us? For maybe 10yrs to buy from us same rate.
*
Haha.. good one. We can be mini IPP biggrin.gif
@jiman
post Nov 21 2011, 07:05 AM

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I really want to get more details on solar panel supplier

the one at homedec exb was only for water heater and the http://seda.gov.my/ website is kinda pain to understand :S
ozak
post Nov 21 2011, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(@jiman @ Nov 21 2011, 07:05 AM)
I really want to get more details on solar panel supplier

the one at homedec exb was only for water heater and the http://seda.gov.my/ website is kinda pain to understand :S
*
Water heater don't use solar panel. It use solar heater.

Here the local solar panel supplier -> http://www.solarpower-mart.com/home , http://www.solarvoltaic.com/ , http://sol-malaysia.com/
@jiman
post Nov 21 2011, 08:55 AM

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Im trying to go green.. maybe my first floor use solar panel to power up the light

and I wish i can power up the swimming pool motor using solar as well sad.gif
ozak
post Nov 21 2011, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(@jiman @ Nov 21 2011, 08:55 AM)
Im trying to go green.. maybe my first floor use solar panel to power up the light

and I wish i can power up the swimming pool motor using solar as well sad.gif
*
As you know go green is not cheap. Unless you don't mind.

Consult this supplier -> http://www.solarpower-mart.com/home for more detail and see what is the cost.

The BIPV is not for your home powerup. It is like mini IPP that use your home space to generate power that sell to TNB. And your home still using TNB power like normal.
venven81
post Nov 21 2011, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 21 2011, 09:08 AM)
As you know go green is not cheap. Unless you don't mind.

Consult this supplier ->  http://www.solarpower-mart.com/home for more detail and see what is the cost.

The BIPV is not for your home powerup. It is like mini IPP that use your home space to generate power that sell to TNB. And your home still using TNB power like normal.
*
you could use PV to generate electricity for your own use. the excess power generated could be sold to tnb when you have your PV system grid-connected. not necessary for your PV to generate and sell electricity to tnb only. that's the whole point of installing solar PV system in the first place; for your own consumption rather than relying 100% on power grid.

This post has been edited by venven81: Nov 21 2011, 04:52 PM
ozak
post Nov 21 2011, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Nov 21 2011, 04:49 PM)
you could use PV to generate electricity for your own use. the excess power generated could be sold to tnb when you have your PV system grid-connected. not necessary for your PV to generate and sell electricity to tnb only. that's the whole point of installing solar PV system in the first place; for your own consumption rather than relying 100% on power grid.
*
Depend on you have enough budget to include the tnb side. If your usage per day is 5kw, would you get another 2kw or 5kw for tnb?

Note, 1kw probaly cost you rm13k - rm15k.

Bipv is about business selling power to tnb. Just like ipp. The selling price is higher than your buying price from tnb.
venven81
post Nov 21 2011, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 21 2011, 05:41 PM)
Depend on you have enough budget to include the tnb side. If your usage per day is 5kw, would you get another 2kw or 5kw for tnb?

Note, 1kw probaly cost you rm13k - rm15k.

Bipv is about business selling power to tnb. Just like ipp. The selling price is higher than your buying price from tnb.
*
if you have got a huge area that is sufficient to generate substantial electricity and sell it to tnb for profit, then yes it's all about the selling business. the cost of 1kwp system like you mentioned will set you even RM15k-RM20k depending on the quality of the total solution. all this while there's no FiT being introduced locally and most likely it will only be implemented in 2012 (earlier they mentioned in Dec 2011 but there could be delay). so generally bipv wasn't here for users to make money out of it but rather for own consumption (for those with conscious mind on the environment) at a rather high capex. having said that, commercial/industrial users could also look into how this could help them reduce their electricity bills looking at the escalating cost and it will keep on increasing by at least 3.5% per annum (shared by CIO of TNB during a private discussion). i'll be at the launching of SEDA office at putrajaya tomorrow and hopefully could get to find out more info on the national green initiative.

This post has been edited by venven81: Nov 21 2011, 06:00 PM
TSJinXXX
post Nov 21 2011, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Nov 21 2011, 05:56 PM)
i'll be at the launching of SEDA office at putrajaya tomorrow and hopefully could get to find out more info on the national green initiative.
*
please share with us ya.. with panasonic saying they will invest in solar plant here...

im hoping the price will drop another 20% and slowly after that until it become really viable.. smile.gif
KVReninem
post Nov 21 2011, 08:45 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Nov 21 2011, 08:56 PM)
if you have got a huge area that is sufficient to generate substantial electricity and sell it to tnb for profit, then yes it's all about the selling business. the cost of 1kwp system like you mentioned will set you even RM15k-RM20k depending on the quality of the total solution. all this while there's no FiT being introduced locally and most likely it will only be implemented in 2012 (earlier they mentioned in Dec 2011 but there could be delay). so generally bipv wasn't here for users to make money out of it but rather for own consumption (for those with conscious mind on the environment) at a rather high capex. having said that, commercial/industrial users could also look into how this could help them reduce their electricity bills looking at the escalating cost and it will keep on increasing by at least 3.5% per annum (shared by CIO of TNB during a private discussion).  i'll be at the launching of SEDA office at putrajaya tomorrow and hopefully could get to find out more info on the national green initiative.
*
I do agree with your POV. Yes; at the moment, high capEX & poor govt leading to change Malaysia energy sector is a problem. Malaysia do really need to be much more straight forward in term of managing it & down to the bottom line consumer.
weikee
post Nov 21 2011, 09:32 PM

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Take example of Diesel, it take them forever to implement Euro 4 diesel, E4 is much more friendly and better, this allow more diesel car come in. More economical and fuel efficient. Now delay another 2 years. Maybe 20 years until our lung get black.
ozak
post Nov 21 2011, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Nov 21 2011, 05:56 PM)
if you have got a huge area that is sufficient to generate substantial electricity and sell it to tnb for profit, then yes it's all about the selling business. the cost of 1kwp system like you mentioned will set you even RM15k-RM20k depending on the quality of the total solution. all this while there's no FiT being introduced locally and most likely it will only be implemented in 2012 (earlier they mentioned in Dec 2011 but there could be delay). so generally bipv wasn't here for users to make money out of it but rather for own consumption (for those with conscious mind on the environment) at a rather high capex. having said that, commercial/industrial users could also look into how this could help them reduce their electricity bills looking at the escalating cost and it will keep on increasing by at least 3.5% per annum (shared by CIO of TNB during a private discussion).  i'll be at the launching of SEDA office at putrajaya tomorrow and hopefully could get to find out more info on the national green initiative.
*
It is not the space but the budget. Average terrace house roof can be over 4kw. The cost pv here have been drop. In 2010, the price drop to rm19k here.

With the high cost investment, I doubt everyone will have a environment conscious. A 4kw system can cost you rm60k. I even can't effort it. Not to say go green. Unless gov come out some special loan, subsidy etc.

Can get us some answer regarding the initial cost, how we can effort, what rate and ada contract or not. smile.gif
weikee
post Nov 21 2011, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 21 2011, 11:12 PM)
It is not the space but the budget. Average terrace house roof can be over 4kw. The cost pv here have been drop. In 2010, the price drop to rm19k here.

With the high cost investment, I doubt everyone will have a environment conscious. A 4kw system can cost you rm60k. I even can't effort it. Not to say go green. Unless gov come out some special loan, subsidy etc.

Can get us some answer regarding the initial cost, how we can effort, what rate and ada contract or not. smile.gif
*
You need to consider supporting the roof, and other factor too. Additional money. Average terrace may not fit in 4KW, it need to have proper wide space. If like my house stupid sime design with odd shape roof it will have poor coverage of sun ray.
ozak
post Nov 21 2011, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Nov 21 2011, 11:27 PM)
You need to consider supporting the roof, and other factor too. Additional money. Average terrace may not fit in 4KW, it need to have proper wide space. If like my house stupid sime design with odd shape roof it will have poor coverage of sun ray.
*
I have done some calculation on my roof and yes it can fit over 4kw. The best is your roof need to face either south or north. The pv can get max sun coverage.

It is not easy to get your pv fix on top of your roof. Most probaly will only allow you to choose a few authorize contractor to do and get the package.
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post Nov 22 2011, 12:07 AM

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My roof got like 3 "A" shape, that make it only usable either in morning or afternoon. for roof support, it need some specialist to do it. When I ask my contractor to redesign my house roof, he don't want to redesign my roof, cause he say my roof too many "A", he advice me to get a proper roof specialist for design. And that cost me another sum yawn.gif

Wonder if the installation cost including the authorized roof contractor?
ozak
post Nov 22 2011, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Nov 22 2011, 12:07 AM)
My roof got like 3 "A" shape, that make it only usable either in morning or afternoon. for roof support, it need some specialist to do it. When I ask my contractor to redesign my house roof, he don't want to redesign my roof, cause he say my roof too many "A", he advice me to get a proper roof specialist for design. And that cost me another sum yawn.gif

Wonder if the installation cost including the authorized roof contractor?
*
What I read in the bipv project here that now running, there is some tnb approval contractor or pv company to do. Not any 1 contractor. They are specialist for this bipv project.

For your difficulty roof, hope they have some solution.


This post has been edited by ozak: Nov 23 2011, 08:28 AM
ozak
post Nov 23 2011, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE
Hence, the FiT in Malaysia is not financed from tax revenue, instead, it will be financed by a Renewable Energy Fund which is contributed by the electricity consumers. The Government has decided electricity consumers will contribute 1% of the total electricity tariff bills issued by Tenaga Nasional Berhad to the RE Fund. Nonetheless, 75 % of the TNB’s customers who consume less than 300 kWh per month will be exempted from contributing to this Fund and the collection of 1% will be effective from 1st December 2011 onwards. I am in full support of this strategy because apart from getting the public/industries to participate and contribute to green energy development, it also promotes all parties to use energy efficiently to reduce their electricity consumption because heavy consumers of electricity would contribute more to the RE Fund.
This is the speech from Y. B. DATO SRI PETER CHIN FAHKUI MINISTER OF ENERGY, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND WATER AT
THE OFFICIAL LAUNCHING OF SEDA MALAYSIA’S OFFICE

So are we going to pay more if using more than 300kwh? Or 1% taken from the 300kwh bill which TNB is contribute not us? hmm.gif

At the moment we are paying if using 300kwh is 200kwh = 43.6
100kwh = 33.4
Total = RM77
weikee
post Nov 23 2011, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 22 2011, 12:30 AM)
What I read in the bipv project here that now running, there is some tnb approval contractor or pv company to do. Not any 1 contractor. They are specialist for this bipv project.

For your difficulty roof, hope they have some solution.
*
I don't have 50k to spare now. I can wait longer.


Added on November 23, 2011, 10:43 am
QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 23 2011, 08:30 AM)
This is the speech from Y. B. DATO SRI PETER CHIN FAHKUI MINISTER OF ENERGY, GREEN TECHNOLOGY AND WATER AT
THE OFFICIAL LAUNCHING OF SEDA MALAYSIA’S OFFICE

So are we going to pay more if using more than 300kwh? Or 1% taken from the 300kwh bill which TNB is contribute not us? hmm.gif 

At the moment we are paying if using 300kwh is 200kwh = 43.6
                                                                        100kwh = 33.4
                                                                            Total  = RM77
*
300Kwh only? that is pretty low right? How many A/C hours you run per day? and Water heater?

Still waiting for my running bill when i move in next month.

This post has been edited by weikee: Nov 23 2011, 10:43 AM
ozak
post Nov 23 2011, 10:52 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Nov 23 2011, 10:42 AM)
300Kwh only? that is pretty low right? How many A/C hours you run per day? and Water heater?

Still waiting for my running bill when i move in next month.
*
I m around this 300kw range or lower. Each day about 9kw. With water heater almost everyday.

The over 300KWh charge addtional 1% will be effective on 1st coming dec. Already in news. So better save.


weikee
post Nov 23 2011, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 23 2011, 10:52 AM)
I m around this 300kw range or lower. Each day about 9kw. With water heater almost everyday.

The over 300KWh charge addtional 1% will be effective on 1st coming dec. Already in news. So better save.
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Change the core lah.. Vote smile.gif
ozak
post Nov 23 2011, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Nov 23 2011, 11:03 AM)
Change the core lah.. Vote smile.gif
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Already done so last election. Because of this, I get free water from 2008 till now. smile.gif
weikee
post Nov 23 2011, 11:12 AM

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Me too biggrin.gif
venven81
post Nov 23 2011, 11:21 AM

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with this implementation, i would say a lot of us will be paying the 1% levy (so-called FiT contribution fund) so that those who invested in RE system will be able to get rebate from FiT (whether it's biomass, biogas, solar). below is part of the extract from national renewable energy policy and action plan that i gathered from the launch yesterday:

"the regulatory framework would be the primary vehicle for the introduction of the feed-in-tariff (FiT) mechanism which will act as a catalyst for the progressive entry of RE power generation businesses and other related aspects of RE development.

it is envisaged that with the reduced environmental pollution coming from increased RE usage, the society at large benefits. this would mean that society must play its part by contributing towards RE development through a fund to be used to pay for the RE power. payment of this contribution, which can be embedded into the electricity tariff structure, must be made to a specific RE Fund and not become part of the receipts by government (as such receipts must be paid into the Consolidated Fund)."

This post has been edited by venven81: Nov 23 2011, 11:22 AM
weikee
post Nov 23 2011, 11:38 AM

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Benefit my foot. Only selected one will have pocket in.
KVReninem
post Nov 23 2011, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Nov 23 2011, 02:21 PM)
with this implementation, i would say a lot of us will be paying the 1% levy (so-called FiT contribution fund) so that those who invested in RE system will be able to get rebate from FiT (whether it's biomass, biogas, solar). below is part of the extract from national renewable energy policy and action plan that i gathered from the launch yesterday:

"the regulatory framework would be the primary vehicle for the introduction of the feed-in-tariff (FiT) mechanism which will act as a catalyst for the progressive entry of RE power generation businesses and other related aspects of RE development.

it is envisaged that with the reduced environmental pollution coming from increased RE usage, the society at large benefits. this would mean that society must play its part by contributing towards RE development through a fund to be used to pay for the RE power. payment of this contribution, which can be embedded into the electricity tariff structure, must be made to a specific RE Fund and not become part of the receipts by government (as such receipts must be paid into the Consolidated Fund)."
*
if they serious about benefits; govt should published out all the consolidation fund channeld to RE & what & where the money gone to. Rather saying consolidate without real proven accountability.

The policy is right; but the implementation; like any Malaysian will know, full of hanky panky shit.

Back to topic; atm; capEX for BIPV is still high & govt same as architecture industry isnt emphasized hard enough to promote sustainable/off grid living. We know its a big hoo har but when you asked them the details; very few are good in the details. whistling.gif
ozak
post Nov 23 2011, 07:18 PM

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But how you guys complain or don't like also no choice. Once your bill exceed 300kwh, they take 1% from your wallet.

Easy money and songlap.

I better control my usage.
weikee
post Nov 23 2011, 08:45 PM

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Make your vote count.
KVReninem
post Nov 24 2011, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 23 2011, 10:18 PM)
But how you guys complain or don't like also no choice. Once your bill exceed 300kwh, they take 1% from your wallet.

Easy money and songlap.

I better control my usage.
*
the most effi is change to LED lighting. that`s the new trend & seriously fast going. Forget about those compact fluorescent light, giant like china are changing phase.

For other cases; saving energy appliances are the key to more lower energy consumption. Other than that; good architecture design play a role too. icon_rolleyes.gif

For R.Energy Policy- Malaysia have alot room to clean n clear & make it more sustainable
ozak
post Nov 24 2011, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Nov 24 2011, 08:08 PM)
the most effi is change to LED lighting. that`s the new trend & seriously fast going. Forget about those compact fluorescent light, giant like china are changing phase.

For other cases; saving energy appliances are the key to more lower energy consumption. Other than that; good architecture design play a role too. icon_rolleyes.gif

For R.Energy Policy- Malaysia have alot room to clean n clear & make it more sustainable
*
Led light not effective that much. And it is bottom at the power hunger list.

The most effective power saving is aircon, fridge, heater, cooker (electric) and any heating element. Try to find a way to save on this few item and you will be able to see your bill reduce a lot.

I once change a normal 1hp aircon to 1.5hp inveter aircon and able to save average 40% of my bill. Even the aircon hp is higher but still save better than 1hp.

I use a server to run 24hr rather pc. The server using 56w while pc anytime can up till 200w.
weikee
post Nov 25 2011, 09:54 AM

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Sometime high HP cool room faster and work less. But not too big is not good.

Just like driving big CC car, going outstation fuel consumption is good. Town ride is bad because stop and go. Too big the cc, economical of scale will not reach.
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post Nov 25 2011, 12:41 PM

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im currently working on bringing in energy saving devices for air-cond, refrigerator, lighting and motors. claimed to have saving up to 40%. will test the market and get actual feedback before i could comment further.
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post Dec 1 2011, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Nov 25 2011, 01:57 AM)
Led light not effective that much. And it is bottom at the power hunger list.

The most effective power saving is aircon, fridge, heater, cooker (electric) and any heating element. Try to find a way to save on this few item and you will be able to see your bill reduce a lot.

I once change a normal 1hp aircon to 1.5hp inveter aircon and able to save average 40% of my bill. Even the aircon hp is higher but still save better than 1hp.

I use a server to run 24hr rather pc. The server using 56w while pc anytime can up till 200w.
*
My case im arguing about is the general unnecessary heat generation especially in during nights & indoor lighting.
TSJinXXX
post Dec 1 2011, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Dec 1 2011, 07:58 PM)
My case im arguing about is the general unnecessary heat generation especially in during nights & indoor lighting.
*
yeah like some aquarium lighting system move to LED.. power cut by 2/3 and heat cut down "alot" smile.gif

ozak
post Dec 1 2011, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Dec 1 2011, 07:58 PM)
My case im arguing about is the general unnecessary heat generation especially in during nights & indoor lighting.
*
Just switch OFF it loh if not in use. smile.gif

I still using CFL for all my home lighting. Simply because lux/watt and $$/watt is still better than LED. Unless LED price further down and longlife proven.

To save more, those area (backyard) which seldom use, I change to solar panel motion activate LED light. While car porch, only ON the light when I want to go to sleep. Just using solar LED light for the rest of the time. That won't increase the bill.
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post Dec 1 2011, 09:15 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 1 2011, 09:14 PM)
To save more, those area (backyard) which seldom use, I change to solar panel motion activate LED light. While car porch, only ON the light when I want to go to sleep. Just using solar LED light for the rest of the time. That won't increase the bill.
*
just curious those solar panel motion activated led lights, the batt can manually change one ??

how the performance so far ?
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post Dec 1 2011, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Dec 1 2011, 09:15 PM)
just curious those solar panel motion activated led lights, the batt can manually change one ??

how the performance so far ?
*
It using 3pcs AA rechargeable battery. Easy change. smile.gif

So far so good. Those stupid cat keep ON/OFF the light at night. mad.gif
wongmunkeong
post Dec 1 2011, 09:30 PM

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Fellow forumers, heard anything about personal income tax on the FiT income?
Pretty big hit if an individual is taxed AND the donkey CAPEX cannot be depreciated.

Copied and pasted from SEDA's website (http://seda.gov.my)
27. Is income from feed-in tariffs considered taxable income?
Yes, it is taxable income and any exemptions would require a policy decision from the Government. KeTTHA will monitor the progress of renewable energy growth in the country and conduct necessary analyses before putting forth any policy recommendations on this matter.
ozak
post Dec 1 2011, 09:36 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Dec 1 2011, 09:30 PM)
Fellow forumers, heard anything about personal income tax on the FiT income?
Pretty big hit if an individual is taxed AND the donkey CAPEX cannot be depreciated.

Copied and pasted from SEDA's website (http://seda.gov.my)
27. Is income from feed-in tariffs considered taxable income?
Yes, it is taxable income and any exemptions would require a policy decision from the Government. KeTTHA will monitor the progress of renewable energy growth in the country and conduct necessary analyses before putting forth any policy recommendations on this matter.
*
Yes, already read. So just wait and see how the FIT going. No rush.

If the calculation not profitable or long ROI, forget it. Or just go for OFF grid.
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post Dec 7 2011, 03:31 PM

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for those who are into Green Technology and Renewable Energy per se, kindly visit and join the group in facebook for more discussions on RE.

Malaysia Renewable Energy
wongmunkeong
post Dec 7 2011, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 1 2011, 09:36 PM)
Yes, already read. So just wait and see how the FIT going. No rush.

If the calculation not profitable or long ROI, forget it. Or just go for OFF grid.
*
CAGR for the locked-in 21 years contract was looking real good (above 8%pa with cleaning cost and inverter replacement every 10 years) UNTIL i factored in the personal income tax. After factoring in the income tax of 26% yearly, the CAGR falls to between 4%+ to 6%+ depending on which vendors' system implemented.

Funny lor - individuals going solar cant write-off their Capital Exp / depreciate AND has to pay income tax on FiT income, double whammy.
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post Dec 7 2011, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Dec 7 2011, 03:55 PM)
CAGR for the locked-in 21 years contract was looking real good (above 8%pa with cleaning cost and inverter replacement every 10 years) UNTIL i factored in the personal income tax. After factoring in the income tax of 26% yearly, the CAGR falls to between 4%+ to 6%+ depending on which vendors' system implemented.

Funny lor - individuals going solar cant write-off their Capital Exp / depreciate AND has to pay income tax on FiT income, double whammy.
*
You think you can so easy earn gov money huh. tongue.gif

In others country, they have tax rebate, credit rebate etc. We here got to tax you somemore.
wongmunkeong
post Dec 7 2011, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 7 2011, 05:05 PM)
You think you can so easy earn gov money huh.  tongue.gif

In others country, they have tax rebate, credit rebate etc. We here got to tax you somemore.
*
This kinda attitude & mentality shows whether the Gov really wants to promote renewable energy OR nuclear... simple dewan also can collapse, imagine a nuclear power plant... i worry for our future generations (and i'm not talking about financials of the country only shocking.gif ).
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post Dec 7 2011, 11:35 PM

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the tax is a real downer. i had my plans all ready to replace the entire roof, secured the loan and then only noticed that i'll have to pay tax on the income.
that slashed my revenue by 23%. now ideal ROI is only around 6% at best, most likely less due to possible shading and other issues. and i still have to minus insurance on the panels, maintenance and stash away for possible replacement needs. so even before (internal) write off of the panel investment ROI goes way down and can barely reach 5% - 4% looks more like a real life figure. loan is more expensive than that so I guess I'll cancel my plans.

looks like if you want to benefit financially in any way from FiT you will need to have a company run the solar power generation. very sad - was hoping that doing something green is finally financially benefitial too but noooo sad.gif
weikee
post Dec 7 2011, 11:47 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Dec 7 2011, 11:35 PM)
the tax is a real downer. i had my plans all ready to replace the entire roof, secured the loan and then only noticed that i'll have to pay tax on the income.
that slashed my revenue by 23%. now ideal ROI is only around 6% at best, most likely less due to possible shading and other issues. and i still have to minus insurance on the panels, maintenance and stash away for possible replacement needs. so even before (internal) write off of the panel investment ROI goes way down and can barely reach 5% - 4% looks more like a real life figure. loan is more expensive than that so I guess I'll cancel my plans.

looks like if you want to benefit financially in any way from FiT you will need to have a company run the solar power generation. very sad - was hoping that doing something green is finally financially benefitial too but noooo sad.gif
*
Register as MSC, make your house a MSC location biggrin.gif

All I can say paper look good. Practical this country is still long way to go.
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post Dec 8 2011, 12:52 AM

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You got to shift your house to technology park or cyberjaya. Or stay at klcc.

Again you only have 5 yrs free tax.
weikee
post Dec 8 2011, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 8 2011, 12:52 AM)
You got to shift your house to technology park or cyberjaya. Or stay at klcc.

Again you only have 5 yrs free tax.
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Mid Valley also can biggrin.gif

Or like I suggest, make your current house MSC Status smile.gif
wongmunkeong
post Dec 8 2011, 07:00 AM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Dec 7 2011, 11:35 PM)
the tax is a real downer. i had my plans all ready to replace the entire roof, secured the loan and then only noticed that i'll have to pay tax on the income.
that slashed my revenue by 23%. now ideal ROI is only around 6% at best, most likely less due to possible shading and other issues. and i still have to minus insurance on the panels, maintenance and stash away for possible replacement needs. so even before (internal) write off of the panel investment ROI goes way down and can barely reach 5% - 4% looks more like a real life figure. loan is more expensive than that so I guess I'll cancel my plans.

looks like if you want to benefit financially in any way from FiT you will need to have a company run the solar power generation. very sad - was hoping that doing something green is finally financially benefitial too but noooo sad.gif
*
Same here bro. I was tracking M'sia's solar initiative since Project Suria days... saved up cash to do it too.. sigh..
"Spend less, waste less, generate more & move into RE" - how lar when Gov whacks ppl like us.
My apologies for b****ing.
PJusa
post Dec 8 2011, 11:09 AM

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it's really sad because they *pretend* to be after the small solar producers and there is so much talk. and yet in the end it all falls to pieces. i have been saving and preparing just like you wongmunkeong - now i will spend some of the money to reduce my consumption only. they really dont want us to produce greener power but instead keep subsidising the old ways so we are all financially trapped. it's very sad - i even scouted for a cheaper panel provider and got prices bartered down and still it's not profitable.

in case anyone is interested this is the rough costing:

Total Array Rated Power (kWp) 23 kWp
Total Installation Cost RM 350,000.00
Estimated Yield (kWh/yr) 25,250.0
Feed‐in Tariff Rate (RM/kWh)* 1.71
Total Income Generated from FiT RM 43,177.50 /year

./. tax (marginal rate 23%)

leftover: 33,246,68

./. insurance on panel, maintenance (approx. 2,000)
./. sinking fund with average lifespan of 25 yrs (approx. 14,000)

leftover: 17,250 RM roughly if no shading issues and long downtimes occur.

ROI: at best 4,9%

now the bummer: to be safe the optimistic power yield should be plugged in only with 80% i.e. you need to cut another 8,635.50

which means a good estimate on profit is just 8,614.50 on a 350,000.00 investment. that is just 2,46%. I can get more from a FD and inflation is actually higher.

and mind you this would have been a larger installation so economies of scale kick in nicely. smaller installation will barely break even unless you personall taxrate is much lower. this is the end of the solar road for me untill prices for panels sink much much more.
ozak
post Dec 8 2011, 11:26 AM

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According to seda news, many parties rush for this application. How true is it? Do they really do the calculation?


QUOTE

Applicants rush for special solar PV tariff
 
PETALING JAYA, DECEMBER 2 (The Star) -- Within the first 24 hours of opening, applications for the special tariff allocation for almost all the capacity of solar photovoltaic (PV) renewable energy projects had been applied for.

According to Sustainable Energy Development Authority Malaysia (Seda), applications for 140.6MW in cumulative installed capacity for solar energy had been received.

The quota for producing solar PV for non-individual applicants (including corporations) has been taken up for the next three years. It should be noted that these applications will be processed within 14 days by Seda and if there are unsuccessful applicants, their allocation may be up for grabs again. For individual applicants, another 11.41MW was available as of yesterday afternoon.

To recall, under the Renewable Energy Act 2011, Tenaga Nasional Bhd is obliged to buy renewable power produced by licensed players at special rates. The rates are known as the “feed-in-tariff” (FiT), and refer to the idea of producers selling their energy to the power grid.

In total, Seda received 168 applications wanting to secure the FiT through various forms of renewable technology, ranging from solar to biomass and biogas to mini-hydro. This was as at 1.45 pm yesterday.

Of the applications, 146 or 87% were from parties wanting to produce and sell solar power. There were six applications for biomass and eight each for biogas and mini-hydro.

The FiT will be awarded on a first-come, first-served basis, which explained the rush by renewable energy players in their applications.

When contacted, Energy, Green Technology and Water Minister Datuk Seri Peter Chin said as expected there was so much interest in solar PV that the quota was exhausted soon after with only a small portion left pertaining to small household connections.

“As regards to other renewable energy sources such as biomass, biogas and mini hydro, the response or demand has been rather quiet and parties who are interested should look into these areas and submit their bids online.

“Overall, the computer system seems to hold up quite well and there should not be any further problem. In any case, I visited Seda and was briefed by the chief executive officer who had been instructed to get as much feedback as possible and to fine-tune the system,” Chin said.
weikee
post Dec 8 2011, 11:47 AM

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Wayang Kulit only.
PJusa
post Dec 8 2011, 12:04 PM

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i believe the key sentence is this:

"The quota for producing solar PV for non-individual applicants (including corporations) has been taken up"

if under company you can write the investment off. individual cannot. that will increase the profit margin a bit.

other than that i have no idea. maybe if you have a much larger system to set the price will be even better? but for companies FiT is lowe than for individual. my FiT was so high because i planned to swap the roof for panels (i.e. use as building material). if not, income is only 1.5 RM/kWh so ROI is even worse.
seetoh
post Dec 13 2011, 10:40 AM

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Really good info here. Real bummer on the tax rates. Just curious, who will be the suppliers for the panels and systems? Are these companies really capable?
ozak
post Dec 13 2011, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(seetoh @ Dec 13 2011, 10:40 AM)
Really good info here. Real bummer on the tax rates. Just curious, who will be the suppliers for the panels and systems? Are these companies really capable?
*
There is already fews supplier or contractor doing this solar panel or RE (renewable energy) in here for few yrs. Should be capable.

