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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2011, Liverpool 2 -1 Wolves : LS7 scored again

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TSsolstice818
post Aug 29 2011, 01:57 AM

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QUOTE(leaF @ Aug 29 2011, 01:51 AM)
arshavin once said he was amazed with the support from liverpool supporters in Anfield but I prefer we get back benayoun, I think he will much suitable to play our pass and move style now
*
I think we need a proper traditional right winger. Arshavin and Benny are both players that cut inside from flanks. Not to say that they are ineffective but we need someone who can deliver crosses from the right.

Notice anything about our current team? Our team left flank has gone from the weakest area to the strongest area. The addition of Enrique and Downing has certainly make it one of the most potent weapon we have in our arsenal. Downing bombing forward with great positioning sense and appear on time to help out defense. Enrique, attacking but doing a great job at defense simultaneously. More importantly, both deliver delicious crosses from left. It has gone from weakest area to strongest area.I do think we can further improve our right flank especially when Hendo, Kuyt and even Maxi are not the traditional type of winger that deliver crosses.... We need someone on the right to deliver more crosses, someone with pace to beat the defenders....
cheez
post Aug 29 2011, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Aug 29 2011, 01:57 AM)
I think we need a proper traditional right winger. Arshavin and Benny are both players that cut inside from flanks. Not to say that they are ineffective but we need someone who can deliver crosses from the right.

Notice anything about our current team? Our team left flank has gone from the weakest area to the strongest area. The addition of Enrique and Downing has certainly make it one of the most potent weapon we have in our arsenal. Downing bombing forward with great positioning sense and appear on time to help out defense. Enrique, attacking but doing a great job at defense simultaneously. More importantly, both deliver delicious crosses from left. It has gone from weakest area to strongest area.I do think we can further improve our right flank especially when Hendo, Kuyt and even Maxi are not the traditional type of winger that deliver crosses.... We need someone on the right to deliver more crosses, someone with pace to beat the defenders....
*
+1.
the left side more enjoyable to watch recently.

As for right wing, i personally feel that our midfield is too crowded and any extra addition would be too much.
I'd prefer pass and move kinda play with occasional crosses which is currently being played when Suarez is the target man.

I might be wrong. Always open to comments. nod.gif
Rotuham
post Aug 29 2011, 02:05 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Aug 29 2011, 01:57 AM)
I think we need a proper traditional right winger. Arshavin and Benny are both players that cut inside from flanks. Not to say that they are ineffective but we need someone who can deliver crosses from the right.

Notice anything about our current team? Our team left flank has gone from the weakest area to the strongest area. The addition of Enrique and Downing has certainly make it one of the most potent weapon we have in our arsenal. Downing bombing forward with great positioning sense and appear on time to help out defense. Enrique, attacking but doing a great job at defense simultaneously. More importantly, both deliver delicious crosses from left. It has gone from weakest area to strongest area.I do think we can further improve our right flank especially when Hendo, Kuyt and even Maxi are not the traditional type of winger that deliver crosses.... We need someone on the right to deliver more crosses, someone with pace to beat the defenders....
*
i think suarez can do that and when johnson is back he will be very useful.What i m slightly worried is conceding cheap goals very late like yesterday and mu last season.Reina was very angry as it cost him clean sheet and possibly golden gloves.
leaF
post Aug 29 2011, 02:06 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Aug 29 2011, 01:57 AM)
I think we need a proper traditional right winger. Arshavin and Benny are both players that cut inside from flanks. Not to say that they are ineffective but we need someone who can deliver crosses from the right.

