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 So you're interested in ARCHITECTURE? Version 3, A guide to becoming an Architect

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lululale P
post Jun 19 2022, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(azarimy @ Jan 24 2022, 08:55 PM)
Nowadays, part 2 should start at around 2.5k, in big cities like KL should be around 2.8k. Mainly because of the pandemic.
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Part 2 with 2.5k salary is seriously a joke. Ten years ago, graduate with part 1 qualification got 2.3k. Now, part 2 with bachelors degree (3 yrs) + 1 yr working experience + masters degree (2 yrs) worth only 2.5k. Pandemic shouldn't be used as a fig leaf to cover up the long-existing problems in this sickening industry. The boss can basically claim that they are teaching you how to do 'architecture' in the firm to justify the horrendously low salary they offer to you with unpaid OT and extremely long working hours (>60 hrs / week). While the registered architects in malaysia remain so low (2000+ for 30 mil population), the pass rate for part 3 exams ranges from 6.5% to 45% (this number is VERY ABNORMAL), with an average of 20%, the industry now is basically full of numerous STUBBORN AND OLD-FASHIONED architects that think that you should have experienced what they have experienced before (countless of unpaid OTs + low pay) because that's what they have gone through. The educational route for architecture (3 yrs bachelor + 1 yr work + 2 yrs masters +2 yr work) took 8 years until you can sit for the exam, however, the pay you got is inversely proportional to the time & money you have invested in your study. I really wonder why is the part 3 pass rate so low in malaysia while in the uk part 3 pass rate remains over 85%. While claiming malaysia needs more architects, I think what LAM does is to deter all the architecture graduates so that the old ones can continue to dominate the industry, and continue to exploit the new generations.

There are many underlying problems in this industry, eg BIM is still not prevalent in most of the firms, which makes us ALWAYS rush for the drawings during tender stage, working almost 24/7 just because client/architect requires a 'minimal' change on the design. While in the UK, there is a living wage requirement for RIBA chartered practice, there is no institution to govern this. I see firms paying RM600 to interns and expect them to work OT everyday, paying RM2000 to Part 1 in KL w/o EPF & SOCSO. Funny that some companies claim their benefits to be 'EPF&SOCSO provided'. It should be a mandatory offer instead of 'benefits' as if they are real benefits.

PS: I am not saying the system in the UK is perfect. I know they are OT & low salary issues in the UK as well. But at least, RIBA is doing something to improve the situation. The whole process of obtaining part 3 (schools providing part 3 pg diploma/ guidance from the architect in the firm / study leave & exam fee provided by the firm mostly) is transparent and referenceable in the UK.

"We just do not have the numbers of ‘certified knowledge workers’ [read, professional architects] to go by with, and it doesn’t help to think that this is because our Pt 3 Exam is of an exceedingly high standard. For some strange reason or another, we seem to pride ourselves into thinking that we must make it difficult for new candidates to join the ‘established elite’ of professional architects, and so the exams are seemingly made very difficult to pass." from (www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam) concludes what has been happening in Malaysia for years.

References:

www.architecture.com/-/media/gathercontent/education-statistics/additional-documents/educationstatistics201516pdf.pdf
www.pam.org.my/images/publications/ba2015/jul2015/Berita-akitek-jul-2015.pdf
www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam
architecture.com/knowledge-and-resources/knowledge-landing-page/living-wage-requirement-for-riba-chartered-practices
earshore
post Sep 21 2022, 02:07 AM