There either register or have license in this gov or SEDA. If you get approved installation from SEDA, you will recommend or must pickup from their contractor list.
birain
post Dec 13 2011, 01:46 PM

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how about off-grid (own consumption)? anybody doing it? how much the costing for 1 double storey house? or maybe 1 medium size room (e.g powering 1 fan,1 light,1 desktop pc,etc)
weikee
post Dec 13 2011, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(birain @ Dec 13 2011, 01:46 PM)
how about off-grid (own consumption)? anybody doing it? how much the costing for 1 double storey house? or maybe 1 medium size room (e.g powering 1 fan,1 light,1 desktop pc,etc)
*
The money you put in will not have any return with only off-grid. And maintenance is high too because you need battery. Unless you using it only in sunny day.
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post Dec 13 2011, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(birain @ Dec 13 2011, 01:46 PM)
how about off-grid (own consumption)? anybody doing it? how much the costing for 1 double storey house? or maybe 1 medium size room (e.g powering 1 fan,1 light,1 desktop pc,etc)
*
Forget it to power for the whole house. That can cost you a bomb. Check your montly usage Kwh at your bill. But if you have $$ to spend, why not. Just don't hope for a return.

I m planning some small solar project for my home at the moment. Off-grid. It is my interest and not hope for a return. Still checking the panel cost and see how cheap can bring in.
KVReninem
post Dec 16 2011, 04:25 PM

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ozak, try look into australia; currently they selling off their stock pile cos of solar rebate freeze & cancellation due to flip flop govt policy.


ozak
post Dec 16 2011, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Dec 16 2011, 04:25 PM)
ozak, try look into australia; currently they selling off their stock pile cos of solar rebate freeze & cancellation due to flip flop govt policy.
*
Thanks. My friend did told me about Aus solar FIT tariff policy now when I visit there last few months. But if include shipping cost , will it cheaper than here?
KVReninem
post Dec 16 2011, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Dec 16 2011, 08:08 PM)
Thanks. My friend did told me about Aus solar FIT tariff policy now when I visit there last few months. But if include shipping cost , will it cheaper than here?
*
im nt sure but you can try check up forwarding. For Malaysia; there is alot of un-answered in implementing it. Do it totally include tax rebate; or free tax & where consumer can get it so it can include into the CApex of the design..

ozak
post Dec 16 2011, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Dec 16 2011, 05:16 PM)
im nt sure but you can try check up forwarding. For Malaysia; there is alot of un-answered in implementing it. Do it totally include tax rebate; or free tax & where consumer can get it so it can include into the CApex of the design..
*
Don't rush. Just wait and see. The implementing fit won't run away or close next year. When people not respond much, many good thing will throw in the program.

Some US solar site have some year end holiday sales. This is good chance to get some of this solar panel.
venven81
post Dec 18 2011, 12:27 PM

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for those who are into Green Technology and Renewable Energy per se, kindly visit and join the group in facebook for more discussions on RE. More exciting things are coming your way. just be patient and soon there will be more feasible ways to adopt clean energy for your very own consumption smile.gif

Malaysia Renewable Energy
aaronpang
post Jan 6 2012, 02:48 PM

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IMHO FiT in tariff is one thing, are there any competent and certified installers.

Take a look this article, simple setup yet the systems don't work. Botched projects will cause confidence drop and hinder future adoption of solar systems.

Solar-powered lights at bus stops malfunction soon after being fixed

MORE than 80 solar-powered lights at bus stops in Kajang, Cheras and Semenyih malfunctioned within three months after being installed.
Kajang municipal councillor Eddie Ng said only eight out of the 96 lights were functioning and the rest were not in working condition.
Ng said the lights were installed at the end of 2010 and in less than three months many had malfunctioned.


user posted image

user posted image

Dua sen I could probably do a better job DIY the lights than those contractors tongue.gif

Sauce: http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...862&sec=central

My housing area have several solar powered street lights for the community park. Originally installed by the developer, most are functioning 5 years after they're originally installed. Others appear dead, no maintenance probably need to change the bulb or battery.

Has anyone tried to DIY their own solar projects? Share your experience, tips and equipment used.

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 6 2012, 03:15 PM
weikee
post Jan 6 2012, 03:08 PM

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Tips,

- Use good quality cable, as it expose to heat and extreme weather condition.
- Proper sealing because is expose
- Good quality equipments.

aaronpang
post Jan 6 2012, 03:52 PM

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Hello weikee do you know where to purchase good quality outdoor cables? I've been asking around but most electrical shops don't have what I'm looking for.

Managed to find a battery specialist shop called Volga at Bdr Puteri Puchong. Just picked up 100AH 12V GP brand battery today. Cost RM650 shocking.gif
ozak
post Jan 6 2012, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 6 2012, 02:48 PM)
IMHO FiT in tariff is one thing, are there any competent and certified installers.

Take a look this article, simple setup yet the systems don't work. Botched projects will cause confidence drop and hinder future adoption of solar systems.

Solar-powered lights at bus stops malfunction soon after being fixed

MORE than 80 solar-powered lights at bus stops in Kajang, Cheras and Semenyih malfunctioned within three months after being installed.
Kajang municipal councillor Eddie Ng said only eight out of the 96 lights were functioning and the rest were not in working condition.
Ng said the lights were installed at the end of 2010 and in less than three months many had malfunctioned.


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Dua sen I could probably do a better job DIY the lights than those contractors tongue.gif

Sauce: http://thestar.com.my/metro/story.asp?file...862&sec=central

My housing area have several solar powered street lights for the community park. Originally installed by the developer, most are functioning 5 years after they're originally installed. Others appear dead, no maintenance probably need to change the bulb or battery.

Has anyone tried to DIY their own solar projects? Share your experience, tips and equipment used.
*
This kind of project is songlap project lah. It not mean for usage.
weikee
post Jan 6 2012, 04:03 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 6 2012, 03:52 PM)
Hello weikee do you know where to purchase good quality outdoor cables?  I've been asking around but most electrical shops don't have what I'm looking for.

Managed to find a battery specialist shop called Volga at Bdr Puteri Puchong. Just picked up 100AH 12V GP brand battery today. Cost RM650  shocking.gif
*
Don't know. I use 3M +33 Vinyl tape to protect the cable, than put it into a grey PVC pipe. This is what I did when I run expose wires in my mother house. I pull a direct cable from ground floor unused AC socket all the way to first floor toilet. Wire are expose. So far 6 years now. Still running good.
ozak
post Jan 6 2012, 04:08 PM

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Here is my tiny mini solar project. Setup last 2week. It is for my porch car side.

user posted image

user posted image


Added on January 6, 2012, 4:13 pm
QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 6 2012, 03:52 PM)
Hello weikee do you know where to purchase good quality outdoor cables?  I've been asking around but most electrical shops don't have what I'm looking for.

Managed to find a battery specialist shop called Volga at Bdr Puteri Puchong. Just picked up 100AH 12V GP brand battery today. Cost RM650  shocking.gif
*
Here you can get the outdoor cable specially for solar panel. --> http://www.solarpower-mart.com/solar_wire__outdoor_cable

I m interesting of the battery you get. Do you have detail for the address?

What kind of battery is this? It mean for solar? The price seems not that expensive.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 6 2012, 04:13 PM
weikee
post Jan 6 2012, 04:19 PM

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Maybe buy from RS,

http://malaysia.rs-online.com/web/c/cables...e/solar-cables/
ozak
post Jan 6 2012, 04:28 PM

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RS expensive.But sometime I brought from them. No choice. Another 1 is Misumi which selling japan cable and good quality. About RS price but custom tax expensive for cable.

Another shop is at jalan pasar. Walk down toward the plus junction traffic light jalan pudu. The shop is abit hidden and beside the corner parking lot. Don't no what name of the shop.

You can see some cable infront and there demo a cable which submerge inside the water.
weikee
post Jan 6 2012, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 6 2012, 04:28 PM)
RS expensive.But sometime I brought from them. No choice. Another 1 is Misumi which selling japan cable and good quality. About RS price but custom tax expensive for cable.

Another shop is at jalan pasar. Walk down toward the plus junction traffic light jalan pudu. The shop is abit hidden and beside the corner parking lot. Don't no what name of the shop.

You can see some cable infront and there demo a cable which submerge inside the water.
*
Sometime no choice, cause RS bring many stuff not common in Malaysia. Like 3M tapes. Funny 3M factory is in Nilai, but hard to find shop carry 3M tapes
ozak
post Jan 6 2012, 04:46 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 6 2012, 04:34 PM)
Sometime no choice, cause RS bring many stuff not common in Malaysia. Like 3M tapes. Funny 3M factory is in Nilai, but hard to find shop carry 3M tapes
*
This is common.

We here have many solar panel produce factory. But you have problem find a solar panel here.
aaronpang
post Jan 6 2012, 05:31 PM

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Hello waikee and ozak,

Thanks I'll check out RS and Jalan pasar.

Emailed solarpower-mart but they're out of stock for the 4mm solar cable. Just my luck.

QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 6 2012, 04:46 PM)
This is common.

We here have many solar panel produce factory. But you have problem find a solar panel here.
*
Agreed I drive by the Q-CELL factory every... but cannot buy sweat.gif
zzzxtreme
post Jan 6 2012, 06:09 PM

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solar still inefficient, high maintenance, high cost. that's why coal/petroleum still widely used
TSJinXXX
post Jan 6 2012, 08:31 PM

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QUOTE(zzzxtreme @ Jan 6 2012, 06:09 PM)
solar still inefficient, high maintenance, high cost. that's why coal/petroleum still widely used
*
10q cpt obvious smile.gif
ozak
post Jan 6 2012, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(zzzxtreme @ Jan 6 2012, 06:09 PM)
solar still inefficient, high maintenance, high cost. that's why coal/petroleum still widely used
*
The wave is coming even so many bad thing. Malaysia is just starting. The first world is reducing the coal/ petroleum to reduce the carbon footprint.

And without you realize, you might sponsoring this if your bill more than rm77, sweat.gif
KVReninem
post Jan 7 2012, 09:49 PM

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Good deal indeed.

http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0001-500213...er-kit?spr=true
http://www.q2solar.com.au/products

This post has been edited by KVReninem: Jan 8 2012, 02:19 PM
Hornsen
post Jan 8 2012, 11:49 PM

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imo, solar power is cheap, but the expensive part is actually the battery and high power DC-to-AC power inverter.
aaronpang
post Jan 9 2012, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Jan 7 2012, 09:49 PM)
In Malaysia 90watt panel already cost RM800+


weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 09:39 AM

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Malaysia mah, many things need APs
ozak
post Jan 9 2012, 02:18 PM

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The world now produce exccessive solar panel. China are dumping the solar panel out and cause the price getting low. Which angry the US side and see some US manufacturing close shop.

In US during holiday sale last month, can see as low as $1/watt panel. I guess it is china panel. Hope you guys got grab some.

At here, price range around RM9/watt and above. Probably tax and shipment cost which doesn't make sense at all.
weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 02:47 PM

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You need to add, Tax, Coffee money, APs, special approval, logistic, storage, and profit.
ozak
post Jan 9 2012, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 9 2012, 02:47 PM)
You need to add, Tax, Coffee money, APs, special approval, logistic, storage, and profit.
*
It doesn't make sense is, we have many solar panel manufacturing here. And yet get 1 panel also difficult to find. And no shipment cost involve at all. It should be lower cost.

Since gov promote RE here, at least should abolish the solar tax for the local consumption. It benifit the local and the manufacturing here. No money is flying out.

Songlap people money only. sad.gif
weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 03:04 PM

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Promote is very much for show only lah. You and I know very well. Last time say 2010 tax free car in Asia Pacific, see now what we get?
Hornsen
post Jan 9 2012, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 9 2012, 02:59 PM)
It doesn't make sense is, we have many solar panel manufacturing here. And yet get 1 panel also difficult to find. And no shipment cost involve at all. It should be lower cost.

Since gov promote RE here, at least should abolish the solar tax for the local consumption. It benifit the local and the manufacturing here. No money is flying out.

Songlap people money only. sad.gif
*
agree nod.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Solar#Production_history

First Solar in Kulim is SUPER BIG! we should get cheap solar panel one...
weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 03:34 PM

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If the price is good, I will use solar to power all my IT equipment in my server room.

That way, i can save like RM 2 per day as my servers and network usage is about 200watt per hours.

Too bad is still long way to go.
ozak
post Jan 9 2012, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 9 2012, 03:34 PM)
If the price is good, I will use solar to power all my IT equipment in my server room.

That way, i can save like RM 2 per day as my servers and network usage is about 200watt per hours.

Too bad is still long way to go.
*
I already got solar plant for my home server. Since it just use below 100watt for the whole thing.
weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 03:59 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 9 2012, 03:39 PM)
I already got solar plant for my home server. Since it just use below 100watt for the whole thing.
*
Cannot for me, I need minimal 200 watt, too many PoE switches, and routers.
ozak
post Jan 9 2012, 04:05 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 9 2012, 03:59 PM)
Cannot for me, I need minimal 200 watt, too many PoE switches, and routers.
*
That is high bill. Run 24hr can cost you RM30+. sweat.gif
weikee
post Jan 9 2012, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 9 2012, 04:05 PM)
That is high bill. Run 24hr can cost you RM30+. sweat.gif
*
That is why now every time i want to do simulation and testing, got to power up and use, than shut it down.
KVReninem
post Jan 9 2012, 11:49 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 9 2012, 06:39 PM)
I already got solar plant for my home server. Since it just use below 100watt for the whole thing.
*
Can you show us your setting & work? biggrin.gif
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Jan 9 2012, 11:49 PM)
Can you show us your setting & work? biggrin.gif
*
Sorry. I means still in planning stage. Not a single work have been carry out at the moment. blush.gif

Once the job done, will post here.
KVReninem
post Jan 10 2012, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 10 2012, 03:16 AM)
Sorry. I means still in planning stage. Not a single work have been carry out at the moment.  blush.gif

Once the job done, will post here.
*
doh.gif pls dont make it sound like you have done it doh.gif rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by KVReninem: Jan 10 2012, 12:41 AM
TSJinXXX
post Jan 10 2012, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 10 2012, 12:16 AM)
Sorry. I means still in planning stage. Not a single work have been carry out at the moment.  blush.gif

Once the job done, will post here.
*
please share with us ya smile.gif

fyi if anybody plan to bulk or get what ever from oversea.. please check with us maybe some of us can tumpang.. if its cheaper smile.gif
weikee
post Jan 10 2012, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 10 2012, 10:02 AM)
please share with us ya smile.gif

fyi if anybody plan to bulk or get what ever from oversea.. please check with us maybe some of us can tumpang.. if its cheaper smile.gif
*
Too big may get custom attention. The Solar panel is not small for large watt. Maybe need to smuggle from Kulim biggrin.gif
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 10 2012, 10:02 AM)
please share with us ya smile.gif

fyi if anybody plan to bulk or get what ever from oversea.. please check with us maybe some of us can tumpang.. if its cheaper smile.gif
*
Still in talk kok stage. tongue.gif

Forget you want to buy bulk. tongue.gif Actually I have order some panel and relate thing from US during holiday sale. And in the process of sending back here. I m not sure is it cheap enough till I get the final cost include the transport cost and the possible tax. So it is some kind of testing this buying and delivery heavy thing.


TSJinXXX
post Jan 10 2012, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 10 2012, 10:20 AM)
Too big may get custom attention. The Solar panel is not small for large watt. Maybe need to smuggle from Kulim biggrin.gif
*
u got contact ??

QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 10 2012, 10:24 AM)
Still in talk kok stage. tongue.gif

Forget you want to buy bulk. tongue.gif  Actually I have order some panel and relate thing from US during holiday sale. And in the process of sending back here. I m not sure is it cheap enough till I get the final cost include the transport cost and the possible tax. So it is some kind of testing this buying and delivery heavy thing.
*
ordered already still talk cock ?

what you planning to build/do first.. care to share.. or u already share/told u already.. been blurr these few days..
weikee
post Jan 10 2012, 10:44 AM

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No lah, I don't do illegal stuff smile.gif
TSJinXXX
post Jan 10 2012, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 10 2012, 10:44 AM)
No lah, I don't do illegal stuff smile.gif
*
not sure if can talk to their marketing to get a demo panel smile.gif lol
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 10 2012, 10:20 AM)
Too big may get custom attention. The Solar panel is not small for large watt. Maybe need to smuggle from Kulim biggrin.gif
*
You can get those flexible type which you can roll it smaller when shipment.

How about night operasi ahem..ahem.. you got lorry?
weikee
post Jan 10 2012, 10:54 AM

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Maybe we go work there as temp staff smile.gif
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 10 2012, 10:42 AM)
ordered already still talk cock ?

what you planning to build/do first.. care to share.. or u already share/told u already.. been blurr these few days..
*
Yeah lah, Haven't see my item at my door step mah.

Initial stage is to try it what max it can output. My theory calculation is 500+w panel which ouput perday is 2kwh. That should be enough for my house light which I plan to do first. See what is the result before go to another stage. The initial system is upgrade able to 2kw panel.

The dilemma now is what kind of light is save in term of cost, quantity and brightness. So far best is DC all the way to light. Save the cost of inverter and have more watt and amp to output. But that would require me to change all the bulb to DC type and design an auto switching backup circuit incase.

This is small system. As I don't no how is the shipment process will endure. Afraid to buy more. I m using indirect shipping way which cost less and probably no tax. Finger cross.
weikee
post Jan 10 2012, 11:20 AM

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I read some old blog, maybe thos interest can read too.

http://www.rekacipta.net/2011/03/panduan-p...-sel-solar.html
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 10 2012, 11:20 AM)
I read some old blog, maybe thos interest can read too.

http://www.rekacipta.net/2011/03/panduan-p...-sel-solar.html
*
Alot of this project in the net and very interesting. It remind me back some of my tennage project. smile.gif

Here another website where more than thousand project you can choose -> http://www.instructables.com/
aaronpang
post Jan 10 2012, 02:53 PM

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Just to share here is my project, 2 solar power spotlights for garden. Lighting time from 7PM to 6AM, 11-12 hours.

Components:-

1) 12v SLA Battery 7ah x 3 units (wired in parallel to provide 21ah, to be replaced with 100ah battery)
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1495775&hl=7ah
user posted image

10 watt LED spotlight x 2 units (modded to work at 12vdc)
user posted image

Solar Controller
http://www.mudah.my/SLD+T+Solar+Controller...or-11035638.htm
user posted image

50watt Solar Panel from Solar Power Mart
http://solarpower-mart.com/yahoo_site_admi...ET.26875342.pdf
user posted image

Misc Other Items
Outdoor wiring
Panel enclosure box
Crimping pliers and crimp head/lugs
Soldering iron
Shrink tubing/wiring tape
Testpen
------------- dan lain-lain!

I'll post picture of the actual setup later nod.gif

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 10 2012, 03:14 PM
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 10 2012, 02:53 PM)
Just to share here is my project, 2 solar power spotlights for garden. Lighting time from 7PM to 6AM, 11-12 hours.

Components:-

1) 12v SLA Battery 7ah x 3 units (wired in parallel to provide 21ah, to be replaced with 100ah battery)
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=1495775&hl=7ah
user posted image

10 watt LED spotlight  x 2 units (modded to work at 12vdc)
user posted image

Solar Controller
http://www.mudah.my/SLD+T+Solar+Controller...or-11035638.htm
user posted image

50watt Solar Panel from Solar Power Mart
http://solarpower-mart.com/yahoo_site_admi...ET.26875342.pdf
user posted image

Misc Other Items
Outdoor wiring
Panel enclosure box
Crimping pliers and crimp head/lugs
Soldering iron
Shrink tubing/wiring tape
Testpen
------------- dan lain-lain!

I'll post picture of the actual setup later nod.gif
*
May I know what kind of battery you are replacing? I m in a mis of looking for a battery.

The LED spotlight not come in 12VDC? I see mostly in 12VDC.

Base on my calculation usage of 10wx2x12hr = 240whr. Which require 1104whr battery bank capacity (92amp battery). But need 62.4w solar panel which mean 2x50watt solar panel. Provided 5hr sunlight and 2day backup.

By the way, is that lenglui from solar power mart? wub.gif I m interest of her than the panel. wub.gif
TSJinXXX
post Jan 10 2012, 03:57 PM

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damn you guys just, provided all the stuff we need to change all external lights to sun powered..

@ozak so need to pia 5hrs 2 days backup ?

sun shine so little ?

the solar controller dont have input from AC ? as backup ?
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 10 2012, 03:57 PM)
damn you guys just, provided all the stuff we need to change all external lights to sun powered..

@ozak so need to pia 5hrs 2 days backup ?

sun shine so little ?

the solar controller dont have input from AC ? as backup ?
*
5hr is max the sun shine on the panel at certain place. Some country have only 3hr. Not just the sun hr, you need the sun shine angle per your contry longtitude. And panel face south. The rest of the hr sun is not productive or less efficency.

The solar charge controller is for convert the V and A to stable charge the battery. For switching AC backup need another device.
aaronpang
post Jan 10 2012, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 10 2012, 03:33 PM)
May I know what kind of battery you are replacing? I m in a mis of looking for a battery.

The LED spotlight not come in 12VDC? I see mostly in 12VDC.

Base on my calculation usage of 10wx2x12hr = 240whr. Which require 1104whr battery bank capacity (92amp battery). But need 62.4w solar panel which mean 2x50watt solar panel. Provided 5hr sunlight and 2day backup.

By the way, is that lenglui from solar power mart?  wub.gif  I m interest of her than the panel. wub.gif
*
The LED itself are DC, however spotlight from lighting shops work on 110 to 220vac.

When I open up the spotlight there is a a driver that converts mains AC to DC for the LED.

Replacement battery, single 100wh AGM battery from GP.

I picked it up over the weekend but it's not installed yet. Here is the shop I purchased the battery from:-

Volga Battery Specialist
46, Jalan Puteri 5/8, Bandar Puteri Puchong, Puchong, 47100, Puchong, Selangor
Tel 03-8060 5523
Fax 03-8060 5792
HP 016-927 6188

==========================================

Can you help me with this calculation 10wx2x1hr = 20whr.

20whr / 12v = 1.6AH is that correct?

Currently 21AH battery lasts approx 4 hours before lights out, I'm wondering why the battery doesn't last much longer blink.gif

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 10 2012, 05:35 PM
ozak
post Jan 10 2012, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 10 2012, 05:26 PM)
The LED itself are DC, however spotlight from lighting shops work on 110 to 220vac.

When I open up the spotlight there is a a driver that converts mains AC to DC for the LED.

Replacement battery, single 100wh AGM battery from GP... I picked it up over the weekend but it's not installed yet.

==========================================

Can you help me with this calculation 10wx2x1hr = 20whr.

20whr / 12v = 1.6AH is that correct?

Currently 21AH battery lasts approx 4 hours before lights out, I'm wondering why the battery doesn't last much longer  blink.gif
*
The calculation should be correct. That is possible your battery not fully charge. And the battery cannot be use till 0 charge as it will shorten the battery life. To makesure the battery last longer, you cannot discharge more than 50%.

Another possible is your spotlight maybe run more than 20watt.
aaronpang
post Jan 11 2012, 12:10 PM

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Thanks ozak for the confirmation, it's likely the controller cut-off preventing batteries from deep discharging.

I'll get a multimeter to verify if battery voltage drops too low.
ozak
post Jan 11 2012, 01:48 PM

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My another mini tiny solar power light project for CNY. He...

Use 2pcs solar light and modify it to power 2pcs tanglung at the car porch. The tanglung light is 2pcs LED which probably 0.6w. Once the sun down, the light will up till next morning and the solar will charge the battery again.

user posted image

user posted image

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 11 2012, 01:48 PM
aaronpang
post Jan 11 2012, 03:23 PM

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Nice job re-purposing the solar tanglung lantern, originally what are the lights used for?

Just sharing pictures my installed system, pardon the crappy phone cam pictures.

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

I didn't know until I collected the battery, it's extremely heavy!
user posted image

Hope the photos are useful and will motivate others to give solar power a try.

Small scale project like those pictured are easy to setup icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 11 2012, 03:34 PM
weikee
post Jan 11 2012, 03:42 PM

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How much is the 100AH battery? Why not get a normal Car battery? Say 2x NS60? Will it be cheaper? Or N100
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post Jan 11 2012, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 11 2012, 03:23 PM)
Nice job re-purposing the solar tanglung lantern, originally what are the lights used for?

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Original of this solar light is a door entrance or garage light. It use motion and day/light sensor to activate..


Added on January 11, 2012, 4:15 pm
QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 11 2012, 03:42 PM)
How much is the 100AH battery? Why not get a normal Car battery? Say 2x NS60? Will it be cheaper? Or N100
*
Car battery can't be use for solar as it cannot discharge deep. And when use in solar, it have a short lifespan than the AGM battery.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 11 2012, 04:15 PM
aaronpang
post Jan 11 2012, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 11 2012, 03:42 PM)
How much is the 100AH battery? Why not get a normal Car battery? Say 2x NS60? Will it be cheaper? Or N100
*
Paid RM650 for the GP 100AH battery.

It's a good question, originally I wanted to use a car battery too.

Later I found out flooded lead acid batteries are not suitable for solar applications, same reasons per ozak's reply.

Also if stored in a sealed box, car batteries release flammable gas that can explode.

More info on AGM batteries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

In terms of lifespans AGM batteries, have longer lifespans.

Checkout the BMW club forums, AGM batteries last up to 5 years flex.gif

By comparison Kembara batteries need replacing every 1 to 1.5 years sad.gif

Source:- http://www.bmwclubmalaysia.com/forums/show...511-E60-Battery

QUOTE
BTW - original battery lasted 5 years.

5 years seems to be the kind of timeframe I've experienced with my batteries, but with the Mercs I used to get about 10 years...

AGM usually last more than 5 yrs.


=====================================

Found more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93acid_battery

Starting batteries
Main article: Car battery


Lead acid batteries designed for starting automotive engines are not designed for deep discharge. They have a large number of thin plates designed for maximum surface area, and therefore maximum current output, but which can easily be damaged by deep discharge. Repeated deep discharges will result in capacity loss and ultimately in premature failure, as the electrodes disintegrate due to mechanical stresses that arise from cycling. Starting batteries kept on continuous float charge will have corrosion in the electrodes and result in premature failure. Starting batteries should be kept open circuit but charged regularly (at least once every two weeks) to prevent sulfation.

Starting batteries are lighter weight than deep cycle batteries of the same battery dimensions, because the cell plates do not extend all the way to the bottom of the battery case. This allows loose disintegrated lead to fall off the plates and collect under the cells, to prolong the service life of the battery. If this loose debris rises high enough it can touch the plates and lead to failure of a cell, resulting in loss of battery voltage and capacity.

[edit] Deep cycle batteries
Main article: Deep cycle battery


Specially designed deep-cycle cells are much less susceptible to degradation due to cycling, and are required for applications where the batteries are regularly discharged, such as photovoltaic systems, electric vehicles (forklift, golf cart, electric cars and other) and uninterruptible power supplies. These batteries have thicker plates that can deliver less peak current, but can withstand frequent discharging.[9]

Some batteries are designed as a compromise between starter (high-current) and deep cycle batteries. They are able to be discharged to a greater degree than automotive batteries, but less so than deep cycle batteries. They may be referred to as "Marine/Motorhome" batteries, or "leisure batteries".


This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 11 2012, 06:10 PM
weikee
post Jan 11 2012, 07:19 PM

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Yeah, I know the Car battery problem, thought you only use 50% of the 100Ah.

What is the solar block you have? 100Ah full discharge take a large volume of solar block to recharge back in one day.


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post Jan 12 2012, 03:37 PM

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Anyone try some wind turbine? Can instal on the roof to generate some power. He...

Thinking some wind turbine project using some servomotor.
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post Jan 12 2012, 04:00 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 12 2012, 03:37 PM)
Anyone try some wind turbine? Can instal on the roof to generate some power. He...

Thinking some wind turbine project using some servomotor.
*
if i live in kampung sure install one smile.gif

ozak
post Jan 12 2012, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 12 2012, 04:00 PM)
if i live in kampung sure install one smile.gif
*
No need live in kampung 1. Make small small 1. Than decorate with some leaf make look nice on your roof.


