Hello guys,

As you can read from the title, I've a dilemma choosing to further study PhD or to work.

I'm 27 years old this year and already completed my Master's degree (research mode) from IPTA and currently waiting for graduation. For your information, I'm the type that like to study and have no problem to conduct academic research. I want to further PhD but I've heard that it's important to work to get working experiences. Some will say that PhD is useless when you do not have any working experiences. I also get some comments from my friends (who already working after they got Bachelor degree) that PhD won't help me to earn more without working experience. I will also treated as freshy just like other Bachelor degree student when entering job market.

Well, most people have the concept that when they have a PhD, they must able to earn more. This is different from my view that the reasons I want to get a PhD are:

1. To get a sense of accomplishment
2. To achieve my dreams
3. To gain more knowledge in my field
4. Love to study and do research

And to be honest, to earn more money is the last thing in my mind when I think of PhD.

So guys, what's your opinion on this matter? What is your say on this issue?

Appreciate it if you guys can spend sometime to reply.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 14 2011, 01:33 AM

Hello there,

I myself is going to venture into PHD soon, coming this october 1st. However, I am just 23 years old, and I guess this make my choice much easier than in your case.

Non the less, according to what you listed out as the reason why you decided to obtain your PHD, I think, you ought to do it.
It also seems that , you don't have much concern other than working experience.

Well, I guess that's not a problem at all. While studying for PHD, you'll get allowance. It might not be that much but it is enough for now. When you start to work as a PHD, your salary will be much higer.

Industrial researcher will be pain abt 8 k, and lecturer is about 6 k. And those are only for starter....

Thanks for the input. First of all, congrats to be accepted for phd candidate. Do you skip Masters degree and straight taking phd?

I don't have much problem with financial because I'm quite confidence that I can get a sponsor or scholarship if I further PhD. y only concern now is about the valuable working experience that I will missed out if I continue phd. If I do phd, I will do full time and concentrate 100% on it. This is because some phd students that I know who doing part time took a long time to complete due to work commitment.

For the salary, I don't really bother how much I get paid when I have phd.

Yes, I am doing fast track programme.
Which Uni u from?
I am doing it in USM

If salary not your cocern, well, my friend, you are 200% set and ready for PHD!

U got like 50 or 60 years a head after PHD? The years of PHD that u can use to build working experience is not that big effect ..

I'm not from famous ipta, it's unimas in sarawak. I'm not sure which uni to apply for phd, if I decided not to go back to unimas.

My friend said USM is not bad. USM is one of the research uni in malaysia if I'm not mistaken.

The point is, I'm already 27. PhD need at least 3 years or more to complete. By that time I alraedy 30+ and haven't got any work experience. I'm quite worry about this thing.

What is it that you want to do after you get your PhD?

If you're looking at academic/research work, then it would help you. If you're looking to get into the corporate world, unless if what you're studying is really technical/specialised, the PhD may not be of much use.

I've seen people take part time research degree whilst working. Tough, but it's doable.

Very much agree with you...

I'm not the type that like teaching but I'm mostly interested in research. I'm in HRM field. So I doubt this field need phd in corporate world, unless become an academician.

I'm did consider about doing part time study though. But I'm lean toward doing full time.

Sigh...very difficult to make a decision...

Thanks for your comment.

if you take PHD just to involve with academics related job then go for it but if you wanna find job from industry seems quite hard to get job bcoz not all company will hire worker with a high level education qualification. most of them only seek a bachelor degree holder only unless companies that conducting RnD.

I have posted this before, and I think I should post it again.

I'm not sure what do you mean by "work experience". Most people think of PhD as nothing more than doing academic research, I disagree, it is so much more than that. PhD in itself is an "experience", a "lifestyle". It is far more difficult and challenging than your ordinary job (and much lower pay), but the "experience" and "life lessons" that you get out of it will serve you for lifetime.

It is important to recognise the PhD programme as a training process, a hard-core training programme that goes on for 4-5 years.

What you will get out from PhD (just a few things that come to my mind):
- the capacity to think and conceive original/novel ideas
- highly developed analytical skills & capable of organising and integrating data from many different sources
- problem-solving skills
- capacity to synthesise arguments logically (while acknowledging differing viewpoints)
- ability to design complex studies/projects
- ability to conduct literature search and apply the (theoretical) knowledge for practical purposes
- presentation/communication skills (both verbal & written - how to convince other people of your ideas)
- teaching/demonstration skills (how to explain/convey complicated ideas to laypeople)
- efficient time management and productive workstyle (often handling multiple projects at the same time, and thus organisation skill is very important)
- ability to cope with extreme physical and mental stress, all the while maintaining a productive state
- being used to hard work and unusual working hours (staying past midnights and work during weekends are not uncommon)
- and most importantly (I think), getting used to uncertainty and failures

and all these are in addition to the knowledge and foundation of your own project/specialised niche.

