Architecture FAQs
1.0. Planning Towards Architecture as a Profession
1.1. Planning your route to architecture
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How do I know if architecture is for me?
There are lots of different people eventually end up doing architecture, and none of them come from the same background. Meaning it is quite hard to find specific characteristics of a person whom will end up doing architecture. But we do agree on some general aspects of a person who could like architecture:
i. Has a keen interest in architecture, buildings, socio-cultures and the environment
ii. Has a strong interest in art and design
iii. Confident, strong opinionated, comfortable at public discussions
Although these shouldn't be treated as an accurate depiction of what a potential architecture student should have. You could still do architecture even without possessing any of these aspects. Just a bit harder.
Would matriculation be a good path to architecture?
Matriculation provides a pre-university course that gets you a chance into an IPTA in one academic year. Compared to STPM, it is at the moment the fastest route after SPM. It is also the general perception that matriculation is a notch easier than STPM.
What would be the best route to study architecture overseas?
The best route (bang for buck) would be to take STPM. STPM is the cheapest A-levels equivalent certificate and is recognized world wide. It is also keeps your options to study locally open at the same time. If you have the money, you could study A-levels or International Baccalaureate instead, but these are not normally accepted into local IPTAs.
Must I study full 5 years to be an architect? Is there any way around it to shorten my study duration?
Yes, 5 years is the minimum academic years you must spend to study architecture. On top of that, you will need to obtain a minimum of 6 months practical experience in between. There is no official way for you to shorten it. Doing so may risk your accreditation status, which is the license to practice.
What preparations should I do before starting the architecture course?
Nothing much. You could brush up on your drawing, computing and public speaking skills. But other than that, all you need is firm mental preparation.
Can I do an architectural degree part time? Is it accredited like a full time? What about distance learning (PJJ)?
Yes, you can do the degree part time. At the moment only ONE part time programme is accredited in Malaysia. So far, no long-distance programmes are offered in Malaysia.
I don't have any artistic or drawing background. Will it hinder my progress in architecture?
Although it is not always necessary to have a drawing or artistic background, having those skills greatly boosts your abilities to design. Drawing is a method of communication. Having mastered the basics of drawing prior to studying architecture gives you the advantage to be able communicate and articulate your ideas to others far more efficiently than those who're just starting to learn how to draw.
Bottom line is, even if you've never had a formal training in arts, all you need is a constant interest and a strong motivation to keep you going.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of taking a diploma in architecture compared to the more popular STPM/matriculation route?
Diploma allows you to go straight into doing architecture as soon as you finish SPM for 3 years. Later you may decide to join a degree school at 2nd year Part 1 for another 2 years, and finally another 2 years for Part 2. This totals to 7 years of learning experience in architecture.
Compare this to STPM route, where you will learn general, non-architectural subjects for 2 years, and later join Parts 1 and 2 degrees for 5 years. Here you will only experience 5 years of learning architecture out of 7 years.
As will be explained in the architecture education section, architecture is a life long learning, where the longer you're exposed to it, the more mature a designer you'll become. The only disadvantage of taking diploma is that it may cost higher, especially if you chose to join a private school.
Do my SPM/STPM results affect my chances of becoming a good architect?
Despite being important in determining one's chances to get into an IPT, your SPM/STPM results do not directly influence how good you are studying architecture, let alone becoming a good architect. Look at it as a fresh start, as practically everything that you'll be learning in architecture are entirely new and does not depend very much on what you've learned in school apart from maths, structured learning and good sense of logic.
What are the subjects (SPM and STPM) that I should take to prepare myself for the course?
Although there are lots of varied suggestions to this matter, most agreed that prospective students should have good command of Mathematics, English and Arts. Other subjects are provides enrichment and added value, but nothing essential.
Does age matters in architecture? Would it be too late for me to start studying architecture at 25 years old?
Age does not matter in studying architecture. You may start whenever you like. In fact, it is accepted that students who have traveled or experienced a lot have a better perception and maturity in architectural studies.
1.2. Where to study?
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What are the criteria often taken into consideration in choosing a school?