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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 12 2012, 04:27 PM)
No need live in kampung 1. Make small small 1. Than decorate with some leaf make look nice on your roof.
*
yeah right

in before neighbour complain and MP what ever come and roboh kan...
weikee
post Jan 12 2012, 07:50 PM

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Need very big fan to generate good electric
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post Jan 12 2012, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 12 2012, 07:50 PM)
Need very big fan to generate good electric
*
Have all this ingredient to make wind turbine lying around. Some spoil servomotor which can use as generator. But don't no how to make a rectifier and some electronicx component to stabilize the voltage.

Just evening try out direct connect with LED. Can light up a LED. But burn out later due to higher rpm.
aaronpang
post Jan 12 2012, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 11 2012, 07:19 PM)
Yeah, I know the Car battery problem, thought you only use 50% of the 100Ah.

What is the solar block you have? 100Ah full discharge take a large volume of solar block to recharge back in one day.
*
Panel is rated at 50watts, originally intended for the 21ah batteries.

I'm going to get a new 90watt or 50watt panel... to pair with the larger battery, haven't decided which yet.

QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 10 2012, 05:44 PM)
The calculation should be correct. That is possible your battery not fully charge. And the battery cannot be use till 0 charge as it will shorten the battery life. To makesure the battery last longer, you cannot discharge more than 50%.

Another possible is your spotlight maybe run more than 20watt.
*
Finally figured out how to use a multimeter sweat.gif this is my first time.

The batteries after a full days charge reads 13.4v at rest. When the batteries are on load its 12.7volts.

Amps pulled by the lights is 1.5amps.

I'll measure the battery voltage in the morning after its powered the lights and switched off.

Wind turbines are interesting, I've researched wind turbines and can honestly say its very challenging!

===========================================================

For all multimeter newbies (like me) the following video is very helpful thumbup.gif



This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 12 2012, 10:10 PM
phoenix69
post Jan 12 2012, 10:08 PM

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Guys .. Check this out. The ultimate Green Energy Generation

http://ibmresearchnews.blogspot.com/2011/1...nergy-from.html
aaronpang
post Jan 12 2012, 10:25 PM

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user posted image

On a lighter note....

Human batteries, tried that in the Matrix. Didn't work so well tongue.gif

IMHO wave energy is still in the R&D or early stages of development, would probably be some time before its adopted commercially.

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 12 2012, 10:26 PM
ozak
post Jan 13 2012, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 12 2012, 10:06 PM)

Wind turbines are interesting, I've researched wind turbines and can honestly say its very challenging!
The mechanical and electrical is no problem for me. But the electronic side like what is the correct component to get is challenging for me. I m electronic noob.

Any pro electronic here?
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post Jan 13 2012, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 13 2012, 01:25 PM)
Any pro electronic here?
*
can i say jalan pasar ? lol smile.gif

you guys really gonna install a miniature wind turbine ??

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post Jan 13 2012, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 13 2012, 02:23 PM)
can i say jalan pasar ? lol smile.gif

you guys really gonna install a miniature wind turbine  ??
*
I need pro electronic guy who can teach me how to convert the wind turbine generate voltage to DC usefull voltage that can charge the battery or run some DC thing. I watch those youtube that only said some diode or rectifier or capacitor.

But all this component have some spec and number. So which 1 is which 1 should I get.
weikee
post Jan 13 2012, 02:49 PM

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Try use Power transistor IC to have constant Voltage. LMZ is good example.


http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMZ10503.html#Overview
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post Jan 13 2012, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 13 2012, 02:39 PM)
I need pro electronic guy who can teach me how to convert the wind turbine generate voltage to DC usefull voltage that can charge the battery or run some DC thing. I watch those youtube that only said some diode or rectifier or capacitor.

But all this component have some spec and number. So which 1 is which 1 should I get.
*
rmbr to put a speed limiter on the turbine ya smile.gif

else = overloadddddd
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post Jan 13 2012, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jan 13 2012, 02:49 PM)
Try use Power transistor IC to have constant Voltage. LMZ is good example.
http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMZ10503.html#Overview
*
I have no idea how to use at all. rclxub.gif

Here some servomotor that can use as wind turbine. Some good, some spoil.

user posted image


Added on January 13, 2012, 3:08 pm
QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 13 2012, 02:53 PM)
rmbr to put a speed limiter on the turbine ya smile.gif

else = overloadddddd
*
Put some gearbox? tongue.gif

What I know is, you need to dumb the load to some power resistor if your battery is fully charge.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 13 2012, 03:08 PM
aaronpang
post Jan 16 2012, 04:07 PM

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I'm wondering is it a good idea to mix and match solar panels from different manufacturers?
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post Jan 16 2012, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 16 2012, 04:07 PM)
I'm wondering is it a good idea to mix and match solar panels from different manufacturers?
*
No problem. If you connect in parallel, makesure the voltage is about the same. Any Amp doesn't matter.

Parallel - Amp + Amp = Total Amp. Voltage same.
Series - V + V = Total voltage. Amp same.
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post Jan 16 2012, 06:44 PM

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Just make sure wind turbine don't fail like this:

ozak
post Jan 16 2012, 09:27 PM

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Wah, scary man.

Got to change design liau.
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post Jan 16 2012, 10:36 PM

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If you have this big of turbine, you going to power your neighborhood houses too.
aaronpang
post Jan 17 2012, 09:49 AM

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Brake failure happens, during high winds a wind turbines can spin itself to destruction.

Personally I like the look of non-traditional vertical axis wind turbines, they're are less visible and compact. Some are beautiful to look at wub.gif

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

I've seen a large vertical axis wind turbine installed at Puchong (not sure of working demo unit) but the turbine is barrel shaped. Will take a picture when I pass by it again.

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 17 2012, 10:44 AM
Hornsen
post Jan 18 2012, 10:07 AM

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TNB report losses again,
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...57&sec=business

better hurry up in building our own power resource...
venven81
post Jan 18 2012, 12:16 PM

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wind turbine doesn't really work in our environment as the wind velocity here is not suitable to generate electricity. go with other options.
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post Jan 18 2012, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(venven81 @ Jan 18 2012, 12:16 PM)
wind turbine doesn't really work in our environment as the wind velocity here is not suitable to generate electricity. go with other options.
*
if you stay on island or near the seaside.. wind turbine is a very good option..

for us who is not near the seaside.. solar is still the best bet smile.gif

whats the highest efficiency for solar panel now days.?

and also the average solar panel pricing within reach and their efficiency ?
ozak
post Jan 18 2012, 09:19 PM

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QUOTE(Hornsen @ Jan 18 2012, 10:07 AM)
TNB report losses again,
http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...57&sec=business

better hurry up in building our own power resource...
*
No need so kiasu lah. Even raise the teriff, still cheaper than solar here. Cause we still in subsidy.
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post Jan 18 2012, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 18 2012, 07:13 PM)
if you stay on island or near the seaside.. wind turbine is a very good option..

for us who is not near the seaside.. solar is still the best bet smile.gif

whats the highest efficiency for solar panel now days.?

and also the average solar panel pricing within reach and their efficiency ?
*
the highest efficiency of production solar panel can be in the range from 15-18%. now the average price per kWp system is in the region of RM10k-RM15k depending on brand.
ozak
post Jan 19 2012, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 18 2012, 07:13 PM)
if you stay on island or near the seaside.. wind turbine is a very good option..

for us who is not near the seaside.. solar is still the best bet smile.gif

whats the highest efficiency for solar panel now days.?

and also the average solar panel pricing within reach and their efficiency ?
*
Here still expensive. Try get from US which probably cost RM8-9 with shipping cost. Efficency vary depend on brand and technology. I see japan brand have higher efficency.
kuluuluk
post Jan 19 2012, 10:09 AM

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Hi, Sorry noob here in Solar Power....

Care to tell where to buy all this stuff? DIY i mean.... smile.gif Plan to do some DIY for Outdoor spotlight with sensor
ozak
post Jan 19 2012, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 19 2012, 10:09 AM)
Hi, Sorry noob here in Solar Power....

Care to tell where to buy all this stuff? DIY i mean.... smile.gif Plan to do some DIY  for Outdoor spotlight with sensor
*
So far I see most complete DIY you can get from local is from here --> http://www.solarpower-mart.com
kuluuluk
post Jan 19 2012, 11:04 AM

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thanks... but ... quite expensive...
aaronpang
post Jan 19 2012, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 19 2012, 10:09 AM)
Hi, Sorry noob here in Solar Power....

Care to tell where to buy all this stuff? DIY i mean.... smile.gif Plan to do some DIY  for Outdoor spotlight with sensor
*
It's okay all are noob at some point.

Do check my earlier post, got parts from almost everywhere. Place like mudah, solar power mart and LYN have sellers that carry most of the things you need. I also shopped around in places like Jalan Pasar or around my neighborhood hardware store.

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2046166/+160#

Solar power mart is the easiest option because they have complete kits that are plug and play. For myself I decided to build from scratch and learn how to calculate the system size etc.

----------------------------------------------------------

The first step is to decide your system sizing, don't rush into buying anything.

This site is helpful to determine your system sizing:-

http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solarcalculator.aspx


Added on January 19, 2012, 11:21 am
QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 19 2012, 11:04 AM)
thanks... but ... quite expensive...
*
You might be surprised to learn this, my system with just the main component, solar panels and battery comes up to RM1650.

That is not including the lights, cables, cable lugs, waterproof housing and so many others.

If calculate the cost of each component for 100W Professional Solar Power System Kit, RM1998 is not that expensive. tongue.gif

BTW I have a spare 10watt solar panel and 3 x 7ah batteries for sale. If you want those please message me.

This post has been edited by aaronpang: Jan 19 2012, 11:21 AM
ozak
post Jan 19 2012, 11:32 AM

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[CODE]
QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 19 2012, 11:04 AM)
thanks... but ... quite expensive...
*
Yup, not cheap. It can cost over thousand for small watt.

I try another DIY wind turbine. Maybe cost cheaper since I have some free parts.


Added on January 19, 2012, 12:45 pm
QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 19 2012, 11:08 AM)
The first step is to decide your system sizing, don't rush into buying anything.

This site is helpful to determine your system sizing:-

http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solarcalculator.aspx
Here is calculating yourself for solar pv size, battery and the charge controller.


The load perday - watt x hour = wh/day.
eg. 20watt for 12hr - 20w x 12hr = 240whr

Next is system losses like controller, cable etc. For mppt - 1.6 and pwm - 2.1
eg. 240whr x 2.1 = 504whr

Check our country sun hour. It is about 4-5hr of sun.

Solar panel size. - total watt hr / sun hr = PV size
eg. 504whr / 5hr = 100.8watt panel size. Round it up and find a panel size probably 1 panel size 120w or 2pcs in parallel 60w size.

Battery size. [day x daily watt] / battery voltage = Amp hour.
eg. [2day x 240whr] / 12V = 40Ahr @ 12VDC.
This battery calculation is keep in 50% discharge by no. of day. Never discharge the battery below 50% as it will damage the battery and shorthen the life. If you want to include the cloudy day, just add in another no. of day.

For charge controller, determine your panel amp. - panel watt / system volt = Amp charge controller.
eg. 120w / 12v = 10A. Get a charge controller larger than 10A. If want future expansion, get bigger size.

This post has been edited by ozak: Jan 19 2012, 12:45 PM
TSJinXXX
post Jan 19 2012, 04:39 PM

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there is a DIY kit @ http://www.solarpower-mart.com

cost abt MYR 1.2k .. for 50 watt system, i think that is a good start..

or the professional MYR 2k kit for 100 watt system

would be good also, to get an intro complete kit.. smile.gif

or you really wan to get into it for cheap for testing 1 light bulb can get the 20 watt system for like 600 MYR...

although initial cost for the DIY might be a little high.. at least u can familiarize yourself with the parts and how it all fit together before you embark on powering your whole house


aaronpang
post Jan 20 2012, 01:20 PM

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Well it could be chaper if the system is build for sensor based spotlight... if that is what kuluuluk wants.

Since the spotlight's are only switched on for brief periods a smaller system would be cost effective, he probably doesnt need a 50watt system.

I'd reckon he can DIY one for around RM500... laugh.gif
kuluuluk
post Jan 20 2012, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(aaronpang @ Jan 20 2012, 01:20 PM)
Well it could be chaper if the system is build for sensor based spotlight... if that is what kuluuluk wants.

Since the spotlight's are only switched on for brief periods a smaller system would be cost effective, he probably doesnt need a 50watt system.

I'd reckon he can DIY one for around RM500...  laugh.gif
*
Thanks guyz... actually i found what i want at the site that you guyz posted. minispotlight...

way way cheaper
KVReninem
post Jan 20 2012, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 18 2012, 10:13 PM)
if you stay on island or near the seaside.. wind turbine is a very good option..

for us who is not near the seaside.. solar is still the best bet smile.gif

whats the highest efficiency for solar panel now days.?

and also the average solar panel pricing within reach and their efficiency ?
*
they are still far from achieving the best of 98% per cell, will take a while. right now efficiency still not there vs price value.
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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Jan 20 2012, 02:35 PM)
they are still far from achieving the best of 98% per cell, will take a while. right now efficiency still not there vs price value.
*
well we gotta start somewhere.. maybe by the time the efficient raised to a resonable level..

i can open my own business specializing in installing solar panels/power system smile.gif yeah to green smile.gif
KVReninem
post Jan 20 2012, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 20 2012, 05:44 PM)
well we gotta start somewhere.. maybe by the time the efficient raised to a resonable level..

i can open my own business specializing in installing solar panels/power system  smile.gif yeah to green smile.gif
*
the best bet is to go LED lighting dealership first then solar will come to generate icon_idea.gif
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QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 20 2012, 02:11 PM)
Thanks guyz... actually i found what i want at the site that you guyz posted. minispotlight...

way way cheaper
*
Probably some example of spotlight.

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2046166/+20
TSJinXXX
post Jan 20 2012, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Jan 20 2012, 03:24 PM)
the best bet is to go LED lighting dealership first then solar will come to generate icon_idea.gif
*
LED ah.. not sure how's the longevity of the LED from china one.. anybody got tested > 10k hrs ?
kuluuluk
post Jan 21 2012, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 20 2012, 06:15 PM)
LED ah.. not sure how's the longevity of the LED from china one.. anybody got tested > 10k hrs ?
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Yo, Get from Malaysia made 1 la.....

at least 3 years warranty.... and one on one swap if faulty found on the LED itself thumbup.gif
KVReninem
post Jan 21 2012, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 20 2012, 09:15 PM)
LED ah.. not sure how's the longevity of the LED from china one.. anybody got tested > 10k hrs ?
*
Look; with LED as the end consumer line; & more effiy products; energy consumption surely can be at cheap isnt it?

Here`s a video, I find it kind of hilarious about the energy bills we are paying- not even market price.



small summary:
Small inverter out grid; not certified by SIRIM sweat.gif (regulatory issues), why isnt worth spending money for this case.


kuluuluk
post Jan 21 2012, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(KVReninem @ Jan 21 2012, 05:01 PM)
Look; with LED as the end consumer line; & more effiy products; energy consumption surely can be at cheap isnt it?

Here`s a video, I find it kind of hilarious about the energy bills we are paying- not even market price.



small summary:
Small inverter out grid; not certified by SIRIM  sweat.gif (regulatory issues), why isnt worth spending money for this case.
*
thumbup.gif thumbup.gif thumbup.gif

You know if most of us have the green. I'm sure alot of us will implement this too...
ozak
post Jan 22 2012, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(kuluuluk @ Jan 21 2012, 10:44 PM)
thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif

You know if most of us have the green. I'm sure alot of us will implement this too...
*
Wallet green first. tongue.gif We here not earn million. sad.gif
TSJinXXX
post Jan 23 2012, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jan 22 2012, 12:11 PM)
Wallet green first. tongue.gif    We here not earn million. sad.gif
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if your somebody from p.klang that won the 52 million jackpot.. sad.gif
ozak
post Jan 23 2012, 09:53 PM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 23 2012, 08:02 PM)
if your somebody from p.klang that won the 52 million jackpot.. sad.gif
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52 million! No need consider green aleady. Full blast 24hr energy. tongue.gif
kuluuluk
post Jan 24 2012, 12:11 AM

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QUOTE(JinXXX @ Jan 23 2012, 08:02 PM)
if your somebody from p.klang that won the 52 million jackpot.. sad.gif
*
Maybe with the 52M... i'll consider to use 1M to install solar to my entire area.
weikee
post Jan 24 2012, 07:49 AM

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52M, I'll migrate.
ihhi
post Jan 26 2012, 02:59 PM

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Looking at the amount of rain these days, don't think it is cost effective
TSJinXXX
post Jan 26 2012, 07:07 PM

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QUOTE(ihhi @ Jan 26 2012, 02:59 PM)
Looking at the amount of rain these days, don't think it is cost effective
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u refering to which area ?
ozak
post Jan 26 2012, 08:37 PM

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QUOTE(ihhi @ Jan 26 2012, 02:59 PM)
Looking at the amount of rain these days, don't think it is cost effective
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We worst than the UK?
cliffang83
post May 18 2012, 09:52 AM

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bump
ozak
post May 18 2012, 11:44 AM

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Nothing much news about gov FIT tariff. But heard this year quota full already for cormersial/industry. For resident, not much news. Don't see gov promote it.

Many thing related to solar is still expensive here.
cliffang83
post May 18 2012, 12:05 PM

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I'm thinking of investing in a 50w panel system, for some out door lights and probably some indoor lights.
Also it will serve as a purpose if there's power failure, good enough if it can power up a fan, auto gate, alarm system.

My concept:
Although there's many components nowadays do comes with back-up power, but I would think it is better to have all the back-up power only in a place than scattered around the house, which most of the people always forgot to maintain the back-up power system, so most of the time we found out that the back-up power is at faulty when we need it.

What you guys think? The down side, not as cost effective, and we rarely got black-out over a year time either.
ozak
post May 18 2012, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(cliffang83 @ May 18 2012, 12:05 PM)
I'm thinking of investing in a 50w panel system, for some out door lights and probably some indoor lights.
Also it will serve as a purpose if there's power failure, good enough if it can power up a fan, auto gate, alarm system.

My concept:
Although there's many components nowadays do comes with back-up power, but I would think it is better to have all the back-up power only in a place than scattered around the house, which most of the people always forgot to maintain the back-up power system, so most of the time we found out that the back-up power is at faulty when we need it.

What you guys think? The down side, not as cost effective, and we rarely got black-out over a year time either.
*
50w panel won't do much thing. It only can generate not more than 200whr/day. If you use for light a bulb or anthing continues, few hr will go off. Using for autogate still ok. Or anything that ON/OFF and not continues power it.

As for backup, is it not cost effective. Unless you don't consider the cost and do it for shiok. smile.gif The cost add up for solar panel set, you can get a UPS to backup incase blackout.
avereng
post Sep 13 2012, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 18 2012, 11:44 AM)
Nothing much news about gov FIT tariff. But heard this year quota full already for cormersial/industry. For resident, not much news. Don't see gov promote it.

Many thing related to solar is still expensive here.
*
The SEDA is giving briefing end of this month. Hope for new quota for residential
ozak
post Sep 13 2012, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 13 2012, 11:33 AM)
The SEDA is giving briefing end of this month. Hope for new quota for residential
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You mean SEDA releasing 2012 quota end of this month for individual?

I hear mostly songlap by crony once quota out. Ordinary people like us no way can get.
avereng
post Sep 13 2012, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 13 2012, 01:17 PM)
You mean SEDA releasing 2012 quota end of this month for individual?

I hear mostly songlap by crony once quota out. Ordinary people like us no way can get.
*
Individual (Residential) quota haven't finished yet. It just 2013 1st half quota left 60kW and 2nd half left 2150kW.

SEDA stop receive application since PV non-individual quota abuse case.

For us, individual quota is our concern. Non-individual wise quota we cannot do much.

U interested to apply?
ozak
post Sep 13 2012, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 13 2012, 02:41 PM)
Individual (Residential) quota haven't finished yet. It just 2013 1st half quota left 60kW and 2nd half left 2150kW.

SEDA stop receive application since PV non-individual quota abuse case.

For us, individual quota is our concern. Non-individual wise quota we cannot do much.

U interested to apply?
*
I m interest to apply. But haven't decide how and when to install. On grid or off grid.

What I know is, you can apply first to fill in the quota. They have the time period to executed.

But this coming open quota is for 2012 or 2013? 2013 Fit rate is not so attractive.
avereng
post Sep 13 2012, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 13 2012, 03:57 PM)
I m interest to apply. But haven't decide how and when to install. On grid or off grid.

What I know is, you can apply first to fill in the quota. They have the time period to executed.

But this coming open quota is for 2012 or 2013? 2013 Fit rate is not so attractive.
*
SEDA quota is for FiT on grid. You will offer REPPA and need to install and commerce the system by a date. You sell 100% electricity to TNB and get paid according to the rate. (for <4kW with retrofit panel at roof, 2013 - RM1.3708 / 2014 - RM1.2612) So, obviously, the sooner be better. You can apply first but you need to find installer to do all documentation for you.

If you want to do off grid, it is not practical and not logic. Solar panel not enough to sustain your house demand and you need battery to store electricity for night. battery will cost you an arm



ozak
post Sep 13 2012, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 13 2012, 05:01 PM)
SEDA quota is for FiT on grid.  You will offer REPPA and need to install and commerce the system by a date. You sell 100% electricity to TNB and get paid according to the rate. (for <4kW with retrofit panel at roof, 2013 - RM1.3708 / 2014 - RM1.2612) So, obviously, the sooner be better. You can apply first but you need to find installer to do all documentation for you.

If you want to do off grid, it is not practical and not logic. Solar panel not enough to sustain your house demand and you need battery to store electricity for night. battery will cost you an arm
*
The documentation is putting me off from apply. Too many form and don't understand at all. The application step is headache. It somehow, you cannot do this thing by yourself. Need to appoint an installer. Wonder can install by myself and appoint installer submit the documentation and approval.

Not mistaken the fit rate for 2012 - 1.23, 2013 - 1.13 and 2014 - 1.04. 21yrs contract.

Initial thinking to just sustain my whole house light only. Not the whole house. But doing off grid will not get 100% output from the panel.

Have you install the solar panel or going to apply? What is your experience about this?
wz3k
post Sep 13 2012, 11:04 PM

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You can contact the service provider / installer company, they'll do everything for you. Just sign, and pay money. Dont even need to leave your house. :-)
avereng
post Sep 13 2012, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 13 2012, 05:30 PM)
The documentation is putting me off from apply. Too many form and don't understand at all. The application step is headache. It somehow, you cannot do this thing by yourself. Need to appoint an installer. Wonder can install by myself and appoint installer submit the documentation and approval.

Not mistaken the fit rate for 2012 - 1.23, 2013 - 1.13 and 2014 - 1.04. 21yrs contract.

Initial thinking to just sustain my whole house light only. Not the whole house. But doing off grid will not get 100% output from the panel.

Have you install the solar panel or going to apply? What is your experience about this?
*
Ha!! Documentation..... My advice is let installer do it for you. One of the documentation is system design, which need certified engineer to approve it. I like to know, what is your plan to install by yourself? Where u going to buy solar panel, inverter, cables, junction box, roof mountings etc. All these need to be reasonable priced and will the distributor going to sell you only 1 unit?

Off grid with battery will cost a lot, mainly due to battery price.
From my rough calculation, installing solar panel just to off set household electricity consumption will take around 18-20 yr to recover the installation cost. With FiT, the rate will recover the cost around 5-6 yrs.

FiT rate which I referring to is
Fit Rate = PV rate + bonus install as building material + local manufactured panel = 1.1316+0.2392 0.0276= RM1.39
can refer www.seda.gov.my

I'm in the process to submit application through installer. So far, what I know is all based on internet and discussion with installers.


This post has been edited by avereng: Sep 14 2012, 08:22 AM
wz3k
post Sep 13 2012, 11:08 PM

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You basically need the following: IC, S&P, Land title, Bank statement showing credit balance RM 40,000 or however much the installer quote you for your system


Added on September 13, 2012, 11:17 pmBro avereng, how many kW system are you going for, what panel brand and how much? Thanks

This post has been edited by wz3k: Sep 13 2012, 11:17 PM
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 12:40 AM

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QUOTE(wz3k @ Sep 13 2012, 11:04 PM)
You can contact the service provider / installer company, they'll do everything for you. Just sign, and pay money. Dont even need to leave your house. :-)
*
Yeah. It is the easy way. But costly also. Guess this kind PV not for poor ppl like me. Still far away from effort. sad.gif


Added on September 14, 2012, 1:12 am
QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 13 2012, 11:05 PM)
Ha!! Documentation..... My advice is let installer do it for you. One of the documentation is system design, which need certified engineer to approve it. I like to know, what is your plan to install by yourself? Where u going to buy solar panel, inverter, cables, junction box, roof mountings etc. All these need to be reasonable priced and will the distributor going to sell you only 1 unit?

Off grid with battery will cost a lot, mainly due to battery price.
From my rough calculation, installing solar panel just to off set household electricity consumption will take around 18-20 yr to recover the installation cost. With FiT, the rate will recover the cost around 5-6 yrs.

FiT rate which I referring to is
Fit Rate = PV rate + bonus install as building material + local manufactured panel = 1.1316+0.2392 0.0276= RM1.39
can refer www.seda.gov.my

I'm in the process to submit application through installer. So far, what I know is all based on internet and discussion with installers.
My initial plan is buy the PV parts, install myself. Than apply for the FIT. Thinking save some cost. But it much more complicated than what I think. Not the technical side. But the application side.

Getting the solar panel and others parts is not difficult for me. It is pretty easy. And I can get it much more cheaper than the local installer. Can instal by myself too.

Actually the battery is 1/2 of the panel cost. Depend how many whr you need.

For the Fit, have you factor in the maintainance cost, parts replacement cost (specially the inverter) and the tax on the income? What is the return when factor in this?

Local panel is not efficency and only 1 manfacturing from kuantan supply. Mostly local PV manufacturing (investor) don't sell locally and export out only. It is a joke when we have many PV amnufacturing. But can't buy even 1pcs.

Maybe you can gain another 0.25 if you use it as building material. Takeout your roof and replace with the PV.

How many KW you intend to install and the cost?



This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 14 2012, 01:12 AM
avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(wz3k @ Sep 13 2012, 11:08 PM)

Added on September 13, 2012, 11:17 pmBro avereng, how many kW system are you going for, what panel brand and how much? Thanks
*
My plan is 6-8kW by financing. Panel should be Yingli/Trina/Suntech, either one of major China manufacturer. Cost still nego. Anyway, price is around RM10k/kW. If go for Euro/Japs brand, cost around RM12.5k/kW

wz3k, what's your plan? how much?

QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 14 2012, 12:40 AM)
Getting the solar panel and others parts is not difficult for me. It is pretty easy. And I can get it much more cheaper than the local installer. Can instal by myself too.

Actually the battery is 1/2 of the panel cost. Depend how many whr you need. 

For the Fit, have you factor in the maintainance cost, parts replacement cost (specially the inverter) and the tax on the income? What is the return when factor in this?

Local panel is not efficency and only 1 manfacturing from kuantan supply. Mostly local PV manufacturing (investor) don't sell locally and export out only. It is a joke when we have many PV amnufacturing. But can't buy even 1pcs.

Maybe you can gain another 0.25 if you use it as building material. Takeout your roof and replace with the PV.
 
How many KW you intend to install and the cost?
*
If you to install first and latter apply FIT, you can start with small scale, install panel with micro inverter. Later on, if you want to apply FIT, you can install more panels with string inverter. The panels with micro inverter can continue to supply with new panels.

Where to buy the panel and other parts? Panel and parts warranty?
Maintenance cost: One installer offer me panel & inverter with 10yrs equipment warranty and 2 yrs free onsite trouble fixing. Cost will recovered by 6yrs. So, 10yrs warranty should be ok but make sure the installer don't bankrupt.

ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 14 2012, 08:52 AM)
My plan is 6-8kW by financing. Panel should be Yingli/Trina/Suntech, either one of major China manufacturer.  Cost still nego. Anyway, price is around RM10k/kW. If go for Euro/Japs brand, cost around RM12.5k/kW

wz3k, what's your plan? how much?
If you to install first and latter apply FIT, you can start with small scale, install panel with micro inverter. Later on, if you want to apply FIT, you can install more panels with string inverter. The panels with micro inverter can continue to supply with new panels.

Where to buy the panel and other parts? Panel and parts warranty?
Maintenance cost: One installer offer me panel & inverter with 10yrs equipment warranty and 2 yrs free onsite trouble fixing. Cost will recovered by 6yrs. So, 10yrs warranty should be ok but make sure the installer don't bankrupt.
*
By financing, you mean take bank loan? SEDA already comeout the bank loan list? What is the interest rate? I thaught SEDA still teaching the bank what is PV.