These are transferable skills that apply not only in your specialised field but to a broad range of tasks in your work and lifestyle. While I don't mean you can't attain these skills elsewhere, these are the skills that you will be forced to learn in order to survive. It is definitely not an easy path to tread, and it spans at least 3 years. You will have to think carefully about this. I know some very intelligent people dropped out, because they can't cope with the extreme stress, failures and uncertainty.

Depends on what sort of "experience" do you mean, yes, after PhD you most probably will start out together with other fresh graduates holding a degree, but do you really think that you will be less capable that those inexperienced fresh grads, after years of intensive training? Often (and depending on your line of work), postdocs advance much quicker, not because of their titles, but because of the output they are capable of generating. An analogy I like to use is to think of a seasoned athlete and a casual jogger, both begin at the same point, but who can endure longer? (Obviously I don't mean all PhDs, there will always be bad postdocs everywhere).

Age is an issue, of course, because the pressure that will be put on you and the much lower stipend will be difficult for people with more burdens. That's why many people who planned to do a PhD after a few years of work first don't end up doing it, because of the much lower pay (easily half the salary you will already be earning) and also their increasing responsibilities (eg. getting married, mortgage etc.) It may sound like a good idea to get a few years of "working experience" first, but many people for these practical reasons can't really go back anymore.

Something to think about.

Unlike in developed countries (and that includes Singapore), PhD in graduates in Malaysia mostly work in the academia, doing teaching and research. Unless your area of expertise is of high commercial value, there isn't much scope for PhD holders in the commerical/private sector. The focus on research has not reach a stage where PhD graduates are in good demand yet. That's a reality you'd have to face - like it or not, chances are, you'll end up doing teaching and research in the acadamic field.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 14 2011, 01:02 PM

Um that means Singapore has more job opportunities for PhD holders or the other way round? Sorry I am a bit confused by the statement.

Of course there is more scope in Singapore for reseachers/PhD holders.

I agree with your statement. From my observation, most of local companies tend to hire a bachelor degree holders rather than graduates with higher qualifications. From my opinion, they are not going to waste their financial resources to hire master/phd graduates when they know that the job can be performed by bachelor degree graduates. In other words, master/phd graduates are overqualified.

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Added on August 14, 2011, 2:54 pmI refer work experience as the knowledge, skills, etc that I can gain when I enter the job market. I haven't gone through phd, that is why I always thought it is just merely conducting research and writing thesis just like masters by research. Maybe I'm wrong.

From my experience during my masters by research, I realised that intelligence alone is not enough. It must comes with the strong motivation and strong will to succeed. If I'm going to take PhD, I'm sure I'm prepared for it. Basically I will repeat the same process again in conducting the research just like masters by research. It just that I've to do it in phd standard where it is more rigorous.

I don't think I will be less capable than the fresh graduates, but it will be on par with them. The HR manager will still considered phd holders without experience as fresh grads and the hr manager might only hire based on the performance during the interview.

Yeah my parents said the same thing that once I work, it will be tough to go back study again years later. I always compared myself to other friends that started working right after they got their bachelor degree. They already loan new car, new house and earn money to get married in near future...while I still considered as a student. Seems like I can't catch up. In other words, I kind of jealous...lol

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Added on August 14, 2011, 2:59 pmThat's make sense. My uncle's sons went to Singapore once they completed their PhD, citing that there have more job opportunies for phd holders.

Actually, I don't mind to be in academia as I like involve in research projects.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 14 2011, 02:59 PM

There is hardly any research if you were to join the IPTS's. It's teaching mainly, understandably so as they are business-oritentated.

With the IPTA, you'll have to accept that a certain group of people gets all the priority and you have to put up with the race-based policies. Again, you have to do both teaching & research. It's not up to you to choose to do only research.

This country doesn't provide incentives for people to pursue studies to PhD level unless you are in the privileged group.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 14 2011, 05:24 PM

I also understand about the race issue and I'm not in the privilege group. So my chances to get in IPTA is low. For IPTS, the teaching hours are at least 20 hours per week and yes you're right, they focus on teaching and they prefer to hire lecturers with teaching/industrial experiences. Lecturer in IPTA need to lecture, do research as well as involve in admin work.

What kind of incentives you're referring about?. For IPTA, I can get scholarship (not student loan) or sponsorship that cover the semester fee, exam fees and monthly allowances. Like my master's degree, the fees are fully covered by the uni.

The incentives of being adequately rewarded for having obtained a PhD. You'd more likely get a better income with 3 years of work experience rather than with a doctorate degree which takes the same time to complete. Job openings would also be much more limited.

Hmm, from my opinion I'm quite doubtful can get a better income with 3 years of work experience. Most companies won't simply raise salary every year, unless it's govt sector.

