Sure. But if people are desperate enough to move to Australia and to sucessfully get a job then that is what they must do. No point being a princess complaining about how hard is it to get jobs in Australia if you are not willing to change yourself. Its not as if these types of jobs pay less. In fact, most of these tradesperson jobs pays more than your typical accountant.

Tough times don't last. Tough people do.

Market is typically shit at the moment. Back in 2008, there was 9 to 10 times the demand for engineers compared to now. Now most positions typically have a good 200 applications each.

I'm in the OnG electrical + instrumentation field, specializing in project construction, completion and commissioning (C1 to C4) + EEHA. Generally a 1 trick pony.

Hey Justin. I've been thinking to PM for quite a while as I thought you would be the right person to ask.

1. I believe I'm not in the top scorer list. I'm now doing BBus & Com in Monash Malaysia, having a 70% & above distinction average. I do also have offer from UNSW now and probably UniMelb's also on its way. But it's unlikely I'm accepting either at the moment. ($$ problem) Anyway, my school does not adapt GPA system. All along I've heard the right GPA to stand a chance in securing an accounting & finance job would be 3.5GPA and above, which usually translates into how many percentage?

2. Well, unless I've $5 millions to put into business migration scheme for PR, else there is no way I can apply one now. I still have about 2.5 years to go till i complete my degree. Just a natural worrier who likes to plan things ahead though I know accounting role might cease from the SOL list.

I've done my fair share of researches as well. Everything goes with what you said. Networking, PR, Local Experiences are the 3 keys to look for a job in Australia market right now.

Glad to hear you eventually landed a job at PWC. How did you managed to find your current job out of all these challenges?

by the way, how/what do you think of the employability of someone holding a 485 Temporary Graduate Visa in the industry?

thanks for your time for sharing all the insights.

This post has been edited by @secret@: Mar 15 2015, 01:38 PM

I dunno about GPA requirement my friend, but I can tell you pretty confidently that if you do not accumulate enough internship experience and if you are not a top scorer, it is very unlikely any Big-4s or even mid-tiers will consider you at all. I said that because my Partner here said that in my face when we were having Manager's meeting and we were talking about recruitment. It is kinda brutal but that is only because everyone who look for a graduate job are with relevant experience before they graduate. They just raised the bar.

So to answer you question, yes possible but I personally think you need more than that.

About your PR question and the SOL, I have few answers to that: There is always Canada and NZ, consider that, though at the moment, Aus is more sophisticated market in terms accounting and finance. However, that might change in the future.

Considering your financial limitations and the fact that you are unlikely to get your PR as soon as possible, I will say it is alright and you should focus on building your career locally and move to SG or HK later (if you wish). As long as you have solid experience, the world is your oyster and you will be able to secure 457 visa and work in Aus. I have seen it happened before and it is possible. You just need relevant experience.

How did I get my job? I guess it is a combination of everything - I have a friend who worked there and he gave me an informal endorsement, I have the right skill set they needed in that market, I have a strong referral letter from my ex-employer, and I am a PR. Most of all, it is the right timing when they needed ppl and I impressed them during interview (just being lucky that they asked about things that I know). It is hard to pinpoint. Sometimes, you just need to wait for the right moment, there is no secret recipe for this, just luck and preparation.

As for your question about 485 - I have seen ppl being employed under 485 but very very limited. The one I saw is a Dean's list student from Melb Uni and he built strong network even before he started work. I might be wrong but if you do not have those qualities i mentioned, forget about it.

I hope I have not been discouraging but I think it is better to tell you the reality. Again, there is always other countries other than Aus, and there is always 457.

Cheers

All points noted and appreciated
Yes, I'll continue to build my portfolio stronger from extra-curriculum, internship, result, network etc. I believe opportunity is there for people who is well prepared and ready to take it.