The installer offer me 16k/kw. German panel and inverter. No china panel as efficeincy is low. If I source by myself, can get cheaper. Warranty still have. But shipping cost have to settle by myself. Parts is from US. Micro inverter is still expensive. But if getting popular and price drop, can consider. DCV panel have more option for me to modify and play around.

Most of the installer will separate the parts warranty. Panel mostly can give over 10yrs warranty. While other parts is vary between 2-5yrs.

How about insuarance?


avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 14 2012, 09:46 AM)
By financing, you mean take bank loan? SEDA already comeout the bank loan list? What is the interest rate? I thaught SEDA still teaching the bank what is PV.

The installer offer me 16k/kw. German panel and inverter. No china panel as efficeincy is low. If I source by myself, can get cheaper. Warranty still have. But shipping cost have to settle by myself. Parts is from US. Micro inverter is still expensive. But if getting popular and price drop, can consider. DCV panel have more option for me to modify and play around.

Most of the installer will separate the parts warranty. Panel mostly can give over 10yrs warranty. While other parts is vary between 2-5yrs.

How about insuarance?
*
Financing is still pending from installer to arrange. If dun get, will go for 4kW.

The price offered to you is high (IMHO). I don't believe the China panel is inferior than Euro. You can compare the 'true' efficiency of panel in California gov website http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/
Other equipments available as well. The California government take up initiative to set up test lab to do testing and review the solar related products. So, it is a good source for reference.

The installer offered separate warranty for panel and inverter but each has 10 yrs warranty.

Insurance? I don't think any available now.

BTW, PV FIT application is available from 24 Sept
wz3k
post Sep 14 2012, 11:53 AM

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I'm getting YingLi. Yes the efficiency is not that much difference if you compare YingLi and other european brand. You shouldn't care to much about efficiency as it will be compensated by the number of panels to get the output that you need anyway.
PJusa
post Sep 14 2012, 02:07 PM

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has anyone of you guys done a ROI calculation? last time (early 2011) i got a proposal done for for approx. 23 kWp with kyocera panels and Kaco inverter. price per kWp 15k++.

i take it prices have dropped a lot in the meantime? then it might be financially feasable to go through with it. what's the typical actual ROI for a lifespan of 20 yrs assuming the panel is worthless by then all things considered (maintenance, insurance for the system, tax etc.)? when i did the calculation in 2011 actual ROI was below FD rate so i didnt go through with it - i need to finance the installation through a loan obviously.

would love to share information and experiences with you guys.
avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Sep 14 2012, 02:07 PM)
has anyone of you guys done a ROI calculation? last time (early 2011) i got a proposal done for for approx. 23 kWp with kyocera panels and Kaco inverter. price per kWp 15k++.

i take it prices have dropped a lot in the meantime? then it might be financially feasable to go through with it. what's the typical actual ROI for a lifespan of 20 yrs assuming the panel is worthless by then all things considered (maintenance, insurance for the system, tax etc.)? when i did the calculation in 2011 actual ROI was below FD rate so i didnt go through with it - i need to finance the installation through a loan obviously.

would love to share information and experiences with you guys.
*
23kWp is huge. We are talking individual residential type.
For ROI, my calculation as below for 4kWp system

Installation Cost: 40k
Return = 4kW x 3.5hr/day x 330 day/yr x RM1.30/kWh = RM6k/yr
(Assume 330 sunny day per yr.Max sunlight only 3.5hrs per day because 4kW is max rated power)

Maintenance assume to be 2 times a yr. (Clean and check PV system) Maintenance service is RM200/service. First 2 yrs free service. Parts cost is zero because installer give 10 yrs warranty for panel and inverter.

ROI in 10yrs = [(RM6k/yr x 10yr) - (8yr x 2 service/yr x RM200)] / [40] = 142%.
Therefore, average ROI a yr is 14.2%
PJusa
post Sep 14 2012, 02:43 PM

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i have a huge roof so its really residential.

but your calculation is a bit off.

yield seems about right though.

you will probably get around 4,400 kWh under ideal real world circumstances. so this would mean aprox. 5720 RM p.a.

minus costs:
cleaning: 400 RM p.a.
insurance for approx. 40k value, probably around 1.5% = 600 RM
writeoff: (40k/20 yrs) = 2k

total costs: 3k
net: 2720 RM p.a.

Return 6,8%

BUT you also need to pay income tax on the proceeds (no writeoff or insurance offset for personal afaik). you you also need to pay income tax on 5720 RM, assuming your rate is 20% then you need to pay 1144 income tax

net 2720 - 1144 = 1576

then the ROI is only 3,9%. its not too shabby now that the costs have fallen so much but its still not super attractive or am i wrong here?


Added on September 14, 2012, 2:57 pmforgot to add - i plan to use my installation as building material and roof replacement. this gives a little extra but its just not enough to finance after paying income tax. i would have to check on the new prices but borrowing the money would cost probably around 4,5%. if i could at least break even on the installation then i'd do it because it's a good thing to use renewable energy but with the current structure of the FiT it still seems that despite the huge drop in PV prices the ones installing them have to chip in at the end of the day.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Sep 14 2012, 02:57 PM
avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 03:00 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Sep 14 2012, 02:43 PM)
i have a huge roof so its really residential.

but your calculation is a bit off.

yield seems about right though.

you will probably get around 4,400 kWh under ideal real world circumstances. so this would mean aprox. 5720 RM p.a.

minus costs:
cleaning: 400 RM p.a.
insurance for approx. 40k value, probably around 1.5% = 600 RM
writeoff: (40k/20 yrs) = 2k

total costs: 3k
net: 2720 RM p.a.

Return 6,8%

BUT you also need to pay income tax on the proceeds (no writeoff or insurance offset for personal afaik). you you also need to pay income tax on 5720 RM, assuming your rate is 20% then you need to pay 1144 income tax

net 2720 - 1144 = 1576

then the ROI is only 3,9%. its not too shabby now that the costs have fallen so much but its still not super attractive or am i wrong here?
*
Your calculation take care most consideration, especially the income tax. I forget bout that one.

but since you include write off in calculation I think you need to modify a bit. Panel life span is long. It has 1% production reduction every yr and inverter has shorter life span, around 10yrs. So, the write off should consider these elements. Too bad I don't know how to calculate.

Which insurance company offering protection to PV system? Could you share?

PJusa
post Sep 14 2012, 03:08 PM

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i also forgot about the income tax untill i almost signed the PO already. then all of a sudden all the profit gone.

the thing about the write off is tricky but from an investment point of view i fear you would have to give it a save lifespan. i also didnt take into consideration the loss in production because it pretty much stable for 20 yrs. there is not enough data yet to make good assumptions for longer periods of time. for example will the panels start to break&crumble or crack? our weather is unforgiving - even hammerite doesnt last more than 2 yrs under the direct sun. i spoke wiht a lot of the installers and they are confident for 25 yrs, maybe MAYBE 30yrs. so if you're daring then by all means write off the system over 30yrs. this will add 733.33 RM p.a. to the calculation i.e.

2309 p.a. = 5.77% so you can actually break even if you finance the installtio. margin is thin though.

as for the insurance i only made a call to MCIS Zurich before and asked if i can include it under the houseowner policy if the panels are used as building material. answer: can. not so sure if you can insure them if they are not part of the roof. maybe under general risk, not sure about the premium then though. under houseowner will surely be cheaper cause that premium is regulated.

who did your proposal btw?
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 14 2012, 10:25 AM)
Financing is still pending from installer to arrange. If dun get, will go for 4kW.

The price offered to you is high (IMHO). I don't believe the China panel is inferior than Euro. You can compare the 'true' efficiency of panel in California gov website http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/
Other equipments available as well. The California government take up initiative to set up test lab to do testing and review the solar related products. So, it is a good source for reference.

The installer offered separate warranty for panel and inverter but each has 10 yrs warranty.

Insurance? I don't think any available now.

BTW, PV FIT application is available from 24 Sept
*
So far what I know, 16k/kw is about average. Since it is german system they offer, I guess the price is about there. They don't offer china panel cause the data efficiency is not that good.

The insuarance is not from the local. The whole system is insuare by the german PV manufacturing appoint insuarance company. Which is from german too. They cover the system defect, lost and even income lost due to product.

If you want to have real local pv output data, check here -> http://www.cooltek.org/pv-solar.php Download the pdf report. This guy have 4.8kwp since 2007 and record everyday output power of his PV. He complaining about TNB late payment for his FIT.
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Sep 14 2012, 02:07 PM)
has anyone of you guys done a ROI calculation? last time (early 2011) i got a proposal done for for approx. 23 kWp with kyocera panels and Kaco inverter. price per kWp 15k++.

i take it prices have dropped a lot in the meantime? then it might be financially feasable to go through with it. what's the typical actual ROI for a lifespan of 20 yrs assuming the panel is worthless by then all things considered (maintenance, insurance for the system, tax etc.)? when i did the calculation in 2011 actual ROI was below FD rate so i didnt go through with it - i need to finance the installation through a loan obviously.

would love to share information and experiences with you guys.
*
The ROI did put me off from proceed further. Unless I did it my way. Which I get the system myself and install. Way cheaper alot.

For resindential, the max is 12kwp. For 23kwp, you need to apply under cormercial quota. And the rate much more lower.
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 14 2012, 03:00 PM)
Your calculation take care most consideration, especially the income tax. I forget bout that one.

but since you include write off in calculation I think you need to modify a bit. Panel life span is long. It has 1% production reduction every yr and inverter has shorter life span, around 10yrs. So, the write off should consider these elements. Too bad I don't know how to calculate.

Which insurance company offering protection to PV system? Could you share?
*
Even the panel lifespan is long, your contract with TNB is max 21yrs. Should we calculate till 21yrs?
weikee
post Sep 14 2012, 05:22 PM

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Long as it state? Or actually being tested ? Just like led, it last long but performance drop after continues used for few years. Brightness drop.

This post has been edited by weikee: Sep 14 2012, 05:23 PM
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 14 2012, 05:22 PM)
Long as it state? Or actually being tested ? Just like led, it last long but performance drop after continues used for few years. Brightness drop.
*
The efficiency will drop every yrs. So till end of your contract 21yrs, don't think your income will be the same.

At here due to hot weather, the performance will be drop further. Solar panel work best when cool clear sunny day.
weikee
post Sep 14 2012, 07:04 PM

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Now they use solar to boil water, the steam to drive generator. This are more economical and efficient. But need larger area. If got concrete roof maybe can consider ;-)
PJusa
post Sep 14 2012, 08:13 PM

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ozak,

where did you get the info that max is 12 kwp for residential? we prepared the entire proposal and all in feb 2011 and noone objected or pointed out a max. kwp per application. did the rules change?

if you can make it large, it should be done due to economies of scale. no point in many small setups if you can do one that covers the entire roof right?
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Sep 14 2012, 08:13 PM)
ozak,

where did you get the info that max is 12 kwp for residential? we prepared the entire proposal and all in feb 2011 and noone objected or pointed out a max. kwp per application. did the rules change?

if you can make it large, it should be done due to economies of scale. no point in many small setups if you can do one that covers the entire roof right?
*
I get the information from the installer who conduct the workshop. The quota seems from the SEDA. I only remember the individual which max is 12kw. For commercial something like Mw max. While the farm type, need to have najib contact. Otherwise no installer can help you.

Many rule doesn't make sense and seems like protect themselve. Like the yearly quota. Why to have quota to limit the application? Gov have a target of 17% till 2030 for RE. The explain is, TNB don't have much free money to give?

avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Sep 14 2012, 08:13 PM)
ozak,

where did you get the info that max is 12 kwp for residential? we prepared the entire proposal and all in feb 2011 and noone objected or pointed out a max. kwp per application. did the rules change?

if you can make it large, it should be done due to economies of scale. no point in many small setups if you can do one that covers the entire roof right?
*
From RE Act, you can apply up to 72kW for individual. Anyway, rules may change over time
ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 14 2012, 07:04 PM)
Now they use solar to boil water, the steam to drive generator. This are more economical and efficient. But need larger area. If got concrete roof maybe can consider  ;-)
*
I wonder the solar heater here can achieve this boiling point or not. I can see something can invent from there. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by ozak: Sep 14 2012, 11:15 PM
avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 14 2012, 10:43 PM)
Many rule doesn't make sense and seems like protect themselve. Like the yearly quota. Why to have quota to limit the application? Gov have a target of 17% till 2030 for RE. The explain is, TNB don't have much free money to give?
*
Why have quota limit? Bcoz SEDA has limited funding. We pay only extra 1% on electricity bill for RE FIT rate. RE FIT rate is 3 times higher our residential electricity rate.

ozak
post Sep 14 2012, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 14 2012, 10:51 PM)
Why have quota limit? Bcoz SEDA has limited funding. We pay only extra 1% on electricity bill for RE FIT rate. RE FIT rate is 3 times higher our residential electricity rate.
*
I read somewhere that inorder to supply 1kw to a house, TNB need to generate 3kw. Much of the energy lost at the transmiting and converting. If residential generate the electricity of it own, that save the TNB of 2kw. So why need funding?

Residential electricity is subsidy. I believe TNB don't get much profit from residential or probaly lost. If residential can generate it own electricity, TNB can transfer the much need to the commercial use which have better rate. Ain't this give better profit to TNB. So why to have quota?

Gov or TNB is subsidy our electricity. If residential generate it own electricity, TNB don't need to pay more subsidy. Can they use the subsidy to pay some portion for the FIT? That don't require our funding.

YTL generate power and sell to TNB. We are smaller scale of YTL. What rate do TNB given to YTL?
avereng
post Sep 14 2012, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 14 2012, 11:13 PM)
I read somewhere that inorder to supply 1kw to a house, TNB need to generate 3kw. Much of the energy lost at the transmiting and converting. If residential generate the electricity of it own, that save the TNB of 2kw. So why need funding?

Residential electricity is subsidy. I believe TNB don't get much profit from residential or probaly lost. If residential can generate it own electricity, TNB can transfer the much need to the commercial use which have better rate. Ain't this give better profit to TNB. So why to have quota?

Gov or TNB is subsidy our electricity. If residential generate it own electricity, TNB don't need to pay more subsidy. Can they use the subsidy to pay some portion for the FIT? That don't require our funding.

YTL generate power and sell to TNB. We are smaller scale of YTL. What rate do TNB given to YTL?
*
This is totally spinning and misleading! I'm in power generation industry. The biggest loser fuel price is Petronas. Petronas has to sell fuel to TNB/IPP and super cheap fixed price. The electricity price we are paying now is artificial.

3kW generation to supply resident 1kW usage. The one who tell you..... I cannot find a suitable word to describe the guy.
Transmission and distribution has efficiency more than 90% If 3kW generate from power plant and supply to grid, the consumer can receive 2.8++kW.
TNB did well in transmission and distribution.

RE FIT rate is paid by 1% surcharge on our electricity bill. TNB collect the 1% surcharge and pay to RE FIT installer. SEDA is monitoring all these. TNB is buying electricity less than RM0.20/kWh from TNB and IPP power plant. This price is artificial bcoz fuel price is subsidized by Petronas.

ozak
post Sep 15 2012, 12:01 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 14 2012, 11:31 PM)
This is totally spinning and misleading! I'm in power generation industry. The biggest loser fuel price is Petronas. Petronas has to sell fuel to TNB/IPP and super cheap fixed price. The electricity price we are paying now is artificial.

3kW generation to supply resident 1kW usage. The one who tell you..... I cannot find a suitable word to describe the guy.
Transmission and distribution has efficiency more than 90% If 3kW generate from power plant and supply to grid, the consumer can receive 2.8++kW.
TNB did well in transmission and distribution.

RE FIT rate is paid by 1% surcharge on our electricity bill. TNB collect the 1% surcharge and pay to RE FIT installer. SEDA is monitoring all these. TNB is buying electricity less than RM0.20/kWh from TNB and IPP power plant. This price is artificial bcoz fuel price is subsidized by Petronas.
*
Here about the power lost. -> http://www.solarvoltaic.com/ Under " So why do we have AC 240V if everything is DC? "

I thaught the main is gas, 2nd is coal and 3rd is hydro? And coming is nuclear energy which decide by 2014.

Yup, the elctricity price here is artificial, 1 of the reason why we don't need RE at the moment.
avereng
post Sep 15 2012, 08:54 AM

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'So why do we have AC 240V if everything is DC?' is nonsense.
Msia transmit electricity in High Voltage AC (275kW etc) and when reach near to user end, the voltage will reduced by transformer till 415V.
The 300% loss is misleading but I believe they are taking energy efficiency from fuel to user end. Power plant has efficiency from 35-55% (latest tech has higher efficiency) If included the loss in transmission and distribution, from fuel to user end energy efficiency is 30-50%
ozak
post Sep 15 2012, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 15 2012, 08:54 AM)
'So why do we have AC 240V if everything is DC?' is nonsense.
Msia transmit electricity in High Voltage AC (275kW etc) and when reach near to user end, the voltage will reduced by transformer till 415V.
The 300% loss is misleading but I believe they are taking energy efficiency from fuel to user end. Power plant has efficiency from 35-55% (latest tech has higher efficiency) If included the loss in transmission and distribution, from fuel to user end energy efficiency is 30-50%
*
Thanks for correcting that stupid website. But you need to comeout some link or reading for us to read and believe. We don't no about power generation.

So are you decide to go ahead with the Fit? Does the ROI look good to you after some mis calculation?
avereng
post Sep 15 2012, 10:57 AM

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the ROI with income tax and write off is really low. however ,income tax is depends on your total income. Maybe ask retired father to apply. for write off, i take it as buying a car. We can dump 100k for Japanese car yet no income, why not go for FIT
PJusa
post Sep 15 2012, 11:48 AM

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well i dont know about you but for me FiT only can be considered as an alternative investment. i think i'd rather put the money in my EPF then. income not taxed and after 20 years i have my profits AND the money i put in.

of course you can always say its better than buying a car (and it probably is) but i am not that green i am afraid.

as for the income tax idea that is not a stupid idea - but i was under impression the person applying has to be the owner of the house isnt it?

for our case the income tax is even higher so it leaches off the profits so much that under a fully financed case i end up loosing money. the government really should make income from FiT tax free instead of having the agencies boost unfounded ROIs around that dont consider either running costs, write offs and income tax.

if you register under a company you can write off the installation and all the maintenance probably too right (i dont run a company so its an assumption) and then pay tax on the profits - that's fine.

for personal there is no such write off and yet have to pay tax on the FULL amount. this just means they really dont want private parties to install the PV systems. that's OK I just wish they'd be honest about it so nobody gets their hopes up that they are given a good investment opportunity there.

well i am afraid PV is still a no go for me then. just not worth the expenditure sad.gif
ozak
post Sep 16 2012, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 15 2012, 10:57 AM)
the ROI with income tax and write off is really low. however ,income tax is depends on your total income. Maybe ask retired father to apply. for write off, i take it as buying a car. We can dump 100k for Japanese car yet no income, why not go for FIT
*
The house property need to be your name if you apply for Fit.

I wish you can go ahead with the Fit even the ROI is not so convincing for your earning sense. Combine other like your interest, RE and CO2, guess contribute abit is not that difficult.

Let us know your progress, experience go through all the progress, some picture and the data. At least we have some first hand story about this so new Fit thing.
avereng
post Sep 17 2012, 10:06 AM

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I just submitted doc for installer. they finished the engineering design. now waiting SEDA open up application.
Installer advise to act fast, any doc submission need within this week. once SEDA application open, it may be too late
ozak
post Sep 17 2012, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 17 2012, 10:06 AM)
I just submitted doc for installer. they finished the engineering design. now waiting SEDA open up application.
Installer advise to act fast, any doc submission need within this week. once SEDA application open, it may be too late
*
Not neccessary. Apply the quota first if everything haven't done. The installer will help you with the online form. The quota have grace period of many mth. So slow slow no problem. This is told by installer.

Another important thing is don't forget to register reppa with seda.
avereng
post Sep 19 2012, 01:25 PM

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ozak, u registered in SEDA?
now the efit is alive.
ozak
post Sep 19 2012, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 19 2012, 01:25 PM)
ozak, u registered in SEDA?
now the efit is alive.
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Don't see any eFit in the website. Not on 24th?
avereng
post Sep 20 2012, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 19 2012, 11:37 PM)
Don't see any eFit in the website. Not on 24th?
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go to Seda website, right top corner, click login.
you will find yourself in efit. you can register.
installer may do for you
ozak
post Sep 20 2012, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 07:42 AM)
go to Seda website, right top corner, click login.
you will find yourself in efit. you can register.
installer may do for you
*
Thanks. already register. But the website is blank when go in. Nothing there. Maybe overload. hmm.gif
avereng
post Sep 20 2012, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 20 2012, 09:08 AM)
Thanks. already register. But the website is blank when go in. Nothing there. Maybe overload. hmm.gif
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Wait till next week. then, we know.
How many kW you want to install? DIY?
ozak
post Sep 20 2012, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 11:42 AM)
Wait till next week. then, we know.
How many kW you want to install? DIY?
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Actually I prefer wait and see. Just register first. Wait for next yrs and see. The cost of installation is still high. I would like to DIY if the installer can help me with the document side. Which I hate to do it.
avereng
post Sep 20 2012, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 20 2012, 12:40 PM)
Actually I prefer wait and see. Just register first. Wait for next yrs and see. The cost of installation is still high. I would like to DIY if the installer can help me with the document side. Which I hate to do it.
*
Bcoz of the regulations, you must have certified person to do all doc jobs. So, I think you can apply quota in 2013 or 2014. You wait the price comes down.
Anyway, the few big solar panel companies in difficult financial position now. If they bankrupt and supply reduced, price may goes up.
ozak
post Sep 20 2012, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 01:18 PM)
Bcoz of the regulations, you must have certified person to do all doc jobs. So, I think you can apply quota in 2013 or 2014. You wait the price comes down.
Anyway, the few big solar panel companies in difficult financial position now. If they bankrupt and supply reduced, price may goes up.
*
There is possible 2 situation for price up or price down. Remember even if the price material is down, the labour and logistic will up yrs by yrs. So probably the price will be no different or even up.

If the PV market become popular here, the competitor hit up. Hence, the price will drop. But possible crap material to cut cost.

Why the seda Fit rate lower by yrs? Possible because of price drop for installation they forecast?

Suprising, even some going bankrupt but the demanding is still high. The bankrupt is cause of price compete. And not because of low demand. The good example is, local PV maufacturing. You can't even buy 1 from them.
avereng
post Sep 20 2012, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 20 2012, 01:35 PM)
There is possible 2 situation for price up or price down. Remember even if the price material is down, the labour and logistic will up yrs by yrs. So probably the price will be no different or even up.

If the PV market become popular  here, the competitor hit up. Hence, the price will drop. But possible crap material to cut cost.

Why the seda Fit rate lower by yrs? Possible because of price drop for installation they forecast?

Suprising, even some going bankrupt but the demanding is still high. The bankrupt is cause of price compete. And not because of low demand. The good example is, local PV maufacturing. You can't even buy 1 from them.
*
Why Seda FiT rate drop? FiT is to help renewable energy break into energy market. When initial cost is high, no one like to invest. So, FiT rate gives high price and encourage renewable energy to grow but this is not sustainable. When the renewable energy technology is abundant and mature, price will comes down and finally will on par with fossil fuel technology. When renewable energy cost is close to fossil fuel, FiT rate no more needed. This is called grid parity.

Pricing wise. It is balance of supply and demand. Low demand sure will drive manufacturer reduce price. Manufacturer must sell panels to survive.
Msia panel manufacturer never target local market. Msia give good investment conditions panel manufacturer.


Added on September 27, 2012, 8:32 am
QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 02:16 PM)
Why Seda FiT rate drop? FiT is to help renewable energy break into energy market. When initial cost is high, no one like to invest. So, FiT rate gives high price and encourage renewable energy to grow but this is not sustainable. When the renewable energy technology is abundant and mature, price will comes down and finally will on par with fossil fuel technology. When renewable energy cost is close to fossil fuel, FiT rate no more needed. This is called grid parity.

Pricing wise. It is balance of supply and demand. Low demand sure will drive manufacturer reduce price. Manufacturer must sell panels to survive.
Msia panel manufacturer never target local market. Msia give good investment conditions panel manufacturer.
*
I've filed in my application on 24 Sept (Mon)
Now, I'm waiting for Seda verification.
Hope will approve soon. I'm expecting generating power by Dec.

This post has been edited by avereng: Sep 27 2012, 08:32 AM
cliffang83
post Sep 27 2012, 04:53 PM

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Is there any useful info for installing solar panel?
I'm looking into the Seda program.
ozak
post Sep 27 2012, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 02:16 PM)
I've filed in my application on 24 Sept (Mon)
Now, I'm waiting for Seda verification.
Hope will approve soon. I'm expecting generating power by Dec.
*
Shouldn't be any problem. Good luck to you.
ozak
post Sep 27 2012, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(cliffang83 @ Sep 27 2012, 04:53 PM)
Is there any useful info for installing solar panel?
I'm looking into the Seda program.
*
Read through this thread. And you will be able to understand some.
avereng
post Sep 27 2012, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(cliffang83 @ Sep 27 2012, 04:53 PM)
Is there any useful info for installing solar panel?
I'm looking into the Seda program.
*
What type of info you looking for?
From $$, investment around RM40k-50k for 4kW system with RM600 monthly return
From technical, plenty of premium grade Euro brand and good bargain China brand panel & inverter.

All should start from your landed property roof. It will decide the max capacity of your solar system.

cliffang83
post Sep 28 2012, 05:29 PM

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So if I install the solar panel inverter, can the same inverter be used for horizontal wind turbine??
avereng
post Sep 28 2012, 08:16 PM

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QUOTE(cliffang83 @ Sep 28 2012, 05:29 PM)
So if I install the solar panel inverter, can the same inverter be used for horizontal wind turbine??
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From what I know, wind and solar have different inverter.
cliffang83
post Sep 29 2012, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 28 2012, 08:16 PM)
From what I know, wind and solar have different inverter.
*
Thank you. Really new into this, so i think there's so much more I need to study on.
Thanks....
ozak
post Sep 29 2012, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(cliffang83 @ Sep 29 2012, 11:01 AM)
Thank you. Really new into this, so i think there's so much more I need to study on.
Thanks....
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No need sturdy lah. Got money, straight appointment with installer. Everything kau tim by them. It is that easy.
weikee
post Sep 29 2012, 11:17 AM

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Got money go buy a property or car lah. This investment got no return.
ozak
post Sep 29 2012, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 29 2012, 11:17 AM)
Got money go buy a property or car lah. This investment got no return.
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Fit is like buying a car put it on your rooftop.
avereng
post Sep 29 2012, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 29 2012, 11:21 AM)
Fit is like buying a car put it on your rooftop.
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car don't pay you every month for 21 years.
some more, have to pay monthly installment and petrol
weikee
post Sep 29 2012, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 29 2012, 05:45 PM)
car don't pay you every month for 21 years.
some more, have to pay monthly installment and petrol
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But you pay advance for electricity, and no guarantee of recovering. Car at least you drive and get to enjoy.
ozak
post Sep 29 2012, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 29 2012, 05:45 PM)
car don't pay you every month for 21 years.
some more, have to pay monthly installment and petrol
*
But I will buy the car than this pv if I don't have a car.

Car payback in term of time, convenient and business (status).

Any yeah, you get a wife too with the car. Pv can't. tongue.gif
avereng
post Sep 29 2012, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Sep 29 2012, 07:13 PM)
But you pay advance for electricity, and no guarantee of recovering. Car at least you drive and get to enjoy.
*
what i mean for solar generation is come with feed in tariff quota and 21 years fixed price renewable power purchasing agreement.
No guarantee?this is better than first gen IPP


Added on September 29, 2012, 9:27 pm
QUOTE(ozak @ Sep 29 2012, 08:01 PM)
But I will buy the car than this pv if I don't have a car.

Car payback in term of time, convenient and business (status).

Any yeah, you get a wife too with the car. Pv can't.  tongue.gif
*
i already have both. haha!

This post has been edited by avereng: Sep 29 2012, 09:27 PM
VeeJay
post Oct 3 2012, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Sep 20 2012, 02:16 PM)


Added on September 27, 2012, 8:32 am
I've filed in my application on 24 Sept (Mon)
Now, I'm waiting for Seda verification.
Hope will approve soon. I'm expecting generating power by Dec.
*
Keep us posted when you get a reply from them. Thanks
Infinity
post Oct 3 2012, 05:06 PM

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quick question, how did the power generated from the solar will feed back to TNB ?

it's 15 pages, i just lazy to read, hope someone can give me a quick one
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post Oct 3 2012, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 3 2012, 05:06 PM)
quick question, how did the power generated from the solar will feed back to TNB ?

it's 15 pages, i just lazy to read, hope someone can give me a quick one
*
Under the grid connected system, the power generated by solar will go back to the grid. So that's mean, not only you will use the power, your neighbor or people staying in the same area will use the power generated from your roof top. With the Installed FIT meter, you will see how much Kw of power has been generated by your roof top solar system and TNB will pay you the money based how much has generated.
Infinity
post Oct 3 2012, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(juneww @ Oct 3 2012, 05:17 PM)
Under the grid connected system, the power generated by solar will go back to the grid. So that's mean, not only you will use the power, your neighbor or people staying in the same area will use the power generated from your roof top. With the Installed FIT meter, you will see how much Kw of power has been generated by your roof top solar system and TNB will pay you the money based how much has generated.
*
thanks i believe a grid tie inverter is required, anyone know of any brand recognise by FIT for let say 1kw per day ?
avereng
post Oct 3 2012, 10:19 PM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 3 2012, 05:29 PM)
thanks i believe a grid tie inverter is required, anyone know of any brand recognise by FIT for let say 1kw per day ?
*
No specific brands required by SEDA. But technical requirements under RE Act 2011 Regulation (Technical & Operation Requirements)

Generally home use grid tied PV inverter has 2 major camps.
EU/US/Jap camp has SMA, Power One, Danfoss, Kaco
China camp has Sungrow, Growatt, Samill

I may left out a few.

