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Photography The Official Nikon Discussion thread V9, D5100 stock arrived !

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vearn27
post May 25 2011, 12:57 AM

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QUOTE(sakurakinomoto @ May 25 2011, 12:26 AM)
Let me explain colour gels.

When you shoot flash, it is white light bursting out right? So let's say, you have a place where the ambient light and some places is tungsten. Tungsten light is brown btw, so if you are shooting without flash, you can easily overcome the tungsten browness using white balance, tungsten.

However what happen if you are using flash?

flash firing range isn't that big btw, so some part of the tungsten won't be wiped out by the flash so it will till remain present in the photo. Therefore,

White + brown = ????

White balance set to tungsten = ????

yeap. This is where the colour gel usefulness comes in.

Let me take the brown colour gel as example.

You apply the colour gel, and then the flash will become brown, so brown + brown = Brown, white balance set to tungsten = ???? = PROFIT!

The whole photo will be brown so the white balance will adjust it to be white.

There. Hope you learn something.

People often thinks that colour gel don't do anything, but actually, it helps a lot.
*
QUOTE(SSY22 @ May 25 2011, 12:38 AM)
Thanks , nice say +1
*
This is just a great 1 2 3 points stop explanation that understandable by new photographer like me rclxms.gif

To get this right, the colour gels you mentioned is the colour filters? I got 4 of them in the box, does that counts right?

Therefore I should always carry them with me and apply it when it's necessary? Okay, this is getting to much to absorb and it's getting critical if I can practise them right this weekend.
General_Nic
post May 25 2011, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(sakurakinomoto @ May 25 2011, 12:51 AM)
I have never heard of flashgun died of overheating though hmm.gif I have never heard of my SB-800 Overheating too
*
Sb900 is the only flashgun ever to have overheating issue sweat.gif
Andy214
post May 25 2011, 01:01 AM

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QUOTE(vearn27 @ May 24 2011, 11:58 PM)
Heh, thanks for pointing that out. I never exactly shoot in total darkness before and yeah, the AF will be hunting and bet the AF Illuminator wouldn't be much help neither.

Thanks again for your tips. I use Aperture Priority most of the time and I'm not comfortable yet to deal with Shutter Priority and Manual.

I'm not confident with my exposure at all, still green at photography. Especially when I see photos by celciuz, that's way far from being just acceptable. Lol. I'm relying much to Adobe LR to correct the tones. Since you mentioned that, would you share tips on when and how to use which metering modes (Spot, Center-Weighted, Matrix) and also the aperture value? I'm still being clueless at this.
Hi Andy214, thanks again for the lengthy reply worth of tips and guides smile.gif

Regarding the minimum Shutter Speed and maximum ISO for shooting with flashgun, what would be your recommendation or your preferred settings? Err... where I can set this ah? LOL doh.gif (gotta flip my manual already)

Should I or shouldn't I fire the flash if we're at an open area, under the sun? Sun may create shadow on face and light flash should be required to fill them up. If I'm doing so, would there be likelyhood that I may overflare the frame? I don't think I will have enough time to do practice and testing till the actual day.

Between diffuser and bounce card, do both methods work the same? What is recommended in different kinds of situation? Regarding bouncing the ceiling and wall, would the colour of the "bouncer" affects the frame? Example white ceiling and brown wall? The location that I'll be shooting is old single storey house, those standalone house in kampung with not-so-white wall and ceiling.

And to my surprise, I found the color gel inside and no idea how it works ~ lol biggrin.gif doh.gif

I'm doing crazy and getting nuts.
Hi geekster129, thanks for sharing the link and I'll be checking it out.
How would I know if the flashgun is getting overheat? Any indicator on it? Still yet to checkout the flashgun yet.
It is in now. Thanks for the headup and will jot it down smile.gif
*
Check your manual page 103; you can download the softcopy for easier reference and you can use find to find the worst; It's under Auto ISO Sensitivity Control, you can read more information there on how it works.