Listed below are criteria often taken into consideration by candidates in no particular order:
i. Cost and Duration
The fees are one of the most crucial factors in deciding which school to choose. This reason alone is enough to explain why IPTAs are extremely popular compared to IPTS. Of course, in relation to cost is also the duration of study. However, for architecture the minimum duration is set to five academic years for a part 2 equivalent qualification. It is the same internationally.
ii. Location
Architecture students may prefer schools within or close to urban areas, as this is where they will derive their primary inspiration and reference from. Also, being closer to home eases the transition of being an independent person. However this does not always contribute to better learning environment, as exemplified by many international schools.
iii. Reputation and Ranking
Schools with good reputation and ranking should always take priority in choosing a school. However, rankings should not be misinterpreted as true gauge, but more as a guideline or indicator. At times, the difference between ranking #1 and #2 are so minute, but #2 and #3 are miles apart, yet #3 will still be read as the one after #2, however far it may be.
iv. Accreditation
In architecture, this is the most important aspect. Going through non-accredited schools may become the stumbling block for you to fulfill your dreams of becoming an architect. Do not take the risk!
v. Academic expertise
Although this is usually something a graduate would factor in, some undergraduate applicants have started asking expertise in each school. Each school differs in expertise and emphasizes on certain specialization. It would be good to know upfront what you're getting into.
vi. Certificate level
Not all schools will offer from post STPM/A-levels to part 2 qualifications. Some stops at sub-part 1 diploma, others maybe just a part 1 degree. Some may offer an accredited part 1 degree, but a non-accredited part 2 degree.
vii. Facilities and Accessibility
This is not a big issue, but attending a school so poorly equipped leaves a lot of things to be desired. However, it is to my understanding that students nowadays gauge a school by how advanced their facilities are, and this is often misleading. Facilities do not often reflect on how good a school is.
viii. Chance of getting in
Now this is right down the mark. Why should you apply to a school where you don't stand a chance of getting in? Wrong. Unless you do not fulfill the requirements set by the intake standard, never let anybody tell you you're not good enough. It never hurt to apply.
Can I study architecture overseas schools like Japan, China or the likes?
With the new accreditation listing to be announced by LAM, as long as the programme is certified at its home country as a professional programme, it's good enough and should be valid to be used to apply for a license in Malaysia. However the process is not automatic - you will still have to sit for the LAM parts 1 and 2 exams to pass. If the programme is not even certified for architectural practice, you can't qualify for the LAM exams.
I heard that the AA and the Bartlett are some of the best/most popular schools of architecture in the world. Can I study there?
Of course. However, they are also some of the hardest schools to get into due to high competition and high requirements. Don't let this hinder your enthusiasm. You should try and apply regardless of what others tell you. Also note that some of the best schools in the world are also some of the most expensive.
The US uses a different system than Malaysia. Can I study there and later practice in Malaysia?
Refer to studying overseas (Japan, China etc).
What are the advantages/disadvantages of studying the UK or Australia?
Generally we would associate this with the benefits of studying overseas. But of course, in terms of architecture profession, these two countries are very preferred. The reason primarily being the systems they use are familiar system to ours with many compatible practices. Again, accreditation is crucial here, as mentioned earlier.
What are the schools of architecture in Singapore? Can I study there?
There are two schools in Singapore that offers architecture: National University of Singapore (NUS) and Nan Yang Polytechnique (NYP). Yes, you can study there as they also adopted the British system, but currently have evolved into a unique programme.
Which university in Malaysia is the best to study architecture?
This is a very subjective question, but one of the most frequently asked. At the moment, IPTAs are highly equipped in expertise, research and development, education as well as accreditation. IPTSs on the other hand offer a degree of flexibility, freedom and practical exposure.
My personal recommendation is always go to the university that provides accredited education. It's the safest bet.
Is it important to choose a school based on its emphasis on technical and practical knowledge?
It is a matter of personal preference. It does not make much difference as all schools actually emphasize a certain degree of technical and practical knowledge.
Would polytechnique be considered as a good path to architecture? Why aren't polytechniques a popular choice to study architecture?
In actual fact, polytechnique is not such a bad choice considering its emphasis on technical knowledge and practicality. It does not emphasize much on design skills or theory and philosophy however. Holding a diploma in architecture from a polytechnique provides you with all the basic skills to become a technical assistant.
Why is it not a popular choice? Mainly because polytechniques are often seen as a place where people end up if they couldn't get into an IPTA and can't afford an IPTS. This is a misconception, as polytechniques does offer a strong sub-part 1 diploma.
