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 When you have to choose between ..., ... further studies and a good job

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adrian1984
post Aug 23 2011, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 15 2011, 08:34 AM)
TS,

There are AGE DISCRIMINATION in Malaysia.  So, unless you are looking for a job that NEED your Phd, why would ANYONE hire a 30 years old fresh grad with NO EXPERIENCE??  In fact, your CV / Resume will be thrown to trash can without a look because people will ASSUME that you want high salary.

THINK carefully...

Dreamer

Added on August 15, 2011, 8:38 am

seanwc101,

If NOT, why people do IT??  That is COMMON SENSE..

For FUN?? A person could use that TIME and MONEY to travel around the world or do something else...

And, please DO NOT give me BS about wanting to learn more.  At this day and age, a person could self study almost everything.  The ONLY DIFFERENCE is you get a piece of paper by going to a university.

Now, if a person is NOT CAPABLE of self study, that person has NO BUSINESS doing a Phd.

Dreamer
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Hi Dreamer,
I got no idea about your engineering field, but if you are in my field, doing postgrad is a must.
There is no where a degree holder can perform troubleshooting without having enough experiences in the lab.
Even the application specialist in our country required master and preferably PhD holders, in my field.

FYI, in your language, most of my work is dealing with programming a gene without debugger, inside a new chassis (bacteria host), using Quaternary system (DNA: A,T,G,C).

Sure you can do that? Come to my lab.


QUOTE(krizalid88 @ Aug 15 2011, 12:53 PM)
u are totally wrong dreamer.. if u mean bout something readable subjects like bussiness,management,etc then someone can learn alone by himself.but what about something that need a lot of instruments to make research like engineering,medic,science? u still think they will buy all instruments needed and do self learning? its not about trying to get a piece of paper by universities.  doh.gif
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Totally agree. As an engineer to study a microarray system, and then teach me how to use it.

QUOTE(seanwc101 @ Aug 15 2011, 08:36 PM)
Master (research mode)/PhD need to do research and thesis. For the pure sciences, they need to go to lab and use the lab's instruments to conduct their research. I'm in the applied sciences also need to conduct a research in organisations.
Oh really? That means the teaching hours between public and private is more or less the same. How about research?
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Sean,
If I were you, and if I got a chance to do a PhD, I just do it without hesitation. Having a PhD means you are more well trained in handling complex issues. In fact, postgrad studies trains you management as well: datelines, progress report, grant management, grant "digging" and keep yourself updated with latest literature.

If a company tells you that you are lacking of working experience, they definitely want to "push down" your salary.
I used to attend a sales-job interview, and the HR interviewer who got no idea about my studies, repeatedly told me I do not have working experiences for the "N"th times.
I can't stand it, I asked her "how do you define working experience? If you are saying 'working', I do had experiences doing some other things like hotel receptionist. IF you are talking about relevant working experiences, I wish to know what sort of skills you are referring. I am confident to say I know your company's product very well because I am in this field for a long time, and I done much evaluation on similar product as well. Does that counts, if not, then what?" She kept silence.

Added on August 23, 2011, 4:57 pm
QUOTE(BoonieTan @ Aug 23 2011, 04:39 PM)
Mind elaborate on the quality PhD issues there? Any recommendations on the quality PhD that has to do with biosciences? What is the career prospects for bioscience PhD holder?

Know any quality and reliable sites to do research on this issue, please share generously here.

Thank you. thumbup.gif
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For biosciences, a Quality PhD: If you got at least 4 publications in tier 1 journal, you are considered one of the "Pro" in your field. Try to publish a "Nature" or "Science" journal.

@TS: read this: http://www.nature.com/news/specials/phdfuture/index.html


This post has been edited by adrian1984: Aug 23 2011, 04:57 PM
adrian1984
post Aug 25 2011, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(BoonieTan @ Aug 23 2011, 05:52 PM)
Thanks for the info, adrian.

I see that you are a Proteomic and Molecular Biotechnologist. So I assume that what you studied has got to do with bioscience. From the way you say it, I presumed that you are a phd holder right now. May I know which university you went for further studies?