For the shutter speed settings, it depends on the type of movement and so on (e.g. group shot with slight movement, people walking, people running, and also during the actual day "game"); For safe and lazy to adjust (and worry forgot to adjust back), you can adjust for fast shutter speed... OR save two different settings under User Mode 1 and User Mode 2. (e.g. U1 for faster shutter, U2 for slower shutter to compensate for smaller aperture for group shot).
By the way, with Flash, it can help to freeze motion as well, but slow shutter can result in trails (or whatever that's call).

As for under the sun, using the Flash you may have limited shutter speed, you will need to set the Flash Sync Speed to "Auto FP"; See page 222... As for overflare issue, as long you adjust the exposure right (if you're in M mode especially), the flash i-TTL will automatically balances the flash for fill-in.
You can read more about i-TTL Balance Fill Flash here (or the manual):
http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/...Fill-flash.html

There's also something called D-Lighting (also Active D-Ligthing); This can actually help to brigthen the shadow area as well as recover some details on the highlight area. Something like Lightroom Recovery and Fill Light feature.
Active D-Lighting works as you take the picture, while D-Lighting is for processing later.
As to whether to use or not to use this, it's up to you to decide; You can try and experiment with it yourself.

Regarding bouncing the lights off ceiling or wall; I've bounce before on brown wall, green wall, etc. Yes, it does affect the picture, like slight green tint, etc. but so far, not really a problem for me or can still be fixed. Anyway, it "may" not be as bad as it seems; You have to try to and see it yourself (plus, brown wall is not obvious or probably not noticeable, probably it's not as effective in terms as they say darker colour absorbs light). Also, try bouncing off wall from different direction, if gives creative effects lighting and professional image quality; it can also help you fill in the shadow area.

Diffuser and Flash/Bounce Card, again, it's best for your to try out yourself and see the different effect; of course, if you're in a room or with ceiling/walls around, you will also get different effects. The built-in Flash/Bounce Card is very small, you can DIY bigger ones to soften the light more, or get the "Demb Flash Diffuser" kit, which I think few forum-mer here are using, it helps in situations without walls/ceiling especially.:
http://www.dembflashproducts.com/diffuser/

The colour gel is same like the diffuser provided, attached to the flash, except it useful for situation to correct the "lighting";
Example: Try shoot in Karaoke room and use the default diffuser provided and the orange color gel; The default diffuser, the picture will make the room as if lighted by bright flourescent light (under Auto WB); but the orange color gel can get more accurate ambient colour (under Auto WB). Anyway, I think it's best to experiment yourself as experience is the best teacher and also helps you to capture and learn faster.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/light...to-correct.html

This post has been edited by Andy214: May 25 2011, 01:03 AM
Isepunye
post May 25 2011, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(General_Nic @ May 25 2011, 12:41 AM)
get the correct exposure and white balance  biggrin.gif

underexpose: colour dull
overexpose: colour washed out
white balance: too warm or too cold, colour not right

then no direct jpeg/raw pic straight frm camera can get that vibrant colour, even with vivid
*
cukop vibrant tak? whistling.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

vearn27
post May 25 2011, 01:05 AM

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QUOTE(Isepunye @ May 25 2011, 12:46 AM)
im using enolop 2000 MAH and panasonic 2500MAH. used to have energizer 2500MAH b4. never had problem. never heard of it btw. new info i guess.
battery pack normally i survey around differ around RM10 - RM20 only. not worth to me to go shop around. i bought mine RM100 for 8 enelop which i forgot what mAh and i assume 2000 mAh
*
Therefore it shouldn't be a problem if I just grab that RM149 package off? Is there any concern on the different type of Eneloop charger?