Infinity
post Oct 3 2012, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Oct 3 2012, 10:19 PM)
No specific brands required by SEDA. But technical requirements under RE Act 2011 Regulation (Technical & Operation Requirements)

Generally home use grid tied PV inverter has 2 major camps.
EU/US/Jap camp has SMA, Power One, Danfoss, Kaco
China camp has Sungrow, Growatt, Samill

I may left out a few.
*
thanks,

i'm wondering will this work

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solar-Panel-to-Gri...=item3cc9853d13
ozak
post Oct 4 2012, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 3 2012, 11:24 PM)
You cannot use any grid tie inverter. The inverter need TNB approved. You can put in. But maybe won't get pass by ISPQ engineer. Which will check your system before approve for Fit start.
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post Oct 4 2012, 01:29 AM

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ops, that's why ler, any one know any 'approved' brand or model that will fit ? i'm not familiar with this
phanghy
post Oct 4 2012, 01:52 AM

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I have just bought a subsale house fitted with pv. Does anyone know if the original tnb agreement can be transferred to new owner?
ozak
post Oct 4 2012, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 4 2012, 01:29 AM)
ops, that's why ler, any one know any 'approved' brand or model that will fit ? i'm not familiar with this
*
I guess no 1 here sell it in open market. As the market is still small.

Maybe can get it from some pv installer. But it won't be cheap. And the size min is 4kw.


Added on October 4, 2012, 8:23 am
QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 4 2012, 01:52 AM)
I have just bought a subsale house fitted with pv. Does anyone know if the original tnb agreement can be transferred to new owner?
*
I ask the installer before. They said it is transfer able as the pv is under the property name.

This post has been edited by ozak: Oct 4 2012, 08:23 AM
avereng
post Oct 4 2012, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 4 2012, 01:52 AM)
I have just bought a subsale house fitted with pv. Does anyone know if the original tnb agreement can be transferred to new owner?
*
It is transferable but need to be done by previous Renewable Energy Power Purchasing Agreement owner.
The owner has to apply through SEDA.

U untung la! Got the REPPA from house owner, without paying for installation and applying quota

Did the owner sell the house with higher price?


Added on October 4, 2012, 8:49 am
QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 3 2012, 11:24 PM)
All brands I mentioned in previous post are suitable to FIT installation. These inverter have to meet CE, UL and TUV standard and widely use in Euro, Aus and US

Price wise? 4kW grid tie inverter cost around RM5k. I believed SMA will be higher and China brand will be cheaper
1-2kW grid tie inverter also available but less popular bcoz in Msia, ppl install 4kW PV system

This ebay inverter is more suitable for hobby use.

This post has been edited by avereng: Oct 4 2012, 08:49 AM
Infinity
post Oct 4 2012, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Oct 4 2012, 08:43 AM)
It is transferable but need to be done by previous Renewable Energy Power Purchasing Agreement owner.
The owner has to apply through SEDA.

U untung la! Got the REPPA from house owner, without paying for installation and applying quota

Did the owner sell the house with higher price?


Added on October 4, 2012, 8:49 am

All brands I mentioned in previous post are suitable to FIT installation. These inverter have to meet CE, UL and TUV standard and widely use in Euro, Aus and US

Price wise? 4kW grid tie inverter cost around RM5k. I believed SMA will be higher and China brand will be cheaper
1-2kW grid tie inverter also available but less popular bcoz in Msia, ppl install 4kW PV system

This ebay inverter is more suitable for hobby use.
*
thanks, was thinking of running a 1kw system to 'try' first. Cause SEDA FIT have quota i heard, they might not accept me. So it's more like own use to save abit and POC now. Once confirm they accept, then I will go 4kw


This post has been edited by Infinity: Oct 4 2012, 03:11 PM
avereng
post Oct 4 2012, 03:18 PM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 4 2012, 03:10 PM)
thanks, was thinking of running a 1kw system to 'try' first. Cause SEDA FIT have quota i heard, they might not accept me. So it's more like own use to save abit and POC now. Once confirm they accept, then I will go 4kw
*
If you're interested in FIT, I advise you to apply NOW. Quota is still available for 2012 and 2013.
BTW, as suggest by SEDA, you need apply through certified contractor. Some doc need certification from certified civil engineer and ISPQ engineer.

phanghy
post Oct 5 2012, 03:53 AM

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[quote=avereng,Oct 4 2012, 08:43 AM]
It is transferable but need to be done by previous Renewable Energy Power Purchasing Agreement owner.
The owner has to apply through SEDA.
[/quote]

Thank you for your advise. Better get the owner to do preparation of transfer early. Otherwise he might take his own sweet time after hand over and still get money since still under his name.

[/quote]
U untung la! Got the REPPA from house owner, without paying for installation and applying quota

Did the owner sell the house with higher price?
[/quote]

I dont think got untung. Owner already factor price of pv into selling price. Maybe owner factor in more than he originally paid for the pv as selling price of property is much higher than than his original purchase price. In this case owner untung I rugi cry.gif
avereng
post Oct 5 2012, 08:08 AM

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[quote=phanghy,Oct 5 2012, 03:53 AM]
Thank you for your advise. Better get the owner to do preparation of transfer early. Otherwise he might take his own sweet time after hand over and still get money since still under his name.

[/quote]
U untung la! Got the REPPA from house owner, without paying for installation and applying quota

Did the owner sell the house with higher price?
[/quote]

I dont think got untung. Owner already factor price of pv into selling price. Maybe owner factor in more than he originally paid for the pv as selling price of property is much higher than than his original purchase price. In this case owner untung I rugi cry.gif
*

[/quote]

I hope your house SPA still in lawyer processing, make sure the name transfer completed before you release payment.

BTW, what is your system capacity? This will decide your monthly income from PV system?
You can calculated the remaining 'return' from FIT REPPA.
ozak
post Oct 5 2012, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(Infinity @ Oct 4 2012, 03:10 PM)
thanks, was thinking of running a 1kw system to 'try' first. Cause SEDA FIT have quota i heard, they might not accept me. So it's more like own use to save abit and POC now. Once confirm they accept, then I will go 4kw
*
Fit is not like what you thing can DIY. You can't do anything yourself, but everything got to go through installer. Which is not cheap.


avereng
post Oct 5 2012, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 5 2012, 09:15 AM)
Fit is not like what you thing can DIY. You can't do anything yourself, but everything got to go through installer. Which is not cheap.
*
Ozak, you are right
FIT cannot DIY because plenty of design and doc need certified by competence engineer.
ISPQ, civil engineer and charge man.
phanghy
post Oct 6 2012, 05:23 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Oct 5 2012, 08:08 AM)

I hope your house SPA still in lawyer processing, make sure the name transfer completed before you release payment.

BTW, what is your system capacity? This will decide your monthly income from PV system?
You can calculated the remaining 'return' from FIT REPPA.
*
This house is fitted with a 4kw pv. You have mentioned earlier that such pv will get approx RM600/month.
Cannot understand ".... calculate remaining 'return' from FIT REPPA". Anyway looks like both of us is looking at december to get our first return.
avereng
post Oct 6 2012, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 6 2012, 05:23 AM)
This house is fitted with a 4kw pv. You have mentioned earlier that such pv will get approx RM600/month.
Cannot understand ".... calculate remaining 'return' from FIT REPPA". Anyway looks like both of us is looking at december to get our first return.
*
I don't know when is your system Commercial Operation Date (COD)? COD is the date your system generation start to have payment. REPPA 21 yrs contract start from COD. The remaining return of your system should be Date of Transfer Ownership till REPPA end.

For example: REPPA COD is 1 June 2012. REPPA end at 31 May 2033 (21 yrs from COD). Transfer Ownership at 1 Sep 2012.
The remaining return period will be from 1 Sep 2012 till 31 May 2033 = 20 yrs and 9 mths = 249 mths
The remaining possible return is 249mth x RM600/mth
phanghy
post Oct 9 2012, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Oct 6 2012, 09:44 AM)
I don't know when is your system Commercial Operation Date (COD)? COD is the date your system generation start to have payment. REPPA 21 yrs contract start from COD. The remaining return of your system should be Date of Transfer Ownership till REPPA end.

For example: REPPA COD is 1 June 2012. REPPA end at 31 May 2033 (21 yrs from COD). Transfer Ownership at 1 Sep 2012.
The remaining return period will be from 1 Sep 2012 till 31 May 2033 = 20 yrs and 9 mths = 249 mths
The remaining possible return is 249mth x RM600/mth
*
Wow biggrin.gif Estimate the COD date for original owner is January 2012. Then assume transfer ownership in December 2012. Does this mean I will receive payment for 20 years X 12 months X RM600=RM144,000 rclxms.gif rclxm9.gif

This of course does not take into consideration the decreasing rate paid by TNB every year, the required change of inverter every xx years, the regular cleaning of the pv cell required to generate optimun return and .......... suddenly the return for the capital of RM40-50K does not sound so good anymore. Anyway we should always look at the pv system more on the green side of it rather purely on return of investment. Anyway I do not think anyone will lose out except they must be prepared to a pay substantial sum initially.

Wish you good return for your installation. As for me, I do not want to think on the "extra" amount I have paid for the pv due to the very much higher price I have paid for the house but rather I would just take that the pv is a "bonus" that comes with the house and the future payment that I will receive as a very small discount that I will get.
avereng
post Oct 10 2012, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 9 2012, 05:33 PM)
This of course does not take into consideration the decreasing rate paid by TNB every year
*
Some corrections for you. The rate paid by TNB is sealed by REPPA for 21 yrs. The rate is CONSTANT for 21 years. That's what make FIT attractive

Cleaning panel... u can DIY with high pressure pump or hire Indonesian to do.

Inverter cost around RM5k for US brand. U can opt to increase warranty to 10yrs with some fees.
weikee
post Oct 10 2012, 08:52 AM

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Rm600 is it guaranteed or just the calculation?
alyem
post Oct 10 2012, 09:57 AM

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Panasonic is having a Forum about Solar today.
http://www.panasonic.com.my/ecoforum/

10 October 2012 (Wednesday)
12:30PM Registrations
1:00PM Lunch
2:00PM – 4:00PM Forum
4:30PM End



Convention Hall 1, Level 3,
Kuala Lumpur Convention Centre (KLCC),
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia


avereng
post Oct 10 2012, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 08:52 AM)
Rm600 is it guaranteed or just the calculation?
*
The buy back price is guaranteed.
The generation is forecast, depends on the weather and how you maintain the system

weikee
post Oct 10 2012, 11:54 AM

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Highly doubt can achieve 600 per month unless is very very big panel.
phanghy
post Oct 10 2012, 12:12 PM

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Attached Image Attached Image [attachmentid=3093235]
QUOTE(avereng @ Oct 10 2012, 08:34 AM)
Some corrections for you. The rate paid by TNB is sealed by REPPA for 21 yrs. The rate is CONSTANT for 21 years. That's what make FIT attractive

Cleaning panel... u can DIY with high pressure pump or hire Indonesian to do.

Inverter cost around RM5k for US brand. U can opt to increase warranty to 10yrs with some fees.
*
I have found FIT rates that decrease with each year from the SEDA website. Does this means
1) The rate paid will decrease with each year or
2) The rate indicated is the rate paid (for 21 years) depending on the year of installation
eg. owner will be paid RM1.23/KWh for 21 years if installed in 2012 and
owner will be paid RM1.0411/KWh for 21 years if installed in 2014
If (2) is the correct answer then anyone who is interested to go ahead to install the BIPV is advised to do it sooner than later!

Sorry. Do not know how to attach picture to show SEDA's FIT rate. Anyway this is the link to another website which has a link to show the feed in tarriff (FIT) in SEDA's website
http://solarpower-mart.com/bipv/feed_in_tariff
weikee
post Oct 10 2012, 12:26 PM

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From the same website:

Easy calculations for system size and cost:

If you know your average kwh/day or know how many kwh/day you would like to produce, a simple calculation will determine system size and cost.

System size in kilowatts (kw) = (kwh/day) / 4 hours (peak sun) x 1.43 (system losses)
Step 1: Divide average kwh/day by number of hours of peak sun, or (kwh/ay) / 4
Step 2: Multiply by 1.43 to account for system losses due to friction, heat, and other inefficiencies.

Example: What size system is needed to produce 20kwh/day?

20kwh/4h = 5kw
5kw x 1.43= 7.15kw
7.15kw = system size to produce 20kwh/day assuming 4 peak sun hours (11am to 3pm).


Making it in reversed, since we mention 4KW panel,
(4KW / 1.43) x 4 hours = 11.2KW, that is about RM 12.6 per day. about RM 380 per month. About RM 91k for 20 years.

This provided good sunshine all year yound, and no equipment faulty.
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post Oct 10 2012, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 10 2012, 12:12 PM)
Attached Image Attached Image [attachmentid=3093235]
I have found FIT rates that decrease with each year from the SEDA website. Does this means
1) The rate paid will decrease with each year or
2) The rate indicated is the rate paid (for 21 years) depending on the year of installation
    eg. owner will be paid RM1.23/KWh for 21 years if installed in 2012 and
          owner will be paid RM1.0411/KWh for 21 years if installed in 2014
If (2) is the correct answer then anyone who is interested to go ahead to install the BIPV is advised to do it sooner than later!

Sorry. Do not know how to attach picture to show SEDA's FIT rate. Anyway this is the link to another website which has a link to show the feed in tarriff (FIT) in SEDA's website
http://solarpower-mart.com/bipv/feed_in_tariff
*
No.2 is correct. If you install in 2012, the rate is rm1.23/kwh. And the contract seal this rate for 21yrs.


ozak
post Oct 10 2012, 12:57 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 12:26 PM)
From the same website:

Easy calculations for system size and cost:

If you know your average kwh/day or know how many kwh/day you would like to produce, a simple calculation will determine system size and cost.

System size in kilowatts (kw) = (kwh/day) / 4 hours (peak sun) x 1.43 (system losses)
Step 1: Divide average kwh/day by number of hours of peak sun, or (kwh/ay) / 4
Step 2: Multiply by 1.43 to account for system losses due to friction, heat, and other inefficiencies.

Example: What size system is needed to produce 20kwh/day?

20kwh/4h = 5kw
5kw x 1.43= 7.15kw
7.15kw = system size to produce 20kwh/day assuming 4 peak sun hours (11am to 3pm).
Making it in reversed, since we mention 4KW panel,
(4KW / 1.43) x 4 hours = 11.2KW, that is about RM 12.6 per day. about RM 380 per month. About RM 91k for 20 years.

This provided good sunshine all year yound, and no equipment faulty.
*
Here the actual figure for a 4.8kw pv install in local here.

Average daily generate is about 15kwh in june. Total a month is 450.39kwh. 450kwh x 1.23 = rm553.5/mth.

The lowest generate is dec.
weikee
post Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM

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How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
avereng
post Oct 10 2012, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 10 2012, 12:37 PM)
No.2 is correct. If you install in 2012, the rate is rm1.23/kwh. And the contract seal this rate for 21yrs.
*
I support. No2 is correct.
that's y need to install quick.


Added on October 10, 2012, 1:29 pm
QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM)
How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
*
4.8kW=4800W
4800W/230W = 20.86
So, it will need 21 x 230W panels

1 panel needs 1.6m2.
21 panel need 1.6 x 21 =33.6m2

If using higher capacity panel, less panel required.






This post has been edited by avereng: Oct 10 2012, 01:29 PM
ozak
post Oct 10 2012, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Oct 10 2012, 01:05 PM)
How much is the 4.8Kw pv complete installation?

Think that will need about 300sqft area
*
Probably can cost you rm75k if rm15k/kw.

For space depend on panel brand and type. Just google some PV panel and calculate the size. Average double storey house should be no problem. provided your roof not crazy shape design.
avereng
post Oct 16 2012, 02:46 PM

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Today The Star
http://thestar.com.my/lifestyle/story.asp?...6&sec=lifefocus

No investment needed to have solar power system
lyksell
post Feb 7 2013, 01:36 PM

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I have compiled some of the readings and questions came to me about this Solar FIT as an investment, feel free to check my blog and maybe your comments and view ... my head is spinning not sure is it really a good investment ....

http://investmaze.blogspot.com/2013/02/sol...rch-part-i.html
ozak
post Feb 8 2013, 11:30 AM

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QUOTE(lyksell @ Feb 7 2013, 01:36 PM)
I have compiled some of the readings and questions came to me about this Solar FIT as an investment, feel free to check my blog and maybe your comments and view ... my head is spinning not sure is it really a good investment ....

http://investmaze.blogspot.com/2013/02/sol...rch-part-i.html
*
Let give the time to proof. No hurry. About few yrs time, you can compile the ppl experince of the return.

It is a richman investment now. Put your money in others investment if you are middle class investor.
lyksell
post Feb 12 2013, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Feb 8 2013, 11:30 AM)
Let give the time to proof. No hurry. About few yrs time, you can compile the ppl experince of the return. 

It is a richman investment now. Put your money in others investment if you are middle class investor.
*
Not sure to agree or not, but true that i don't feel easy on this investment ..... no confident ... and maybe that's why other can be success and i can't, just too many worries ...
ozak
post Feb 12 2013, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(lyksell @ Feb 12 2013, 10:13 PM)
Not sure to agree or not, but true that i don't feel easy on this investment ..... no confident ... and maybe that's why other can be success and i can't, just too many worries ...
*
What other ppl can be success? Looking at local side, we just start this. Do they already have 3-5yrs data for you to check?

There is still many investment out there. What so extract to you this investment. If the return is low?

If you have spare money that you can spend, than go ahead and try.
kamion
post Feb 28 2013, 04:47 PM

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I just called up a company that does this. For a 4kW installation, they quoted RM40k for everything all-in, including application, installation, testing and commissioning.

From application to testing & commissioning takes 3 months, but they had reports that TNB only started paying a few months after commissioning, and there's some problem with TNB reading the Feed-In meters.

The company tells me that some of their customers have found the system to be outputting higher than the company's initial estimate for them, though their oldest installation is only 1 year-old.

Using Bosch panels rated at 250W peak each (1660 x 990mm) with SMA inverter. For a 4kW install, 16 panels required. Area of 26.3 sq metre or 283 sq ft.

If we take a monthly income of RM460, that's RM5,520 a year. The initial RM40k can be recovered in just about 7.25 years. (How'd I get the RM460/month? Bro ozak gave RM550/month from a 4.8kW installation, so I just factored it down to 4kW).

I see a house a few streets away with a solar install, I will walk over and have a chat with the house owner one day to see what's his experience so far.

Forgot to mention: maintenance is RM1,600 for 2 years - half yearly cleaning and inspection, which I think is quite high!

This post has been edited by kamion: Feb 28 2013, 05:06 PM
darvolver
post Mar 1 2013, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(kamion @ Feb 28 2013, 04:47 PM)
I just called up a company that does this. For a 4kW installation, they quoted RM40k for everything all-in, including application, installation, testing and commissioning.

From application to testing & commissioning takes 3 months, but they had reports that TNB only started paying a few months after commissioning, and there's some problem with TNB reading the Feed-In meters.

The company tells me that some of their customers have found the system to be outputting higher than the company's initial estimate for them, though their oldest installation is only 1 year-old.

Using Bosch panels rated at 250W peak each (1660 x 990mm) with SMA inverter. For a 4kW install, 16 panels required. Area of 26.3 sq metre or 283 sq ft.

If we take a monthly income of RM460, that's RM5,520 a year. The initial RM40k can be recovered in just about 7.25 years. (How'd I get the RM460/month? Bro ozak gave RM550/month from a 4.8kW installation, so I just factored it down to 4kW).

I see a house a few streets away with a solar install, I will walk over and have a chat with the house owner one day to see what's his experience so far.

Forgot to mention: maintenance is RM1,600 for 2 years - half yearly cleaning and inspection, which I think is quite high!
*
Been calculating this for a while. can PM me your solar company contact? quite a good price he gave you.
amberglow
post Mar 2 2013, 09:10 PM

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Folks,

Let me pour a cold bucket of water over your enthusiasm for Solar PV for Malaysia Climate.

It is a myth that Malaysia enjoys lots of bright sunshine - we definitely do not!

Why? Malaysia is surrounded by water and is extremely humid on any given day you will be hard pressed to see a clear blue sky. We do not get clear blue skies like Germany, USA, and Australia. The heavy cloud cover filters out a fair amount of light needed for solar panels to run at top efficiency. Most rated Solar Panels are factory tested with simulated lighting which assumes no cloud cover. In Malaysia the peak sunlight is from 12pm to 2pm; which gives you the highest efficiency assuming it is not a cloudy day or raining - and the bright sunny days we get are perhaps 30 days the most out of 365 days. The rest of the time it is cloudy with heavy cloud cover. Believe me, do your own research. Everyday go look up in the sky, and note how bright and how hot it is and how much cloud cover you see.

Thereby you will need to adjust your power generation calculations where you will have only 2 hours of full sunlight (90% efficiency), and 4 hours of 50% efficiency. You need to factor in the inverter energy loss as well; so at the end of the day your 5kwatt solar pv footprint may only generate less than 1kwatt.

Draw your own conclusions, given the very expensive solar PV installations the return on investment is not way too long. Have you ever wondered why Malaysia being one of the main solar PV manufacturing countries do not have a domestic market. Well, the ROI does not make sense. Solar PV generation is not a viable investment.

If you really do decide to proceed with Solar PV, please remember the panels need to be cleaned frequently to remove soot and dust and bird droppings. Can you imagine yourself that you will climb up the roof every week to clean the panels or willing to pay someone to climb up the roof to clean the panels.

Next. you have to consider if you are considering a grid-tied system or a battery system.

Finally, FiT is only for a "limited" number of participants. So not every Tom, d*** and Harry is allowed to install Solar PV and sell back to TNB.

Cheers.

This post has been edited by amberglow: Mar 2 2013, 09:14 PM
ozak
post Mar 10 2013, 01:06 PM

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This wednesday pass through Bagan Datoh, Selangor and saw a solar farm. Probably just setup. Look quite big and maybe produce MW?

user posted image

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weikee
post Mar 10 2013, 01:33 PM

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Should take back some of the panel back home smile.gif
ozak
post Mar 11 2013, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Mar 10 2013, 01:33 PM)
Should take back some of the panel back home smile.gif
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That is my purpose of taking the picture. brows.gif look like high security. 2 gate and fence separate by buffer zone. Just like those important place.
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post Mar 11 2013, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(phanghy @ Oct 4 2012, 01:52 AM)
I have just bought a subsale house fitted with pv. Does anyone know if the original tnb agreement can be transferred to new owner?
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Yes, u can transfer the ownership. you may refer www.seda.gov.my
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post Mar 27 2013, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Mar 10 2013, 01:06 PM)
This wednesday pass through Bagan Datoh, Selangor and saw a solar farm. Probably just setup. Look quite big and maybe produce MW?
*
eh where is this location... i try to find it but could notice it.. bagan datoh is in perak btw...
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post Mar 27 2013, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(amberglow @ Mar 2 2013, 09:10 PM)
Folks,

Let me pour a cold bucket of water over your enthusiasm for Solar PV for Malaysia Climate.

It is a myth that Malaysia enjoys lots of bright sunshine - we definitely do not!

Why?  Malaysia is surrounded by water and is extremely humid on any given day you will be hard pressed to see a clear blue sky.  We do not get clear blue skies like Germany, USA, and Australia.  The heavy cloud cover filters out a fair amount of light needed for solar panels to run at top efficiency. Most rated Solar Panels are factory tested with simulated lighting which assumes no cloud cover.  In Malaysia the peak sunlight is from 12pm to 2pm; which gives you the highest efficiency assuming it is not a cloudy day or raining - and the bright sunny days we get are perhaps 30 days the most out of 365 days.  The rest of the time it is cloudy with heavy cloud cover.  Believe me, do your own research. Everyday go look up in the sky, and note how bright and how hot it is and how much cloud cover you see.

Thereby you will need to adjust your power generation calculations where you will have only 2 hours of full sunlight (90% efficiency), and 4 hours of 50% efficiency.  You need to factor in the inverter energy loss as well; so at the end of the day your 5kwatt solar pv footprint may only generate less than 1kwatt.

Draw your own conclusions, given the very expensive solar PV installations the return on investment is not way too long.  Have you ever wondered why Malaysia being one of the main solar PV manufacturing countries do not have a domestic market.  Well, the ROI does not make sense.  Solar PV generation is not a viable investment.

If you really do decide to proceed with Solar PV, please remember the panels need to be cleaned frequently to remove soot and dust and bird droppings. Can you imagine yourself that you will climb up the roof every week to clean the panels or willing to pay someone to climb up the roof to clean the panels.

Next. you have to consider if you are considering a grid-tied system or a battery system. 

Finally, FiT is only for a "limited" number of participants. So not every Tom, d*** and Harry is allowed to install Solar PV and sell back to TNB.

Cheers.
*
A lot of misinformation you have here in term of solar power generation efficiency, but honestly i would say malaysia have a good climate and environment for solar power generation...

billyboy
post Mar 28 2013, 08:58 AM

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I have been doing a survey and I think the following is worth commenting;

- it's profitable to home owner because SEDA / TNB buys at RM1+ per kwh from the house owner. In comparison, we buy electricity from TNB at 22sen+ per kwh. A lot of subsidy.

- installers in Malaysia use between 3.0 to 3.4 hours of (effective) sunlight for their calculation. It depends on the lumens / brightness of the sun. There is a website for a solar installation in malacca which publishes monthly data, and it fits the figures I described above.

- overall, it's profitable if;
+ you get good guarantee and maintenance and warranty. Make sure you buy a "Toyota" quality for "perodua" price and not the other way around. That is a skill, and important especially when the big solar manufacturers are going bust. So what if you have the best warranty but the manufacturer go bust.
+ some basic maintenance to maintain output. Regular cleaning etc.
+ cheap debt will boost the return on investment significantly.

Good luck !
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post Mar 28 2013, 09:14 AM

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I have also looked at degradation (drop in output per annum) in some detail. Most of the empirical testing is under ideal condition; cool and bright eg dessert.

Malaysia is not ideal. Bright but humid. Electrical equipment hates humidity. I have not come across any empirical study of degradation on energy output over say 10 to 20 years in a Malaysia like environment.

My fear is that a lot of the performance guarantee (10% drop within 10 years) may be optimistic. Any one can assist ?
ozak
post Mar 28 2013, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(azsace @ Mar 27 2013, 06:28 PM)
eh where is this location... i try to find it but could notice it.. bagan datoh is in perak btw...
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It is along the main road. At the right side if you come from selangor. Not difficult to spot.
ozak
post Mar 28 2013, 09:24 AM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Mar 28 2013, 08:58 AM)
I have been doing a survey and I think the following is worth commenting;

- it's profitable to home owner because SEDA / TNB buys at RM1+ per kwh from the house owner. In comparison, we buy electricity from TNB at 22sen+ per kwh.  A lot of subsidy.

- installers in Malaysia use between 3.0 to 3.4 hours of (effective) sunlight for their calculation. It depends on the lumens / brightness of the sun.  There is a website for a solar installation in malacca which publishes monthly data, and it fits the figures I described above.

- overall, it's profitable if;
+ you get good guarantee and maintenance and warranty.  Make sure you buy a "Toyota" quality for "perodua" price and not the other way around.  That is a skill, and important especially when the big solar manufacturers are going bust.  So what if you have the best warranty but the manufacturer go bust.
+ some basic maintenance to maintain output. Regular cleaning etc.
+ cheap debt will boost the return on investment significantly.

Good luck !
*
Try to read this whole thread from beginning. And you know is it worth to invest.

You didn't do the calculation properly.
ozak
post Mar 28 2013, 09:30 AM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Mar 28 2013, 09:14 AM)
I have also looked at degradation (drop in output per annum) in some detail.  Most of the empirical testing is under ideal condition; cool and bright eg dessert.

Malaysia is not ideal. Bright but humid. Electrical equipment hates humidity.  I have not come across any empirical study of degradation on energy output over say 10 to 20 years in a Malaysia like environment.