1.3. Switching to architecture
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Can I study architecture after studying interior design or landscape architecture? How?
Yes, you can. Although it depends on what level you've studied for your ID or LA in order to determine at which level you could start. This is handled on case-by-case basis, so I wouldn't provide a canvassing statement.
After completing my civil & structural engineering draughtsmanship course, can I enter architecture course?
Yes, you can. It now boils down to which level you will be joining the architecture course. If it is an STPM/A-levels equivalent, you'll be joining at 1st year. If it's a diploma, chances are you'll be joining at 2nd year. This is also handled on case-by-case basis.
1.4. Financing your studies
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Is it worth to take a loan to study architecture overseas?
This is very subjective. It will depend on whether you would be able to comfortably afford to pay back the loan after you've finished studying. Earning a well paying job would definitely make you feel taking the loan is well worth it. But if eventually you couldn't manage to pay back the loan or having difficulties, you may think it might not be worth the hassle.
Above that, you should consider the benefits and the negative effects of studying overseas, and weigh them against the issues of taking a loan. We're normally talking about almost RM100k for the entire duration, so please be completely thorough in your risk assessments.
Are there any loans or financial support available for me to study architecture courses in IPTSs?
Commonly, the most popular of financing your studies in IPTS is taking a PTPTN loan. You can also find other financiers such as banks or NGOs. Always look out for such offers in the newspapers.
Are there any architectural firms that give out scholarships or loans?
I can't give a definite answer to this, but as far as I know, there isn't.
What are my chances of getting sponsored to study architecture overseas by JPA?
Architecture is grouped under social sciences. According to JPA, the allocation for social science group is 100 students per year. It means architecture students will have to compete with other social science courses for those. I don't know the exact details, but this can be as low as 5-10 students only, out of hundreds that applied.
1.5. Accreditation, Recognition and Qualification Issues
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Do we need to get accreditation from LAM if we've obtained RIBA from overseas university?
Yes, but only if you wish to practice in Malaysia.
What is the difference between a sub-part 1 diploma and a non-accredited part 1 degree?
A sub-part 1 diploma is a certificate that is below the level of part 1. A diploma usually trains the students with all the essential skills needed to proceed in architecture, primarily in draftsmanship as well as design assistance or auxiliary designer. A sub-part 1 diploma does not qualify you to independently sit for a part 1 exam.
A non-accredited part 1 degree means it is a degree that actually qualifies you with a part 1, although have yet to receive proper accreditation from LAM. It does not stop you from applying a LAM accreditation by yourself by submitting your portfolio with some work experience. You will then sit for the part 1 exam independently.
Why is it that some schools are not accredited by LAM? Can you explain the accreditation process?
Some schools are not yet accredited because they have not fulfilled the requirements or achieved the high standards required for the LAM. The accreditation process can take quite some time, and new schools will have to produce at least one batch of graduates before they can start the accreditation process.
When a school starts its architecture programme, first it will seek out MQA approval. This is to ensure that their certificates conform to the national standard of awarding the respective certification. At this point, MQA will review the programme and approves it. Only when MQA provides approval could a programme start taking students.
However, MQA approval is does not make it recognized to award a professionally accredited degree of architecture. After the school has produced at least one batch of graduates, the Council of Accreditation and Architecture Education Malaysia (CAAEM) will review the school, its curriculum and its graduates. The CAAEM consists of representatives of the academic community, the profession and the regulatory board.
If the CAAEM finds everything satisfactory, it will award the school and its graduates the proper accreditation according the education level. If not, the CAAEM will instruct the school to review its system, improve and seek out another review in 2 years. This short-term situation is known as conditional accreditation.
After the school has been accredited by LAM, it will continue to offer the programme until the next review. This usually done every 5 years to ensure that the school doesn't slack and allow its quality to drop. All school goes through this review, even established schools like UTM, USM, UiTM and UM.
Can I practice architecture without LAM qualifications?
In the long term, no. At the moment, you can register with you unaccredited degree and still practice as a LAM Part 1 or 2 exam candidates. This assumes after you've acquired substantial amount of experience, you will sit for the LAM part 1 or 2 exams (wherever applicable). Architecture is a regulated profession, and you will need a license to practice. Practicing without a license is highly illegal; moreover you, your firm, your clients and every other member working for or with you will be liable to legal action.