QUOTE(seng87 @ May 25 2011, 12:48 AM)
Just an advice, you might wanna switch off the cut off during overheat, when it get overheat, u won't be able to shoot. In my experience, I've tried to use under overheat condition, working well and save me from the lighting issue to get the moments. After all just my 2cents. U may ignore if you think it's too risky.  smile.gif
*
QUOTE(sakurakinomoto @ May 25 2011, 12:51 AM)
I have never heard of flashgun died of overheating though hmm.gif I have never heard of my SB-800 Overheating too
*
Apologize in advance, but please bear with my newbie questions if those are.

How do we know or measure if the flashgun is overheating? Is there any indicator or measure to judge it's overheating?

The overheating mentioned is due to continuously usage of the flashgun and not due to the batteries or high mAh batteries, this is right? I'm having concern with that fact shared by the shop about their customers experience. What does it mean by switch the cut off? unsure.gif
sakurakinomoto
post May 25 2011, 01:06 AM

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QUOTE(vearn27 @ May 25 2011, 12:57 AM)
This is just a great 1 2 3 points stop explanation that understandable by new photographer like me rclxms.gif

To get this right, the colour gels you mentioned is the colour filters? I got 4 of them in the box, does that counts right?

Therefore I should always carry them with me and apply it when it's necessary? Okay, this is getting to much to absorb and it's getting critical if I can practise them right this weekend.
*
Yes yes the colour filter, because you said gel before this so I try to make it easier hah.

You can get a yellow bulb table lamp and try firing you flash PROVIDED the table lamp's light don't get wiped out hah. Then you can see. Normally tungsten filter is highly used.

Anyway, go shooting spree. It will help you feel your equipment better and prepare yourself
Andy214
post May 25 2011, 01:14 AM

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QUOTE(sakurakinomoto @ May 25 2011, 12:26 AM)
Using D3 don't guarantee the user to be pro  icon_idea.gif
hmm.gif Sure? You need to keep shooting!


Added on May 25, 2011, 12:30 am
Let me explain colour gels.

When you shoot flash, it is white light bursting out right? So let's say, you have a place where the ambient light and some places is tungsten. Tungsten light is brown btw, so if you are shooting without flash, you can easily overcome the tungsten browness using white balance, tungsten.

However what happen if you are using flash?

flash firing range isn't that big btw, so some part of the tungsten won't be wiped out by the flash so it will till remain present in the photo. Therefore,

White + brown = ????

White balance set to tungsten = ????

yeap. This is where the colour gel usefulness comes in.

Let me take the brown colour gel as example.

You apply the colour gel, and then the flash will become brown, so brown + brown = Brown, white balance set to tungsten = ???? = PROFIT!

The whole photo will be brown so the white balance will adjust it to be white.

There. Hope you learn something.

People often thinks that colour gel don't do anything, but actually, it helps a lot.
*
Much better and clear explanation thumbup.gif
Although I do bring it around, but I kinda lazy to use those gel/filters and also lazy to adjust WB tongue.gif

sakurakinomoto
post May 25 2011, 01:16 AM

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^ Same here. I shoot in Raw. But the lights later at the back kinda problematic, hopefully no one is picky enough to point them out haha
vearn27
post May 25 2011, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(Andy214 @ May 25 2011, 01:01 AM)
Check your manual page 103; you can download the softcopy for easier reference and you can use find to find the worst; It's under Auto ISO Sensitivity Control, you can read more information there on how it works.

For the shutter speed settings, it depends on the type of movement and so on (e.g. group shot with slight movement, people walking, people running,  and also during the actual day "game"); For safe and lazy to adjust (and worry forgot to adjust back), you can adjust for  fast shutter speed... OR save two different settings under User Mode 1 and User Mode 2. (e.g. U1 for faster shutter, U2 for slower shutter to compensate for smaller aperture for group shot).
By the way, with Flash, it can help to freeze motion as well, but slow shutter can result in trails (or whatever that's call).