I am 27 too, and am currently in the first year of fast track PhD program in IPTA.
Although I have one year++ industrial experience before I further for my degree, 3.5x CGPA, searching for a job is not easy, especially when applying for the 'gender-bias' position.
In Malaysia, the route after PhD is only academic and some (very very few) companies which specifically asking for phd holders. Anyway, since all IPTAs are 'competing' to be APEX (research uni), it won't be hard to find a lecturer job after your phd, or so I heard...

i m doing MAster ...but unfortunately ...i start lost interest in my project ...my Gf feel no future ...bcos i dunhave $....sad ....But my family wish me to get the phD"Dr".....haiz

This post has been edited by honn: Aug 14 2011, 11:58 PM

So you work 1st before you started study bachelor degree? Do you aim to be a lecturer after phd? Do you have teaching experience? Hope you don't mind to share.

Do you know what is the factors that causes you to lose interest in your research project?

Where do you study? Actually you can get a sponsorship or scholarship quite easily if you're doing research-based masters in IPTA.

it's bcoz of your gf or what? like me,my gf's family really has a bad perception about continuing study. they think if i have a master degree or phd i will earn more than degree holder if working on industry. so many times i told them that i want to continue study bcoz i love it so much not bcoz i want become rich but they still thinking negative..

I believe it's due to an old thinking that the higher we study, the higher professional position and money we can get.

Even some of my friends who are at the same age with me and got a bachelor degree think that way

TS,

There are AGE DISCRIMINATION in Malaysia. So, unless you are looking for a job that NEED your Phd, why would ANYONE hire a 30 years old fresh grad with NO EXPERIENCE?? In fact, your CV / Resume will be thrown to trash can without a look because people will ASSUME that you want high salary.

THINK carefully...

Dreamer

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Added on August 15, 2011, 8:38 amseanwc101,

If NOT, why people do IT?? That is COMMON SENSE..

For FUN?? A person could use that TIME and MONEY to travel around the world or do something else...

And, please DO NOT give me BS about wanting to learn more. At this day and age, a person could self study almost everything. The ONLY DIFFERENCE is you get a piece of paper by going to a university.

Now, if a person is NOT CAPABLE of self study, that person has NO BUSINESS doing a Phd.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 15 2011, 08:38 AM

I second this.

Unfortunately what I've observed in Malaysia, people with PHD tends to become an academician towards the end. Position for researcher not to say none, it is there, but very limited. If you are planning to be a lecturer or academician, I guess PHD is a way to go.

PHD is also my dream. I have been working for almost 2 years now in oil and gas industry and I tried hard to get a sponsorship but so far no luck.

The old thinking I'm talking about is they might think study until phd level will guarantee to get a better job and salary. This is not always the case.

I think you should start thinking of self-funded phd.

simple,job experience my fren...

nowadays,grade alone wont secure your place in a company
working experience is important, trust me

when you have an experience it will be easier for you to cntinue your phd later on and even catch your job back after finishing you PHD

just my 2 cent

u are totally wrong dreamer.. if u mean bout something readable subjects like bussiness,management,etc then someone can learn alone by himself.but what about something that need a lot of instruments to make research like engineering,medic,science? u still think they will buy all instruments needed and do self learning? its not about trying to get a piece of paper by universities.

PHD is not cheap

For TS, towards the end I think it depends on what you want to do in future. Think carefully.

For me, PHD is my dream and something I really want to do for myself. And after that lecturing will be good eventho I am more to research area. But even with PHD it doesn't hold you to do research at the same time right? You can apply for research grant and try to do the research you want to do.

Just my two cents.

That's what some people told me. But to apply the work experience in phd is another issue. If I chose to work 1st, I'll try to do part-time phd in the future. Can't do full-time because I might have commitment to pay car and house loans.

That's true. Come to think of it, one of the factors I can't decide to continue phd or work 1st is because I'm not really sure what I wanna do in the future. Hmm, I supposed to have a good planning already since I'm already 27 this year

What you mean by "even with PHD it doesn't hold you to do research at the same time"?

Yeah, I know what you meant, now I already have commitments, cars etc. But I think as long as no babies involves then it will still be ok

I mean even if you have your PHD, even you lecturing, you still can do research. It is not all about lecturing only. There is a lot of grant out there for you to apply and do research based on your interest. Means you are lecturing and do research at the same time. And you have your students to support you in your research?

Yes, lecturer job is not just lecturing but also involve in research, admin work, etc. especially in IPTA. For IPTS, lecturing will be the top priority though. But it seems like not easy to get hired in IPTA for non bumi. IPTS will be the best bet but to tell you the truth, I don't really into teaching as I feel I'm not good in giving a "speech" in front of audience (students). Academic research is fine to me though.

yeah, so I guess you just need to focus on your priority now? think carefully weather you want to work or just continue PHD. Both comes with pros and cons

Good Luck TS

Hi,

1) We are talking about phd here.

2) I am Engineer with 20+ years of working experience. Most learning by engineering do not need instrument.