My fear is that a lot of the performance guarantee (10% drop within 10 years) may be optimistic.  Any one can assist ?
*
Solar panel need clear sky and cool weather to get the max efficiency. Malaysia is cloudy and hot which will reduce the panel efficiency.

But it is still better than some north country which have less sun hour perday.

Solar panel is still pretty new and there is no record of how long it can last. Those pioneer is pretty close to 20yrs. All those guarantee is just paper guarantee and no real life test.
billyboy
post Mar 28 2013, 01:28 PM

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I did say its profitable which means its worth investing ....

Just need to be careful....
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post Mar 28 2013, 04:11 PM

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i read somewhere:
the F-I-T was RM1.74 starting Dec 2011 for 21 years with a 8% degression

meaning the money we sell the electricity every year will be reducing rite?

am i rite?
billyboy
post Mar 28 2013, 05:49 PM

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not correct.

- once you sign, the rate is fixed for 21 years.
- those who sign later, will have lower rates. But once signed, its fixed for 21 years.
- the degression has already kicked in. check SEDA website for update. definitely lower than the figure you mentioned.
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post Mar 29 2013, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Mar 28 2013, 01:28 PM)
I did say its profitable which means its worth investing ....

Just need to be careful....
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http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2661898
billyboy
post Mar 31 2013, 02:43 PM

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Does anyone know who are the more reputable installers... Need a quotation for my house....
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 09:21 AM

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FYI, my PV system installed in Dec 2012, up to now, performance in Jan & Feb is slightly below expectation (3.25kWh/kW) and Mac is much better (+/-4.2kWh/kW)

Cloud and rain are part of our climate. We have to live with them. My system best performance day is 5.2kWh/kW which is a day without rain and little cloud shading. Definitely a hot day
ozak
post Apr 1 2013, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 09:21 AM)
FYI, my PV system installed in Dec 2012, up to now, performance in Jan & Feb is slightly below expectation (3.25kWh/kW) and Mac is much better (+/-4.2kWh/kW)

Cloud and rain are part of our climate. We have to live with them. My system best performance day is 5.2kWh/kW which is a day without rain and little cloud shading. Definitely a hot day
*
This yrs estimate to be rainy yrs. Yield would be much more lower.
weikee
post Apr 1 2013, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 09:21 AM)
FYI, my PV system installed in Dec 2012, up to now, performance in Jan & Feb is slightly below expectation (3.25kWh/kW) and Mac is much better (+/-4.2kWh/kW)

Cloud and rain are part of our climate. We have to live with them. My system best performance day is 5.2kWh/kW which is a day without rain and little cloud shading. Definitely a hot day
*
What is your PV rated to generate? <At max>
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Apr 1 2013, 10:11 AM)
What is your PV rated to generate? <At max>
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My system is 7.7kW using 2 units of 3.6kW inverters.
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 1 2013, 09:50 AM)
This yrs estimate to be rainy yrs. Yield would be much more lower.
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Agreed, this year is expected to be wet.
I found another factor which is important. The distance between earth and sun. In Malaysia, Mac and Sept are the period which the closest distance and June and Dec are the further distance.

In Mac, even rain started in 3pm, the generation still can easily reached above 3.5kWh/kW. Where in Dec, this will sure below 3kWh/kW. The radiation from sun is very critical and even can offset the rain effect.
ozak
post Apr 1 2013, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 10:58 AM)
My system is 7.7kW using 2 units of 3.6kW inverters.
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Is it the output is normal for 7.7KW system? Look quite low the output from the 7.7kw system.
weikee
post Apr 1 2013, 11:29 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 10:58 AM)
My system is 7.7kW using 2 units of 3.6kW inverters.
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Look like the yield is about 55-65% on average. Look like you still have to pay about RM 50+- for electric bill after contra off.
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post Apr 1 2013, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 11:05 AM)
Agreed, this year is expected to be wet.
I found another factor which is important. The distance between earth and sun. In Malaysia, Mac and Sept are the period which the closest distance and June and Dec are the further distance.

In Mac, even rain started in 3pm, the generation still can easily reached above 3.5kWh/kW. Where in Dec, this will sure below 3kWh/kW. The radiation from sun is very critical and even can offset the rain effect.
*
From what i have learn, it is not distance between earth and sun. But rather the pole rotation half yrs sun position between north and south. Our sun shine on us is changing between north and south for half yrs. If you hang your cloth under the sun, observe the east shadow and light in the morning.

All the installer recommend to install face to south the panel. Cause later half the yrs, the sun would be at the south. And raining season is mostly at the later yrs. If face north, the panel will receive less sun + monsoon = very low output.

This is apply to the solar heater too.
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Apr 1 2013, 11:29 AM)
Look like the yield is about 55-65% on average. Look like you still have to pay about RM 50+- for electric bill after contra off.
*
What do you mean by 55-65%?

My system is 7.7kW capacity. With estimation 3.5kWh/kW, my system supposed to generate 27kWh. In Mac, most day generation is exceeding 27kWh

Electric bill? Feed in tariff has nothing to do with electric bill. We get payment from generation regardless what we consume.

avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 1 2013, 11:23 AM)
Is it the output is normal for 7.7KW system? Look quite low the output from the 7.7kw system.
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All depends on how much generation you expected, the expectation range is from 3-3.8kWh/kW. This will take as annual average value.
My system only running for 3 months. For me, if the generation is higher than 3.5kWh/kW is consider fine. Generation higher than 4.0kWh/kW is good.

In Malaysia, generation beyond 6kWh/kW is almost impossible. The good place will be northern peninsular, which near to Thai border. There has less rain and can generate more electricity. A Penang system always better than mine.
SUSMrUbikeledek
post Apr 1 2013, 01:43 PM

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How to install on the flat?
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 1 2013, 11:37 AM)
From what i have learn, it is not distance between earth and sun. But rather the pole rotation half yrs sun position between north and south. Our sun shine on us is changing between north and south for half yrs. If you hang your cloth under the sun, observe the east shadow and light in the morning.

All the installer recommend to install face to south the panel. Cause later half the yrs, the sun would be at the south. And raining season is mostly at the later yrs. If face north, the panel will receive less sun + monsoon = very low output.

This is apply to the solar heater too.
*
You are correct but not complete. Yours + mine will be complete answer.
Earth is orbiting by oval shape path. So, distance between earth and sun is not constant.

Reason for south facing panel is because we are in northern hemisphere (even just 3 degree only). My panels are facing south and north. The south facing panels always generate more than north facing. In Dec, the different is around 15%. In Mac, the different reduce to 5-10%.
weikee
post Apr 1 2013, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 01:35 PM)
What do you mean by 55-65%?

My system is 7.7kW capacity. With estimation 3.5kWh/kW, my system supposed to generate 27kWh. In Mac, most day generation is exceeding 27kWh

Electric bill? Feed in tariff has nothing to do with electric bill. We get payment from generation regardless what we consume.
*
I misread your data, though it was 7.7Kwh. You saying 7.7KW panel. What is the average KWh you can generate for this panel (in typical malaysia sun light?)
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Apr 1 2013, 02:30 PM)
I misread your data, though it was 7.7Kwh. You saying 7.7KW panel. What is the average KWh you can generate for this panel (in typical malaysia sun light?)
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Because just 3 mths operation, IMHO, 7.7x3.5=27kWh should be the average
avereng
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QUOTE(MrUbikeledek @ Apr 1 2013, 01:43 PM)
How to install on the flat?
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I think you need to ask installer.

From what i know, flat or other high rise building are not possible to install because you don't own the roof.

ozak
post Apr 1 2013, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 01:40 PM)
All depends on how much generation you expected, the expectation range is from 3-3.8kWh/kW. This will take as annual average value.
My system only running for 3 months. For me, if the generation is higher than 3.5kWh/kW is consider fine. Generation higher than 4.0kWh/kW is good.

In Malaysia, generation beyond 6kWh/kW is almost impossible. The good place will be northern peninsular, which near to Thai border. There has less rain and can generate more electricity. A Penang system always better than mine.
*
A 7.7kw sytem generate 3.5kw is about 46% output. That is not even half of the 7.7kw. The malaysia weather problem or the panel quality? Do you have a similiar panel and system to compare?
avereng
post Apr 1 2013, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 1 2013, 02:56 PM)
A 7.7kw sytem generate 3.5kw is about 46% output. That is not even half of the 7.7kw. The malaysia weather problem or the panel quality? Do you have a similiar panel and system to compare?
*
Now I know what you mean.

3.5kWh/kW is the good sunlight hours which is the performance of PV system regardless the capacity. Some people pronounced as 3.5 good sunlight hours. 3.5kWh/kW is not same as 3.5kWh

My system has capacity of 7.7kW. The generation based on 3.5kWh/kW will be 7.7kW x 3.5kWh/kW = 27kWh.

My installer compared mine to other 20++ installations. They said my system performance is above average but not the best.
The best performance was 5.2kWh/kW or 40kWh on 1st Mac. In whole Mac, 1000kWh generated from my system.
Kiding
post Apr 2 2013, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 1 2013, 11:37 AM)
From what i have learn, it is not distance between earth and sun. But rather the pole rotation half yrs sun position between north and south. Our sun shine on us is changing between north and south for half yrs. If you hang your cloth under the sun, observe the east shadow and light in the morning.

All the installer recommend to install face to south the panel. Cause later half the yrs, the sun would be at the south. And raining season is mostly at the later yrs. If face north, the panel will receive less sun + monsoon = very low output.

This is apply to the solar heater too.
*
Sun shine directly on the equator on 21 March and 21 September every year, like Kuching which is very close to equator, Solar panel will get max output on these two days. Klang Valley is 3 degree north, the solar output difference is neglectable compare to Kuching, the solar panel facing direction has more impact to the solar energy generation, some of the solar panel installation has rotor to rotate the solar panel to always facing the sun directly to generate max power.
ozak
post Apr 3 2013, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 03:21 PM)
Now I know what you mean.

3.5kWh/kW is the good sunlight hours which is the performance of PV system regardless the capacity. Some people pronounced as 3.5 good sunlight hours. 3.5kWh/kW is not same as 3.5kWh

My system has capacity of 7.7kW. The generation based on 3.5kWh/kW will be 7.7kW x 3.5kWh/kW = 27kWh.

My installer compared mine to other 20++ installations. They said my system performance is above average but not the best.
The best performance was 5.2kWh/kW or 40kWh on 1st Mac. In whole Mac, 1000kWh generated from my system.
*
A 7.7kw system should generate 7.7kw/h in theory. If base on your total a day generate 27kwh and 5hr of sunlight, average your system can produce 27/5 = 5.4kw/h. That is 70% efficeincy. It is average panel efficiency. While some claim can go as faf as 80%. Or 6.1kw/h.

But if base on your 3.5kwh and total generate perday is 27kwh, it mean 27/3.5 = 7.7hr sunlight?

But if base on your said 3.5 good sunlight hr and 3.5kwh/kw max generate. That is 3.5hr x 3.5kw = 12.25kwh for whole day. That is not mre than 50% of your system efficiency.

Probably another thing I suspect is the half of your panel is not perform max efficency. Since half is facing north and half is facing south.
ozak
post Apr 3 2013, 02:17 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Apr 2 2013, 05:26 PM)
Sun shine directly on the equator on 21 March and 21 September every year, like Kuching which is very close to equator, Solar panel will get max output on these two days. Klang Valley is 3 degree north, the solar output difference is neglectable compare to Kuching, the solar panel facing direction has more impact to the solar energy generation, some of the solar panel installation has rotor to rotate the solar panel to always facing the sun directly to generate max power.
*
Yes. That is half yrs sun facing south and half yrs facing north. My house front is facing north. While my house right side is facing east. So I always see the sun half yrs is slighty infront my rooftop and later half yrs is slighty behind my rooftop.
avereng
post Apr 5 2013, 02:52 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Apr 3 2013, 02:12 PM)
A 7.7kw system should generate 7.7kw/h in theory. If base on your total a day generate 27kwh and 5hr of sunlight, average your system can produce 27/5 = 5.4kw/h. That is 70% efficeincy. It is average panel efficiency. While some claim can go as faf as 80%. Or 6.1kw/h.

But if base on your 3.5kwh and total generate perday is 27kwh, it mean 27/3.5 = 7.7hr sunlight?

But if base on your said 3.5 good sunlight hr and 3.5kwh/kw max generate. That is 3.5hr x 3.5kw = 12.25kwh for whole day. That is not mre than 50% of your system efficiency.

Probably another thing I suspect is the half of your panel is not perform max efficency. Since half is facing north and half is facing south.
*
The capacity rating for PV solar panel is based on STC which is laboratory condition. In real life condition, the STC condition will not be easy to achieve.
Any where in the world, there will not be a place to have ideal condition for PV system to work 100% efficiency for whole year long.
Further more, another factor to decide the generation is inverter, which has loss in efficiency.

Therefore, PV installer always looking for kWh/kW as benchmark to gauge PV system regardless on the system capacity.
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post May 26 2013, 11:59 AM

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hello stop by here and read comment
ozak
post May 29 2013, 12:18 AM

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Last week have some free time and since this few day super hot sun. So decide to do some research on my solar panel. See what it can output.

Have been keep in my store room for over a year now. Lazy to setup on the roof. And yet decide On Grid or OFF Grid.

user posted image

So take 2pcs out to try. When fully roll out, it damn long. The size is 5486mm x 394mm x 4mm.

user posted image

When empty run without hook to anything, the voltage read at 45vdc. Not bad with some shading on the panel. The actual spec for this panel is 111watt, 33vdc. (24vdc) Confirm the panel is working good.

user posted image

Than hook up with a big cable (4mm) in parallel connection. This will give out 33vdc, 200watt.

user posted image

This is a grid tie inverter which convert the dc voltage to 240vac. Max it can output is 500watt. This china made inverter is not that efficiency.

user posted image

After switch on the inverter and connect to 3pin socket, it running without any problem. First it will detect the home voltage and hz. Than adjust accordingly. There is a led light running up/down to show the panel is outputting some current. If the panel output low, the run led will slow down. When no output during night, the inverter will shutdown. It can be run 24/7 without off it.

user posted image

Sorry for that damn watt meter. The LCD screen got some problem with some line missing. Use not more than a year than become like that. China made. Can't complain much. At max sunlight, I figure out it probably run at 160watt ++. The pattern of the watt output is gradually up from the morning. Than go down gradually in the evening.

user posted image

From the testing, 1 day probably can't get even 1kwh from 111wx2 panel. That is about 72% output. It is not that accurate from this testing as

1) many shadow around when place on the floor. Rooftop probably can get better yield.
2) since it on the ground, the sun angle is not optimize. The panel can't get enough sunlight.
3) can't read the broken LCD watt meter.

Probably will conduct another testing after get a new watt meter. :)

weikee
post May 29 2013, 08:28 AM

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Nice, maybe you can get another 4 set, and get a 2kw system. Can power on 2hp a/c in the afternoon. Maybe put a backup battery smile.gif

If you plan to do on grid, you need license installer right?
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post May 29 2013, 10:35 AM

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Good work, ozak. How much is all these things?
ozak
post May 29 2013, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 29 2013, 08:28 AM)
Nice, maybe you can get another 4 set, and get a 2kw system. Can power on 2hp a/c in the afternoon. Maybe put a backup battery smile.gif

If you plan to do on grid, you need license installer right?
*
Not cheap lah. Don't even think of powerup an aircon. The output is not stable. once crowd over your panel, your aircon will down. 1 battery can cost you rm800+. The best is supply back to TNB. That is the cheapest setup.

You don't need license. And it is not illegal also. The different is, those proper setup and sell back can get higher rate. While this individual setup will only get you a normal rate 0.218. Probably consider as subsidy your bill.
ozak
post May 29 2013, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(VStore.my @ May 29 2013, 10:35 AM)
Good work, ozak. How much is all these things?
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2 panel and a inverter around rm2500.
weikee
post May 29 2013, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 29 2013, 11:32 AM)
Not cheap lah. Don't even think of powerup an aircon. The output is not stable. once crowd over your panel, your aircon will down. 1 battery can cost you rm800+. The best is supply back to TNB. That is the cheapest setup.

You don't need license. And it is not illegal also. The different is, those proper setup and sell back can get higher rate. While this individual setup will only get you a normal rate 0.218. Probably consider as subsidy your bill.
*
Do you need a special KW Meter? or the current one can do reverse?

This post has been edited by weikee: May 29 2013, 02:03 PM
ozak
post May 29 2013, 10:48 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 29 2013, 02:02 PM)
Do you need a special KW Meter? or the current one can do reverse?
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No need special meter. The current meter will do. Either it will slow down or rev if output more than input.
weikee
post May 29 2013, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 29 2013, 10:48 PM)
No need special meter. The current meter will do. Either it will slow down or rev if output more than input.
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Hmm, if that is the case I may want to DIY one smile.gif Look like my Initial investment need to be around RM 4k.
ozak
post May 30 2013, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 29 2013, 10:55 PM)
Hmm, if that is the case I may want to DIY one smile.gif Look like my Initial investment need to be around RM 4k.
*
It is easy DIY. A panel, wire, inverter and a watt meter. Hook it up and plug into any 3pin socket.

Good is, you can gradually increase the panel if you like. Or charge a battery if you don't like to give to TNB. Or when you have finally get a system big enough, get a provider to apply for you a license 1 that give you a higher rate return.

For panel, if you add more later, make sure the voltage don't different much with the old panel. Do the research what is the common voltage panel have in the market.

Don't get those crap china panel which perform low output. Waste your rooftop space.
weikee
post May 30 2013, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 30 2013, 12:21 AM)
It is easy DIY. A panel, wire, inverter and a watt meter. Hook it up and plug into any 3pin socket.

Good is, you can gradually increase the panel if you like. Or charge a battery if you don't like to give to TNB. Or when you have finally get a system big enough, get a provider to apply for you a license 1 that give you a higher rate return.

For panel, if you add more later, make sure the voltage don't different much with the old panel.  Do the research what is the common voltage panel have in the market.

Don't get those crap china panel which perform low output. Waste your rooftop space.
*
Where did you buy the panel? You using Sharp panel?
Kiding
post May 30 2013, 10:40 AM

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Ozak, is your solar panel thin film type? thin film panel has lower efficiency which only 11%. for indiviual who want to use solar power, feed in to the power grid still the best option, lower cost and better efficiency.
ozak
post May 30 2013, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 30 2013, 12:35 AM)
Where did you buy the panel? You using Sharp panel?
*
From US. Get it during sale and using another cheaper shipping way. The brand is unisolar. As you can see it come in roll flexible. Advantage is, it lighter compare fix panel type. Reduce the shipping cost.

But this company bankrupt liau. sad.gif maybe still got some provider stock this kind of panel.

Since the panel cost getting lower, maybe can get more watt/$ now.
weikee
post May 30 2013, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 30 2013, 11:17 AM)
From US. Get it during sale and using another cheaper shipping way. The brand is unisolar. As you can see it come in roll flexible. Advantage is, it lighter compare fix panel type. Reduce the shipping cost.

But this company bankrupt liau.  sad.gif  maybe still got some provider stock this kind of panel.

Since the panel cost getting lower, maybe can get more watt/$ now.
*
Solar things not sure need custom clearance. Maybe need to source in Malaysia.
ozak
post May 30 2013, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ May 30 2013, 10:40 AM)
Ozak, is your solar panel thin film type? thin film panel has lower efficiency which only 11%. for indiviual who want to use solar power, feed in to the power grid still the best option, lower cost and better efficiency.
*
It is a thin film type. Not really less efficiency.

The best working condition for solar panel is clear sky with no crowd. And cool weather. This 2 condition is not favor here. We are crowdy and hot weather here.

Normal panel/poly crystal will reduce efficiency once get hot. And when shadow cover even less than half the panel, the voltage will drop.

While thin film, is not effect much by hot weather. And shadow will not cause the voltage drop. Thin film panel actually is more suitable here.

But disadvantage for thin film is, it need more space per watt compare normal panel. That's why you see the panel is freaking long.

As the poly panel getting lower cost now and need less space per watt, more people are using poly panel to offset the loss. You buy more panel to cover back the loss of the efficiency.
ozak
post May 30 2013, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 30 2013, 11:28 AM)
Solar things not sure need custom clearance. Maybe need to source in Malaysia.
*
Since here getting more company sale panel, better try local first. I think price is getting cheap here. The problem is are they import good panel or china b grade panel. Will they just sale 1 or 2 panel to you.

I've brought 2x from US. Include some others item too. So far no tax. Using special way. brows.gif
Kiding
post May 30 2013, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 30 2013, 03:04 PM)
It is a thin film type. Not really less efficiency.

The best working condition for solar panel is clear sky with no crowd. And cool weather. This 2 condition is not favor here. We are crowdy and hot weather here.

Normal panel/poly crystal will reduce efficiency once get hot. And when shadow cover even less than half the panel, the voltage will drop.

While thin film, is not effect much by hot weather. And shadow will not cause the voltage drop. Thin film panel actually is more suitable here.

But disadvantage for thin film is, it need more space per watt compare normal panel. That's why you see the panel is freaking long.

As the poly panel getting lower cost now and need less space per watt, more people are using poly panel to offset the loss. You buy more panel to cover back the loss of the efficiency.
*
Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher efficiency (20%) than thin film (10%), that is why the same area of solar panel, Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher output, thin film has edge on the high temperature which its efficiency not drop a lot in hot weather.

One of my clients (First Solar which has plant in Kulim) told me the thin film not suitable for household, because it is less efficient so require bigger space.
ozak
post May 31 2013, 08:55 AM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ May 30 2013, 10:43 PM)
Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher efficiency (20%) than thin film (10%), that is why the same area of solar panel, Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher output, thin film has edge on the high temperature which its efficiency not drop a lot in hot weather.

One of my clients (First Solar which has plant in Kulim) told me the thin film not suitable for household, because it is less efficient so require bigger space.
*
If you talking about the space, yes. It require more space perwatt.

But if I will buy another batch of panel, I will looking for thin film multicrystalline panel again. If my budget have lah. It is the highest efficeincy panel in the world. Do you believe that?
ozak
post May 31 2013, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 30 2013, 11:28 AM)
Solar things not sure need custom clearance. Maybe need to source in Malaysia.
*
Maybe you can check it out with Panasonic here. Would they sell their panel here. The panel probably maufacturing in Kulim. Or you bring a lorry to there at night. brows.gif

Panasonic have the most efficeincy panel in the world. It is a thin film multicrytaline type panel. Call Panasonic HIT solar panel.
weikee
post May 31 2013, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 31 2013, 10:08 AM)
Maybe you can check it out with Panasonic here. Would they sell their panel here. The panel probably maufacturing in Kulim. Or you bring a lorry to there at night. brows.gif

Panasonic have the most efficeincy panel in the world. It is a thin film multicrytaline type panel. Call Panasonic HIT solar panel.
*
Don't have the budget to do large scale yet. Maybe buy small one for "flood light" before I install the glass awning.
ozak
post May 31 2013, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ May 31 2013, 10:11 AM)
Don't have the budget to do large scale yet. Maybe buy small one for "flood light" before I install the glass awning.
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No need large scale lah. Just buy 1pcs. But don't no they will serve you or not. sad.gif
weikee
post May 31 2013, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 31 2013, 10:16 AM)
No need large scale lah. Just buy 1pcs. But don't no they will serve you or not. sad.gif
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They won't la.
Kiding
post May 31 2013, 09:30 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ May 31 2013, 08:55 AM)
If you talking about the space, yes. It require more space perwatt.

But if I will buy another batch of panel, I will looking for thin film multicrystalline panel again. If my budget have lah. It is the highest efficeincy panel in the world. Do you believe that?
*
Multi-junction solar cell has highest efficiency, used to be for space station, satellite.

user posted image
90Boyz
post Jun 6 2013, 09:37 PM

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nice info sharing .. thanks.
MatXSelamat
post Jun 6 2013, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ May 30 2013, 10:43 PM)
Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher efficiency (20%) than thin film (10%), that is why the same area of solar panel, Poly-crystalline silicon panel has higher output, thin film has edge on the high temperature which its efficiency not drop a lot in hot weather.

One of my clients (First Solar which has plant in Kulim) told me the thin film not suitable for household, because it is less efficient so require bigger space.
*
They produce silicon type, of course they will tell you theirs is the best, regardless of true or false. Unless they otak masuk air lah.

First Solar only produce panel component in Kulim plant, encapsulation is done else way. And they are slowly dying too. In fact the whole solar panel industry is going through rocky downhill. Good or bad for consumer, ini susah nak jawab
quintesson
post Jun 7 2013, 07:28 PM

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everyone are selling on Green concept. shouldn't it be Green products be more affordable than the conventional type to encourage all of us to use but it seems like the other way round. so how could we be Green?
i also heard from a friend there's a company which can arrange from loan financing up till the tnb contract to install this type of solar power. it cost around 50k so the 1st 7 years no profit only enough to cover loan from the selling of electricity to tnb. subsequent 14years will be our nett profit. how's that sound? anyone here signed up for such scheme? some opinion please?

This post has been edited by quintesson: Jun 7 2013, 07:29 PM
Yes4G111
post Jun 10 2013, 10:43 PM

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Is it high efficiency panel will perform better than low efficiency panel??
efficiency rate is calculate base on panel size.
If compare these two panel:
250w panel- 17% efficiency (bigger size)
250w panel- 22% efficiency (smaller compare to 17% efficiency)

Output almost the same.
Kiding
post Jun 10 2013, 11:34 PM

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QUOTE(Yes4G111 @ Jun 10 2013, 10:43 PM)
Is it high efficiency panel will perform better than low efficiency panel??
efficiency rate is calculate base on panel size.
If compare these two panel:
250w panel- 17% efficiency (bigger size)
250w panel- 22% efficiency (smaller compare to 17% efficiency)

Output almost the same.
*
You have already answered your question smile.gif

High efficiency solar panel == smaller size panel produce same output as bigger size panel == same area of panel produce higher output
ozak
post Jun 10 2013, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Jun 10 2013, 11:34 PM)
You have already answered your question smile.gif

High efficiency solar panel == smaller size panel produce same output as bigger size panel == same area of panel produce higher output
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Dont forget the hot temperature and shadow.
Yes4G111
post Jun 11 2013, 12:42 AM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Jun 10 2013, 11:34 PM)
You have already answered your question smile.gif

High efficiency solar panel == smaller size panel produce same output as bigger size panel == same area of panel produce higher output
*
Yes, if you want maximize your system size.
But if you only plan to install a 4kWp system, using a high efficiency panel or low efficiency of panel is not so important already. smile.gif

Thin film is bigger size panel(low efficiency), but for those looking for quality product customer it should be first choice. hehe..
Correct? Ozak?
billyboy
post Jun 11 2013, 07:23 AM

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Alliance Bank just announced up to 90% financing for solar panels.

Check Star pg 2 today.
ozak
post Jun 11 2013, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(Yes4G111 @ Jun 11 2013, 12:42 AM)
Yes, if you want maximize your system size.
But if you only plan to install a 4kWp system, using a high efficiency panel or low efficiency of panel is not so important already. smile.gif

Thin film is bigger size panel(low efficiency), but for those looking for quality product customer it should be first choice. hehe..
Correct? Ozak?
*
How to said, in term of technical, thin film yield more output than poly. Put it into actual situation like sun, hot weather and crowd shadow, thin film have more output. If you put poly and thin film with same watt to test, thin film will yield more output than the poly panel. Another is, thin film panel will still give out output even 1 of it cell is damage. But not poly panel.

But in economy term, poly panel is cheaper. So you can put more panel to output same as thin film. Since poly panel require smaller size. It somekind of offset.

So in real world, lower cost is a winner. That is why you see more poly panel than the thin film panel.

If you don't mind the cost, than look at the Panasonic HIT panel. It is a thin film hybrid panel which is the most efficiency panel now.

http://panasonic.net/energy/solar/hit/
ozak
post Jun 11 2013, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Jun 11 2013, 07:23 AM)
Alliance Bank just announced up to 90% financing for solar panels.

Check Star pg 2 today.
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What is the interest rate?
guchemk
post Jun 15 2013, 12:16 PM

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Not attractive at all, it is BLR +1%(former Alliance customer) or BLR +2%(New comer)
weikee
post Jun 15 2013, 03:39 PM

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http://www.mmail.com.my/story/loans-home-solar-panels-58077

billyboy
post Jun 15 2013, 09:26 PM

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Offer period now at blr + 0. They absorb stamp duty.

Term loan 90% for 10 years at blr + 0
The other 10% on credit card - zero financing for 24 months


100% financing.....

They claim after interest cost, you'd still get money in your pocket every month.....
billyboy
post Jun 15 2013, 09:27 PM

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Is there anybody else offering financing for solar panels ?
ah_suknat
post Jun 15 2013, 10:09 PM

whoooooooooooooop
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guys, I live in a farm without electricity, got gen set but very noisy not gonna turn that on at night as my worker have to sleep.

