Err no, they don't. And for casual conversations, the level of English hardly matters. Some international students write very well but have a hard time stringing sentences in speech, that doesn't matter. And honestly, does anyone not use colloquial language when they're speaking. And I guarantee you, even if someone ended every sentence with "la" it wouldn't hinder the conversation one bit, they'd just get used to it. In fact, even if you pronounce the word wrong, they'd get it, cause language is flexible. You can say fla for flour, sal-men for salmon and they'd still get you despite the large difference. If they have negative prejudices against international people, that's one thing, but if they're willing to be friendly from the beginning, language is their least concern.

That's pretty true as well. Okay, let me revise my sentence. MOST of them have competent level of English, on paper, if not in real life situations. I do know a few people who have really bad English upon arrival in the States, eventhough they're 'bright' students fully sponsored by the government to study in Northwestern and Syracuse. I have no idea how they managed to get in with their rudimentary English.

As for myself, I do sometimes let slip a 'lah' loose (out of habit), but my white friends have taken a liking to it and even sometimes say 'lah' when speaking to me. Language is indeed not a barrier. In the end it all boils down to the individual.

because u feel disgust just because ur own kind wants to stick among themselves more.. errr, studying overseas means studying, not making friends overseas... to get a better education? errr, msians are multi-cultural in the 1st place... come on you're living so long with foreigners dont tell me their culture is not diff? accepting and understanding is enough.. you dont have to force yourself to follow or even be like them.. face prob? come on la, kopitiam is the other side --->>>

so if there's no forcing why go and force yourself and others? as long as you're comfortable there, it doesnt matter whether u are mingling around with foreigners or not? it is not an excuse in the 1st place but trying to explain to you that there're several reasons why people prefer to mingle among themselves most of the time.. msians have a right to choose, if they choose to mingle among themselves who are you to say they should do this and should do that?

errr, to receive white ppl's education but not to go and hangout with them... and even if msians choose to mingle with them, it is their own choice, not on your accord all msians that go overseas must mingle with foreigners

obama

Emma Watson at Brown University
Natalie Portman (was) at Harvard University

you're still making excuses for malaysians who spend thousands and thousands of ringgit to get an overseas education to hang out with fellow malaysians. I don't tell them what to do, I just say what I THINK they should do. SO defensive you. They want to waste their parents' money doing what they can do in Malaysia, then by all means let them do what they want.

I think they're wasting money. Go overseas, spend 2-3 years there and then come back with a Malaysian girlfriend/boyfriend and then continue complaining that they're stuck in Malaysia.

I WONDER WHY

This post has been edited by spunkberry: Apr 11 2011, 12:22 AM

i am going there soon, and i one of the main reasons why i am going(besides studying) is to experience new things and meet new people. regardless if youre send there by your parents or scholarships i am pretty sure they woudlnt want you to remain in your comfort zone and only sticks with malaysians. since youre there why not mixed around? so you can see more and experience.

however, i do believe that cultural difference might hinder your effort in making new friends. and i am not talking about language barriers here. for example muslims have a lot of restrictions. cannot drink, no touching man-woman, eat only halal food etc. so it would be difficult for them to participate in a lot of social activities since bar is a common hangout place. plus eating is another issues since alot of sociallizing happens during meals its already a negative point.

it also depends what level of friendship is in perspective. is it a hi-h-, bye-bye kind of friends you only meet in class? is it a only academic related (assignments, study) type of friends? or it is the friends who you spend most of the time with hanging out, shopping, movies etc? because if youre talking about the later it would require a lot of compromising from the both party? would they not hangout in bars? would they only eat at halal restaurant? since friendship is based on similarities of interest this can be a major drawback would you think so? if a definition of "fun" differ from one individual to another. maybe being friends is not fun anymore?

i am not saying this can be used as excuses. but it would require a lot compromising and understanding for both side. difficult but can be done. so MAYBE labelling them "disgusting" is a bit harsh.


anyways, i strongly feel sport is the best bonding tools. maybe its the easiest way to start making new friends

you make it sound like it's such a difficult thing to do lol if anything, Americans find different cultures FASCINATING. As for the Muslim cannot touch man-woman all that jazz, as if our generation abides by that anymore. Most of my Muslim friends drink and smoke ... why should going to the US make that any different?