Dreamer

yes,i know its about phd. phd need to do research and write a thesis right? what kind of engineering field you involved?

krizalid88,

IT/Datacom / Telecom...

Dreamer

I think you are mis-informed here. In a full university status IPTS (let's not talk about colleges or uni-colleges) the teaching hours per week is considerably lesser than 20 hours. I would say average about 8-12 hours, and that includes lab supervision.

Master (research mode)/PhD need to do research and thesis. For the pure sciences, they need to go to lab and use the lab's instruments to conduct their research. I'm in the applied sciences also need to conduct a research in organisations.

Oh really? That means the teaching hours between public and private is more or less the same. How about research?

If you are hardworking, you can focus all the non-teaching hours to research. Less admin duties if you dont hold high posts. Downside is, some may find the comfort zone too cozy.

The public is notorious for giving poor pay increments.
A lot can be achieved in three years if you perform well in the private sector.
Anyway, how high can the income rise for teaching IPTA/IPTS? There is a ceiling, probably 10K? 15K?
In other sectors, the sky is the limit especially if you rise to top management positions or if there is opportunity for you to venture on your own. Would there be such opportunity in the academic field? Probably only if you have the expertise which is much sought after in the private sector.

This post has been edited by tehtmc: Aug 15 2011, 09:22 PM

Yes I worked after my diploma thinking that "diploma is enough for me, I don't need to further study anymore", but the real world prove me wrong (sort of, but do bear in mind most of my diploma coursemates who never go for degree are doing great in their job now, so I think it's people problem).
I did not aim to be a lecturer, it's just seems like being a lecturer is the only resort when you get a phd, in Malaysia. There's near zero company out there which is really looking for a phd holder, because they require more of experience than academic qualification. Plus, the companies do not have enough resource to support their own employees to conduct research, so normally they will look for MOU/MOA with universities to conduct the research for them, with some agreeable payment and resource.
I don't have teaching experience in front of a class, but I do have a lot of 'teaching' experience among my coursemates...lol

This is a 'soalan cepu emas' whenever I asked about 'PhD vs Work' to my prof/lecturers/etc:"What do you want to do/be later?" The pattern of answer is: If engineer - degree is enough; If lecturer - you need phd nowadays; If you want to proceed phd - set your mind to become lecturer...

I would like to recommend you this comic: http://www.phdcomics.com/, just to give you some idea what's the postgraduate/phd life is...
I second that.

For seanwc101 - That's why I was in the same struggle/dilemma too after graduate from Degree. Even if I go out now with a Degree's cert, I still have to fight with fresh grad who is younger than me or the same age group who has much more working experience than I am.

Not sure about that. Hopefully some lecturers can answer that.

I do agree that postgrad is mostly needed in ipta/ipts in this country. So If you planning to work in this country, you'll probably become a lecturer? Seems like no choice. Or you want to work abroad which has more choices for phd holder?

Thanks for the link. Now I know the real meaning of PhD...

yes, you are totally right..even if doing post phd also still need a lot of instruments to do research.

For the salary wise - IPTA has a standard rate, but I heard my uni (universiti malaysia perlis)'s salary is slightly higher than other IPTA. IPTS depends on the institute itself, different IPTS has different rate (my lecturer told me this)

Future prospect, honestly I gonna see where my fate/jodoh will bring me LOL. But mostly probably will go academic, there's no other way that I see.

It depends on the topic your're working on and the scope, and also the research funding.

In HRM field phd will only lessen your chance to get a job in the private sector

The easiest job or maybe i should say the only job: for you after u get your phd is lecturer

Seems like u have to problem in getting your phd since your heart is already set to it. You have no goals or ambitions about your future then might as well set lecturer as your ambition

Ya, in this field, I think masters degree is more than enough if I want to get a corporate job. I've no problem with PhD but I'm clueless what I supposed to do after that. If I'm firm with my ambition to be a lecturer, no doubt I will continue phd without hesitation. I'm not into teaching because I've problem performing in front of people and I'm not the type that very good in explaining something to other people.

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Added on August 23, 2011, 2:29 pmIn Unimap, we can apply lecturer post with masters degree or need phd qualification? Just wanted to know.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 23 2011, 02:29 PM

In order to be more marketable after PhD is that you have to get a Quality PhD.

If you intend to work in academic, try to publish as many paper in top rated journal. In this day and age it will give you an edge in applying for academic position.

If you want to go into industry, then try to get patent/copyright registered during your PhD study. The better your patent/copyright then you will get more chances into industry.

For social sciences then you need to make yourself more visible by introducing theorems/ideas into the right forums/journals/etc. If any company buy into the idea that you're propagating (original ideas that also give you PhD) you will get a chance into the corporate sector.

If you're run of the mill PhD then you will find very hard to get a decent job with a PhD kind of pay. Also getting a degree in Malaysia admittedly will not give you extra points when competing with other PhD holders getting their degree from a first world country.