Notice anything about our current team? Our team left flank has gone from the weakest area to the strongest area. The addition of Enrique and Downing has certainly make it one of the most potent weapon we have in our arsenal. Downing bombing forward with great positioning sense and appear on time to help out defense. Enrique, attacking but doing a great job at defense simultaneously. More importantly, both deliver delicious crosses from left. It has gone from weakest area to strongest area.I do think we can further improve our right flank especially when Hendo, Kuyt and even Maxi are not the traditional type of winger that deliver crosses.... We need someone on the right to deliver more crosses, someone with pace to beat the defenders....
*
a right foot winger is not that hard to find compare to left foot winger. The thing is we are not really desperate on that position where I can see Maxi , Raul , Kuyt , Suarez , Hendo can fill in that roles at anytime . If you guys notice , Downing is not really good in getting pass the opponent player, playing tricks . Hope we can get someone with quality like Afellay which I think is very good in doing all those tricks skills.
Rotuham
post Aug 29 2011, 02:13 AM

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QUOTE(leaF @ Aug 29 2011, 02:06 AM)
a right foot winger is not that hard to find compare to left foot winger. The thing is we are not really desperate on that position where I can see Maxi , Raul , Kuyt , Suarez , Hendo can fill in that roles at anytime . If you guys notice , Downing is not really good in getting pass the opponent player, playing tricks . Hope we can get someone with quality like Afellay which I think is very good in doing all those tricks skills.
*
Dude,he does this very well! What he lacks is the final product when most of his shot off target.
leaF
post Aug 29 2011, 02:20 AM

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QUOTE(Rotuham @ Aug 29 2011, 02:13 AM)
Dude,he does this very well! What he lacks is the final product when most of his shot off target.
*
well , he is more like a pacy david beckham to me , not until cronaldo level or harry kewell =)
odengerrard
post Aug 29 2011, 03:06 AM

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im not sure whether all of u see this or not. but what SKY Journalist said yesterday caught my attention.

LFC need Suarez to score. Realistically, it is only a matter of time hard teams injures Suarez. Not being negative, but being cautious.

Andy proved to everybody in Newcastle's shirt, but yet to prove in Ours.

Ill take Bellamy for a clinical finisher for sure despite his dicipline and attitude as backup..

right winger? well, rilex, our captain is on his way back. Glenno is coming back too. gonna be a good width with em. Stevie can focus on the flank while adam/lucas/hendo/raul takes his place..

well, maybe we can stick Kelly at right back and changes glenno to as a winger.. but it wont be as natural as a true winger..

well, in kenny we trust.

YNWA lads.
hyperyouth_firepower
post Aug 29 2011, 03:17 AM

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Just refrain from entering any other FC threads. Stay away. We may mean well but you cannot say for the same for them, as in how they perceive things.


In any case, I would bring up the case with the Adam+Lucas pairing and how things may work out.

Now, we all may be able to agree that Lucas is one of those players that bleeds Liverpool red, inside out and plays his heart, whether the team is playing exceptionally well or in its dire low (touchwood).

There are key points in making the pass-and-move groove to the liverpool football tune and that is that one role of Lucas as a DM as the 'conductor' to the orchestra.

Before I begin I was lead to reading a certain article by a certain GREMIO FC supporter in RAWK forums, which after further reading and assessment of the 'theory', here I produce my thoughts in Lucas's "conductor" role.

When our previous gaffer Rafa Benitez brought Lucas Leiva from Gremio, we all can possibly agree to an established fact that is that Lucas was one of Gremio's and Brazil's most promising talent in the AM category, and the one thing that makes Lucas very outstanding in Gremio was that he had the ideal positioning brain and the 'innate knowledge' of "WHO to pass" (not how to pass) and ability to make full use of his hold-the-ball skills. However, one thing that baffled a whole lot of fans and supporters is that how on earth he ended up being a DM instead of an AM and the 'disastrous' baptism-by-fire in which the earlier seasons he had with us, he had all the stick from fans and supporters. Still, Rafa being a master tactician (given if the players are playing exactly to his ever-tight-grip orchestra-on-the-field) had one idea in mind that perhaps I dare say King Kenny got it right, and something in line with the pass-and-move is the possessive play that was the main 'theme' in the 4-2-4 of the 1970s Brazil.

Irregardless of how things work before for Brazil in 1970s and how things are supposed to work for Liverpool, one thing that I was made to realize was the post that introduced the idea of a "control tower" DM that the current Brazilian team plays with Lucas at the core of the entire team, which tries to emulate the playing style of the 1970s. The main function of that 1 DM is that Lucas will have to play from deep down (as far down as from the defense line) and start 'assisting' with the push with the AMs and the CFs (or CF in our 4-5-1 style) where the DM acts as the 'pusher' and the AMs act as the 'nodes'.