What you said above is very true. From a conference I attended by biotechcorp a year before, the experts there were saying its difficult for bioscience degree holders to secure a decent job that has got to do with bioscience as they have yet to master the revelant skills needed for the profession. The most relevant is only lab assistant.

I myself am a biotechnology undergraduate in one of the IPTA entering 2nd year soon. Any recommendation for education institutions if one wants to do further studies in these fields? Which study fields that are in demand in the market now.

Lastly, what can a student of this field do to increase his employability and value? Which platform can one go to do research about recent news in this industry?

Your reply is deeply appreciated.

Thank you  biggrin.gif
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You can PM me for more info.

QUOTE(seanwc101 @ Aug 23 2011, 11:59 PM)
I'm aware about the advantages of publications in top rated journal. I've just submitted my first manuscript to an international journal, not a top rated journal though. I plan to get another paper published in a better journal in near future.

I'll only able to study in IPTA, judging from my financial power. If I wanted to do phd overseas, one method is to become a lecturer first with master's degree (some new uni accept lecturer with this qualification), then apply for study leave to do phd in a better rank uni. That is what I noticed with lecturers nowadays. Become lecturer and then apply study leave to study overseas. I'm not sure it's easy or hard to apply though.
Unfortunately most people think PhD is not considered as a working experience or a training for future job. I've read that in some countries employers deem PhD as part of the working experience or some sort of training.

Ya, I agree they wanted to push down the salary. Another issue is some interviewers might use "overqualified" excuse as a way to reject our application. They might say like "What for we hire you with masters/phd qualification when we know bachelor degree holder can perform the job well". Another is interviewers might assume that we won't work for them in the long run because with our high qualification, we will always on the hunt of better prospects/higher salary jobs. 

So did you secured that sales-job at the end? Are you a Phd candidate now?
I actually rejected the job offer. The company doesn't impress me. After all, I got a few other offer.


QUOTE(bashlyner @ Aug 24 2011, 01:20 PM)
You'll gain experience by studying PhD, just that your experience is in researching but not working. Which one is better is up to yourself.

And it would be stupid if you take your PhD cert and compete with degree holder with same job, since you are a qualified researcher its best you stick to research field or teaching. In either case you can quite nice pay within few years, an IPTA senior lecturer already have 4.5K salary and at least 1.4K untaxable allowance, not to mention tons of other government servant benefit.

I myself is doing PhD in UM and they already offer scholarship up to 3.5k per month. This way you can concentrate on your research without having to worry about financial problem.
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Another Brightspark in UM, spotted. PM me and we come out for tea... I'm not involved in the program.

QUOTE(BoonieTan @ Aug 25 2011, 02:06 PM)
A question here, how do you know the supervisor you found is a good one or not? Looking through the research she or he had made so far? Ask for opinion from other lecturers?

Which platform can I get the review regarding the supervisor I'm interested in?
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Do R.A. for a few months, quietly talk to their students...

QUOTE(seanwc101 @ Aug 25 2011, 04:38 PM)
For Masters by research and PhD in IPTA, the thesis will be evaluated by one or two external examiners (lecturers from other universities) before viva voce. 
I need to pay my bachelor's degree student loan and give money to parents as well. I'm not the type that spend much money on unimportant stuff. In my uni, master's degree get rm1,400 per month and phd is rm1600. 

UM got its own scholarship for students pursuing phd overseas?

You can't judge your supervisor by the quality and amount of his/her research. You need to see his/her attitude as well, which is almost impossible to comprehend unless you've working under/with him/her. For example, does the supervisor always on time? Does he/she the type that keeps promise? Does he/she supportive? Does he/she the type that always delaying students work? etc.....

No matter how good the supervisor in producing top quality research, you'll still get a lot of headache if the supervisor always busy, out of office, delay evaluating your work, took more than 1 week to reply your email, think his/her idea is the greatest, ask you to do crazy research, etc. At the end, you'll forever can't grad.
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This is a million dollar advice thumbup.gif
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