Mind elaborate on the quality PhD issues there? Any recommendations on the quality PhD that has to do with biosciences? What is the career prospects for bioscience PhD holder?

Know any quality and reliable sites to do research on this issue, please share generously here.

Thank you.

Hi Dreamer,
I got no idea about your engineering field, but if you are in my field, doing postgrad is a must.
There is no where a degree holder can perform troubleshooting without having enough experiences in the lab.
Even the application specialist in our country required master and preferably PhD holders, in my field.

FYI, in your language, most of my work is dealing with programming a gene without debugger, inside a new chassis (bacteria host), using Quaternary system (DNA: A,T,G,C).

Sure you can do that? Come to my lab.


Totally agree. As an engineer to study a microarray system, and then teach me how to use it.

Sean,
If I were you, and if I got a chance to do a PhD, I just do it without hesitation. Having a PhD means you are more well trained in handling complex issues. In fact, postgrad studies trains you management as well: datelines, progress report, grant management, grant "digging" and keep yourself updated with latest literature.

If a company tells you that you are lacking of working experience, they definitely want to "push down" your salary.
I used to attend a sales-job interview, and the HR interviewer who got no idea about my studies, repeatedly told me I do not have working experiences for the "N"th times.
I can't stand it, I asked her "how do you define working experience? If you are saying 'working', I do had experiences doing some other things like hotel receptionist. IF you are talking about relevant working experiences, I wish to know what sort of skills you are referring. I am confident to say I know your company's product very well because I am in this field for a long time, and I done much evaluation on similar product as well. Does that counts, if not, then what?" She kept silence.

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Added on August 23, 2011, 4:57 pmFor biosciences, a Quality PhD: If you got at least 4 publications in tier 1 journal, you are considered one of the "Pro" in your field. Try to publish a "Nature" or "Science" journal.

@TS: read this: http://www.nature.com/news/specials/phdfuture/index.html


This post has been edited by adrian1984: Aug 23 2011, 04:57 PM

Thanks for the info, adrian.

I see that you are a Proteomic and Molecular Biotechnologist. So I assume that what you studied has got to do with bioscience. From the way you say it, I presumed that you are a phd holder right now. May I know which university you went for further studies?

What you said above is very true. From a conference I attended by biotechcorp a year before, the experts there were saying its difficult for bioscience degree holders to secure a decent job that has got to do with bioscience as they have yet to master the revelant skills needed for the profession. The most relevant is only lab assistant.

I myself am a biotechnology undergraduate in one of the IPTA entering 2nd year soon. Any recommendation for education institutions if one wants to do further studies in these fields? Which study fields that are in demand in the market now.

Lastly, what can a student of this field do to increase his employability and value? Which platform can one go to do research about recent news in this industry?

Your reply is deeply appreciated.

Thank you

It depends on the post vacancies, and it should be applied to all uni too. Of course, PhD will be an added advantage.

I'm aware about the advantages of publications in top rated journal. I've just submitted my first manuscript to an international journal, not a top rated journal though. I plan to get another paper published in a better journal in near future.

I'll only able to study in IPTA, judging from my financial power. If I wanted to do phd overseas, one method is to become a lecturer first with master's degree (some new uni accept lecturer with this qualification), then apply for study leave to do phd in a better rank uni. That is what I noticed with lecturers nowadays. Become lecturer and then apply study leave to study overseas. I'm not sure it's easy or hard to apply though.

Unfortunately most people think PhD is not considered as a working experience or a training for future job. I've read that in some countries employers deem PhD as part of the working experience or some sort of training.

Ya, I agree they wanted to push down the salary. Another issue is some interviewers might use "overqualified" excuse as a way to reject our application. They might say like "What for we hire you with masters/phd qualification when we know bachelor degree holder can perform the job well". Another is interviewers might assume that we won't work for them in the long run because with our high qualification, we will always on the hunt of better prospects/higher salary jobs.

So did you secured that sales-job at the end? Are you a Phd candidate now?

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Added on August 24, 2011, 12:01 amI've read in this forum that some universities only wanted min phd qualification for lecturer position.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 24 2011, 12:01 AM

You'll gain experience by studying PhD, just that your experience is in researching but not working. Which one is better is up to yourself.

And it would be stupid if you take your PhD cert and compete with degree holder with same job, since you are a qualified researcher its best you stick to research field or teaching. In either case you can quite nice pay within few years, an IPTA senior lecturer already have 4.5K salary and at least 1.4K untaxable allowance, not to mention tons of other government servant benefit.

I myself is doing PhD in UM and they already offer scholarship up to 3.5k per month. This way you can concentrate on your research without having to worry about financial problem.

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Aug 24 2011, 01:24 PM

wow scholarship rm3.5k?

from UM or MOSti 1?

Most unis will grant you PhD with 2 refereed journal articles and some university doesn't even require you to publish. Therefore your research will not get another opinion beside those at the university and thus considered as run-of-the-mill PhD (just enough to graduate).