my point is: cultures differences MIGHT be a drawback in making good friends as it requires a lot compomising from both party.

dont pin points on individuals. i am talking as whole here. if for example you dont abides the islamic rules anymore my arguments wouldnt be valid on you anymore.

besides don't assume all muslims are your friends

true, they're not all my friends, but just observing others too. Meh there are always the few devout ones that I respect very much

okay now THAT is ignorant, there are many malaysian muslims who do abide by those rules. if you know malaysian muslims(well, practically malays) culture well enough then you'd know what you said was blatant generalization. Just because you know a couple of people who don't doesn't mean it represents everyone.

you don't seem to see it from their side, some people find other things more difficult than other people do.

I'm not in for the 'disgusting' deabte but...you have a few misconceptions. I feel it's partly due to the mass media.

First, many people go to the bars on Saturday, after exams, freer weeks and such, but it's not like the bar is the de facto hanging out place. Most people hangout on campus, the dorms and local restaurants, not the bar. Not everyone drinks. The people who actually party are even rarer. No one needs to mix with that crowd if it isn't their thing. And I mean even for people who drink and party, it's not like they are doing it 24/7.

I'm not saying their all nice and good, like any place in the world, you can find saints and angels down to bastards and b****es. But there are enough friendly people around.

And just because you're friends it doesn't mean you need to hangout with them 24/7. If one likes movies, then go for movies, but one might not like football, then just skip the football game. It doesn't mean ditching Malaysian, but it means not living in a Malaysian coconut shell exclusively. Of course we're Malaysians, and we should get acquainted with the Malaysia there and be friends with them. We can promote out culture and language too and we can always invite them to our place for Malaysian festivities.

There are ALOT of Jews in US and the religious ones also follow all kinds of strict rules like Muslims. I don't see them complaining about making friends? ANy Muslim person can easily friends Americans who will go out of the way to a halal restaurant, or hangout at an ice-creame shop or drink shop or buy stuff from the halal shop to cook.

Yea it requires compromising and understanding, everything does, even here in Malaysia. It's not doing anything unusual or bizarre by being compromising. And like spunkberry said, Americans are crazy over Asian culture. Sometimes you wonder why Malaysia has so many tourist right? They just like it, seeing different things. If you tell them you're from Malaysia, the first thing they'll say it "wow cool" but they don't even know where Malaysia is. But as it goes along they'll take an interest in it.

And again, by no means I think it's all roses. Sure I've experience discrimination and such before. But I really don't see it as a hindrance, and I think having that mindset keeps one for being really open to other people.

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Added on April 11, 2011, 12:53 amSee, why does it require "alot" of compromising? Do you feel like you're giving up a whole lot by not eating char siew with your Malay friends? Do you think you Malays are giving up alot when they hear Chinese and Indian people speak Malay in their accents?

I'm not arguing with you about me being right and you being wrong. I'm saying that some implicit attitudes like this, feeling "alot" when there really isn't alot of compromising does make it harder to make friends. People may not be consciously aware of everything they do, but the amount of smiles, the way we smile, the tone of our voice and alot of body language comes into play. This is believe is far more of a hindrance to making friends than language or culture can ever be.

I've nothing to gain or lose by arguing here, so that's not my reason of posting, I do sincerely wish they you guys who will be spending a hell lot of money on your education get the most out of the cultural experience. That you'll make close friends from all over the world, not just US, who you'll be calling back 10 years from now. A Lot of people do come here with ideal of making friends and such but suddenly fall back to their own culture pocket, why because they really have some mental block in going out, and not everyone realizes it or even wants to admit it. I'm not free from that either.

This post has been edited by mumeichan: Apr 11 2011, 01:00 AM

well first of all, I agreed with rokai when he called me out on generalizing based on a small sampling so I don't know why you're still biting my head off - maybe because you didn't read what I said. What I'm saying is not only based off what my friends do but also what I see other people do. I agree with you that there are still those that are devout, also what I said in my response to rokai, and I respect them highly.