As for under the sun, using the Flash you may have limited shutter speed, you will need to set the Flash Sync Speed to "Auto FP"; See page 222... As for overflare issue, as long you adjust the exposure right (if you're in M mode especially), the flash i-TTL will automatically balances the flash for fill-in.
You can read more about i-TTL Balance Fill Flash here (or the manual):
http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/...Fill-flash.html

There's also something called D-Lighting (also Active D-Ligthing); This can actually help to brigthen the shadow area as well as recover some details on the highlight area. Something like Lightroom Recovery and Fill Light feature.
Active D-Lighting works as you take the picture, while D-Lighting is for processing later.
As to whether to use or not to use this, it's up to you to decide; You can try and experiment with it yourself.

Regarding bouncing the lights off ceiling or wall; I've bounce before on brown wall, green wall, etc. Yes, it does affect the picture, like slight green tint, etc. but so far, not really a problem for me or can still be fixed. Anyway, it "may" not be as bad as it seems; You have to try to and see it yourself (plus, brown wall is not obvious or probably not noticeable, probably it's not as effective in terms as they say darker colour absorbs light). Also, try bouncing off wall from different direction, if gives creative effects lighting and professional image quality; it can also help you fill in the shadow area.

Diffuser and Flash/Bounce Card, again, it's best for your to try out yourself and see the different effect; of course, if you're in a room or with ceiling/walls around, you will also get different effects. The built-in Flash/Bounce Card is very small, you can DIY bigger ones to soften the light more, or get the "Demb Flash Diffuser" kit, which I think few forum-mer here are using, it helps in situations without walls/ceiling especially.:
http://www.dembflashproducts.com/diffuser/

The colour gel is same like the diffuser provided, attached to the flash, except it useful for situation to correct the "lighting";
Example: Try shoot in Karaoke room and use the default diffuser provided and the orange color gel; The default diffuser, the picture will make the room as if lighted by bright flourescent light (under Auto WB); but the orange color gel can get more accurate ambient colour (under Auto WB). Anyway, I think it's best to experiment yourself as experience is the best teacher and also helps you to capture and learn faster.
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/light...to-correct.html
*
Yeah, I have downloaded the softcopy of manual for D7000 and I have it in my iPhone too (just in case! lol). Will check the chapter as per mentioned for the shutter speed / iso setting and how to utilize the user modes.

When my friend bought his D7000 kit, the seller not recommended to turn the Active D-Lighting ON as he claimed that it slightly wash out the sharpness of the photo quality. I'm yet to test it nor read more about it online, but I remained it turned OFF for the time being. Would the Active D-Lighting actually recommended to be turned ON all the time?

I'm still having mixed understanding between bouncing method and using diffuser or bounce card. I have seen many photographer just letting the flash fire 90 degree pointing straight up. All with diffuser if I'm not mistaken. Therefore, I should put it like this. Diffuser is used to soften the flash flare and to let it bounce on the wall. Bounce card is usually used in a situation where wall or ceiling is impossible to reach? Should it be that or I'm having wrong understanding. In addition, beside the "Demb Flash Diffuser" product, what other accessories can be paired with the flashgun that sold separately?

Noted on the colour gel thingy nod.gif

QUOTE(sakurakinomoto @ May 25 2011, 01:06 AM)
Yes yes the colour filter, because you said gel before this so I try to make it easier hah.

You can get a yellow bulb table lamp and try firing you flash PROVIDED the table lamp's light don't get wiped out hah. Then you can see. Normally tungsten filter is highly used.

Anyway, go shooting spree. It will help you feel your equipment better and prepare yourself
*
Haha, I guess Andy214 first mentioned it as colour gel. I'm kinda rushy at the shop just now to check exactly what's packed with the package. I just opened it up and checked the list of item with the manual only know it's colour filter instead of gel tongue.gif
scotty
post May 25 2011, 01:25 AM

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any event this month? long time no out to shoot liao smile.gif
Andy214
post May 25 2011, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(vearn27 @ May 25 2011, 01:23 AM)
Yeah, I have downloaded the softcopy of manual for D7000 and I have it in my iPhone too (just in case! lol).  Will check the chapter as per mentioned for the shutter speed / iso setting and how to utilize the user modes.