PhD with lots of publication/patent/published work is considered better then 'normal' PhD and will give you extra points in the job application process. The number of publication vary and it will be related to the journal ranking.

Ur taking the MyBrain15 program aa mate?

Yes, some, especially APEX uni (RU aka research universities). Anyway, if you choose academic route, getting a phd is kind-of a must and sooner-or-later thing. THEN another few decades of fighting your way towards assoc. prof., prof etc...

IPTS (not sure how many, but some) hires lecturers with Master's degree, at least some of my friends are (who is not a phd yet)

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Added on August 24, 2011, 4:40 pmMyBrain gives below 3k. Uni SLAB/SLAI usually provides that amount of money.

This post has been edited by Huey_nee: Aug 24 2011, 04:40 PM

Univeristy Malaya Brightspark program

http://brightsparks.um.edu.my/?modul=Progr...han=@_Phd_Level

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Aug 24 2011, 04:41 PM

Hi Mr bashlyner.

I browsed thru the website already. I have to say this scholarship is really appealing compared to others in the local scene. With the decent allowances and fees' exemption if one does the postgrad studies in UM, the recipient can really focus in his academical endeavor without much distractions.

May I know what field are you studying right now? What are the responsibility entailed in the contract; Do you have to supervise the works of bachelor and master degrees, conduct at least 3 seminars in the uni in a year, publish the number of research papers required by the contract and etc? You have to fulfill all these obligation altogether? What else you have to do beside the ones stipulated in the contract?

Thank you.

Most people doing PhD are under scholarship and paid in the form of stipends. Yes, the pay is really low, but many people survived it. Unless you are the type of person who waste a lot of money on meaningless entertainment, and expensive meals, I fail to see how you can't survive the living cost overseas if you are thrifty enough (which is what many of us poor students do).

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Added on August 24, 2011, 9:19 pmI fail to see any reason why "researching" is not considered as "work experience."

Do remember that being able to finish a PhD project within 3-4 years speak a lot more about a person than anyone who does an ordinary job for the same amount of time.

In order to survive you will have to learn how to work efficiently and often under intense pressure, organise and plan your work schedule usually involving multiple projects/tasks to get the most out of a limited timeframe (while at the same time integrating and analysing tons of data pouring in from all sides). These are transferable skills, and together with your presentation skills (both written & verbal), analytical skills as well as argument synthesis learned from your PhD can be easily applied to broad areas of your life. These skills will serve you for lifetime, provided you take the opportunity get the most out of your PhD.

This post has been edited by tester: Aug 24 2011, 09:21 PM

My research field is related to Information Technology and Education, the research involve study and developing an Adaptive E-learning System.

I cant tell you what I actually have to responsible for since I just started my PhD this month and they haven't bank in my money because they need time to process it.


Here is the list of requirement and KPI for me as stated in their offer letter:

Tuan dikehendaki:

1) terlibat dengan aktiviti penyelidikan di Universities yang dipilih;

2) menghadiri kursus yang ditetapkan oleh Universities bagi tujuan peningkatan sahsiah

And the KPI are same as statedthe brightspark website


Two of my friends already pursue their study for 6 months and according to them you need to attend a course regardless you are BrightSpark candidate or not, other than that no extra course or seminars required by BrightSpark unit so far. Most of the time you'll deal with your supervisor, your supervisor is actually the one who ask you join seminars or any courses, as well as assist in supervision at the Bachelors and Masters Level, if he busy he probably will ask you help him.

All the other KPI related to publication have to be followed strictly since nowadays IPTA keep competing in publishing papers.

That's all I know so far, hope it'll help you, my advice is get a good supervisor.

If you are really interested to get PHD, it will be better if you can get some working experience for the study as you will need it for your studies. If you don't have any working experience, it is hard for you to be marketable as your experience might not tally with your qualifications, you might not get the desirable salary too.

Research can be done by your own or through the people that are under you (like my lecturers that are pursuing PHD, they delegates their research paper for us to do), so researching cannot be considered as work experience because there are chances the work is not by your own. Except that, working experience includes everything or most things where it cannot be found in the research, it is all about survivability in the community.

Yes truly agree of that. In fact, you really need a good supervisor if you want to pursue PhD (according to my supervisor who had the supervisor from hell when he did his phd). It's kinda a matter of life and death if you ask me.

My lecturer told me about this BrightSpark programme too, I recommend my friends who are doing their postgraduate research in UM to consider it, but they say there's a long list of terms and conditions.

job need experience
experience need job

yeah..its twisted .really

Yea the T&C is a lot so its depend on how you gonna live your PhD life, with those T&C you might be more motivated but less time to enjoy postgraduate life.