Part 1 and 2 licenses are automatically obtained as soon as you've obtained an accredited degree with corresponding qualifications. Finally, you may obtain a part 3 license as soon as you passed the part 3 examinations and registered, which can be taken after a few years practicing with a part 2 license.
Are the Part 1, 2 and 3 considered equivalent between countries like Malaysia, Singapore, United Kingdom and Australia?
Technically, all these countries and including most commonwealth countries use the same system, hence Parts 1, 2 and 3 is considered equivalent.
How important is LAN and LAM accreditation? What is the difference between the two?
First of all, it is very important to differentiate between LAN/MQA and LAM. LAN/MQA (Lembaga Akreditasi Negara / Malaysia Qualification Agency) is a government body in charge of making sure that all educational courses conducted by an institution in Malaysia comply with the standard set by the government. This ensures that the rights of the students to proper, quality education are protected. They do not concern themselves over the professional standard of the certificate offered. Without LAN accreditation, it simply means that the school has not achieved the minimum standard to offer degree education to you.
LAM (Lembaga Akitek Malaysia / Malaysia Board of Architects) on the other hand is the regulatory body for the architecture profession in Malaysia. LAM will accredit each institution offering architecture education in Malaysia in order to make sure that each institution complies with the minimum standard of producing an architect in Malaysia. LAM does this by sending the CAEM (Council of Architecture Education Malaysia) to each school every five years. Without LAM accreditation, it means that the school has not complied with the standard to produce an architecture graduate.
What is the difference between a Part 2 Masters and a Part 2 Degree?
Practice-wise, there's no difference. Part 2 is still a Part 2, whether it's a post-graduate diploma, a degree or even a masters. The only difference is that masters would have more research component at the end of the day, and the level of education does somehow enhance the marketability of the graduates. But in the professional world, there is no difference between a Part 2 masters and a part 2 degree.
Why does certain architectural degrees carry Honours in them, and some don't?
This relates very much on how certain degrees in general are awarded, which varies from country to country. Malaysian degrees follow the British format, where professional degrees carry more weight or emphasis on certain aspect of its education, warranting an Honours title, commonly abbreviated as "Hons." as a suffix to the degree title.
This differs from Australian degree system, where Honours means an additional semester at the end of the degree. Only selected students fulfilling a high requirement will be allowed to take Honours component in their degree. It means an Honours degree from Australia carries more academic strength that those following British system. Though, it does not make much difference in terms of professional practice.
Can I skip Part 1 and immediately sit for Part 2?
No. Part 1 is a prerequisite for taking Part 2. There's no way around it.
What is the difference between a Bachelor of Science (BSc) in Architecture and Bachelor of Architecture (BArch)?
BSc as well as BA (Bachelor of Arts) is a general degree, usually associated with Part 1 qualifications.
BArch is a specialized or professional degree, normally associated with Part 2 qualifications.
Is there any other way to obtain Parts 1 and 2 without taking an academic degree?
If you're talking about LAM, I'm afraid there isn't. LAM keeps a strict control over the profession, and does not accommodate parts 1 or 2 without an academic degree. At least not to my knowledge. RIBA or other bodies may have some allocation for those.
Are twinning or part-time programmes accredited by PAM/LAM?
No, twinnings or part-time programmes are not accredited nor recognized by both PAM/LAM and LAN/MQA.
What are the disadvantages of studying in an unaccredited school?
Without accreditation, you will not be certified as an architect. Being a strictly exclusive and highly regulated profession, architecture is not a title or profession that can be donned by anyone who feels like it. Without accreditation, not only you could not practice legally in Malaysia, you couldn't even call yourself an architect!
Non accredited degrees also mean other schools may be more strict towards you in the selection process for further studies.
If a course has not been accredited by LAM, is it worth it to take that course at all?
Some courses have not been accredited by LAM, but are part of a partnership programme with overseas universities that can award them with a RIBA part 1 or 2. It means students must plan to continue to the partner university to acquire their part 2. Stopping after finishing with unaccredited degree will not allow them to practice.
1.6. Applying to a school of architecture
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Can I use my A-levels to apply for architecture course in any IPTAs?
Unfortunately, at the moment IPTAs do not accept A-levels, except for overseas/non-citizen applicants. However there have been cases for Malaysian students who took A-levels while overseas to which they had no option to take STPM. There is no news on whether IPTAs would open their intake requirements to include A-levels at the moment.