A lot of Malaysians claim to be open-minded and accepting, yet shun MY ways of thinking and call me white-washed. I wonder who really is open-minded?

thank you very much.

This post has been edited by spunkberry: Apr 11 2011, 12:58 AM

Or maybe it's because he replied while i was still typing? thanks for the assumption though.

you mean I replied, and I changed my response to be less provocative but I suppose you still want to continue? I'm at least making an effort now.

Anyway, I stand by what I said earlier about Malaysians sticking with Malaysians overseas annoying me, and I'm not imposing that on anybody. It's my opinion, and I doubt I'm the only one in the whole world who thinks like this.

This post has been edited by spunkberry: Apr 11 2011, 01:17 AM

great pov. ditto!

hahaha. my arguments is on culture difference in respective of muslim believer. i dont know why you made it a "malay" thing. i see you have "somethings" againts the malays. i seriously woudlnt want to go into that. lets keep it a healthy thread

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Added on April 11, 2011, 1:34 amgood. i have no issue with that. i am just stating out points from a different perspective. and it doesnt need to echo everyone here

This post has been edited by rokai88: Apr 11 2011, 01:37 AM

rokai: I don't think she's making it a malay thing, she's just pulling examples that so happen to be that

I'm sorry if it sounded like a 'malay thing' to you. I really didn't intend that.

Wow, looks like there's been a hot debate going on in this thread!

Personally, I don't really intend to be clinging around Malaysians in the US. I don't hate them, in fact I would be more than happy to meet some of them in the States. It's be nice if I had some Malaysian friends to celebrate Hari Raya with, considering my family won't be there.

I just feel that being in United States, we should mingle with their people and people of a culture foreign to us. Sure, we are all free to decide who we want to hang out with - but why limit ourselves to only Malaysians? I definitely did not go to USA to hang around Malaysians - I am going there because I want to experience a different culture and hang out with people from all walks of life.

I won't be seeing much of Malaysian students in San Francisco, I doubt there are many enrolled in the city, if not the Bay Area. As far as I am concerned, the nearest schools with MSAs are Stanford and USC.

there's no need to hate Malaysians, I never said I did. But it's good that you intend to mingle around ... I kinda got tired of the whole "I went overseas but I came back with a Malaysian boyfriend/girlfriend and now I want to complain for the rest of my life that I'm stuck in Malaysia" deal lol

spending $$$ is their personal matter, getting an overseas education is the emphasis, hanging out with foreigners or not is just secondary.. of course they should, but it is up to them.. i are not defensive whether it is a waste or not only the future can decide.. in msia you dont have top notch schools, instead in msia you have plenty of ang mohs you can hangout with if you want to.. especially when they are raring for asian girls

so you think going overseas then coming back with a foreign partner is a success? whether or not they hang out with foreigners and whether or not they migrate is 2 diff matters... well, if they complain then that's their prob

why? i dunno lol...

of course if you limit yourself then you're anti-social.. you dont go and purposely just stick to your own fellow country or the other way around purposely go and stick with foreigners... just do whats comfortable to you, that way you will have a better experience

you will be surprised at how many asians are there in san fran... lol, it is asian town there... usc in LA ler, i think u mean ucsf? actually berkeley is nearby too...
errrr, disgust?

lol, it is up to them to complain lor... are you going to stay in the state and work there after graduation?

Yeah, these scenarios are definitely the norm for those who came back here.. nobody asked them to return to Malaysia! Haha! My dad's friend married a fellow Malaysian that he met as they were the same batch that were sponsored to SIU Carbondale, if I'm not mistaken. They stayed there, became citizens, and now both their children are born and raised in America as well as pursuing their studies in top-notch places like Carnegie Mellon and Penn State.

Yes, I agree.

I know how many Asians are there in San Francisco.. California is the melting pot of Asians in America. I think you didn't get what I meant, I meant specifically Malaysians. There are many PRC, Taiwanese, Japanese and Koreans in San Francisco, there's even the famous Chinatown there.

No, I didn't specify the schools to be in San Francisco either - I was just referencing to schools around the Bay Area (or California, for that matter) that have Malaysian Student Associations. UC Berkeley probably has one, but I know that both Stanford and USC have their own MSAs.