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 Solar Power (FIT, Self-Consumption, Net-Metering), Business and Investment

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TSlocke
post Jan 10 2013, 12:20 AM, updated 8y ago

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I would like to introduce about Solar Power Feed in Tariff (FIT) . This is a new thing in Malaysia but already available some countries like German, Australia and western countries quite some time. Japan also just started not long ago.


1. What is Solar PV?
Basically it is a electrical/electronic system that produce electricity from Sun light that is installed on a building or on the ground.
PV stands for Photovoltaic. The term "photovoltaic" comes from the Greek φῶς (phōs) meaning "light", and from "Volt", the unit of electro-motive force, the volt. (Wikipedia).


2. What is a Feed in Tariff (FIT)?
Feed in Tariff is a special tariff rate that TNB would buy electricity from the Solar PV owner. The FIT rate for 2013 is around 4x of TNB residential Tariff rate, this means TNB is buying at a 4x tariff rate compare to the tariff rate that they are selling. The FIT is govern by Sustainable Energy Development Authority Malaysia. (SEDA)


3. How to apply for the Feed in Tariff?
Yoou could engage a SEDA/ISPQ qualified Solar System Integrator or service provider to apply for the Feed in Tariff.


4. Could i apply it myself?
Technically you could do so. Please visit the SEDA site (http://seda.gov.my/) there are tutorials and forms in the site that woud guide you for the application.


5. What is the duration of the Feed in Tariff?
The duration would be 21 years. Basically TNB would sign a contract with the FIT rate with the Solar PV owner for 21 years.


6. How do we see the money?
An additional PV meter (similiar to TNB meter) would be install to record down the electricity generated by the Solar PV system. TNB would pay you based on the unit (kWH) generated multiply by the Feed in Tariff Rate.


7. What is the ROI?
The ROI roughly would be ~10%-20%* *this an estimation only and depends on the solar pv location, geographical condition, design, and many other factors. Please consult your service provider/system integrator to provide the calculation.


Please visit the official government website http://seda.gov.my/ for more details.

This post has been edited by locke: Aug 23 2016, 05:47 PM
Jordy
post Jan 10 2013, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(locke @ Jan 10 2013, 12:20 AM)
I would like to introduce about Solar PV Feed in Tariff (FIT) . This is a new thing in Malaysia but already available some countries like German and western countries quite some time. Japan also just started not long ago.
1. What is Solar PV?
Basically it is a electrical/electronic system that produce electricity from Sun light that is installed on a building or on the ground.
PV stands for Photovoltaic. The term "photovoltaic" comes from the Greek φῶς (phōs) meaning "light", and from "Volt", the unit of electro-motive force, the volt. (Wikipedia).
2. What is a Feed in Tariff (FIT)?
Feed in Tariff is a special tariff rate that TNB would buy electricity from the Solar PV owner. The FIT rate for 2013 is around 4x of TNB residential Tariff rate, this means TNB is buying at a 4x tariff rate compare to the tariff rate that they are selling. The FIT is govern by Sustainable Energy Development Authority Malaysia. (SEDA)
3. How to apply for the Feed in Tariff?
Yoou could engage a SEDA/ISPQ qualified Solar System Integrator or service provider to apply for the Feed in Tariff.
4. Could i apply it myself?
Technically you could do so. Please visit the SEDA site (http://seda.gov.my/) there are tutorials and forms in the site that woud guide you for the application.
5. What is the duration of the Feed in Tariff?
The duration would be 21 years. Basically TNB would sign a contract with the FIT rate with the Solar PV owner for 21 years.
6. How do we see the money?
An additional PV meter (similiar to TNB meter) would be install to record down the electricity generated by the Solar PV system. TNB would pay you based on the unit (kWH) generated multiply by the Feed in Tariff Rate.
7. What is the ROI?
The ROI roughly would be ~12%-17%*. Please consult your service provider/system integrator.
*this an estimation only and depends on the solar pv location, geographical condition, design, and many other factors.
Please visit the official government website http://seda.gov.my/ for more details.