I am interested to get a solar panel, just to power my laptop and charge my phone really...

would it be adviseable to buy those solar panel from china and ship here and install it myself? those ready made one...

how much watt I need to buy??

thanks in advance..
ozak
post Jun 15 2013, 11:30 PM

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Today passby this electrical shop and saw some interesting solar panel and gadget display outside. So go and take a look. Locate at sitiawan town, perak. Sell a lot of china made gadget like led light, solar stuff, electrical applicance, switch, light etc. Their main is those house electrical mcb, elcb, wire, trunking etc. Quite interesting.

Price reasonable and not expensive. Example the front shop display solar panel 100w 12v cost rm700+. It is a market price. They do have 20w, 10w etc panel. But not sure what is the grade of the panel. Or a set of spotlight with battery and panel cost rm290+. All china mari. The bos also very friendly and intruduce everything he have.

user posted image
ozak
post Jun 15 2013, 11:33 PM

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QUOTE(guchemk @ Jun 15 2013, 12:16 PM)
Not attractive at all, it is BLR +1%(former Alliance customer) or BLR +2%(New comer)
*
Not really a good rate. The rate is about 86% of the borrowing money. sweat.gif
ozak
post Jun 15 2013, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 15 2013, 10:09 PM)
guys, I live in a farm without electricity, got gen set but very noisy not gonna turn that on at night as my worker have to sleep.

I am interested to get a solar panel, just to power my laptop and charge my phone really...

would it be adviseable to buy those solar panel from china and ship here and install it myself? those ready made one...

how much watt I need to buy??

thanks in advance..
*
Not sure where is your area. You can get this stuff locally. You need to get a panel, charger, battery and inverter. Not difficult to setup. But at least get the shop guy to teach you how to hook it up.

At least 100watt or more.
cwhong
post Jun 16 2013, 02:47 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 15 2013, 11:46 PM)
Not sure where is your area. You can get this stuff locally. You need to get a panel, charger, battery and inverter. Not difficult to setup. But at least get the shop guy to teach you how to hook it up.

At least 100watt or more.
*
Out of curiosity how much does it costs? Agak agak also can lah bro... notworthy.gif
ozak
post Jun 16 2013, 08:56 AM

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QUOTE(cwhong @ Jun 16 2013, 02:47 AM)
Out of curiosity how much does it costs? Agak agak also can lah bro... notworthy.gif
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Maybe around rm2k.
ah_suknat
post Jun 16 2013, 01:19 PM

whoooooooooooooop
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QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 15 2013, 03:46 PM)
Not sure where is your area. You can get this stuff locally. You need to get a panel, charger, battery and inverter. Not difficult to setup. But at least get the shop guy to teach you how to hook it up.

At least 100watt or more.
*
usually the panel can upgrade like adding more panel right?
is having 2 50w panels and 1 100w panel same effect?
weikee
post Jun 16 2013, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 16 2013, 01:19 PM)
usually the panel can upgrade like adding more panel right?
is having 2 50w panels and 1 100w panel same effect?
*
Yes and no.

If u need storing and use at night, you need to have bigger battery, higher inverter capacity.

If you only want to use during day time your extra invest maybe bigger inverter.
ozak
post Jun 16 2013, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 16 2013, 01:19 PM)
usually the panel can upgrade like adding more panel right?
is having 2 50w panels and 1 100w panel same effect?
*
Yes. Basically same effect. But 2 50w have more choice connection. Not explain here to simplified explanation.

You can add more panel later. But with some rule.

1) there is a limit the charger can handle. If your charger said max 10A, than your panel add up cannot over it. You can overcome this by getting another charger.
2) the panel voltage must be same. Or cannot run out certain percentage. Cannot simple add any panel.
ah_suknat
post Jun 16 2013, 09:26 PM

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ok...I guessed I will just ask for straight advice then blowing my mind away from figures :S

basically i will just need to power my laptop for atleast 6 hours a day...plus charging phone

for heavy duty stuff I have my 6kw diesel genset...

my laptop power rating is 40w, so what rating of solar panel, what rating of charger, what rating of inverter and what rating of battery should I get? please advise slight bigger spec as I might change to higher spec laptop in the future hence higher power rating?

thanks a lot smile.gif
weikee
post Jun 16 2013, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 16 2013, 09:26 PM)
ok...I guessed I will just ask for straight advice then blowing my mind away from figures :S

basically i will just need to power my laptop for atleast 6 hours a day...plus charging phone

for heavy duty stuff I have my 6kw diesel genset...

my laptop power rating is 40w, so what rating of solar panel, what rating of charger, what rating of inverter and what rating of battery should I get? please advise slight bigger spec as I might change to higher spec laptop in the future hence higher power rating?

thanks a lot smile.gif
*
Why not tap into your current gen set? Is cheaper. If you don't indent to switch on your gen set every night, get a smaller and quieter gen set or perhaps a 2,000 VA UPS.
ozak
post Jun 16 2013, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(ah_suknat @ Jun 16 2013, 09:26 PM)
ok...I guessed I will just ask for straight advice then blowing my mind away from figures :S

basically i will just need to power my laptop for atleast 6 hours a day...plus charging phone

for heavy duty stuff I have my 6kw diesel genset...

my laptop power rating is 40w, so what rating of solar panel, what rating of charger, what rating of inverter and what rating of battery should I get? please advise slight bigger spec as I might change to higher spec laptop in the future hence higher power rating?

thanks a lot smile.gif
*
Why not just place your genset far away and some noise reduction wall. That you can run at night. You need light, fan or aircon at night and sleep?

Another cheaper way I can think is, get a battery charger, battery and inverter. Charge the battery with genset in the morning. Run the battery at night. Continue the cycle everyday. Probably cost you rm1.5k.

If you still need a solar, your running gadget probably need 400whr to run for 6hr. That need 2, 100ahr 12v battery in parallel. The battery have 2 day reserve and 50% discharge.

You need about 104w charge panel. Probably 2pcs of 80w panel would be safer. A 14A charger controller. 300watt inverter if you need to powerup more gadget.
Angela tan
post Jul 4 2013, 08:37 PM

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Survey Questionnaire about Building Integrated Photovoltaic System‏‏‏

Dear Sir/ Madam

I am currently a student who is studying Bachelor of Science (HONS) Quantity Surveying in Universiti Tunku Abdul Rahman (UTAR), Setapak Campus. For your information, I am doing my final year project which topic is about “A STUDY ON DESIGN OF THE BUILDING INTEGRATED PHOTOVOLTAIC (BIPV) SYSTEM IN MALAYSIA”. I am gathering the information for it from Solar companies and hoping that Sir/Madam can help me to fill the questionnaire.

In this final year project, I am focused on:
i. To investigate the design of Building Integrated Photovoltaic (BIPV) system in Malaysia.
ii. To compare the new and old generation of Photovoltaic technologies in Malaysia.
iii. To explain the procedure to apply a Photovoltaic System into a building.
iv. To examine whether the non-technical barriers of Building Integrated Photovoltaic (BIPV) Systems is widely adopt in Malaysia.

I would be very grateful if you could access the attached questionnaire mail URL and help me to fill in the questionnaire for a while. Your help is very useful and important for my project and it will be treated with strict confidence.

Please click the link of online survey and help me to fill: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/12BuIb36t4O...Iqh51Q/viewform

Thank you very much and I am looking forward for your reply as soon as possible. Your assistance and cooperation is highly appreciated.

Regards,
TAN CHING TING
Student,
Universiti Tunku Abdul Rahman, Setapak.
PitzaHuat
post Jul 5 2013, 08:26 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jun 16 2013, 11:59 PM)
Why not just place your genset far away and some noise reduction wall. That you can run at night. You need light, fan or aircon at night and sleep?

Another cheaper way I can think is, get a battery charger, battery and inverter. Charge the battery with genset in the morning. Run the battery at night. Continue the cycle everyday.  Probably  cost you rm1.5k.

If you still need a solar, your running gadget probably need 400whr to run for 6hr. That need 2, 100ahr 12v battery in parallel. The battery have 2 day reserve and 50% discharge.

You need about 104w charge panel. Probably 2pcs of 80w panel would be safer.  A 14A charger controller. 300watt inverter if you need to powerup more gadget.
*
I think ozak n weikee recommendation to recharge using genset is more cost effective. Unlike others, u already have generator so no need heavy invest. But if reliability is a problem then get solar panel. To diversify power source. All in all solar set with 100watt, charge controller, inverter and battery about rm2k.

My house lighting is powered by solar with direct dc LED downlight. Why? Just for hobby. :-)

ozak
post Jul 5 2013, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 5 2013, 08:26 AM)
I think ozak n weikee recommendation to recharge using genset is more cost effective. Unlike others, u already have generator so no need heavy invest. But if reliability is a problem then get solar panel. To diversify power source. All in all solar set with 100watt, charge controller, inverter and battery about rm2k.

My house lighting is powered by solar with direct dc LED downlight. Why? Just for hobby. :-)
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Well, you can consider ON Grid and sign contract with TNB now. If you have budget.
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post Jul 6 2013, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 5 2013, 11:03 AM)
Well, you can consider ON Grid and sign contract with TNB now. If you have budget.
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Signing with tnb required minimum of 4kw solar panels with minimum investment of rm40k.-50k. Ok i understand with the loan with zero blr. But with the money and return investment i better put into buying property. More gooding :-)
billyboy
post Jul 8 2013, 01:25 PM

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Don't forget Alliance Bank now offers 100% financing and they claim still get some money in the pocket every month (unless it rains everyday the whole month) after loan servicing !

QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 6 2013, 09:37 AM)
Signing with tnb required minimum of 4kw solar panels with minimum investment of rm40k.-50k. Ok i understand with the loan with zero blr. But with the money and return investment i better put into buying property. More gooding :-)
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dude35
post Jul 17 2013, 02:27 PM

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Hi all,

I just stumbled on this blog. It is interesting to read through all the discussion. I am a former employee of a local module manufacturing company. Now working in an EPC company in renewables.

Hope to get more insights on how people perceive our local PV industry.
weikee
post Jul 17 2013, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(billyboy @ Jul 8 2013, 01:25 PM)
Don't forget Alliance Bank now offers 100% financing and they claim still get some money in the pocket every month (unless it rains everyday the whole month) after loan servicing !
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I am skeptic.. If its such a good deal everyone just get loan and let the sun do the investment for us. Maybe for people with few houses can have good return until no need to work?
dude35
post Jul 18 2013, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 17 2013, 05:03 PM)
I am skeptic.. If its such a good deal everyone just get loan and let the sun do the investment for us. Maybe for people with few houses can have good return until no need to work?
*
If you get the BLR +0 then it will be tempting. Last time I ask only people who have their Privilege banking aka got 300k saving with them can get it. Else better off find better rates. Some people are looking at overdraft facility, ppl who work for GLC can get better rates for personal loan etc.
ozak
post Jul 18 2013, 09:48 AM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Jul 18 2013, 09:27 AM)
If you get the BLR +0 then it will be tempting. Last time I ask only people who have their Privilege banking aka got 300k saving with them can get it. Else better off find better rates. Some people are looking at overdraft facility, ppl who work for GLC can get better rates for personal loan etc.
*
You need to comeout some figure before can see it really tempting. It is a long year loan.
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post Jul 19 2013, 02:13 AM

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I got to say, this is the most interesting thread i've come across in LYN...many good & useful info..i actually went thru all 22pages!! and got me really interested..

For me, the most important thing is knowing i'm contributing in reducing co2 emission, going green and just doing my part..secondly, TNB bill is my most hated bill..i really like to offset the electricity charges so in a way, using free or highly subsidized energy..

After going thru the threads and info, it seem the initial investment is roughly RM50k+ for a 4kw capacity PV system..and expect something like 3.5kw efficiency for FIT

Alliance bank has got this solar loan, with repayment tenure upto 10yrs, from my calc (consider blr+0 interest), RM60k loan will need repayment of something close to RM700..current FIT rate for 2013 & 2014 is around RM1/kwh

my question is, in order to generate enough kwh of FIT to just cover the loan repayment amount, what is the capacity of PV i need? realistically..(after factor in reduce efficiency, low yield from sunlight etc)

Or another way of asking, how much is the initial cost (which would dictate the loan amount) i need in order to sell say RM800-RM1k worth of electricity to TNB?

If i can get the initial cost financed, and the generated RE income can cover the loan repayment, i dont mind to install it..after 10yrs repayment i get to enjoy free electricity!!

btw, if the system is financed, can the taxable income from FIT be written off? Since i'm servicing bank loan & interest..and can show 0 profit since income is used to repY bank loan


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post Jul 19 2013, 10:46 AM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 02:13 AM)
I got to say, this is the most interesting thread i've come across in LYN...many good & useful info..i actually went thru all 22pages!! and got me really interested..

For me, the most important thing is knowing i'm contributing in reducing co2 emission, going green and just doing my part..secondly, TNB bill is my most hated bill..i really like to offset the electricity charges so in a way, using free or highly subsidized energy..

After going thru the threads and info, it seem the initial investment is roughly RM50k+ for a 4kw capacity PV system..and expect something like 3.5kw efficiency for FIT

Alliance bank has got this solar loan, with repayment tenure upto 10yrs, from my calc (consider blr+0 interest), RM60k loan will need repayment of something close to RM700..current FIT rate for 2013 & 2014 is around RM1/kwh

my question is, in order to generate enough kwh of FIT to just cover the loan repayment amount, what is the capacity of PV i need? realistically..(after factor in reduce efficiency, low yield from sunlight etc)

Or another way of asking, how much is the initial cost (which would dictate the loan amount) i need in order to sell say RM800-RM1k worth of electricity to TNB?

If i can get the initial cost financed, and the generated RE income can cover the loan repayment, i dont mind to install it..after 10yrs repayment i get to enjoy free electricity!!

btw, if the system is financed, can the taxable income from FIT be written off? Since i'm servicing bank loan & interest..and can show 0 profit since income is used to repY bank loan
*
Remember, solar energy output in Malaysia is not consistent due to cloudy weather, just like this week in Klang Valley, most of the time is cloudy, so that is your risk.
weikee
post Jul 19 2013, 10:51 AM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 02:13 AM)
I got to say, this is the most interesting thread i've come across in LYN...many good & useful info..i actually went thru all 22pages!! and got me really interested..

For me, the most important thing is knowing i'm contributing in reducing co2 emission, going green and just doing my part..secondly, TNB bill is my most hated bill..i really like to offset the electricity charges so in a way, using free or highly subsidized energy..

After going thru the threads and info, it seem the initial investment is roughly RM50k+ for a 4kw capacity PV system..and expect something like 3.5kw efficiency for FIT

Alliance bank has got this solar loan, with repayment tenure upto 10yrs, from my calc (consider blr+0 interest), RM60k loan will need repayment of something close to RM700..current FIT rate for 2013 & 2014 is around RM1/kwh

my question is, in order to generate enough kwh of FIT to just cover the loan repayment amount, what is the capacity of PV i need? realistically..(after factor in reduce efficiency, low yield from sunlight etc)

Or another way of asking, how much is the initial cost (which would dictate the loan amount) i need in order to sell say RM800-RM1k worth of electricity to TNB?

If i can get the initial cost financed, and the generated RE income can cover the loan repayment, i dont mind to install it..after 10yrs repayment i get to enjoy free electricity!!

btw, if the system is financed, can the taxable income from FIT be written off? Since i'm servicing bank loan & interest..and can show 0 profit since income is used to repY bank loan
*
If can generage nett income, many people will ride on it.
ozak
post Jul 19 2013, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 02:13 AM)
I got to say, this is the most interesting thread i've come across in LYN...many good & useful info..i actually went thru all 22pages!! and got me really interested..

For me, the most important thing is knowing i'm contributing in reducing co2 emission, going green and just doing my part..secondly, TNB bill is my most hated bill..i really like to offset the electricity charges so in a way, using free or highly subsidized energy..

After going thru the threads and info, it seem the initial investment is roughly RM50k+ for a 4kw capacity PV system..and expect something like 3.5kw efficiency for FIT

Alliance bank has got this solar loan, with repayment tenure upto 10yrs, from my calc (consider blr+0 interest), RM60k loan will need repayment of something close to RM700..current FIT rate for 2013 & 2014 is around RM1/kwh

my question is, in order to generate enough kwh of FIT to just cover the loan repayment amount, what is the capacity of PV i need? realistically..(after factor in reduce efficiency, low yield from sunlight etc)

Or another way of asking, how much is the initial cost (which would dictate the loan amount) i need in order to sell say RM800-RM1k worth of electricity to TNB?

If i can get the initial cost financed, and the generated RE income can cover the loan repayment, i dont mind to install it..after 10yrs repayment i get to enjoy free electricity!!

btw, if the system is financed, can the taxable income from FIT be written off? Since i'm servicing bank loan & interest..and can show 0 profit since income is used to repY bank loan
*
In reality, the calculation is not that favor. But I m lazy to calculate out. tongue.gif

Anyway, you can try it out and see does it profit or not. Still need somebody to give us some feedback. smile.gif that is you. brows.gif
wa1k3r
post Jul 19 2013, 12:51 PM

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actually, i don't mind too much even if not profitable, as long as at the end of the day, my electricity consumption is subsidized by FiT generated...

although this few days or weeks weather is very cloudy, i'm rather confident bout the whole thing...seeing so many solar farm projects here and there, even bank offer loan for PV installations...it got to show that this system can generate nett profit, however small and long ROI

found this table on ERS website:
Attached Image

surely they are being optimistic..if take the 6kwp calculations, can make nett RM155 per month rclxms.gif which is not bad considering no initial cost required..

but in real world, maybe cant generate profit, which i don't mind also, as long as can cover the loan repayment...

but the quota is always in demand is it? is it very hard to apply for quota? or are they snapped up by these system provider?


ozak
post Jul 19 2013, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 12:51 PM)
actually, i don't mind too much even if not profitable, as long as at the end of the day, my electricity consumption is subsidized by FiT generated...

although this few days or weeks weather is very cloudy, i'm rather confident bout the whole thing...seeing so many solar farm projects here and there, even bank offer loan for PV installations...it got to show that this system can generate nett profit, however small and long ROI

found this table on ERS website:
Attached Image

surely they are being optimistic..if take the 6kwp calculations, can make nett RM155 per month  rclxms.gif which is not bad considering no initial cost required..

but in real world, maybe cant generate profit, which i don't mind also, as long as can cover the loan repayment...

but the quota is always in demand is it? is it very hard to apply for quota? or are they snapped up by these system provider?
*
I think you still have to folk out some cash to topup the loan for 10yrs. The kwh system is not enough to cover the loan.

Do not get those sale guys or provider table to check. Of course the figure sure look nice. Can you believe it? Do you have your own figure?

The solar FIT is just start last yrs. How many people can tell a whole yrs average income, kwh generate and etc? We need real story.

They have quota and need to tender. TNB each yrs will comeout some MW quota for residential, comercial and farm. Each yrs have several time open for tender. But we normally never follow up. What you can do is, check with the provider. Tell them you need how many kwh and intend to install. They will alert you once the tender open and how to apply. The whole process till installation you can't do it yourself.
PitzaHuat
post Jul 19 2013, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 12:51 PM)
actually, i don't mind too much even if not profitable, as long as at the end of the day, my electricity consumption is subsidized by FiT generated...

although this few days or weeks weather is very cloudy, i'm rather confident bout the whole thing...seeing so many solar farm projects here and there, even bank offer loan for PV installations...it got to show that this system can generate nett profit, however small and long ROI

found this table on ERS website:
Attached Image

surely they are being optimistic..if take the 6kwp calculations, can make nett RM155 per month  rclxms.gif which is not bad considering no initial cost required..

but in real world, maybe cant generate profit, which i don't mind also, as long as can cover the loan repayment...

but the quota is always in demand is it? is it very hard to apply for quota? or are they snapped up by these system provider?
*
Bro walker, hold your horse :-)

Lets assume you using 4kwh system, a month about rm450-rm500. By end of product life in 25 years, you will get RM142K. Then deduct Loan interest and 100% asset depreciation RM65k balance is RM77K. Cost to service within 25 years is around RM10K-RM15K including inspection, cleaning and changin of electronic components. Left RM62K.

Other factors not included are degration of solar efficiency, moving of solar system due to roofing maintenance or move out, inflation that affect parts and labour costs and also risk in 25 years no break/stolen/fire/mothernature. Also many ppl thought that with solar system, the home will be 24 hours with electricity even TNB down. That is misconception. Its because wihout battery banks, the electricity genersted feed directly to TNB.

So the question go back to square, do you want to be energy independant, environment friendly or profit making?
wa1k3r
post Jul 19 2013, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 19 2013, 01:17 PM)
I think you still have to folk out some cash to topup the loan for 10yrs. The kwh system is not enough to cover the loan.

Do not get those sale guys or provider table to check. Of course the figure sure look nice. Can you believe it? Do you have your own figure?

The solar FIT is just start last yrs. How many people can tell a whole yrs average income, kwh generate and etc? We need real story.

They have quota and need to tender. TNB each yrs will comeout some MW quota for residential, comercial and farm. Each yrs have several time open for tender. But we normally never follow up. What you can do is, check with the provider. Tell them you need how many kwh and intend to install. They will alert you once the tender open and how to apply. The whole process till installation you can't do it yourself.
*
okie...clear about the quota part now...so its not like i get to install when i want...must wait for the right moment...but planning for it should start early right? to be ready when tender is open...i'll keep that in mind!


QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 19 2013, 01:45 PM)
Bro walker, hold your horse :-)

Lets assume you using 4kwh system, a month about rm450-rm500. By end of product life in 25 years, you will get RM142K. Then deduct Loan interest and 100% asset depreciation RM65k balance is RM77K. Cost to service within 25 years is around RM10K-RM15K including inspection, cleaning and changin of electronic components. Left RM62K.

Other factors not included are degration of solar efficiency, moving of solar system due to roofing maintenance or move out, inflation that affect parts and labour costs and also risk in 25 years no break/stolen/fire/mothernature. Also many ppl thought that with solar system, the home will be 24 hours with electricity even TNB down. That is misconception. Its because wihout battery banks, the electricity genersted feed directly to TNB.

So the question go back to square, do you want to be energy independant, environment friendly or profit making?
*
honestly, i'm not that worried about making profit...it just never really cross my mind i can make profit from it...i'd say i'm more towards wanting to be energy dependent and doing my part for the environment as you put it...

on the $$ part, i look at it quite simply (not a complicated guy blush.gif ) i only have to come out with 10% of the initial cost, rest is thru loan, and as long as i don't have to worry too much about repayment, then i'm quite happy already...even if i have to top up a little bit every month for the first 10yrs, i'm ok, coz i know after 10yrs, with additional top up (fraction of initial cost to replace inverter etc) i get to enjoy literally free electricity...

surely, if one thinks of making profit from this 'investment' then there's really no point going down this road...you're better off with buy-then-sell properties, shares, etc...

after the initial installation cost, the rest is done for us by the power of the sun and the PV arrays...as long as the sun stays up & shinning, i can expect generations of electricity, however little...


ozak
post Jul 19 2013, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 03:34 PM)
okie...clear about the quota part now...so its not like i get to install when i want...must wait for the right moment...but planning for it should start early right? to be ready when tender is open...i'll keep that in mind!
honestly, i'm not that worried about making profit...it just never really cross my mind i can make profit from it...i'd say i'm more towards wanting to be energy dependent and doing my part for the environment as you put it...
Once you tender in and get approval, you have half years to think want to install or not and get finance. Can take your time.

First thing got to do is get the provider some quotation and help you to tender. Fill up the form also not easy yor. rclxub.gif
PitzaHuat
post Jul 20 2013, 09:56 AM

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QUOTE(wa1k3r @ Jul 19 2013, 03:34 PM)
okie...clear about the quota part now...so its not like i get to install when i want...must wait for the right moment...but planning for it should start early right? to be ready when tender is open...i'll keep that in mind!
honestly, i'm not that worried about making profit...it just never really cross my mind i can make profit from it...i'd say i'm more towards wanting to be energy dependent and doing my part for the environment as you put it...

on the $$ part, i look at it quite simply (not a complicated guy  blush.gif ) i only have to come out with 10% of the initial cost, rest is thru loan, and as long as i don't have to worry too much about repayment, then i'm quite happy already...even if i have to top up a little bit every month for the first 10yrs, i'm ok, coz i know after 10yrs, with additional top up (fraction of initial cost to replace inverter etc) i get to enjoy literally free electricity...

surely, if one thinks of making profit from this 'investment' then there's really no point going down this road...you're better off with buy-then-sell properties, shares, etc...

after the initial installation cost, the rest is done for us by the power of the sun and the PV arrays...as long as the sun stays up & shinning, i can expect generations of electricity, however little...
*
Just realize i have calculated for 25 years. TNB only pay up to 21 years so return is RM119k. So you pocket RM39k in 21 years.

Average monthly TNB subsidize about RM150.00 for your electricity bill. brows.gif
weikee
post Jul 20 2013, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 20 2013, 09:56 AM)
Just realize i have calculated for 25 years. TNB only pay up to 21 years so return is RM119k. So you pocket RM39k in 21 years.

Average monthly TNB subsidize about RM150.00 for your electricity bill. brows.gif
*
Is it guarantee? or how do they calculate?

If you read back few pages a forumer have it install, and he give some few month data.
Kiding
post Jul 20 2013, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 20 2013, 10:03 AM)
Is it guarantee? or how do they calculate?

If you read back few pages a forumer have it install, and he give some few month data.
*
4KW system with 70K cost, if you get loan for 63K, and paid 6.6% (BLR rate) interest yearly, the total pay up in 10 years will be 63,000 + 23,227 (interest) = 86,227, and assuming maintenance per year is 700, total maintenance over 21 years is 14,700

assuming you can get 4KW x 3 Hours a day (worst case scenario), which is 12KWH/day x 1.1316 = RM 13.58 per day = RM407 per month

Over 21 years, you can get RM102,564 from TNB,

So profit you make over 21 years is 102,564 - 86,227 -7,000 - 14,700 = -5,363 (Rugi !!!!, of course this is worst case scenario)

So I'd say if you get loan from bank, your PV is working for bank, not you. the FiT is only for people with cash in hand!!!
weikee
post Jul 20 2013, 12:24 PM

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Have not calculate income is taxable. Some say taxable, some say non. This the house owner need to findout.

Also have to factor in the efficiency drop.. Malaysia after Jul is consider cloudy and rainy season.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 20 2013, 12:25 PM
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post Jul 20 2013, 02:35 PM

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A 4kw system should be closer to rm44k? What panels brands are you assuming ?
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post Jul 20 2013, 09:20 PM

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QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 19 2013, 01:45 PM)
Bro walker, hold your horse :-)

Lets assume you using 4kwh system, a month about rm450-rm500.
just to add, the rates will lower 8% every year..it's called degression rate, so what you get now in $$ and few years time is not the same even if monthly the weather give you the same kwh.
weikee
post Jul 20 2013, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Jul 20 2013, 09:20 PM)
just to add, the rates will lower 8% every year..it's called degression rate, so what you get now in $$ and few years time is not the same even if monthly the weather give you the same kwh.
*
I think is for new owner apply for FiT. Not auto reduce for signed contract.
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post Jul 20 2013, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 20 2013, 10:13 PM)
I think is for new owner apply for FiT. Not auto reduce for signed contract.
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oh..OIC..every year reduce but once lock-in contract for 21years then the price stays till 21st year. ok. found the Q&A

QUOTE
What is a ‘degression’? What does it mean and why is there a need for one?


Tariff degression refers to the annual reduction of renewable energy tariffs. The rate of reduction depends on  maturity of the technology and the existing cost reduction potential. Tariff degression applies to all technologies and will only affect a developer every time he/she applies for the FiT

For example, a home owner (A) installs a solar PV system in year 1 and signs an agreement with TNB with an FiT rate of RM1.75 per kWh. Home owner (A) will continue to receive this rate throughout his/her agreement duration of 21 yrs. A year after home owner (A) installs the system, his/her neighbour, (B) decides to install a PV system in his/her home too. By year 2 the FiT rate has now reduced by 8% to RM1.61 per kWh. Therefore, home owner (B) will now have a 21-year contract with TNB selling their PV electricity at RM1.61 per kWh. This form of degression rewards the early movers of RE in the country and also promotes cost reduction of RE technology.
can we choose our own panels if we get cheaper source? or need to buy approved panel at certain controlled prices?

This post has been edited by ar188: Jul 20 2013, 10:25 PM
ar188
post Jul 20 2013, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE
Fong also announced that SEDA Malaysia has received a directive from the Minister of Energy, Green Technology and Water that from January 1st 2014 to December 31st 2017, the degression rate for solar PV for individuals will be reduced to 0%. Currently, the degression rate for solar PV for individuals is set at 8%.

