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Financial Are property prices going to drop? V2, The heated debate continues

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SUSUFO-ET
post Jun 22 2011, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(GangHo @ Jun 22 2011, 02:59 PM)
In Malaysia & current context, I would say that the main cause for the property price appreciation is speculation.
However, it is true to say that inflation would affect affordability. We would have less disposable income to buy property. Therefore, it could cause the property to go down as well.

Added on June 22, 2011, 3:15 pm
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Urbanization is getting serious in Malaysia, especially Chinese young generation prefer city life. In those days fr 1990-2000, still can see many graduates went back to their home state to work.
Secondly, the reducing in family size also indirectly increase the affordability of young buyers, FAMA contributes a lot

IMHO, it is very easy to say that mkt will drop, somehow someday it will become reality, I can give a statement like that as well. But for a so called property guru, it is VERY irresponsible to simply give a statement like that, an property expert shd dare to predict the ACTUAL correction date (year), or which sector, which area, % of dropping / increase, dun get fooled by these "experts"

sampool
post Jun 22 2011, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Jun 22 2011, 04:57 PM)
Urbanization is getting serious in Malaysia, especially Chinese young generation prefer city life. In those days fr 1990-2000, still can see many graduates went back to their home state to work.
Secondly, the reducing in family size also indirectly increase the affordability of young buyers, FAMA contributes a lot

IMHO, it is very easy to say that mkt will drop, somehow someday it will become reality, I can give a statement like that as well. But for a so called property guru, it is VERY irresponsible to simply give a statement like that, an property expert shd dare to predict the ACTUAL correction date (year), or which sector, which area, % of dropping / increase, dun get fooled by these "experts"
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ur question is like asking a remiser which stock will jump up and which stock will crash... it is again a thousand billion dollars answers..

i mean if he is so good.. not need give lesson lioa loh... he can to himself to be billionaire... or provide free training to public for charity if so success...

This post has been edited by sampool: Jun 22 2011, 04:23 PM
stevenlee
post Jun 22 2011, 04:16 PM

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as we can see....
alot so call "guru" say property will drop due to government implement 1malaysia home in KL and Penang...
but i still see property are rising...
most of the developer are very clever...
i already notice 3 area in Penang where they make the area in to several phase but same design..
they will launch phase 1 cheap then rise a bit on phase 2 then again on phase 3...
thus those buy the house during phase 1 will be benefit a lot...

second, i heard mostly ppl say BLR will increase will also reduce buying rate...
but when we look back, BLR is increase and also -BLR also increase thus make no different whistling.gif
SUSUFO-ET
post Jun 22 2011, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(sampool @ Jun 22 2011, 04:12 PM)
ur question is like asking a remiser which stock will jump up and which stock will crash... it is again a thousand billion dollars answers..
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Precisely, otherwise dun claim as expert. I dun like ambiguous answer.

This post has been edited by UFO-ET: Jun 22 2011, 04:34 PM
GangHo
post Jun 22 2011, 04:23 PM

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QUOTE(UFO-ET @ Jun 22 2011, 04:57 PM)
Urbanization is getting serious in Malaysia, especially Chinese young generation prefer city life. In those days fr 1990-2000, still can see many graduates went back to their home state to work.
Secondly, the reducing in family size also indirectly increase the affordability of young buyers, FAMA contributes a lot

IMHO, it is very easy to say that mkt will drop, somehow someday it will become reality, I can give a statement like that as well. But for a so called property guru, it is VERY irresponsible to simply give a statement like that, an property expert shd dare to predict the ACTUAL correction date (year), or which sector, which area, % of dropping / increase, dun get fooled by these "experts"
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It is not easy to predict. Even the famous Nouriel Roubini’s prediction, the poll result is but 50:50

It's always very RESPONSIBLE for us to take cautious stand less we fall beyond recovery. This is the warning to Millions of American before the tragedy strikes.

Individually we have to equip ourselves with financial knowledge, sensitive about the global economy condition, country economy condition and full information about our own investment so that we can make maximum return during good times and still come out unharmed during bad times.

Global economic condition that we need to pay attention is QE3, FED Meeting today, Europe sovereign debts issues, Japanese recovery, China growth and the growth of Asia & South East Asia.

Country condition that we need to pay attention is Malaysia economic fundamentals, Malaysian General Election by end of the year? Investment of Middle East in Malaysia and Middle East condition.

Once individual is equipped with necessary knowledge, he should be responsible himself to filter all wrong information and consider the correct information.

Let's continue to debate until we get more and more knowledgeable and able to SEE things clearer each day. And in the end turn out to be champions and in the same time, our country is also the champion.
CKHong
post Jun 22 2011, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(stevenlee @ Jun 22 2011, 04:16 PM)
but when we look back, BLR is increase and also -BLR also increase thus make no different  whistling.gif
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-BLR now stuck with 2.4 :'( i heard bankers said that now all bank stop throwing the -BLR. All seems like cooperate among each other..
Maybe banks know that they can't afford to give more discount..
cherroy
post Jun 22 2011, 04:47 PM

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QUOTE(CKHong @ Jun 22 2011, 04:44 PM)
-BLR now stuck with 2.4    :'(  i heard bankers said that now all bank stop throwing the -BLR. All seems like cooperate among each other..
Maybe banks know that they can't afford to give more discount..
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When SRR being raised, cost of money for banks will rise, so they cannot offer more -BLR rate.