I would update the post later with more details when there is more time.
*
locke,

Yup, I heard about this scheme some time back, but don't know that it has started operations. Perhaps you could furnish us with more detailed information like the following:

1. Cost of installation (estimation)
2. The output based on size
3. Example computation of profits
4. Additional contractual terms and conditions (location, size, types of properties, etc)
5. Frequency of payment and payment methods

These additional information could be very helpful to the interested parties.
PJusa
post Jan 10 2013, 02:50 PM

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I did the maths for a very large private installtion. ROI is nowhere near the stated % even if you it as building material to maximise the FiT.

reason - the following has to be considered:

depreciation/write off
maintenance
insurance for the installation

+ income from FiT is taxable
+ expenses and write off are not possible for private installation

at the end of the day even on a large installation the ROI is so small that it's not worth undertaking the venture from an investment POV. if i remember correctly effective ROI barely hit 3% and that was only because the installed size was 26KwP for my house.

if you can give me a calculation for 26 KwP that gives me 10% please (and i mean it!) get in touch with me ASAP. i have approved funding from my bank for the entire installtion to cover total roof with solar and replace existing roof. BUT i will only do it if it's a good and safe investment.
Jordy
post Jan 11 2013, 01:39 AM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jan 10 2013, 02:50 PM)
I did the maths for a very large private installtion. ROI is nowhere near the stated % even if you it as building material to maximise the FiT.

reason - the following has to be considered:

depreciation/write off
maintenance
insurance for the installation

+ income from FiT is taxable
+ expenses and write off are not possible for private installation

at the end of the day even on a large installation the ROI is so small that it's not worth undertaking the venture from an investment POV. if i remember correctly effective ROI barely hit 3% and that was only because the installed size was 26KwP for my house.

if you can give me a calculation for 26 KwP that gives me 10% please (and i mean it!) get in touch with me ASAP. i have approved funding from my bank for the entire installtion to cover total roof with solar and replace existing roof. BUT i will only do it if it's a good and safe investment.
*
PJusa,

So you have done it and your ROI is a mere 3%? Need to know more if you don't mind smile.gif
wahming
post Jan 11 2013, 03:47 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Jan 11 2013, 01:39 AM)
PJusa,

So you have done it and your ROI is a mere 3%? Need to know more if you don't mind smile.gif
*
No Jordy, he did the maths for it, not the actual installation.

To TS: Please provide more info. I've been interested in this for years. If it's finally viable, I'd be happy to test it out. rclxms.gif
prophetjul
post Jan 11 2013, 07:31 AM

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Corrupted scheme ...........

we did a large one for the company............come end 2011.......

everything was taken up in 30 mins!
AND this was through the e-submitting.
Took a consulatnt more than an hour to put through the docs.
How can the quotas be taken up in less than half an hour?

Guess who gotta the bulk of the quota? Oh Malaysia! icon_question.gif

QUOTE
PETALING JAYA: Pakatan Rakyat alleged today that the daughter of the former chief secretary to the government has monopoly over the newly introduced resalable alternative energy scheme and wants Putrajaya to respond immediately.

DAP national publicity chief Tony Pua claimed research shows that Suzi Suliana, the daughter of Mohd Sidek Hassan, controls more than 32% or 45MW from the quota set for solar energy via the Feed-In Tariff (FiT) mechanism, far above the limit of 1MW-5W to companies.

Under the FiT programme, power generated from renewable energy would be resold through the Sustainable Energy Development Authority.

The energy is sold back to consumers by Tenaga Nasional Bhd at a subsidised price.

This is provided for under the Sustainable Energy Development Authority Act 2011.

The FiT scheme was aimed at developing the use of renewable energy in the country and is funded by the public via the consumers through a 1% increase in power rates for those using more than 300kWh.

The programme falls under the purview of the Energy, Green Technology and Water Ministry, which promised to prevent monopolisation and favouritism to any FiT applicants.

Suzi, however, was said to have secured the contracts through direct ownership of three companies and nine others through partnerships despite the government’s pledge to disallow any form of preferential treatment.