Everything pretty much sounds discouraging to me at this moment. All the harsh and realistic facts are what I needed to hear especially coming from someone like you. I'm pretty dreamy myself and I tend to get over-optimistic about situation. But hey there is no giving up as long as Aussie laid-back lifestyle still exists. haha

Let's hope the industry gets better over time and soon....

If it is the Aussie laid-back lifestyle you are looking for, then my advice is not to work in Big-4, consulting firms or IBs, and do not work in Sydney and Melb, because contrary to the common belief, people work late here as well, esp in Syd and Melb. That is because situations are getting more competitive now and there are more.. Asians coming in which bring along their "strong" work ethics as well.

If you want a laid-back lifestyle, you should go to commercial and be an accountant. However, tendency of you being fired is likely because that is just the way business work here. One of the big advantage of working in Big-4s are slightly better job security. The job will most job security is the Big-4 banks, or so I heard.

It is not all that rosy here anyways. The engine of growth and the future lies with Asia, my friend. A lot of capable Aussies actually moved to HK and SG to work mainly because.. tax rate are lower and the quality of life is higher there (depending on how you interpret that, for some of them I know, that is what they say)

It is a funny world where we want to move there and the locals want to move away.

Cheers

Aged Care. U got lots of less worry.

Your observations regarding the job market here is largely correct. Seeing you have spent a considerable amount of time working in MY/SG and also in Australia, what is your take regarding the difference in working culture in these places? I know working in Big 4 means long hours and high pressure basically anywhere in the world but still there should still be some differences?

Hi there Caspersky,

Looks like you found my thread here

Each Big 4 has its own unique culture I think. For example, in terms of ppl culture, EY stands out (based on my exp in EY Msia, EY Aus and maybe EY SG, due to many of my friends working there), and PwC is very elitism (It is the same in Msia, SG and Aus too). I obviously dunno know Deloitte and KPMG because I never work with them before. Generally Msia and SG is pretty much similar.

Notwithstanding the individual firm's unique cultures, I think in Asia, there is a lot of expectation to self-learn. In Aus, ppl have been willing to spend time to train you and get you to speed, and they do things BY THE BOOK. So in that way, you learn the methodologies and the way to do things exactly according the best practice. Downside is that they really do not know how to be flexible when situation changes, they are book smart but not as street smart as.. well Asians.

Overall, in terms of friendliness, Malaysians are the most friendly of all. Followed by Australians and Singaporean in my own experience. Australian are nice to strangers but sometimes, they are nice as a matter of courtesy, unlike Malaysians who are generally genuinely nice to ppl. Singaporeans.. well, you know.

Working culture wise, I think bosses in Msia and SG are willing to give junior higher responsibilities (Meeting clients, lead a job) as compared to Aussies, where higher responsibilities tend to be allocated to higher lvl ppl such as Senior Mgr and Directors. As a result, you will see that in Asia, juniors work really hard and clocks overtime, whereas in Aus, Directors and Senior Managers did all the overtime and Junior get to go home slightly earlier. Aussies are more open in terms the company's strategy and they will involve all lvl of ppl periodically to talk about which client to target and how should we compete, which in Asia is only reserved to Mgrs and above.

In general, Aussies are willing to accept the fact that juniors can be technically stronger than Managers but in Asia, such scenario is perceived to be despicable. Aussies accept the fact that no one knows everything and it is perfectly okay if the junior knew certain things that Mgrs do not know. They are also obviously very aggressive in terms of claiming about things they know when in fact they only know the basic by Asian standard.

Oh yeah, although hard work and overtime permeates across different cultures, lunch hour and weekends are holy in Australian context. Unlike Malaysia and SG where bosses will just call you back to work during weekends. Comparatively speaking still, overtime is Aus is still milder compared to SG and Msia as ppl will strive to finish their work by 5. As result, when they work, they REALLY work. No tea breaks, no chit chats etc. In Msia and SG, we spend too much time talking and procrastinating in btw, that results in the need to work beyond 5.30. If you work in M&A or IB however, it is probably the same throughout the globe. But for the rest, there is slight difference.

