not all employers will have the E file Number (Nombor Majikan), some companies/proprietorships/partnerships registered more than 5 years ago did not come with E file number unless they applied for it specifically for submission of PCB.

therefore, if you submit Form E, then you will have an E file number, if you don't submit, you leave it blank at the EA Form

it is not easy to understand income tax rules and regulations, some of us here spent years in doing and learning it. for certain tax treatments we can only learn through case study, the guidelines given might be to brief.

most of the time peoples only learn those parts applicable to them such as tax reliefs, you can use google search for more info or read IRB Public Rulings for easier understanding

This post has been edited by nothingz: Feb 24 2013, 05:35 PM

Thanks for advice. Would the IRB cause troubles to me (or my staff) if I leave it blank?

well i do agree not all Employer has E number back then, but now its auto generate for Sdn Bhd. the proper way = every company/partnership/prietorship has to submit Borang E as long as you have emplyees, if you have employee who meet their requirement to pay tax etc its a must for you to submit Borang E. so far i did not see any penalty impose to those did not apply for it. but since its the proper way why not do it that way rather than taking risk of penalty from from irb? besides its just few pieces of form you have to fill it thats all.

so far i didnt see any trouble from it.

there will not be any problem if your business really does not have an E File Number, so to your staff

the purpose of having Form E is to monitor those earning more than RM30k per annum and whether do they declare taxes. if your business does not have anyone earning more than 30k/the business is dormant then it is meaningless to file in although it works as a declaration. therefore no point requesting for an E File Number if you are not meeting the criterias

Anyone still haven't received the CP500 notice yet? It's almost end of February and I still haven't received mine. In the past few years, it came rather early.

were you required to pay tax in last year's tax return? if you were not required to pay, they may not send you CP500 this year.

if you are worried then ask your tax agent or call IRB to ask yourself

Thanks for the info. Yes, I did pay tax last year. Now I suspect it is either late or lost in the mail. I wish LHDN has a facility like e-CP500 so I can check online instead.

most of the peoples hope that they will not receive the CP500, so that they don't need to pay in advance. not much peoples will like to pay in advance voluntarily. hahahaha

you can call to ask about it tomorrow

dormant is not required but for those which are active and have employees is not really meaningless, you can see the direction of IRB where they prefer every employer to apply for Borang E since they auto generates E number for Sdn Bhd. i assume you are familiar with tax issues, as an example will be the changes on CP204 submission. its always to be safe than sorry, we never know when IRB will penalty those employer without E number even they do not have employee salary >30k Pa or 2.5k per month.

true haha, but i do meet some1 who prefer to pay CP500 because their tax payable is like 500k + - where they found it sakit hati when paying in shot -.-

If IRB wants to make it compulsory for all employers, they should issue the Form E to them and not wait till they come and apply since their system should have all the info

the income tax act is drafted in the way that you are 'guilty unless proven innocent', because you have to pay tax in advance, CP500 & CP204 before you file in your final tax. in 1 way it reduces your burden by not having to pay 1 lump sum which the amount may be substantial but on the other hand, you don't earn interest by depositing to IRB.

1 more thing is, you better don't underestimate because you will be penalised if the difference between estimation and actual is more than 30%. as if all the business profits can be estimated reliably...

for a well manage business, i feel that the 'paying tax in advance' practice is unfair to the taxpayer

FYI IRB are doing it for Sdn Bhd, whenever you apply for C number they generates E number for you now. so what im telling here is to be safe than sorry. best way to protect yourself is to take care of yourself from potential harm.

for pay in advance practice, i do agree with you its not fair for taxpayers.

The practise of paying taxes as you earn is consistent in most country around the world. It's not exactly paying tax in advance, it's just that we normally compute our tax liabilities after the year has passed, if at all, tax payers are paying their final due late in the past. Note that IRB allows you to revise your estimation twice in 6th and 9th month of your business so there is room for correction in event your estimation is way off the mark.

I assume you haven't been working previously and do not have any Income Tax account. If your total income is not above ~30k per year, you do not need to submit your tax return since you will not be taxable. So, assuming you have flat RM2k earnings consistently throughout the year (RM2k x 12mths = 24k), you will not be required to make any tax return.

Paying taxes is normal but paying taxes in advance is not normal. Sometimes you have not even received the money(cash flow) but have to pay in advance first.

6th and 9th revision are still before year end, business carries risks and uncertainties. It may experience fluctuations in final months, therefore the paying in advance practice does not benefit taxpayers. You pay them is easy, there's always e-payment system on irb website but where is e-refund?

Your less than RM30K income per year not subjected to tax is wrong since you assumed that employee has contributed epf, what if he did not and he does not claim other reliefs?

This post has been edited by nothingz: Feb 26 2013, 12:39 PM

ermmm it depends on how u judge for the tax payment, for myself i will see it as monthly income tax paid. I earn in Jan, i paid in Jan. but if you Earn in Jan but prefer to paid in Dec. it all depends on which point of view you are from.

there is a reason why IRB change to current year basis in year 2000. cash flow is part of your well manage business as well.

besides, i have seen improvement in IRB refund. they act faster than previous year. I do agree with you regarding IRB should improve their refund method.

for a person who earn Rm2k avg a month, every1 who are has an income should submit tax return, but no worries if you didnt apply for tax file number becoz i dont think IRB will be interested in these group of ppl too hehe.

This post has been edited by klthor: Feb 26 2013, 01:32 PM

Your business FYE is 31 December 2012. You will estimate your tax liabilities for the year 2012 and pay tax installments based on your assessment throughout the year 2012. So, you're not exactly paying in advance. The only assumption is that profits accrue evenly throughout the period which might not be the case. Our tax collection structure is similar and practise in many other countries, so I guess you will have to label many of them as not normal too I guess.

Anyway, in event that you have overpaid your tax liabilities, you will always have the option to write to IRB to offset your tax overpaid against your future tax installments.

Great that you put things into perspective, I'm just providing an aproximate figure guide on the RM30k.

A notice of assessment has not come out but you need to pay first, how can that be fair? Underestimate will subject to penalty but overestimate has no interest, fair? At least our neighbour, Singapore does not practise such tax collection method.

Offset tax instalments is very theoretical but when it comes to practical, it can be very confusing. You may offset current tax instalments with previous overpayments but what if you revise the previous YAs tax comps? The keep tracking procedures are very troublesome especially those clients who do not always pay on time, penalties come in again and make the situation worse. Some of the balances may be from the 90's, able to track?

I've presented my case and you do not agree to it so I guess there no point debating further. The assessment that you received (which is actually our very own tax return) is 7 months after the year of assessment. So, is this fair to the IRB?

It's not that difficult really. All you have to do is write in to IRB and meet up with the officer. We're now on self assessment so revising our own assessment is probably not gonna happen regularly. How hard is it to offset previous overpayment of tax to our current future tax installment >.< The important thing is to get IRB to acknowledge and agree to the plan.