Confusing? Lucas versus Totenham, or was it Bolton, (2010) so to speak, where he gains the ball, presses forward, pushes the ball into one of the AMs, and let them break the defense wall. In the case where AMs can't, they pass the ball back to the "control tower DM", the DM will then hold the ball and push it to another AM to break through, and the entire cycle repeats itself. DM pass to AM, AM breaks or pass back to DM and holds it up and passes it to another AM, and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until the wall is broken.

As far as what the Gremio fan states, I also have developed (to my own understanding) of the current Liverpool pass-and-move game that King Kenny wants to achieve is not of the triangulation when it comes to Lucas' role but he will serve as the 'control tower' for every build up to any form of attacking play. Right from the DM.

The only reason as to why and how I see King Kenny plays Lucas almost similarly in that role is definitely not because that Lucas was the only man available (we spent a hell lot for many players come this season, and we have not replaced Lucas despite what others want us to think so) with any other signings of DM (with exception of Spearing where he's locally homegrown from our Academy ranks) that would replace nor to emulate Lucas' role.

If there's a person who knows WHO to lead an attack, Lucas would know, but as much as everyone can probably agree he's not the best passer, but that's the idea of the 'control tower DM', that is to control the flow and tempo of the game by setting up WHO gets the ball to lead the attack and acting as a rear-guard once the ball's passed forward in any case of the ball being pushed back to the DM to initiate new attack moves.

Still, I don't see quite how people may want to 'compare' our Lucas with the likes of Xabi Alonso, Xavi of Barca or other types of 'midfield bosses'.


But one thing that Rafa got it wrong (not by his choice, technically speaking), Roy got it worse (really he did) and King Kenny almost got it right is the selection of the 'deputy' that acts as the 'front man' for our DM to make his move. And I believe that Adam+Lucas, as evidently shown in some of the pre-season friendlies as well as last week's win over Arsenal proves that Adam+Lucas is a pairing that is worth considering as a backbone for an offensive orchestra. (remember, King Kenny builds his team from the striker to the defense, whereas Rafa Benitez does the groove entirely the opposite way)

So what say you?


odengerrard
post Aug 29 2011, 03:22 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Aug 29 2011, 03:17 AM)
Just refrain from entering any other FC threads. Stay away. We may mean well but you cannot say for the same for them, as in how they perceive things.
In any case, I would bring up the case with the Adam+Lucas pairing and how things may work out.

Now, we all may be able to agree that Lucas is one of those players that bleeds Liverpool red, inside out and plays his heart, whether the team is playing exceptionally well or in its dire low (touchwood).

There are key points in making the pass-and-move groove to the liverpool football tune and that is that one role of Lucas as a DM as the 'conductor' to the orchestra.

Before I begin I was lead to reading a certain article by a certain GREMIO FC supporter in RAWK forums, which after further reading and assessment of the 'theory', here I produce my thoughts in Lucas's "conductor" role.

When our previous gaffer Rafa Benitez brought Lucas Leiva from Gremio, we all can possibly agree to an established fact that is that Lucas was one of Gremio's and Brazil's most promising talent in the AM category, and the one thing that makes Lucas very outstanding in Gremio was that he had the ideal positioning brain and the 'innate knowledge' of "WHO to pass" (not how to pass) and ability to make full use of his hold-the-ball skills. However, one thing that baffled a whole lot of fans and supporters is that how on earth he ended up being a DM instead of an AM and the 'disastrous' baptism-by-fire in which the earlier seasons he had with us, he had all the stick from fans and supporters. Still, Rafa being a master tactician (given if the players are playing exactly to his ever-tight-grip orchestra-on-the-field) had one idea in mind that perhaps I dare say King Kenny got it right, and something in line with the pass-and-move is the possessive play that was the main 'theme' in the 4-2-4 of the 1970s Brazil.