Less for big players

The companies are Sun Energy Ventures Sdn Bhd which owns 98% of three other companies – Hundred Tech Sdn Bhd, Indo Eagle Sdn Bhd and Sharp Crest Sdn Bhd, which then holds 51% stakes in nine other companies.

“What is more shocking is the fact that all of these companies except for Sun Ventures (May 2010) and Uptown Sdn Bhd (September 2011), were set up only in November,” Pua told reporters here.

This is less than a month before applications for the permits were supposed to have been given out in December 2011, added the Petaling Jaya Utara MP.

“It only proves that none of these companies have any track record or experience with solar power generation but they were still given the lion’s share of the lucrative power quota,” Pua said.

All these companies secured quotas far above those allocated for established players like Cypark and Petronas Power which received 9.2% and 7.1% respectively.

The DAP leader said energy minister Peter Chin and Seda chairman Fong Chan Onn must now explain to the public on the alleged discrepancy in the contract award process.

“The award has also created a lot of disquiet and unhappiness in the renewable energy industry, with many players claiming foul play and favouritism in the award of the quota.”


http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/...power-business/
yorkhan
post Jan 11 2013, 10:15 AM

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http://seda.gov.my/go-home.php?omaneg=0001...000000000&s=140


Why so many in KLIA? What are they supplying?
I am actually very interested in this Solar PV, however the cost and redtape is high. I have a friend working in a company that will deal with all paperwork and installation. Its just sad that Malaysia is like this.
wongmunkeong
post Jan 11 2013, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Jan 11 2013, 01:39 AM)
PJusa,

So you have done it and your ROI is a mere 3%? Need to know more if you don't mind smile.gif
*
Hi Jordy.

Sorry for butting in - just sharing my personal findings from 2011 and 2013 (recent update) in the ZIPped Excel.
Please note U'd need the XIRR() function to work by installing the Analysis Toolpack to see the CAGR.

Still not worthwhile to me (VS other options of greening/investing) coz:
a. Tax (as shared by fellow forumers earlier)
b. The effective/actual kWh/day generated by a solar system per kWp is still highly dependant on installation & type of solar panels (see the "Comments" in cell C1 of the 2013 worksheet)

Just a thought. By the way, i numbers are not "gospel truths" yar, just dredged up via talking with vendors & googling notworthy.gif

PS: Fellow forumers - U can change the YELLOW & RED cells in the worksheet 2013 like "26%" (tax rate) and stuff for your own forecasting to see "worth it or not" VS other usages of your time & $.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jan 11 2013, 12:52 PM


Attached File(s)
Attached File  Solar_or_Not_to_Solar.zip ( 381.36k ) Number of downloads: 2087
Jordy
post Jan 11 2013, 07:56 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jan 11 2013, 12:50 PM)
Hi Jordy.

Sorry for butting in - just sharing my personal findings from 2011 and 2013 (recent update) in the ZIPped Excel.
Please note U'd need the XIRR() function to work by installing the Analysis Toolpack to see the CAGR.

Still not worthwhile to me (VS other options of greening/investing) coz:
a. Tax (as shared by fellow forumers earlier)
b. The effective/actual kWh/day generated by a solar system per kWp is still highly dependant on installation & type of solar panels (see the "Comments" in cell C1 of the 2013 worksheet)

Just a thought. By the way, i numbers are not "gospel truths" yar, just dredged up via talking with vendors & googling  notworthy.gif

PS: Fellow forumers - U can change the YELLOW & RED cells in the worksheet 2013 like "26%" (tax rate) and stuff for your own forecasting to see "worth it or not" VS other usages of your time & $.
*
wongmunkeong,

Thank you VERY much for sharing this! I need some time to digest this spreadsheet, but nonetheless kudos to you my friend smile.gif
Would really want to meet up with you to discuss regarding your findings. I would like to hear about your input.
TSlocke
post Jan 12 2013, 11:10 AM

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The solar generation is dependant on the location. The spreadsheet seems to be created by someone from UK.

Please take note that UK is one of the location with the lowest solar irradiation while Malaysia is somewhere in the middle to upper middle region.
The solar irradiation is also affected by the tilt angle and the facing direction, so it can be different even in the same location.