When my friend bought his D7000 kit, the seller not recommended to turn the Active D-Lighting ON as he claimed that it slightly wash out the sharpness of the photo quality. I'm yet to test it nor read more about it online, but I remained it turned OFF for the time being. Would the Active D-Lighting actually recommended to be turned ON all the time?

I'm still having mixed understanding between bouncing method and using diffuser or bounce card. I have seen many photographer just letting the flash fire 90 degree pointing straight up. All with diffuser if I'm not mistaken. Therefore, I should put it like this. Diffuser is used to soften the flash flare and to let it bounce on the wall. Bounce card is usually used in a situation where wall or ceiling is impossible to reach? Should it be that or I'm having wrong understanding. In addition, beside the "Demb Flash Diffuser" product, what other accessories can be paired with the flashgun that sold separately?

Noted on the colour gel thingy nod.gif
Haha, I guess Andy214 first mentioned it as colour gel. I'm kinda rushy at the shop just now to check exactly what's packed with the package. I just opened it up and checked the list of item with the manual only know it's colour filter instead of gel tongue.gif
*
I don't turn the Active D-Lighting on too; Used it before but didn't really pixel peep and compare; But will be nice if I take a picture, it can produce 2 output, one with D-Lighting and another without tongue.gif
But then, I prefer raw, so these features become pointless.

The diffuser that provided/comes with the flash, it will soften and also spread the flash around the sides (not really sure how to explain) and the output is not what I really looking for. Most people use it and use it the basic way, flash head up 90 degrees or maybe slightly tilt. That's what you see commonly, even indoors with ceiling and walls around; When I use it, I just don't like the output. It's unnatural, and very "basic" or "mediocore" output result, in my personal opinion.
The diffuser is useful for situation without ceiling or wall as well; you often see people use the diffuser just about anywhere..... and I don't really find the light as soft "enough". In many situation, I tried it, took it off and put it back into my bag.
You can check out more on the Demb Flash Diffuser as it provides more flexibility and better results.

Sorry about the gel thingy tongue.gif
Forgot where I got the term, but there was also color gel which works the same as the filter; not sure which was first tough tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Andy214: May 25 2011, 01:49 AM
aldosoesilo
post May 25 2011, 01:49 AM

I was like LOL :D
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dear vearn27, grats for the purchase smile.gif
and good luck ahead for the wedding.

dear scotty,
me join this one http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=148736871863933 and maybe this one http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=133092706767672
scotty
post May 25 2011, 02:12 AM

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QUOTE(aldosoesilo @ May 25 2011, 01:49 AM)
dear vearn27, grats for the purchase smile.gif
and good luck ahead for the wedding.

dear scotty,
me join this one http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=148736871863933 and maybe this one http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=133092706767672
*
first 1 seems ok. any catch? i din read all. any charges?

oh its full. sorry im too late. let me know if got empty slot smile.gif


This post has been edited by scotty: May 25 2011, 02:13 AM
seng87
post May 25 2011, 02:30 AM

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QUOTE(vearn27 @ May 25 2011, 01:05 AM)
Therefore it shouldn't be a problem if I just grab that RM149 package off? Is there any concern on the different type of Eneloop charger?
Apologize in advance, but please bear with my newbie questions if those are.

How do we know or measure if the flashgun is overheating? Is there any indicator or measure to judge it's overheating?

The overheating mentioned is due to continuously usage of the flashgun and not due to the batteries or high mAh batteries, this is right? I'm having concern with that fact shared by the shop about their customers experience. What does it mean by switch the cut off? unsure.gif
*
Basically, if there is a burst usage on the speedlight, it will heat up fast, so when the speedlight get overheated and when that happen it will have a beeping sound indicating that the flash unit is overheating(there is a graphic thingy showing temperature), therefore it will cut off not allowing you to use it anymore, but u can switch off the cut off so that even if the flash unit still beeping, but u can still shoot. This will allow you to capture the moments and not losing it, but i will say that the sound is kinda annoying. Good luck to you.