Irregardless of how things work before for Brazil in 1970s and how things are supposed to work for Liverpool, one thing that I was made to realize was the post that introduced the idea of a "control tower" DM that the current Brazilian team plays with Lucas at the core of the entire team, which tries to emulate the playing style of the 1970s. The main function of that 1 DM is that Lucas will have to play from deep down (as far down as from the defense line) and start 'assisting' with the push with the AMs and the CFs (or CF in our 4-5-1 style) where the DM acts as the 'pusher' and the AMs act as the 'nodes'.

Confusing? Lucas versus Totenham, or was it Bolton, (2010) so to speak, where he gains the ball, presses forward, pushes the ball into one of the AMs, and let them break the defense wall. In the case where AMs can't, they pass the ball back to the "control tower DM", the DM will then hold the ball and push it to another AM to break through, and the entire cycle repeats itself. DM pass to AM, AM breaks or pass back to DM and holds it up and passes it to another AM, and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until the wall is broken.

As far as what the Gremio fan states, I also have developed (to my own understanding) of the current Liverpool pass-and-move game that King Kenny wants to achieve is not of the triangulation when it comes to Lucas' role but he will serve as the 'control tower' for every build up to any form of attacking play. Right from the DM.

The only reason as to why and how I see King Kenny plays Lucas almost similarly in that role is definitely not because that Lucas was the only man available (we spent a hell lot for many players come this season, and we have not replaced Lucas despite what others want us to think so) with any other signings of DM (with exception of Spearing where he's locally homegrown from our Academy ranks) that would replace nor to emulate Lucas' role.

If there's a person who knows WHO to lead an attack, Lucas would know, but as much as everyone can probably agree he's not the best passer, but that's the idea of the 'control tower DM', that is to control the flow and tempo of the game by setting up WHO gets the ball to lead the attack and acting as a rear-guard once the ball's passed forward in any case of the ball being pushed back to the DM to initiate new attack moves.

Still, I don't see quite how people may want to 'compare' our Lucas with the likes of Xabi Alonso, Xavi of Barca or other types of 'midfield bosses'.
But one thing that Rafa got it wrong (not by his choice, technically speaking), Roy got it worse (really he did) and King Kenny almost got it right is the selection of the 'deputy' that acts as the 'front man' for our DM to make his move. And I believe that Adam+Lucas, as evidently shown in some of the pre-season friendlies as well as last week's win over Arsenal proves that Adam+Lucas is a pairing that is worth considering as a backbone for an offensive orchestra. (remember, King Kenny builds his team from the striker to the defense, whereas Rafa Benitez does the groove entirely the opposite way)

So what say you?
*
superb article mate!
simply worth reading!
thumbup.gif
Canopies
post Aug 29 2011, 03:57 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Aug 29 2011, 03:17 AM)
Just refrain from entering any other FC threads. Stay away. We may mean well but you cannot say for the same for them, as in how they perceive things.
In any case, I would bring up the case with the Adam+Lucas pairing and how things may work out.

Now, we all may be able to agree that Lucas is one of those players that bleeds Liverpool red, inside out and plays his heart, whether the team is playing exceptionally well or in its dire low (touchwood).

There are key points in making the pass-and-move groove to the liverpool football tune and that is that one role of Lucas as a DM as the 'conductor' to the orchestra.

Before I begin I was lead to reading a certain article by a certain GREMIO FC supporter in RAWK forums, which after further reading and assessment of the 'theory', here I produce my thoughts in Lucas's "conductor" role.

When our previous gaffer Rafa Benitez brought Lucas Leiva from Gremio, we all can possibly agree to an established fact that is that Lucas was one of Gremio's and Brazil's most promising talent in the AM category, and the one thing that makes Lucas very outstanding in Gremio was that he had the ideal positioning brain and the 'innate knowledge' of "WHO to pass" (not how to pass) and ability to make full use of his hold-the-ball skills. However, one thing that baffled a whole lot of fans and supporters is that how on earth he ended up being a DM instead of an AM and the 'disastrous' baptism-by-fire in which the earlier seasons he had with us, he had all the stick from fans and supporters. Still, Rafa being a master tactician (given if the players are playing exactly to his ever-tight-grip orchestra-on-the-field) had one idea in mind that perhaps I dare say King Kenny got it right, and something in line with the pass-and-move is the possessive play that was the main 'theme' in the 4-2-4 of the 1970s Brazil.