I don't even know where to end but this potpourri of observations is what I can provide so far.

Hi all,

Would like to share my experience of getting a job in Melbourne.

A little background ,I am a UK Grad Mechanical Engineer with 10 years working experience in Msia c/w a PR

I was consider lucky and truly bless by God for being able to secure this job just after 1 week landing in Oz.

Use Seek.com extensively, i even started applying 3 months before arriving. Yes it did made me feel insecure and always make me ponder should i go over as when there is no response after applying for 30 jobs. I stayed focus and being determined , as there is nothing to lose. At most you lose your air tickets for flying thru and flow to Oz.

Once i arrived Melbourne and applied for an admin job for a particular industry which i had experience in for the past 10 years. It was a very low level job ( I was a Manger in Msia) , it was a clerk-admin job with 50k annual pay. I am willing to re-climb the ladder just to get back into the same experience industry i had. You have to take a step backwards in order to advance two steps ahead.

Hiring Manager call me the next day, offering me a Sales Manager post instead. As i am over qualified for the applied admin job. It was a big surprise to me and this pointed out that there are actually alot of hidden job market in Oz.

My observation that ,employers dont really prefer to advertise thier vacancy (cost and confidentiality reason ), they would prefer to use Contact Reference or Head Hunters - lesser hassle and look good for the company

Theses are a few pointers of how i secure my job.

1) Must have strong experience under your belt , you have to stand out among the rest. Being just an ordinary employee doesnt give you any plus point especially to a new migrant. - Start building a good profile in Msia , take up new task , new challenges , new targets.

2) Oz value your experience if you work with well establish Multi-National Company (MNC) company. ( i had 8 years experience with 3 different MNC company). If you are in some GM in a ABC sdn bhd , your experience are likely not recognize. Find an MNC to work with ,its even better with those company who have office set up or at least well known in Oz

3) Your communication or rather soft Skill. Speaking clean and simple English is good enough , you dont need to speak or sound like them and they wont expect you either. In fact they enjoy listening to our accent , just how we enjoy listening to theirs. You got to be an outgoing person or blunt if i may say.

4) Write up a good Australian format of Resume ( Our Malaysian style totally wont work)- I was grateful to have a friend in Melbourne who had worked as a recruiter for 10 year. My CV was revamp from 2 pages to 6 pages , it was so good that my employer didn't actually ask me any of the technical aspect as it was stated in my resume in a clear & understandable manner by using lots of Keywords. They just need to meet me up to know me more. - Appoint a Oz recruiter at fee to review your resume , it helps alot.

Yes, it wont be easy. But keeping an optimistic mindset can bring you much further than you ever expect. Take things at a time and try not to think too far , worrying about the future not only brings you no where. It actually brings your confident down coz there is nothing concrete to anchor on. I term this as self sabotaging.

Wishing the Best of luck to the guys out there looking for job in Oz. Stay strong

One thing I can say is a good cover letter can go a long way with the right people.

Australia is no different to Malaysia... high level (middle, senior mgmt and above) executives are busy and have no time to deal with small fish if they think it's not worth their time. Just think, if you were smack in the middle of your uni exams and I ask you to do this do that, what is your response. So for them, reading a chunky email from a stranger is the same feeling I would say. Unless they were particularly free at that moment.

But like some people, occasionally they are willing to come out (of their office) or invite you in to meet with them. Networking, as they say. Obviously they are doing you a massive favour as every minute you spend with them is valuable to you but costly to them. They are doing it out of kindness, and compassion, maybe they have gone through this before and know the feeling. Or they may be curious (also a good thing, but in this case sometimes they are wasting your time).

Also in Australia it is damn near impossible to score an internship if you're an international. There's too many PRs around. I pretty much gave up on internships. Many interns are immediately offered full time jobs halfway or towards the end of their short experience with the company. Whether they are super interns or not is a different story.