Here is the link to off the Thermal Cut Out.
http://www.ehow.com/how_7566056_disable-ni...flash-unit.html
celciuz
post May 25 2011, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(vearn27 @ May 24 2011, 10:35 PM)
Ok guys, this is getting crazy for me. Flashgun is in now. Next, I'll need to hunt for batteries tomorrow. Sanyo Eneelop? Which package is recommended? The seller told me that their shop customers got experience using high mAh batteries for the flashgun resulting in malfunctioning which then requires repair. Izzit true that high mAh batteries will spoil the flashgun? unsure.gif

Any guide or tips on how I should handle the flashgun least enough for what to deliver this weekend? sweat.gif

[attachmentid=2233219]
*
Sanyo Eneloop, highly recommended from me. So far it works well and never failed me.

QUOTE(makoshark @ May 24 2011, 10:40 PM)
base from my noob exp..i never see wedding photographer do their job without flashgun..its a very2 important thing u should hv if u wanna be a wedding photographer..
*
Depends, if you look works of more wedding photog you would realize there are some at different level which does not use flash to capture actual ambient feel. I have a few friends who does wedding photography and they don't use flash all the time.

But oh well, that is with gears like D3 and also f/2.8 zoom, f/1.4 primes.
xbbshampoo
post May 25 2011, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(Isepunye @ May 25 2011, 12:35 AM)
software la. LR PS picasa or anything.
*
i'll try, thanks for the advice bro flex.gif

QUOTE(General_Nic @ May 25 2011, 12:41 AM)
get the correct exposure and white balance  biggrin.gif

underexpose: colour dull
overexpose: colour washed out
white balance: too warm or too cold, colour not right

then no direct jpeg/raw pic straight frm camera can get that vibrant colour, even with vivid
*
lol, but i always use auto WB. and i keep my exposure middle in the middle. is it the correct way to do it ? laugh.gif
Agito666
post May 25 2011, 09:30 AM

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then what gear is that? hmm.gif
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This post has been edited by Agito666: May 25 2011, 09:30 AM
celciuz
post May 25 2011, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(xbbshampoo @ May 25 2011, 09:18 AM)
i'll try, thanks for the advice bro  flex.gif
lol, but i always use auto WB. and i keep my exposure middle in the middle. is it the correct way to do it ?  laugh.gif
*
Most of the time it would be ok. But some condition will confuse the metering and then your exposure would be no good. Then again, it depends on the photographer. What type of exposure does the photographer want. You control your camera, not your camera control you.
Andy214
post May 25 2011, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(celciuz @ May 25 2011, 09:33 AM)
Most of the time it would be ok. But some condition will confuse the metering and then your exposure would be no good. Then again, it depends on the photographer. What type of exposure does the photographer want. You control your camera, not your camera control you.
*
Yup, tumpang add on:
Remember, the camera is a device, it cannot see or know the real situation, it use its sensor and calculte the appropriate exposure.
Example: If the background is very bright and you subject standing in front of the background. The camera cannot see or know what's going on and cameras have limited dynamic range unlike human eyes.
In matrix metering mode, the camera will expose for the whole frame, thus giving you 'incorrect' exposure to the subject.
This situation you can dial in exposure compensation (in non manual mode) or if you're on manual mode, you can't rely on the metering unless you dial in the correct exposure compensation.
OR, you can change the metering mode, e.g. spot metering, so the camera will meter the spot which you focus instead of the entire frame.

Anybody please help to corrct me if I get any part wrong, or have something to add on or provide better explanation.
Agito666
post May 25 2011, 09:43 AM

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but then cosplay event the WB will run off right? because too colourful already XD...
last time snap this my friend said the WB take her pink wig as WB ...and make whole picture become pink...
now i wonder how the WB judge the "white" hmm.gif
that picture PPed one.
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This post has been edited by Agito666: May 25 2011, 09:44 AM

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