How fierce are the competitions in applying into an IPTA's architectural courses?
Competitions can be pretty fierce for IPTAs. The intake to applicant ratio can range between 1:4 to 1:15. Numbers vary from year to year, due to sudden surge of popularity, and sometimes change of number of intakes in certain universities.
What are the entry requirements for architecture in Malaysia? Are there any physical requirements?
Entry requirements differ between levels of studies, and can differ between schools also. The common basic requirements applicable to all IPTAs would be:
i. Passed SPM or O-levels or equivalent, with a special emphasis on Bahasa Malaysia and Mathematics.
ii. Passed STPM with at least 3Cs (2.00cgpa) including Pengajian Am; or
Passed Matriculation programme with at least 2.00cgpa; or
Holding a Diploma with at least 2.00cgpa.
iii. Passed the MUET exams.
iv. Must be at least 17 years old when applying.
IPTS usually have more lenient intake requirements than IPTAs.
There is no particular physical requirement into architecture, but some schools might emphasize on addressing colour-blindness issues. Students with potential issues should inquire with the prospective school about their specific physical requirements. It is also recommended that physically challenged students to inquire the school for facilities to accommodate them.
How many intakes are there for architecture schools in Malaysia? When?
For IPTAs, there's only one intake every year, and that is the July intake. However, UiTM makes an exception, as they also have a December intake, meaning two intakes per year.
For IPTSs, the intake is usually every semester. For example LimKokWing University and Taylor's College have 3 intakes per year. Do check on individual IPTS for their exact intake date and when to apply.
How do I apply?
For IPTAs, you can apply through UPU. After STPM results have been announced, prospective students can apply through the online UPU form. You can buy the unique access ID from Bank Simpanan Nasional branches, which will be used to access your online form. There will be no paper applications from 2008 onwards.
For IPTSs, you can apply directly to the respective schools as soon as you've received your exam results (SPM, STPM, A-levels, matriculation etc).
When should I apply through UPU?
You should apply as soon as you've received your SPM/STPM results, before the closing date each year.
Other than UPU, how else could I apply a degree course in IPTAs?
Technically, you can apply directly to the school of architecture of an IPTA. However, usually you will be instructed to fill in the UPU form eventually. Remember that applications are all now centralized by UPU. It is the school's preference that you go through the proper channels.
How does UPU works in terms of selecting architecture students?
The selection process is divided into two systems: Direct selection or Interview selection.
Direct selection means UPU determines which students qualify into the course according to criteria listed by the school of architecture. The school itself does not have any direct contact with their prospective students. UM is the only IPTA that has direct selection.
Interview selection means UPU provides the entire list of applicants who've included the course as one of their choices of study to the respective school. This list can be thousands of applicants long. The school then takes the list, and starts to rank them based on their academic and co-curricular achievements by using merit points. The school will then come up with a second list, usually about 200 names long. These will be called for the interview.
After the interviews have been conducted, the school will adjust the merit points based on the results of the interviews. Finally, the school will come up with a final list and submit it to UPU. This final list is known as the first intake list. Those who didn't make the first intake list will be put in the reserve list. In any circumstances that a student declined to fill the first intake space, more names will be called from the reserve list.
Because of the policy of the Ministry of Higher Education, any empty spaces must be filled. Names will be called continuously until either the list has been fulfilled, or the reserve list has been exhausted.
What is the purpose of the interview process?
The interview process is a method to collect more information from the candidates that couldn't be found on paper to better aid the assessors to make the best judgment. For example, social skills like ability to hold a conversation or even an argument, body language, confidence and so on are not assessable on paper and can only be done face to face. Of course, a window of 10 to 15 minutes is not enough to fully assess a candidate, but it provides a more informed decision.
How does an interview process work?
Interviews will be conducted by individual schools. It means if you've applied to three architecture schools and they have all short listed you, you may be called for three separate interviews.