Since my target is finish within 3 years and I've plan to stay in local U for few years so I take the scholarship, if you plan to go oversea or other private university after your PhD then better take other scholarship with less T&C such as Skim Biasiswa University Malaya (less amount of monthly allowance of course )

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Aug 25 2011, 02:00 PM

A question here, how do you know the supervisor you found is a good one or not? Looking through the research she or he had made so far? Ask for opinion from other lecturers?

Which platform can I get the review regarding the supervisor I'm interested in?

I know my supervisor is good because I've been taught by him since first year in same faculty, and my other friend's also recommend him

If you are outsider, your best bet is go through their research, and get review from student instead of lecturer ( as many lecture involve in office politics they might mengutuk each other)

For lecturer CV University Malaya you can refer this website http://umexpert.um.edu.my/cv_search_page.php

Please be noted that the quality of lecturer isn't proportional to number of publication, some lecturer who able to publish ridiculous amount of papers might involve in unethical/illegal activity include buy/steal other student's work, force other people to put his name in publication etc. I know a bangla lecturer in Engineering Depeartment of UM able to produce more than 30 papers within a year, that's average 1 papers per 10 days, so ridiculous

For student review you'll have to go through FB or forum, its best that you could find postgrad student who under some lecturer as they should be able tot provide accurate review.

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Aug 25 2011, 02:16 PM

Taking PHD is just like u are looking for a job. Can you see ur future in PHD/job? if yes, y not continue?
If plan to stay in the acdemic field, of course PHD is very important.
To me, u are a person who should take PHD. Because, money is the last thing in ur mind. Some ppl who are pursuing PHD give up half way because of peer pressure. In 5-6 years of study for PHD, ur friends might be earning alot ady. buy cars and buy house. If you are not affected by that, i think its okie.
Correct me if i'm wrong, i think ur research experiences can consider as working experiences. =) and ur salary won't be the same as a degree holder.
Go for PHD, get ur satisfaction and go ahead with ur dreams. just to inspire you, i have a lecturer who built a research centre from nth to millions of research fund in 5 years after he get his PHD.

For Masters by research and PhD in IPTA, the thesis will be evaluated by one or two external examiners (lecturers from other universities) before viva voce.

I need to pay my bachelor's degree student loan and give money to parents as well. I'm not the type that spend much money on unimportant stuff. In my uni, master's degree get rm1,400 per month and phd is rm1600.

UM got its own scholarship for students pursuing phd overseas?

You can't judge your supervisor by the quality and amount of his/her research. You need to see his/her attitude as well, which is almost impossible to comprehend unless you've working under/with him/her. For example, does the supervisor always on time? Does he/she the type that keeps promise? Does he/she supportive? Does he/she the type that always delaying students work? etc.....

No matter how good the supervisor in producing top quality research, you'll still get a lot of headache if the supervisor always busy, out of office, delay evaluating your work, took more than 1 week to reply your email, think his/her idea is the greatest, ask you to do crazy research, etc. At the end, you'll forever can't grad.

You can PM me for more info.

I actually rejected the job offer. The company doesn't impress me. After all, I got a few other offer.


Another Brightspark in UM, spotted. PM me and we come out for tea... I'm not involved in the program.

Do R.A. for a few months, quietly talk to their students...

This is a million dollar advice

Wow, by taking brightspark scholarship means you are confident that you can produce at least 1 ISI paper per year? Taking reviewers' feedback, correction, resubmission into account, you should only have 6 month per year to prepare the papers. Would you mind telling me who's your supervisor? I am thinking of doing postgrad in UM as well.

This post has been edited by wobuzhidao: Aug 25 2011, 07:39 PM

I know it wasn't easy but it's a challenge worth taking, normal postgraduate student could publish 3-5 papers along the duration of their PhD study just that it might not be Tier 1 or Tier 2, I think if I put more effort to make the papers look good it is achievable.

I'm under Faculty Of Computer Science and Information Technology UM, my supervisor's CV http://umexpert.um.edu.my/papar_cv.php?id=AAAJxnAAQAAAGEjAAL

This is another good lecturer, my friend who under his supervision get to go UK for 6 months attachment http://umexpert.um.edu.my/cv_papar.php?id=...370d5a567d142e4

Anyway which field are you interested with?

Will PM you after I bek to KL after raya, nice to know you

I'm not sure about this, but I know for past few years UM had send many lecturer who having Master Degree to UK to study for PhD, if you are an PhD student in UM you might get chance to attach to oversea universities for a certain period if your supervisor pull the string for you, or you propose to the faculty they might let you.

This post has been edited by bashlyner: Aug 25 2011, 08:11 PM

That must be SLAB/SLAI scheme, not a scholarship for student. The lecturer with masters degree has a paid study leave to further study overseas. Once PhD is completed, the lecturer need to go back to UM to teach for at least several years based on the SLAB/SLAI contract. Many lecturers in my faculty already sent to study overseas under this scheme.

By the way, u know how much phd student will get from the Skim Biasiswa University Malaya?