This means the FiT rates for solar PV for individuals will remain the same for the duration. The ministry anticipates that with greater public participation in the Solar Home Rooftop Programme, the public will be more willing to contribute to the Renewable Energy Fund, from which the FiT is drawn.


wah individual rate will be same until 2017..
PitzaHuat
post Jul 21 2013, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 20 2013, 10:03 AM)
Is it guarantee? or how do they calculate?

If you read back few pages a forumer have it install, and he give some few month data.
*
Its gurantee in term of per kw you locked with TNB. but how much u can generate is up to your system setup and weather. Also do note that with full sun light for 4kw you still cant get the rated energy. Most around 80-90% of rated energy generation. So check with the company u going to hire what is the gurantee effecient the system setup.

QUOTE(Kiding @ Jul 20 2013, 11:57 AM)
4KW system with 70K cost, if you get loan for 63K, and paid 6.6% (BLR rate) interest yearly, the total pay up in 10 years will be 63,000 + 23,227 (interest) =  86,227, and assuming maintenance per year is 700, total maintenance over 21 years is 14,700

assuming you can get 4KW x 3 Hours a day (worst case scenario), which is 12KWH/day x 1.1316 = RM 13.58 per day = RM407 per month

Over 21 years, you can get RM102,564 from TNB,

So profit you make over 21 years is 102,564 - 86,227 -7,000 - 14,700 = -5,363 (Rugi !!!!, of course this is worst case scenario)

So I'd say if you get loan from bank, your PV is working for bank, not you. the FiT is only for people with cash in hand!!!
*
Bro kiding, ur calculation is worst case senario and the panel doesnt cost that much le. Max rm50k for 4kw system. U still making profit just that taking very long period.

Malaysia average sunlight is more than 3 hours.
Kiding
post Jul 21 2013, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(PitzaHuat @ Jul 21 2013, 09:45 AM)
Its gurantee in term of per kw you locked with TNB. but how much u can generate is up to your system setup and weather. Also do note that with full sun light for 4kw you still cant get the rated energy. Most around 80-90% of rated energy generation. So check with the company u going to hire what is the gurantee effecient the system setup.
Bro kiding, ur calculation is worst case senario and the panel doesnt cost that much le. Max rm50k for 4kw system. U still making profit just that taking very long period.

Malaysia average sunlight is more than 3 hours.
*
Recalculate again ...

Assuming 4KW suystem is 50K, 10 years loan (10% down payment) with BLR 6.6% is 45000 + 16591(interest) = RM 61591, and assuming maintenance per year is 700, total maintenance over 21 years is 14,700

assuming you can get 4KW x 3 Hours a day (worst case scenario), which is 12KWH/day x 1.1316 = RM 13.58 per day = RM407 per month

Over 21 years, you can get RM102,564 from TNB,

So profit you make over 21 years is 102,564 - 61,591 - 5000 (10% down payment) - 14,700 = 21,273 (now looks not bad, even in worst case scenario, of course the PV system must last for 21 years)

RM 21,273 profit turn out to be RM83 per month for 21 years, if the household electricity bill is less than RM83, basically you can free electricity.
weikee
post Jul 21 2013, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Apr 1 2013, 03:21 PM)
Now I know what you mean.

3.5kWh/kW is the good sunlight hours which is the performance of PV system regardless the capacity. Some people pronounced as 3.5 good sunlight hours. 3.5kWh/kW is not same as 3.5kWh

My system has capacity of 7.7kW. The generation based on 3.5kWh/kW will be 7.7kW x 3.5kWh/kW = 27kWh.

My installer compared mine to other 20++ installations. They said my system performance is above average but not the best.
The best performance was 5.2kWh/kW or 40kWh on 1st Mac. In whole Mac, 1000kWh generated from my system.
*
Here is avereng real life example data. We can use his to calculate if the actual return happen. avereng use 7.7kw capacity solar panel.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 21 2013, 05:32 PM
ozak
post Jul 21 2013, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 21 2013, 05:32 PM)
Here is avereng real life example data. We can use his to calculate if the actual return happen. avereng use 7.7kw capacity solar panel.
*
His calculation is confusing. rclxub.gif What does this mean --> 3.5kWh/kw ?
andrewsh
post Jul 21 2013, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 21 2013, 07:27 PM)
His calculation is confusing. rclxub.gif  What does this mean --> 3.5kWh/kw ?
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3.5kWh/kw means for every kw of solar panel, you will get 3.5kWh of energy produced in a day.
Hiha90
post Jul 21 2013, 08:10 PM

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http://seda.gov.my/. the latest rate can be found here
ozak
post Jul 21 2013, 08:12 PM

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QUOTE(andrewsh @ Jul 21 2013, 08:01 PM)
3.5kWh/kw means for every kw of solar panel, you will get 3.5kWh of energy produced in a day.
*
Than it should be 3.5kwh/kwp? But is it accurate?

He have 7.7kw panel and base on 3.5hr sunlight, able to generate 27kwh ? That is 100% efficiency?
andrewsh
post Jul 21 2013, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Jul 21 2013, 08:12 PM)
Than it should be 3.5kwh/kwp? But is it accurate?

He have 7.7kw panel and base on 3.5hr sunlight, able to generate 27kwh ? That is 100% efficiency?
*
You are right, it should be 3.5kwh/kwp, I missed the 'p'. No system operates 100% efficiency. The 3.5hr already consider the system loses. In our country we normally get more than 3.5hr of sunlight but due to higher temperature and system losses, cloud, rain, on average we will get around 3.5kwh/kwp for our panel.
ozak
post Jul 21 2013, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Jul 21 2013, 01:25 PM)
Recalculate again ...

Assuming 4KW suystem is 50K, 10 years loan (10% down payment) with BLR 6.6% is 45000 + 16591(interest) = RM 61591, and assuming maintenance per year is 700, total maintenance over 21 years is 14,700

assuming you can get 4KW x 3 Hours a day (worst case scenario), which is 12KWH/day x 1.1316 = RM 13.58 per day = RM407 per month

Over 21 years, you can get RM102,564 from TNB,

So profit you make over 21 years is 102,564 - 61,591 - 5000 (10% down payment) - 14,700 = 21,273 (now looks not bad, even in worst case scenario, of course the PV system must last for 21 years)

RM 21,273 profit turn out to be RM83 per month for 21 years, if the household electricity bill is less than RM83, basically you can free electricity.
*
That is quite low profit. Don't forget the failure part replacement for 21yrs. Specially the inverter which have a lifetime of 6-8yrs. That can cost you over rm5k for an inverter. That can setback you another 1-2yrs. A RM83/mth to subsidy your electricity is probably 70-80% of your usage.

If breakdown from your calculation and repayment to the bank in real life, RM61,591 / 120month = RM513/mth payback to bank in 10yrs.

Each month you generate RM407 --> RM513-RM407 = RM106/mth additional top up to pay the bank in 10yrs. sweat.gif Before you can earn back.

The income earning is tax able. How much additional lost from that? sweat.gif
avereng
post Jul 22 2013, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(andrewsh @ Jul 21 2013, 08:30 PM)
You are right, it should be 3.5kwh/kwp, I missed the 'p'.  No system operates 100% efficiency.  The 3.5hr already consider the system loses.  In our country we normally get more than 3.5hr of sunlight but due to higher temperature and system losses, cloud, rain, on average we will get around 3.5kwh/kwp for our panel.
*
FYI, from 7 mths operation experience, 3.5kWh/kWp is conservative assumption. During good month, 3.8-4.0kWh/kWp is possible
weikee
post Jul 22 2013, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Jul 22 2013, 09:40 AM)
FYI, from 7 mths operation experience, 3.5kWh/kWp is conservative assumption. During good month, 3.8-4.0kWh/kWp is possible
*
What is the lowest month your panel generate?
dude35
post Jul 22 2013, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(Kiding @ Jul 20 2013, 11:57 AM)
4KW system with 70K cost, if you get loan for 63K, and paid 6.6% (BLR rate) interest yearly, the total pay up in 10 years will be 63,000 + 23,227 (interest) =  86,227, and assuming maintenance per year is 700, total maintenance over 21 years is 14,700

assuming you can get 4KW x 3 Hours a day (worst case scenario), which is 12KWH/day x 1.1316 = RM 13.58 per day = RM407 per month

Over 21 years, you can get RM102,564 from TNB,

So profit you make over 21 years is 102,564 - 86,227 -7,000 - 14,700 = -5,363 (Rugi !!!!, of course this is worst case scenario)

So I'd say if you get loan from bank, your PV is working for bank, not you. the FiT is only for people with cash in hand!!!
*
Now as a rule of thumb you can get 1kW between 10k-12k. So price is quite reasonable now.

Assuming 4kW system cost 48k, loan get 43.2k, paid blr 6.6% yearly, total paid up in 10 yrs would be 43,200 + 15,927 = 59,127.

Maintenance total of 21 yrs 14,700

So let me work around your calculation a bit. Using 3 hrs a day(worst case scenario),

Maximum fit rate you can get is RM1.316(below 4kw)+RM0.2392(install on roof)+RM0.03(use locally manufactured modules)=RM1.40

Use your worst case scenario 4kW x 3 hrs per day x RM1.40 x 30 days= RM 504 per mth

Direct calculation over 21 yrs RM 127,008 from TNB.

Profit is 127,008 - 59,127 - 4,300 (d/p) - 14,700 = RM 48,881. Profit. This is already worst case scenario.
g-string
post Jul 22 2013, 01:11 PM

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I made a few random calls from the providers on the SEDA website. I got an average quote of RM9k per kW.

One provider said, if possible go for the max 12kW install. This is what's allowed max per house.

So based on SEDA website, its RM1.1040 + RM0.2392 + RM0.030 = RM1.3732.

Would running 12kW make sense for investment + offset electric bill?

Anyone installed to their house before? Can you share or PM me the contact of your installer? I'm quite keen on doing this before this years quota is up.

thanks
weikee
post Jul 22 2013, 01:29 PM

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Have you all include income tax?
ozak
post Jul 22 2013, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(g-string @ Jul 22 2013, 01:11 PM)
I made a few random calls from the providers on the SEDA website. I got an average quote of RM9k per kW.

One provider said, if possible go for the max 12kW install. This is what's allowed max per house.

So based on SEDA website, its RM1.1040 + RM0.2392 + RM0.030 = RM1.3732.

Would running 12kW make sense for investment + offset electric bill?

Anyone installed to their house before? Can you share or PM me the contact of your installer? I'm quite keen on doing this before this years quota is up.

thanks
*
The provider can quote you more lower price if you want. But the output and panel quality is lower. It is not about how cheap you can go. Expensive panel have higher output, efficeincy and quality. So don't complain if your montly profit is lower and shorter life.

You can go for max of 12kw install. But very much depend on your roof space. If you have small roof or many A shape roof, not much panel kw can be install.
g-string
post Jul 22 2013, 02:09 PM

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weikee...he said its 9K installed.

ozak....true on the quality. Panasonic quoted almost 11k a kW. so maybe there's disparity on the quality and output.

sigh. don't know which is a good provider to get more info from. Was hoping those that have installed will be able to provide some feedback. cheers.
weikee
post Jul 22 2013, 02:27 PM

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All income generate from FiT are taxable. Please factor in this Roi

http://www.fit-seda-malaysia.com/Homeowners.html


Is income from feed-in tariffs considered taxable income?


Yes, it is taxable income and any exemptions would require a policy decision from the Government.

dude35
post Jul 22 2013, 03:25 PM

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QUOTE(g-string @ Jul 22 2013, 02:09 PM)
weikee...he said its 9K installed.

ozak....true on the quality. Panasonic quoted almost 11k a kW. so maybe there's disparity on the quality and output.

sigh. don't know which is a good provider to get more info from. Was hoping those that have installed will be able to provide some feedback. cheers.
*
It is well worth to research in the modules that you are selecting. Having said that there are only 2 locally manufactured Si modules that i see trusted. One being q-cells, the other is MSR. I do not know if Panasonic started to sell locally (Plant in Kulim). Maybe others could share other supplier that could obtain the RM0.03 cent adder.

The other factor I believe good customer support for warranty claim. As it is standard module will have the performance warranty:25yrs. 90% - 1st 10yrs, 80% - next 15 yrs. So at least supplier can swap any defect modules/complain fast.

Actually the main killer in Si modules are the heat from the roof. Commercial projects i.e warehouses, system are design with a lot of clearance from the actual roof. Most will degrade at a rate of -0.4% per degree raised.


avereng
post Jul 22 2013, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 22 2013, 09:47 AM)
What is the lowest month your panel generate?
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April 2013 average generation is 3.48kWh/kWp but July looks like going to be lowest, up to now is 3.33kWh/kWp
weikee
post Jul 22 2013, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Jul 22 2013, 04:47 PM)
April 2013 average generation is 3.48kWh/kWp but July looks like going to be lowest, up to now is 3.33kWh/kWp
*
Oct, and Nov could be lower.
andrewsh
post Jul 22 2013, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Jul 22 2013, 03:25 PM)
It is well worth to research in the modules that you are selecting. Having said that there are only 2 locally manufactured Si modules that i see trusted. One being q-cells, the other is MSR. I do not know if Panasonic started to sell locally (Plant in Kulim). Maybe others could share other supplier that could obtain the RM0.03 cent adder.

The other factor I believe good customer support for warranty claim. As it is standard module will have the performance warranty:25yrs. 90% - 1st 10yrs, 80% - next 15 yrs. So at least supplier can swap any defect modules/complain fast.

Actually the main killer in Si modules are the heat from the roof. Commercial projects i.e warehouses, system are design with a lot of clearance from the actual roof. Most will degrade at a rate of -0.4% per degree raised.
*
If I am not mistaken, the panel from Sunpower also considered as locally manufactured. Sunpower panel has the highest efficiency and lower degradation rate but is more expensive. Anyone investigate this panel?
weikee
post Jul 22 2013, 08:18 PM

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This year sharp came out the highest efficient panel which I think will take few more years to go into production.

http://inhabitat.com/sharp-breaks-its-own-...ent-solar-cell/
andrewsh
post Jul 22 2013, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 22 2013, 08:18 PM)
This year sharp came out the highest efficient panel which I think will take few more years to go into production.

http://inhabitat.com/sharp-breaks-its-own-...ent-solar-cell/
*
It will definitely takes a number of years to be available commercially. Just curious, what are the comment solar panels available in Malaysia market?

ozak
post Jul 22 2013, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 22 2013, 08:18 PM)
This year sharp came out the highest efficient panel which I think will take few more years to go into production.

http://inhabitat.com/sharp-breaks-its-own-...ent-solar-cell/
*
It look like just want to achieve something rather sell this panel to you.

If you want high efficiency panel that really selling in the market, look for panasonic. That high efficiency panel is actually takeover from Sanyo.
ozak
post Jul 22 2013, 11:25 PM

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QUOTE(g-string @ Jul 22 2013, 02:09 PM)
weikee...he said its 9K installed.

ozak....true on the quality. Panasonic quoted almost 11k a kW. so maybe there's disparity on the quality and output.

sigh. don't know which is a good provider to get more info from. Was hoping those that have installed will be able to provide some feedback. cheers.
*
There is a provider quote rm16k/kw. All the parts include panel is from Germany. High efficiency and even have insurance include for you. The insurance is not from the provider. But the German panel manufacturing.
billyboy
post Jul 23 2013, 08:28 AM

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I hear that Panasonic HIT series (locally available) is one of the best....
billyboy
post Jul 23 2013, 08:29 AM

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I was looking at Bosch panel, but lost some confidence when they put the whole business up for sale recently.
avereng
post Jul 23 2013, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(andrewsh @ Jul 22 2013, 08:58 PM)
It will definitely takes a number of years to be available commercially.  Just curious, what are the comment solar panels available in Malaysia market?
*
Personally, I have come across generation performance for QCell(mono), Panasonic(mono), Yingli(poly), BYD(poly) and CNPV(poly)
All have similar capacity (240-245W) and ordinary panel (not HIT, n-type mono)
Guess what? All have same performance. The difference is minimum.
andrewsh
post Jul 23 2013, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Jul 23 2013, 08:51 AM)
Personally, I have come across generation performance for QCell(mono), Panasonic(mono), Yingli(poly), BYD(poly) and CNPV(poly)
All have similar capacity (240-245W) and ordinary panel (not HIT, n-type mono)
Guess what? All have same performance. The difference is minimum.
*
Have you investigate Sunpower panel. From my understanding, Sunpower has one of the highest power rating. For example the E21 series can produce 327w.
dude35
post Jul 24 2013, 02:11 PM

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QUOTE(andrewsh @ Jul 23 2013, 10:12 PM)
Have you investigate Sunpower panel.  From my understanding, Sunpower has one of the highest power rating.  For example the E21 series can produce 327w.
*
The e-series that you mentioned is 96 cells configuration so you must then compare the same size/configuration.

I have attached a simple summary. In general a lot of manufacturer have 6x10 cells as standard. For this case I could not find for Sunpower and Panasonic.

In short conclusion between Sunpower,Q-Cells,Panasonic:
1. Highest output module: Sunpower at 327Wp.
2. Highest output per cell: Q-Cells at 4.5W/cell.
3. Lowest heat coefficient: Panasonic at -0.3%/deg C.

You must know the cost RM/Wp as this is how modules are sold. In the end it depends the whole system cost and your assume ROI.




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avereng
post Jul 24 2013, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(andrewsh @ Jul 23 2013, 10:12 PM)
Have you investigate Sunpower panel.  From my understanding, Sunpower has one of the highest power rating.  For example the E21 series can produce 327w.
*
My experience above is based on actual performance in Malaysia. No investigation involved, just compare generation data.

I have not come across any Sunpower panel yet. (I'm in doubt. Any guys want to bring in Sunpower?) Sunpower is expensive brand. E20 series is high efficiency panel. Each solar panel company has high efficiency panel for showcase and Malaysian SP don't use them. The pricing is not justify when compare to ordinary panel. I haven't meet any Panasonic HIT or Yingli Panda in Malaysia.

In case, you want to investigate, I suggest you to look for "Temperature Coefficient of Pmax". The lower the better. This is the measure of performance drop when panel working at temperature higher than 25deg C.
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post Jul 24 2013, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(avereng @ Jul 24 2013, 02:18 PM)
My experience above is based on actual performance in Malaysia. No investigation involved, just compare generation data.

I have not come across any Sunpower panel yet. (I'm in doubt. Any guys want to bring in Sunpower?) Sunpower is expensive brand. E20 series is high efficiency panel. Each solar panel company has high efficiency panel for showcase and Malaysian SP don't use them. The pricing is not justify when compare to ordinary panel. I haven't meet any Panasonic HIT or Yingli Panda in Malaysia.

In case, you want to investigate, I suggest you to look for "Temperature Coefficient of Pmax". The lower the better. This is the measure of performance drop when panel working at temperature higher than 25deg C.
*
From dude35's table, panasonic panel has the lower 'Temperature Coefficient of Pmax' and it is smaller in size. For those who has small roof, panasonic panel may be good to maximize the total output per area.

Does anyone know how much more expensive are the panasonic or sunpower panel cost compare to other panel?
Personally I have not seem panasonic HIT panel yet but have seem the normal panasonic panel whit is not the HIT model.
andrewsh
post Jul 24 2013, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Jul 24 2013, 02:11 PM)
The e-series that you mentioned is 96 cells configuration so you must then compare the same size/configuration.

I have attached a simple summary. In general a lot of manufacturer have 6x10 cells as standard. For this case I could not find for Sunpower and Panasonic.

In short conclusion between Sunpower,Q-Cells,Panasonic:
1. Highest output module: Sunpower at 327Wp.
2. Highest output per cell: Q-Cells at 4.5W/cell.
3. Lowest heat coefficient: Panasonic at -0.3%/deg C.

You must know the cost RM/Wp as this is how modules are sold. In the end it depends the whole system cost and your assume ROI.
*
Eventhough sunpower has more cells but the panel size is relatively about the same size (1.6 x 1m) compare to the general panel. So I guess it will be good for those want more power from limited roof space. Just do not know how much extra cost will it be.
dude35
post Jul 30 2013, 03:43 PM

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It seemed there is a lot of taker for solar right now. Around 790kW was taken up in 24 hrs.
andrewsh
post Jul 30 2013, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Jul 30 2013, 03:43 PM)
It seemed there is a lot of taker for solar right now. Around 790kW was taken up in 24 hrs.
*
As usual, people always wait until last minute before hurry hurry up to get the quota.
dude35
post Jul 31 2013, 04:46 PM

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Additional 500kW quota is finished within half day as well. Yup a lot of last minute application.
ozak
post Jul 31 2013, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Jul 31 2013, 04:46 PM)
Additional 500kW quota is finished within half day as well. Yup a lot of last minute application.
*
That is not much people apply. 790+500 = 1290kw. If average house apply for 5kw, there is only 258 house apply for whole malaysia.
dude35
post Aug 1 2013, 12:25 PM

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Another Bank is going to officially launch loan programme for solar today. I've heard its Bank Muamalat. See how the rate fares
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post Aug 1 2013, 01:40 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Aug 1 2013, 12:25 PM)
Another Bank is going to officially launch loan programme for solar today. I've heard its Bank Muamalat. See how the rate fares
*
Do this kind of loan require lawyer processing fee?
weikee
post Aug 1 2013, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 1 2013, 01:40 PM)
Do this kind of loan require lawyer processing fee?
*
Legal fees not sure. My colleague have a friend doing this FiT things, he say the loan need to have your house grant or some gurantor. I did not get more detail of it, maybe someone interested need to find out more.
ozak
post Aug 1 2013, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 1 2013, 01:54 PM)
Legal fees not sure. My colleague have a friend doing this FiT things, he say the loan need to have your house grant or some gurantor. I did not get more detail of it, maybe someone interested need to find out more.
*
What I know is the house must under your name. Some house strata or house title document. But gurantor ?

Since this kind of loan under BLR and some long yrs loan, legal processing probably need. That can be thousand RM. sweat.gif
dude35
post Aug 2 2013, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(dude35 @ Aug 1 2013, 12:25 PM)
Another Bank is going to officially launch loan programme for solar today. I've heard its Bank Muamalat. See how the rate fares
*
http://www.muamalat.com.my/downloads/media...PV-FIT-PLAN.pdf

Link is to the details of new product from Bank Mualamat. It uses home refinancing. As it states, the bank absorb legal fees and for a promo special rate? I dunno how that translate exactly.
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post Aug 4 2013, 04:56 PM

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Bank Muamalat appears to be a refinancing package? Any bank in Malaysia would be happy to do a refinancing package....

Key question is the interest rate, tenure and how long to get it approved...
Solar freak
post Aug 22 2013, 10:44 PM

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I installed the 4kw in my house and start commissioning since 9th May 2013

My System as follow
Panel: Canadian solar CS6P 250W x16pcs
Inventer: SMA 4000TL
DB Box System:ABB product

System generated as follow (average per month)
May:15.595125KWh
June:15.40236667KWh
July:13.89006452KWh




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Kiding
post Aug 23 2013, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 22 2013, 10:44 PM)
I installed the 4kw in my house and start commissioning since 9th May 2013

My System as follow
Panel: Canadian solar CS6P 250W x16pcs
Inventer: SMA 4000TL
DB Box System:ABB product

System generated as follow (average per month)
May:15.595125KWh
June:15.40236667KWh
July:13.89006452KWh
*
average 15KWH per month? or per day, per month is extremely low ohmy.gif
Solar freak
post Aug 23 2013, 12:23 AM

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Average per day. The system Projected average per year RM 6606.00 which translate to RM 550.50 Per Month

This post has been edited by Solar freak: Aug 23 2013, 12:27 AM
ozak
post Aug 23 2013, 12:41 AM

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QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 23 2013, 12:23 AM)
Average per day. The system Projected average per year RM 6606.00 which translate to RM 550.50 Per Month
*
What is your total cost investment? And your project of ROI?
sovietmah
post Aug 23 2013, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 23 2013, 12:23 AM)
Average per day. The system Projected average per year RM 6606.00 which translate to RM 550.50 Per Month
*
If investment is 60K, need 9.08 year to return modal.
not yet calculate maintenance cost also.
Seems like not worth
Solar freak
post Aug 23 2013, 01:37 PM

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My total cost RM 42,500 with Break even at 6.4yrs Form what I projected inclusive maintenance and efficiency drop 1% per yr at the end of 21st year My Gain is RM 67,615

Solar

44,000.00 Dividend Degradation
50,605.89 6,605.89 0%
57,112.68 6,506.80 98.5%
63,520.39 6,407.71 97.0%
69,829.01 6,308.62 95.5%
76,038.54 6,209.53 94.0%
82,148.99 6,110.44 92.5%
88,160.34 6,011.36 91.0%
94,072.61 5,912.27 89.5%
99,885.79 5,813.18 88.0%
105,599.88 5,714.09 86.5%
111,214.88 5,615.00 85.0%
116,730.80 5,515.91 83.5%
122,147.62 5,416.83 82.0%
127,465.36 5,317.74 80.5%
132,684.01 5,218.65 79.0%
137,803.57 5,119.56 77.5%
142,824.04 5,020.47 76.0%
147,745.43 4,921.38 74.5%
152,567.72 4,822.30 73.0%
157,290.93 4,723.21 71.5%
161,915.05 4,624.12 70.0%
67,615.05

Solar freak
post Aug 28 2013, 11:05 AM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
202 posts

Joined: Aug 2013
QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 23 2013, 01:37 PM)
My total cost RM 42,500 with Break even at 6.4yrs Form what I projected inclusive maintenance and efficiency drop 1% per yr at the end of 21st year My Gain is RM 67,615

Solar 
 
44,000.00 Dividend Degradation
50,605.89 6,605.89 0%
57,112.68 6,506.80 98.5%
63,520.39 6,407.71 97.0%
69,829.01 6,308.62 95.5%
76,038.54 6,209.53 94.0%
82,148.99 6,110.44 92.5%
88,160.34 6,011.36 91.0%
94,072.61 5,912.27 89.5%
99,885.79 5,813.18 88.0%
105,599.88 5,714.09 86.5%
111,214.88 5,615.00 85.0%
116,730.80 5,515.91 83.5%
122,147.62 5,416.83 82.0%
127,465.36 5,317.74 80.5%
132,684.01 5,218.65 79.0%
137,803.57 5,119.56 77.5%
142,824.04 5,020.47 76.0%
147,745.43 4,921.38 74.5%
152,567.72 4,822.30 73.0%
157,290.93 4,723.21 71.5%
161,915.05 4,624.12 70.0%
67,615.05
*
TNB Pay me 9/5/13~17/6/13 RM 863.60 and 18/6/13~1/8/13 RM 866 with average RM 20.58 per day rclxms.gif It higher than what Vendor quoted to me RM 550/Mth compare now RM 617/Mth rclxm9.gif

sovietmah
post Aug 28 2013, 11:27 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
2,243 posts

Joined: Nov 2005
QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 28 2013, 11:05 AM)
TNB Pay me 9/5/13~17/6/13 RM 863.60 and 18/6/13~1/8/13 RM 866 with average RM 20.58 per day rclxms.gif It higher than what Vendor quoted to me RM 550/Mth compare now RM 617/Mth rclxm9.gif
*
Are you vendor brother? ur username looks suspicious to me haha.
How much ur monthly repayment now?

This post has been edited by sovietmah: Aug 28 2013, 11:29 AM
ozak
post Aug 28 2013, 11:38 AM

10k Club
********
All Stars
17,025 posts

Joined: Jan 2005


QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 28 2013, 11:05 AM)
TNB Pay me 9/5/13~17/6/13 RM 863.60 and 18/6/13~1/8/13 RM 866 with average RM 20.58 per day rclxms.gif It higher than what Vendor quoted to me RM 550/Mth compare now RM 617/Mth rclxm9.gif
*
How much your estimate tax per yrs from the income?
Solar freak
post Aug 28 2013, 01:49 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
202 posts

Joined: Aug 2013
QUOTE(sovietmah @ Aug 28 2013, 11:27 AM)
Are you vendor brother? ur username looks suspicious to me haha.
How much ur monthly repayment now?
*
Bro No Lar I 'm not vendor but to share my knowledge to you guys ler biggrin.gif

I also construction freak, Water related freak and machinery freak also rclxm9.gif

This post has been edited by Solar freak: Aug 28 2013, 01:57 PM
Solar freak
post Aug 28 2013, 01:51 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
202 posts

Joined: Aug 2013
QUOTE(ozak @ Aug 28 2013, 11:38 AM)
How much your estimate tax per yrs from the income?
*
So far No tax I see under the TNB Billing
Solar freak
post Aug 28 2013, 01:55 PM

Getting Started
**
Junior Member
202 posts

Joined: Aug 2013
QUOTE(Solar freak @ Aug 28 2013, 01:49 PM)
Bro No Lar I 'm not vendor but to share my knowledge to you guys ler biggrin.gif
*
TNB Pay me 9/5/13~17/6/13 RM 863.60 on 31/7/2013 rclxms.gif and 18/6/13~1/8/13 RM 866 not pay yet cry.gif

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