Interviews usually conducted in several stages. UTM has one of the most complex interview systems. Each candidate will sit through three stages testing different skills within the same day.
i. The Drawing Test
In this test, candidates will be instructed to draw an imaginary scene. This can range from a re-imagination of own room or picturing a future office for self. The key here is to be able to imagine, and then put down the imagination on paper. Imagination alone is not enough if not supported by good hands-eye coordination.
ii. The Aptitude Test
This part tests the candidates' knowledge about art, design and architecture. It can range from general knowledge to IQ based problem solution. The purpose is to test the candidate's aptitude.
iii. The Verbal Interview
This is the core of the interview process. Candidates will be tested in often semi-formal conversation on their abilities to speak, confidence, articulation and even spontaneous problem solving abilities.
Other schools may conduct their interviews based on variations of the above format.
When would the interview usually conducted?
Interviews, if called, will usually be conducted between 4 to 8 weeks after applying through UPU. Interviews are usually organized amongst the IPTAs so that it does not overlap with each other, allowing students to attend as many interviews as they need. If it somehow overlaps or you want to arrange a specific date, call the school conducting the interview immediately.
Do we need to prepare a portfolio for the interview? What should be in the portfolio?
First, a portfolio is like an art resume or a compressed, mobile gallery. An architect, designer or artist is required to build their own portfolio in order to show what they can do to a prospective client. In this case, having a portfolio will showcase your extensive skills to the interviewer during the verbal interview. Some may not require it, but it should not stop you from showing what you can do.
A portfolio should showcase all your skills. Usually candidates will include previous paintings, drawings and sketchings even as far back as primary school, photography, pictures of timber works, carvings, batik paintings, murals or graffiti on walls, sculptures and so on. Bottom line is, the portfolio should showcase what you can do.
The portfolio must only consist of original works. If it is a collaboration (in case of murals, for example), it should be indicated so. If you can't provide original works, try and provide original copies. There are also occasions where interviewers may want to keep a copy of your best works, usually to be brought into discussions during the final selection process, so having extra certified copies may come in handy.
What are the ethics during an interview?
As anyone will tell you, it is very important to maintain eye contact while speaking. Speak clearly and confidently. Above all, mind your language and always maintain a form of respect to the interviewers. The interviewers may provoke you into an argument, but whatever you do, maintain your composure and always be aware that you're being judged as soon as you walk through the door until the point you walk out.
How will I be called if I qualify for the interview? Can I select the interview location?
You will be informed by a formal letter directly from the university. You may also check the call for interviews online. If you believe that your name might have been missed, you may call the school of architecture directly to inquire.
You may select the place for interview in the online UPU form. If for some reason you need to rearrange the date or location of the interview, you may do so by contacting the school directly. However, this depends on the school's ability to accommodate your new arrangement.
1.7. School specific questions
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1.7.1. Universiti Teknologi Malaysia
There are two UTMs, one in Kuala Lumpur and the other in Skudai, Johor. Where is the architecture course conducted?Architecture course is conducted at both branches, but at different levels. UTM KL conducts the diploma school (sub-Part 1) while UTM Skudai conducts the degree (Part 2) and post-graduate schools.
Do UTM architectural diploma holders have priority to continue into UTM's architectural degree programme?Yes. UTM degree school has a special allocation to accommodate outstanding UTM diploma holders. This is determined by the diploma school (UTM KL), whom will recommend a list of students that satisfies the requirement to join UTM degree school at 3rd year level. Other diploma holders will join UTM at 2nd year, and sometimes 2nd year 2nd semester the most.
Last time I heard UTM conducts a 5 year programme. Why can't I find it anymore?The 5 year programme have been discontinued beginning Sept 2011 intake. In its place, UTM offers the 3 year BSc in Architecture (LAM Part 1), and a Masters in Architecture (LAM Part 2). The total duration is still 5 years, but the advantage is now you will end up with a Masters degree (similar to the Australian system).
1.7.2. Universiti Teknologi MARA
There are several UiTMs in Malaysia. Where is the architecture course conducted?There are currently two schools of architecture in UiTM. One is in the main campus in Shah Alam, and the other is in Sri Iskandar campus in Perak.
1.7.3. International Islamic University Malaysia
UIAM is only for Muslims. How true is this statement?It is actually not true. Contrary to certain beliefs, UIAM is not exclusive for Muslims only. It is a university that focuses on Islam in various aspects: academic approach and context, the way of life, socio-cultural relationships, research, history and philosophy and so on. Studying there does mean you will learn a great deal about Islam, but you don't have to be a Muslim to do so.
This post has been edited by azarimy: Feb 5 2015, 12:34 PM