true, true. like any investment instrument gold gets speculative too.
the time will come when stocks and props get back to a firmer footing - then gold money will return there.
we know germany, china, india have been buying up lots of gold in the last 2 yrs.

individual... gold bars, gold coins, paper gold, gold funds... all kinds.
yes, all have their own risks, liquidity and conditions attached.

i'll share here what i hear and read:
a. seasoned multi-mil prop investors been selling, reducing portfolio in the last 12m
b. average punters sold some, keeping some, wait and see attitude
c. late comers still buying but not much, hoping not to miss the boat
d. rental seekers optimsitic, keep buying or simply hold

we're entering unchartered waters. bolehsia never had such a high political temp, 1st time having record high domestic debt/gdp %.
with a good balance of doomsayers and eternal optmists and a screwed up gomen, the heat and beat goes on....

unemployment or its data is rather meaningless in bolehland.
they just incr jobs in civil service, taks force for this and that, gomen paid trainees, set up 1kedais, 1 clinics - always full employment.
better to watch gdp, debt/gdp, retail and housing transaction volume.

usa is maresia's no. 4 trading partner. top 3 = china, sg, japan - all 3 dependent on us market.
effect is very high, no doubt.

good observation. been there a few times, know one subsale owner.
rental... 1st owner waited 2yrs, no tenant, subsale owner been waiting for 1yr, no tenant.
if sell now, ok, profit sikit ada.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Aug 12 2011, 04:43 PM

agree although i dun hv as many.
in addition:
1.prolonged surges in home prices give false hope that money can be created out of nothing, no need to be productive
2.sick and economically strapped gomen is further encouraged to use debt and construction to push gdp up, do nothing about anything else

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Aug 15 2011, 10:22 AM

relaks, bro... no need to get too agitated. two camps here for v1-3 - #1 one saying props here dirt cheap, foreigners buy (but never say for wat!) upupup 4ever, everything gudygudy. #2 other camp sees red light, high debt, unsustainable prices. u oledi know, i think.

perhaps cambodia, laos and mongolia should start ballooing their debt, no need to grow padi and raise sheep - all become rich. if not mistaken, najeez was selling this idea to african countries.

if you read more from camp #2, one explanation is ada new forum - lifegoeson, syoksendirigoes on...

thanks for article, summarises much of what some have been saying here. below are the major pointers to me. one can ignore it or take it in.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Aug 15 2011, 10:46 PM

i used to think exactly like this in the past. i can fully understand yr statement. you may not think the same in 10-20 yrs time.

now, i think exactly like this. haven't missed buying it cheaper when younger, i now pay a lot more at an older age. medical charges in private hospitals have skyrocketed making medical insurance very costly now. coverage by employer will cease one way or another - that happens to everyone once you lose your job or retired - a matter of time. best to buy something even when young.

personally, i disagree. bad idea to mix the two up, cloud yr priorities and needs.
prop inv is investment, like all investments. you can lose yr pants and be in debt.
insurance is insurance - there is no substitute.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Aug 22 2011, 10:44 AM

it's good to be optimistic in general to face the world's challenges. just that being an eternal optimist in the midst of negative signs is either unwise or for the extra-gifted.

to be fair, the shit has yet to hit, just some signs now only. those affected in affected areas will hear, "i told you so". those unaffected in unaffected areas will say, "i told you so".

us subprime started in 2007 and price decline hasn't stopped yet. what makes maresia so special that it can keep going with more and more debt, less and less gdp growth?

land is the beginning of the creation of money. one stroke of a pen, a worthless piece of dirt gets a value.
somebody buys it, trade it a few times, millions of rm created. then a matter of whether it gets developed to multiply the effect.
broke gomen knows this is the fastest and easiest way to grow gdp. given the bbb now, why not?!

this is in the same genre as the movie Inside Job which mentioned this book and author. yep, i believe there will be another shock in USA in 2013 due to its massive consumption and no-cure debt. wealth simply cannot be created by quantitative easing, i.e. printing more money or continuous borrowing.

bolehsia same or different? no need to answer as we already know there are two camps.

this rental thingy is more risky than most people think. while there are surely some that will hold very well, many won't give the rental desired. i have a condo rented at 1.6k for a couple of years. when prop prices go up since last year, i thought i could raise rent. no chance, now may have to drop to 1.5k since there are thousands available for rent everywhere. think again if buying now for rental. ok, sure some will say they know where to buy, recession proof, sifu methods... if bought long time ago, can take ups and downs easier. if paid a high price recently, nightmares may emerge.

household debt - i'm on same frequency with you. when bolehsia had good crude pumping and strong fdi inflows, the debt levels were lower. now with less crude, little fdi, high capital flight, a bankrupt gomen and millions of illegals looking for food and other items, the situation is quite dire, imo. maybe shielded in some ways due to certain controls but when a spark ignites a global recession, bolehsia will not be spared in any way. the huge households debts will force a couple of the weakest banks to go under and start a chain reaction for the shape of things to come. rm devaluation is a possibility.

i'm scared this time.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Sep 4 2011, 02:49 PM

well, at least bnm knows huge borrowing to speculate or spend can't go on. up to bankrupt bn gomen to agree or let the debt go higher to win in ge13. see who dies in the end!

if you read carefully, just about the majority of forumers here have said if buying for own stay and planned for it, should buy. investment-speculation-expecting high rental, a big no-no for them. even now as we debate. i am in this group.
if you missed buying in 2007, either you weren't all that prepared to buy a home then or had some speculative element in mind!?

bro, you have made your point very well. many also did the same in the last thousands of posts!

ya, u either get it or u don't. the tragedy is when emotions take over in buying anything.

no surprise - gomen will rather risk higher inflation than stunt gdp esp in construction.
i see no rpgt incr also.
but can expect they will tighten loan approvals on all fronts very soon.
not so easy to borrow high % to goreng anymore, i would say.

read somewhere if the nominal 2.2 or 2.5k is adjusted for inflation in the last 30 yrs or so, the figure comes to about the same money a household maid made at that time. if true, i suppose it was possible for a maid to buy a house then too!

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Sep 9 2011, 11:19 AM

agree... actually, most readers here aren't unperceptive to who is probably coming from what direction and why.
only that someone already said - a forum is open to all, up to all to post reasonably and up to all to read with reason, not blindly.

perhaps all regulars here should declare their status!
ok, for a start, i am no re agent, no dev staff. just a property owner.
no wish to see prices crash but hate to see it go up further for the sake of the future given the shaky economy we're now in.

developers and agents will love you - eat nothing to pay it all for props. just joking.