Irregardless of how things work before for Brazil in 1970s and how things are supposed to work for Liverpool, one thing that I was made to realize was the post that introduced the idea of a "control tower" DM that the current Brazilian team plays with Lucas at the core of the entire team, which tries to emulate the playing style of the 1970s. The main function of that 1 DM is that Lucas will have to play from deep down (as far down as from the defense line) and start 'assisting' with the push with the AMs and the CFs (or CF in our 4-5-1 style) where the DM acts as the 'pusher' and the AMs act as the 'nodes'.

Confusing? Lucas versus Totenham, or was it Bolton, (2010) so to speak, where he gains the ball, presses forward, pushes the ball into one of the AMs, and let them break the defense wall. In the case where AMs can't, they pass the ball back to the "control tower DM", the DM will then hold the ball and push it to another AM to break through, and the entire cycle repeats itself. DM pass to AM, AM breaks or pass back to DM and holds it up and passes it to another AM, and repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat until the wall is broken.

As far as what the Gremio fan states, I also have developed (to my own understanding) of the current Liverpool pass-and-move game that King Kenny wants to achieve is not of the triangulation when it comes to Lucas' role but he will serve as the 'control tower' for every build up to any form of attacking play. Right from the DM.

The only reason as to why and how I see King Kenny plays Lucas almost similarly in that role is definitely not because that Lucas was the only man available (we spent a hell lot for many players come this season, and we have not replaced Lucas despite what others want us to think so) with any other signings of DM (with exception of Spearing where he's locally homegrown from our Academy ranks) that would replace nor to emulate Lucas' role.

If there's a person who knows WHO to lead an attack, Lucas would know, but as much as everyone can probably agree he's not the best passer, but that's the idea of the 'control tower DM', that is to control the flow and tempo of the game by setting up WHO gets the ball to lead the attack and acting as a rear-guard once the ball's passed forward in any case of the ball being pushed back to the DM to initiate new attack moves.

Still, I don't see quite how people may want to 'compare' our Lucas with the likes of Xabi Alonso, Xavi of Barca or other types of 'midfield bosses'.
But one thing that Rafa got it wrong (not by his choice, technically speaking), Roy got it worse (really he did) and King Kenny almost got it right is the selection of the 'deputy' that acts as the 'front man' for our DM to make his move. And I believe that Adam+Lucas, as evidently shown in some of the pre-season friendlies as well as last week's win over Arsenal proves that Adam+Lucas is a pairing that is worth considering as a backbone for an offensive orchestra. (remember, King Kenny builds his team from the striker to the defense, whereas Rafa Benitez does the groove entirely the opposite way)

So what say you?
*
credit to u. thumbup.gif
moodswingfella
post Aug 29 2011, 04:01 AM

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QUOTE(odengerrard @ Aug 29 2011, 03:22 AM)
superb article mate!
simply worth reading!
  thumbup.gif
*
feel like reading FM tips and guide now biggrin.gif

a good reading tho rclxms.gif
rushmode
post Aug 29 2011, 04:09 AM

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i believe credit need to be given to rafa for lucas progress. he and lucas both get stick from the press, pundits and own fans. everybody was screaming how lucas is not good enough and why does rafa keep him on the starting line up. almost no one have the faith in lucas like he did. too bad rafa's time is up before lucas matured in his position.

kenny also saw his potential and thank god for that. he was influential last season and carry on his form to this season. a weaker player would crumble after all the sticks that being thrown. not him though. he carry on and keep focus on football.
normeck
post Aug 29 2011, 06:17 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Aug 29 2011, 01:52 AM)
Yea... They gonna hate us for raiding them..Just like

Sunderland (hendo)
Newcastle (Jose+Carrol)
Blackpool (adam)
Villa (Downing)

hate us....