Some Big 4 accounting firms are pretty okay. At least from what I've seen. May be cyclical. Big 4 banks have a stronghold on the commercial market. But they should be careful, get too fat you'll need to cut eventually.

Good of you to share your experiences. I think EY looks pretty good too, KPMG looks nice on the outside, but otherwise they didn't really impress me. Not that I ever got very far with any of them. No exposure to Deloitte. PwC seems diverse enough.

Wouldn't say weekends are holy or that IBs are the only exception. Some management consultants, others in the finance industry may work weekends. Lots of other industries too. Generally professional services, and companies that make deals worth millions, have the potential for longer hours and some 6 day week work.

I think you made a good point which I think it is worthy of highlighting: Cover letters.

I am not sure if things have changed, but cover letters seems to be secondary in Asia whereas in Aus, it makes all the difference. And mundane, robotic cut and paste cover letter won't do you good, you need to show that you are an interesting person with a point of view in the cover letter in order to stand out. Most of all, you need to sell a BUSINESS CASE and a STORY to your existing CV in the cover letter. That is what it is all about.

Long story short, in addition to your technical skills, Aussies in general are also looking for interesting person to work with. If you manage to sell that interesting persona, you will be getting something.

I don't profess I know much about their mentality but in job hunting, that is the gist of it based on my job search experience. Even until today, I sincerely find that Australian think very differently in many ways which I can never understand. I know what they will do but I just dunno why on earth they do certain things sometimes. Having a go (aka try out new things) and being random seems to be in their culture.

Cheers

Hey Justin,

Yeah I figured this is a better place for what are discussing.

Agreed with what you said mostly. I guess working relationship is much simpler here and they separate work from personal relationship quite clearly. Also I found most of the people here tend to look at things more from a conceptual point of view and don't think about details. Too many times I've heard pretty talks at the meeting where everyone over-simplify things and make everything sounds simple and easily achievable, just because it makes everyone feel good. Just remember that they are better at making promises than actually delivering them.

But I also like that they are willing to share knowledge and resources unlike some stories I heard from my friends back home where people can be selfish and not share knowledge fearing that juniors would one day overtake them.

Cover letters are not going to work with most people. HR won't even bother. But a lot of job applications have long questions, and in those instances while I think a cover letter would not be the worst idea, it's probably going to be a little redundant and I doubt it'd even be read. But with the right person... if you get lucky, it will work.

As for personalities, being interesting, and having communication skills... I work with some pretty humorous, easygoing, smart people. But at the same time there are people who are the reverse. Rarely joke with you unless maybe you know them super intimately, and putting all those types of traits aside because they are a bit extreme, having only mediocre communication skills and language ability is a common denominator. Even though it is super competitive these days, some of these guys still filter through, amazingly. At the end of it though they are doing a pretty specialised or narrow job, takes a lot of mental focus and perseverance. Personality is very important but you need the other side of things too - personality is something some people can overlook I guess.

Kind of strange, the thought process of how people are hired. Obviously it isn't scientific but sometimes you just can't imagine they didn't have a better candidate to choose from. Not bashing or anything, just sharing thoughts.

What do you mean by random?

Hi Guys, I'll be moving over to Australia pretty soon, still struggling to land a job in the construction industry.
Would appreciate some advice on how to get my 1st employment in OZ

Hi guys, just arrive in Oz since 12 march. Found a job with luck after being here 12 days. But I didn't find it using the job sites and all that. I went to the company website, then just emailed the contract person directly. No cover letter used. But I guess that's my luck. Won't say the job is of the same level or high pay but good enough to make it for now. I haven't started yet with Easter coming. I'll only be starting after Easter.

what job is that? title?

do u understand the construction regulation in australia?
what Malaysia construction doesnt necessarily applies here in australia.

on the other hand unless you are from singapore.

its a compliance body testing role. the name is Testing officer.
basically I'll be doing test and suggest corrections in a compliance lab.

its amazing you secured a role in 12 days , good luck in the future.