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Added on August 26, 2011, 1:17 amThanks bro for your encouragement. To say that I'm totally not affected by friends is a lie. Sometimes I did compared myself to my close friend, who is now working after completed bachelor degree. He got a stable job, car and house already and in the near future he will build his own family. I know it's not a wise thing to always compare this and that but it's a human nature to do that. If I do PhD, I can get a scholarship that can cover my study and daily expenses.

Today (technically yesterday), my supervisor asked me if I got plan to do PhD or not and he offered to supervise me for phd. He has very good working attitude and punctual. Will discuss further with him next month.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 26 2011, 01:22 AM

If I remembered correctly SBUM for PhD student is RM2000 per month while Master student is RM1500 per month

MyBrain scholarship give RM2300 per month but you need to stay in Malaysia for 5 years, however you are free to work with any Malaysia company or institute.

Each scholarship have its pros and cons, it's a No Pain No Gain situation

Bright spark still has the advantage. It pushes you to publish in top ranking journal and after you completed PhD, you already published at least few refereed journal papers. This can really help in securing academic position.

If you aimed to complete phd in 3 years, you need to do your research and write up in 2 years the most. It takes quite sometime for the examiners to evaluate your thesis and after viva voce, you need time to refine your thesis as well. This will take up to a year, depending on the amount of amendment you are required to do.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 26 2011, 10:44 AM

This is really a great topic, and i have gained so much from reading this thread.

By the way, i am wondering whether would it be possible to proceed to master degree which is completely different from our degree?

Exp: By proceeding to Master in Education, from a BSc science degree.

I think it is possible to do masters degree which is different from your bachelor degree. But better you ask the uni or faculty that you want to apply to see if they accept such thing or not. The decision is in their hand.

ya, that is the only way i think, however has anyone try before? i guess you need to convinced them with some of your STRONG reason and expertise.

SO in this case, any advices?

Is this the way things work in Malaysia? If this is the case, then Malaysia's postgraduate education is indeed in a very sorry state of affairs.

PhD is about independent research, and the candidate is ought to make significant contributions to the project/paper. I never know you can let other people to do the work for you! (Also I wouldn't trust anyone else's data except my own or someone I really trust)

I'm interested to know what do you mean by "survivability in the community"?

This post has been edited by tester: Aug 28 2011, 09:56 PM

I know one senior manager who do phd in human resources but he is actually from law background. I think the reason he is accepted because he has working experiences related to management.

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Added on August 28, 2011, 10:06 pmThis is not how PhD supposed to work. There are some unethical lecturers that do this though. They are using the undergraduate student that they supervise to "assist" them in doing their research. Some students also can hire other people to help them collecting and analyzing data as well as writing the report. This is also unethical and can happen anywhere in local or overseas.

This post has been edited by seanwc101: Aug 28 2011, 10:06 PM

You have to sign the declaration that the work are done by you, isn't it?

The way it is described sounds quite blatant (lecturers asking students to do the work). I wonder if plagiarism is handled differently in Malaysia?

This post has been edited by tester: Aug 28 2011, 10:25 PM

Yes, have to sign the declaration but this is not practise by all local universities. I bet any candidates who were found guilty of plagiarism will be expelled. But the issue is does the examiners really bother to carefully check every sentences written by the candidate? I know nowadays there's a software that automatically detect plagiarism but I doubt every examiners bother to utilise it. Some unis don't even have the software yet for their lecturers.

You are right on that, that is because some companies have a specific age when the recruit so that they can mould you and teach you, most oil companies like Schlumberger General Field Engineer are 21-23 year old, and you have to be do the grunt work offshore before you move to specific field like product development and research, so if someone graduates at 25-27, there is no way they can go through the learning process and put them to companies who has less developed training program.

At 25 my friend was accorded as the youngest deepwater specialist from Shell, and another is a drilling fluid advisor at 31 for the whole Middle East, at the same time winning three gold awards from Baker for design and innovation, he's now a VP at 33. Both are good friends of mine, non bumi and ex UTP grads. The more you age, the less opportunites you will have since you traded the paper chase for work experience. Paper chase will only get you so far.

OK Noted

my impression is that most people who already have PhD won't have much interest to work in industry, that being said, they will stick to the academic line until retiring

if that is your passion to teach people, then need not worry about working experience in the industry, personally I think it would be a waste if you choose not to be a lecturer after you have got your PhD. For master holders they might still can go back to industry, but not PhD as that will be too old for them to compete with freshgrads in workforce

You can choose to work for your own self as last resort. like Engineering, I encounter many Bosses of big construction company to be either Professional Engineer(Ir) or Dr themselves

Yup. That's the trend that I can see in Malaysia. PhD holder would be a lecturer or researcher. Maybe this is the only job that can utilise their PhD qualification. Or no employer wants to hire PhD holder due to the demand of high salary.

I think in my field only some people in consultant-related job has PhD. I never met any HR Exec/Manager that has PhD. The highest is only masters degree.