Yeap, i m still keeping that siggy. He remains my favourite player albeit with a little damage to the impression on how he left us. Grateful for what he did for us though....  smile.gif
P.S: Anyone can come up with a LUIS SUAREZ/ LUCAS LEIVA siggy for me?  biggrin.gif  laugh.gif
*
please no!!! they will leave the club like Torres and Insua!!!! hahahah
liverpool red
post Aug 29 2011, 07:45 AM

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Sorry for off-topic a bit but came accross this and I thought of sharin here, any fresh graduates lfc fans keen on workin for our shirt sponsors can check out this link:

http://www.jobstreet.com.my/jobs/2011/8/s/...14245.htm?fr=11

By the way, I'm not from SCB :-)

Duke Red
post Aug 29 2011, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(REDShaun @ Aug 29 2011, 01:08 AM)
the thing with us so far... hopefully in the coming future is to not go into other team's thread even when their down. offer support yes. but stomp on them no.

I can't talk much about the other teams fans but let it be that at least we here aren't that farked up.

the capitulation of Arsenal is another rough patch for them. they are a great team with great history. i am sure they will be back. My dad must be heartbroken today but then again a supporter of more than 45 years is not so easily shaken. smile.gif
*
Too many overly dramatic fans these days I must say. A couple of bad results and it's a travesty. 3 seasons with no title and it's the dark age. Think fans these days need to gain a little more perspective. Assuming that what they claim is true i.e. to be a fan for life (a term I take loosely these days given the people I've seen jump ship), then are a few bad results really a disaster? Now Hillsborough, that was a disaster. Bad results are but a mere blip in the bigger scheme of things. We won the Champions League in dramatic fashion back in 2005, 7 years ago! Still fresh in our minds though isn't it?

I've never resented Arsenal although I think Arsene Wenger has underachieved despite the club being in a healthy state financially. I've always felt he needed to take more risks and spend a little to turn them from nearly boys into champions. Defensively, they were all over the place and it didn't help they came up against an in-form Man Utd team.
SUSdemamkuning
post Aug 29 2011, 10:39 AM

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so who's coming? Poulsen to Arsenal?

I cant get these kind of jokes lately rclxub.gif rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
kazuki85
post Aug 29 2011, 10:44 AM

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You know come to think of it...Poulsen maybe useful for Arsenal for his experience and Denmark captain (if I'm not mistaken) and all...probably loan him there or something? Loan Joe Cole to them also seems like a good option. tongue.gif

And oh yeah, Harry is also interested in bringing Joe Cole to Spurs after Modric leaving to Chelsea which seems imminent....so there you go, all players will be happy to get some playing time.
REDShaun
post Aug 29 2011, 10:53 AM

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I think after all the Suarez, Adams, Henderson, Lucas and the rest getting praised, a really sound point taken from one of the greatest things I've seen over the games with LFC is Steward Downing.

He seems to have really made the lives of Suarez, Adam and the rest easy up in front. It's not because of his pacy runs up the field but the way he positions the RB and CB of the opposition teams. He floats and moves with more then just coincidence. He seems to pull the defenders to him leaving the field on the left for us truly open for Suarez or Enrique to get in. In truth I had my doubts on Downing earlier prior to his purchase but now I see why we bought him. He and Lucas are possibly the most important player in the field for us.

Can't wait for the next game, YNWA! smile.gif
madmoz
post Aug 29 2011, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Aug 29 2011, 09:16 AM)
Too many overly dramatic fans these days I must say. A couple of bad results and it's a travesty. 3 seasons with no title and it's the dark age. Think fans these days need to gain a little more perspective. Assuming that what they claim is true i.e. to be a fan for life (a term I take loosely these days given the people I've seen jump ship), then are a few bad results really a disaster? Now Hillsborough, that was a disaster. Bad results are but a mere blip in the bigger scheme of things. We won the Champions League in dramatic fashion back in 2005, 7 years ago! Still fresh in our minds though isn't it?
*
quoted for truth
RyanHo
post Aug 29 2011, 12:13 PM

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http://liverpool.theoffside.com/premier-le...s-v-bolton.html

a great article of lucas vs bolton. i cant get my mind off from lucas. brilliant play by him

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