Please do a site survey or consult the system integrator to perform site survey before calculating instead of plucking variables from the air.
To maximize the generation, we would try to avoid any shadow like trees of tall building over shadowing the location.

The next thing to consider to maximize the solar generation is the design, type of solar panel/inverter and the size of the installation. That would be another topic.

This post has been edited by locke: Jan 12 2013, 11:20 AM
TSlocke
post Jan 12 2013, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Jan 10 2013, 02:31 PM)
locke,

Yup, I heard about this scheme some time back, but don't know that it has started operations. Perhaps you could furnish us with more detailed information like the following:

1. Cost of installation (estimation)
2. The output based on size
3. Example computation of profits
4. Additional contractual terms and conditions (location, size, types of properties, etc)
5. Frequency of payment and payment methods

These additional information could be very helpful to the interested parties.
*
Dear Jordy,

The cost of installation or RM/kWp would differs depend on the size but the overall cost would go down with the increase of size.
A site survey is needed at least to estimate the output and computations.
wongmunkeong
post Jan 12 2013, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(locke @ Jan 12 2013, 11:10 AM)
The solar generation is dependant on the location. The spreadsheet seems to be created by someone from UK.

Please take note that UK is one of the location with the lowest solar irradiation while Malaysia is somewhere in the middle to upper middle region.
The solar irradiation is also affected by the tilt angle and the facing direction, so it can be different even in the same location.

Please do a site survey or consult the system integrator to perform site survey before calculating instead of plucking variables from the air.
To maximize the generation, we would try to avoid any shadow like trees of tall building over shadowing the location.

The next thing to consider to maximize the solar generation is the design, type of solar panel/inverter and the size of the installation. That would be another topic.
*
Locke, if I may, please ensure your foot is not in yr mouth & find out first before assUme-Ing. I'm a local fler & that spreadsheet was based on 4 vendors info + googling local + world setup of solar panels on residential. if U actually took the pains to read the remarks for the kWh/day U'd have noticed some stuff.

3 of the 4 vendors had the decency to pop over & survey then educate & quote, unlike some others hiding & demanding documents to be signed first. Would U want me to assUme, like U, what kind of vendor U are? Do onto others as U want others to do onto thee.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jan 12 2013, 09:28 PM
wongmunkeong
post Jan 12 2013, 09:29 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Jan 11 2013, 07:56 PM)
wongmunkeong,

Thank you VERY much for sharing this! I need some time to digest this spreadsheet, but nonetheless kudos to you my friend smile.gif
Would really want to meet up with you to discuss regarding your findings. I would like to hear about your input.
*
Hi Jordy,

Nah - apparently i'm a UK fler, i guess Locke would be your best bet here. Good luck (and i really mean it from my heart if he/she/it is your best bet).

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jan 12 2013, 09:34 PM
PJusa
post Jan 13 2013, 09:37 PM

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wongmunkeong,

thanks for sharing. will take a look - looks like we came to the same conclusion though.

to all:

my numbers are based on serveral vendors coming to my site, proposing various panel types and taking into consideration my roof slant and direction etc. it also considers a huge economies of scale due to the size. before factoring in depreciation, income tax, maintenance, standard write-off and degradtion in yield the ROI for a 23 kWp installtion was under ideal yet real life conditions 9%, after factoring in a 25 yrs write off for the panels and 10yrs for the the inverters maintenance, sinking for repairs etc. you already end up with 4% (at least) to minus.

and your personal tax rate for example 26% also goes away - but from the FiT payments (!) i.e. 9 % becomes 6.66% only.

then minus 4% for the above and you end up with 2.66% effective ROI. that stinks.

for smaller scale installation i reckon the effective RÒI is even less. i am better off putting the money in a FD like that.

for business the maths are nicer because inlike me they can use expenditures and write offs to deduct against FiT payments.
cwhong
post Jan 14 2013, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jan 11 2013, 12:50 PM)
Hi Jordy.