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QUOTE(lululale @ Jun 19 2022, 03:51 PM)
Part 2 with 2.5k salary is seriously a joke. Ten years ago, graduate with part 1 qualification got 2.3k. Now, part 2 with bachelors degree (3 yrs) + 1 yr working experience + masters degree (2 yrs) worth only 2.5k. Pandemic shouldn't be used as a fig leaf to cover up the long-existing problems in this sickening industry. The boss can basically claim that they are teaching you how to do 'architecture' in the firm to justify the horrendously low salary they offer to you with unpaid OT and extremely long working hours (>60 hrs / week). While the registered architects in malaysia remain so low (2000+ for 30 mil population), the pass rate for part 3 exams ranges from 6.5% to 45% (this number is VERY ABNORMAL), with an average of 20%, the industry now is basically full of numerous STUBBORN AND OLD-FASHIONED architects that think that you should have experienced what they have experienced before (countless of unpaid OTs + low pay) because that's what they have gone through. The educational route for architecture (3 yrs bachelor + 1 yr work + 2 yrs masters +2 yr work) took 8 years until you can sit for the exam, however, the pay you got is inversely proportional to the time & money you have invested in your study. I really wonder why is the part 3 pass rate so low in malaysia while in the uk part 3 pass rate remains over 85%. While claiming malaysia needs more architects, I think what LAM does is to deter all the architecture graduates so that the old ones can continue to dominate the industry, and continue to exploit the new generations.

There are many underlying problems in this industry, eg BIM is still not prevalent in most of the firms, which makes us ALWAYS rush for the drawings during tender stage, working almost 24/7 just because client/architect requires a 'minimal' change on the design. While in the UK, there is a living wage requirement for RIBA chartered practice, there is no institution to govern this. I see firms paying RM600 to interns and expect them to work OT everyday, paying RM2000 to Part 1 in KL w/o EPF & SOCSO. Funny that some companies claim their benefits to be 'EPF&SOCSO provided'. It should be a mandatory offer instead of 'benefits' as if they are real benefits.

PS: I am not saying the system in the UK is perfect. I know they are OT & low salary issues in the UK as well. But at least, RIBA is doing something to improve the situation. The whole process of obtaining part 3 (schools providing part 3 pg diploma/ guidance from the architect in the firm / study leave & exam fee provided by the firm mostly) is transparent and referenceable in the UK.

"We just do not have the numbers of ‘certified knowledge workers’ [read, professional architects] to go by with, and it doesn’t help to think that this is because our Pt 3 Exam is of an exceedingly high standard. For some strange reason or another, we seem to pride ourselves into thinking that we must make it difficult for new candidates to join the ‘established elite’ of professional architects, and so the exams are seemingly made very difficult to pass." from (www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam) concludes what has been happening in Malaysia for years.

References:

www.architecture.com/-/media/gathercontent/education-statistics/additional-documents/educationstatistics201516pdf.pdf
www.pam.org.my/images/publications/ba2015/jul2015/Berita-akitek-jul-2015.pdf
www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam
architecture.com/knowledge-and-resources/knowledge-landing-page/living-wage-requirement-for-riba-chartered-practices
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informative post. I learnt something
Sunzal94 P
post Sep 21 2022, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Jan 24 2022, 05:50 PM)
What is the average starting pay for fresh architect grads in Malaysia?
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As a part 2, on average my peers and I started with 3.6-4k as fresh grad in kl. Pandemic has caused some salary cuts but it's back to normal now. With 3 years experience, most of us are earning 5-6k but I know there are many who earns around 4 - 5k even with 5 years experience.

Part 1 fresh grad around 2.5k, good ones can go up to 2.8-3k in some offices.


prophetjul
post Sep 21 2022, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(Sunzal94 @ Sep 21 2022, 02:03 PM)
As a part 2, on average my peers and I started with 3.6-4k as fresh grad in kl. Pandemic has caused some salary cuts but it's back to normal now. With 3 years experience, most of us are earning 5-6k but I know there are many who earns around 4 - 5k even with 5 years experience.

Part 1 fresh grad around 2.5k, good ones can go up to 2.8-3k in some offices.
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Good to know that this industry is normalising from the pandemic. thumbup.gif
TSazarimy
post Sep 21 2022, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Sep 21 2022, 02:19 PM)
Good to know that this industry is normalising from the pandemic.  thumbup.gif
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Yup, the industry seems to be returning back to normal, although the economy seems to be down at the moment particularly due to poor ringgit.

Interestingly, a number of my friends who've been doing design projects (focusing on design, not necessarily building it) have been getting lots of overseas offers. So because of weakening ringgit, other countries with stronger currency can afford paying Msian companies to design for them.
05jun P
post Oct 4 2022, 10:43 PM

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Hello, I want to pursue architecture in UTM. Looking at my options, UTM's foundation program is where I'm likely headed towards.

SPM - appy for UTM foundation - degree

Does this pathway work? Searched UTM Space's website and there seems to be no mention of what degree I can take after foundation, quite puzzled :/

TSazarimy
post Oct 4 2022, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(05jun @ Oct 4 2022, 10:43 PM)
Hello, I want to pursue architecture in UTM. Looking at my options, UTM's foundation program is where I'm likely headed towards.

SPM - appy for UTM foundation - degree

Does this pathway work? Searched UTM Space's website and there seems to be no mention of what degree I can take after foundation, quite puzzled :/
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Hi. In general, UTM foundation is geared for all degree programmes in UTM. So yes, it is a viable path to study architecture in UTM.
justapawn
post May 30 2023, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(lululale @ Jun 19 2022, 03:51 PM)
Part 2 with 2.5k salary is seriously a joke. Ten years ago, graduate with part 1 qualification got 2.3k. Now, part 2 with bachelors degree (3 yrs) + 1 yr working experience + masters degree (2 yrs) worth only 2.5k. Pandemic shouldn't be used as a fig leaf to cover up the long-existing problems in this sickening industry. The boss can basically claim that they are teaching you how to do 'architecture' in the firm to justify the horrendously low salary they offer to you with unpaid OT and extremely long working hours (>60 hrs / week). While the registered architects in malaysia remain so low (2000+ for 30 mil population), the pass rate for part 3 exams ranges from 6.5% to 45% (this number is VERY ABNORMAL), with an average of 20%, the industry now is basically full of numerous STUBBORN AND OLD-FASHIONED architects that think that you should have experienced what they have experienced before (countless of unpaid OTs + low pay) because that's what they have gone through. The educational route for architecture (3 yrs bachelor + 1 yr work + 2 yrs masters +2 yr work) took 8 years until you can sit for the exam, however, the pay you got is inversely proportional to the time & money you have invested in your study. I really wonder why is the part 3 pass rate so low in malaysia while in the uk part 3 pass rate remains over 85%. While claiming malaysia needs more architects, I think what LAM does is to deter all the architecture graduates so that the old ones can continue to dominate the industry, and continue to exploit the new generations.

There are many underlying problems in this industry, eg BIM is still not prevalent in most of the firms, which makes us ALWAYS rush for the drawings during tender stage, working almost 24/7 just because client/architect requires a 'minimal' change on the design. While in the UK, there is a living wage requirement for RIBA chartered practice, there is no institution to govern this. I see firms paying RM600 to interns and expect them to work OT everyday, paying RM2000 to Part 1 in KL w/o EPF & SOCSO. Funny that some companies claim their benefits to be 'EPF&SOCSO provided'. It should be a mandatory offer instead of 'benefits' as if they are real benefits.

PS: I am not saying the system in the UK is perfect. I know they are OT & low salary issues in the UK as well. But at least, RIBA is doing something to improve the situation. The whole process of obtaining part 3 (schools providing part 3 pg diploma/ guidance from the architect in the firm / study leave & exam fee provided by the firm mostly) is transparent and referenceable in the UK.

"We just do not have the numbers of ‘certified knowledge workers’ [read, professional architects] to go by with, and it doesn’t help to think that this is because our Pt 3 Exam is of an exceedingly high standard. For some strange reason or another, we seem to pride ourselves into thinking that we must make it difficult for new candidates to join the ‘established elite’ of professional architects, and so the exams are seemingly made very difficult to pass." from (www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam) concludes what has been happening in Malaysia for years.

References:

www.architecture.com/-/media/gathercontent/education-statistics/additional-documents/educationstatistics201516pdf.pdf
www.pam.org.my/images/publications/ba2015/jul2015/Berita-akitek-jul-2015.pdf
www.aajily.tumblr.com/post/8473325674/hanya-9-lulus-lam-part-3-exam
architecture.com/knowledge-and-resources/knowledge-landing-page/living-wage-requirement-for-riba-chartered-practices
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This post has been almost a year. The same thing happen in MEP/M&E field in Malaysia. I think this applies to C&S field as well. Thanks for telling the truth to the public.....