Sorry for butting in - just sharing my personal findings from 2011 and 2013 (recent update) in the ZIPped Excel.
Please note U'd need the XIRR() function to work by installing the Analysis Toolpack to see the CAGR.

Still not worthwhile to me (VS other options of greening/investing) coz:
a. Tax (as shared by fellow forumers earlier)
b. The effective/actual kWh/day generated by a solar system per kWp is still highly dependant on installation & type of solar panels (see the "Comments" in cell C1 of the 2013 worksheet)

Just a thought. By the way, i numbers are not "gospel truths" yar, just dredged up via talking with vendors & googling  notworthy.gif

PS: Fellow forumers - U can change the YELLOW & RED cells in the worksheet 2013 like "26%" (tax rate) and stuff for your own forecasting to see "worth it or not" VS other usages of your time & $.
*
really notworthy.gif the efforts that u put on the excel file ...... notworthy.gif been approched by two ppl in one week only now i can sit down to look at the scheme. seems like put money in reits and FD is peace of minds ....... (ps: for me smile.gif)
wongmunkeong
post Jan 14 2013, 07:30 AM

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QUOTE(cwhong @ Jan 14 2013, 12:50 AM)
really  notworthy.gif the efforts that u put on the excel file ......  notworthy.gif  been approched by two ppl in one week only now i can sit down to look at the scheme. seems like put money in reits and FD is peace of minds ....... (ps: for me smile.gif)
*
Well, if one were to install in their retired (ie. no income officially) parents' home... quite ok geh the returns coz no tax.
But at our tax rates, yup - REITs and even FD is better, keeping in mind the 20+ years lock-in period & disposal/removal cost (if one wishes to "end it").

Note - i read that the contract with TNB is between property owner & TNB, thus i can't "put the contract" to my mother when the installation is on my property heheh. Dang... dunno if any other loopholes - hey, i'm all for going green but not at the expense of nuking my investment returns sweat.gif
yorkhan
post Jan 14 2013, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jan 14 2013, 07:30 AM)
Well, if one were to install in their retired (ie. no income officially) parents' home... quite ok geh the returns coz no tax.
But at our tax rates, yup - REITs and even FD is better, keeping in mind the 20+ years lock-in period & disposal/removal cost (if one wishes to "end it").

Note - i read that the contract with TNB is between property owner & TNB, thus i can't "put the contract" to my mother when the installation is on my property heheh. Dang... dunno if any other loopholes - hey, i'm all for going green but not at the expense of nuking my investment returns  sweat.gif
*
true..unless ur house has ur parents name in it too? lolz
yhtan
post Jan 14 2013, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Jan 14 2013, 07:30 AM)
Well, if one were to install in their retired (ie. no income officially) parents' home... quite ok geh the returns coz no tax.
But at our tax rates, yup - REITs and even FD is better, keeping in mind the 20+ years lock-in period & disposal/removal cost (if one wishes to "end it").

Note - i read that the contract with TNB is between property owner & TNB, thus i can't "put the contract" to my mother when the installation is on my property heheh. Dang... dunno if any other loopholes - hey, i'm all for going green but not at the expense of nuking my investment returns  sweat.gif
*
I've read some claim that able to yield double digit return per annum, after seeing your worksheet, only single digit return per annum rclxub.gif
I'm not sure the Solar Panel able to claim capital allowance to offset against chargeable income, if yes then the yield would be attractive.

Anyway thanks for your worksheet notworthy.gif
My mainly concern is the durability of solar panel, most likely going to write off if the panel is spoil
TSlocke
post Jan 14 2013, 01:50 PM

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The applicant can be not the owner of site but need to have the letter of agreement that the the applicant can utilise the site for at least the minimum duration of the FIT.
icemanfx
post Jan 15 2013, 12:09 AM

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Most solar panels manufacturers priced their products for 5+ years pay back period.

Solar panels manufacturers only tell output of solar cell but not losses on conversion from DC to AC.

Existing roofs structure are not designed to take any additional load.

Like solar water heater, by the time you recover your investment, it is time for you to replace with new units.

Solar electric is nothing new if it is feasible, many would have installed by now.


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