AnAngel65
post Jun 1 2023, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(justapawn @ May 30 2023, 12:25 PM)
This post has been almost a year. The same thing happen in MEP/M&E field in Malaysia. I think this applies to C&S field as well. Thanks for telling the truth to the public.....
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Funny thing, this is the post that I've been reading and asking back when I graduated SPM and seeking for my major to study before entering university, and yet 10 years later back I was at this post reading about the sad truth and reality about this field is.....

I guess those who stayed in this field would be for interest, I don't see how else one can hold up to this norm and work life. I've been very certain that I have no interest in architecture nor design since the 2nd year in uni, found the perseverance to tough it out, didnt find the courgae to switch course haha.
justapawn
post Jun 2 2023, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(AnAngel65 @ Jun 1 2023, 10:28 AM)
Funny thing, this is the post that I've been reading and asking back when I graduated SPM and seeking for my major to study before entering university, and yet 10 years later back I was at this post reading about the sad truth and reality about this field is.....

I guess those who stayed in this field would be for interest, I don't see how else one can hold up to this norm and work life. I've been very certain that I have no interest in architecture nor design since the 2nd year in uni, found the perseverance to tough it out, didnt find the courgae to switch course haha.
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One of my architect friend is getting freelance jobs from oversea in an online platform called "Upwork".....
Perhaps you can build up your career in this way....
AnAngel65
post Jun 2 2023, 09:08 AM

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QUOTE(justapawn @ Jun 2 2023, 12:06 AM)
One of my architect friend is getting freelance jobs from oversea in an online platform called "Upwork".....
Perhaps you can build up your career in this way....
*
Thanks for the reply and suggestion. I did try Upwork, and yes its a way of getting oversea freelance job, especially those with high drafting and design skills.
There are huge competition but if you have a good portfolio or you are willing to go lower fees then you could land a few jobs in a month.

However, I am not into design or drafting... but that's another topic I wouldn't wanna drag this post far. Nonetheless, those who are interested in architecture and design can still pursue, embrace yourself with the situation and market, nothing is easy, just have to find one that all hardship is worth it and at the end of the day, puts a smile on your face..
fourzee
post Aug 29 2023, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(justapawn @ May 30 2023, 12:25 PM)
This post has been almost a year. The same thing happen in MEP/M&E field in Malaysia. I think this applies to C&S field as well. Thanks for telling the truth to the public.....
*
As a result most of our so called professional architects are exam orientated and lacks experience and basic knowledge in architecture, they treat the PAM part 3 exam like any other exams, studied hard memorizing answers etc and when they passed the exam able to sign off plans for money ..that's all.. No Quality at all ..and since we are closed market, no foreign architects can come and practice here there is no competition ..
TSazarimy
post Aug 29 2023, 08:51 PM

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QUOTE(fourzee @ Aug 29 2023, 06:13 PM)
As a result most of our so called professional architects are exam orientated and lacks experience and basic knowledge in architecture, they treat the PAM part 3 exam like any other exams, studied hard memorizing answers etc and when they passed the exam able to sign off plans for money ..that's all.. No Quality at all ..and since we are closed market, no foreign architects can come and practice here there is no competition ..
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Have you taken the LAM part 3 exam?
justapawn
post Sep 2 2023, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(fourzee @ Aug 29 2023, 06:13 PM)
As a result most of our so called professional architects are exam orientated and lacks experience and basic knowledge in architecture, they treat the PAM part 3 exam like any other exams, studied hard memorizing answers etc and when they passed the exam able to sign off plans for money ..that's all.. No Quality at all ..and since we are closed market, no foreign architects can come and practice here there is no competition ..
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Yes, what you said really happen but I don't fully agree with it. In Malaysia, there are still many architects who are really passionate and dedicated to produce quality work regardless chartered or not. However, those mega projects in Malaysia (like KLCC twin towers and Merdeka 118) are not designed and managed by our local consulting firm. I believe our local professionals are still very much inferior to those international firm like SOM and OMA.

This post has been edited by justapawn: Sep 4 2023, 05:19 AM

 

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