SRR is still way below historical average.
GangHo
post Jun 22 2011, 04:52 PM

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QUOTE(CKHong @ Jun 22 2011, 05:44 PM)
-BLR now stuck with 2.4    :'(  i heard bankers said that now all bank stop throwing the -BLR. All seems like cooperate among each other..
Maybe banks know that they can't afford to give more discount..
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I have got better offer than 2.4 from 2 different bankers and it is during beginning of the year.
CKHong
post Jun 22 2011, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(GangHo @ Jun 22 2011, 04:52 PM)
I have got better offer than 2.4 from 2 different bankers and it is during beginning of the year.
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ohh.. i got 2.5 first year 2.4 the following
what i mean is whole tenure.. now seems like stucked at 2.4 cry.gif
AVFAN
post Jun 22 2011, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(GangHo @ Jun 22 2011, 03:57 PM)
I do hope that our government has got a risk mitigation plan should things go really bad.

Judging from current scenario, I would strongly believe that the contribution of property sector to our GDP has increased a lot over the years. How great the effect if things go really bad? Somebody can share their prediction?

impt point. one only needs to see why gomen and bnm are:
1. so quick in approving/awarding lrt-mrt projects, megatower
2. good guy bad guy play in dishing out prop loans
no prediction but just looking at the rate of household debt and incr and gdp, prop constr is a major contributor.
i wud think if launches and constr are reduced by half, gdp may dwindle to 2-3%.
stop lrt-mrt-towers, may even slip into recession...
bolehsia's living on sex videos and race politics, our neighbors have handsome agriculture exports, tourist $ and fdi.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Jun 22 2011, 05:21 PM
Chronox
post Jun 22 2011, 05:32 PM

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This is another interesting article:

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...1&if_height=642

According to the article, house price should be 3 - 4 times of one's annual income. In Klang Valley, average household income is RM6k. In a year, the household income is RM72k.

In other words, the average property price should be RM288k. Average transacted price in KL last year was RM488k, which is RM200k more. Who is pushing up the price? Speculators? Or perhaps, on average we earn more than RM6k? Hmmm...
GangHo
post Jun 22 2011, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(Chronox @ Jun 22 2011, 06:32 PM)
This is another interesting article:

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...1&if_height=642

According to the article, house price should be 3 - 4 times of one's annual income.  In Klang Valley, average household income is RM6k.  In a year, the household income is RM72k. 

In other words, the average property price should be RM288k.  Average transacted price in KL last year was RM488k, which is RM200k more.  Who is pushing up the price?  Speculators?  Or perhaps, on average we earn more than RM6k?  Hmmm...
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For a RM6K monthly income, 4.0% interest rates and loan tenure of 30 years, bank can loan you a total amount of RM630,000.00 and a possible house price of RM690K. It's more than 9 times annual income. However as one grow older, he/she would entitle less loan for the same annual income.

3-4 times of one's annual income is a safe guide for property purchase. However, many have stretched to maximum limit or at least more than 3-4 times of the annual income.

This post has been edited by GangHo: Jun 22 2011, 06:17 PM
AVFAN
post Jun 22 2011, 06:37 PM

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this may incr new home prices further but can people afford it?
why aren't some of the 20 odd mil mysians interested in constr and manual work?
so wealthy? too well taken care of? say no to jobs unless aircond?
a new era is coming, mysians can't go on like this...
gomen better wake up and stop lying!!


QUOTE
Foreign worker exodus to spark labour crunch

June 22, 2011

Malaysia’s appeal as a destination for manual jobs is waning as more employment opportunities open up in other Asian economies. — Reuters file pic
KUALA LUMPUR, June 22 — Indonesian plumber Yadi has been plying his trade in Malaysia since 2003, part of a two million-strong migrant labour force that forms the backbone of Kuala Lumpur’s plantations and construction industries.

But now, the 30-year old wants to go home as wages rise and job opportunities open up in Jakarta, a growing trend among Indonesian workers that analysts say could produce a labour crunch and slower economic growth for Malaysia.

“I have heard a lot from friends and relatives about jobs opening up in my home country, and if I can as easily earn just slightly less in a city like Jakarta compared to what I make now, I will go back,” said Yadi, who earns RM90 ringgita day as a plumber’s assistant.

From minding babies to erecting skyscrapers, Malaysia’s economy has been supported over the last three decades by a foreign workforce drawn mainly from Indonesia, the Philippines, Bangladesh and Nepal as an industrialisation drive created a wealth of low-paying jobs shunned by locals.

But as more employment opportunities open up in other Asian economies, Malaysia’s appeal as a destination for manual jobs is waning.

This, combined with a six-month government programme beginning in July to send home illegal workers, could result in an acute labour shortage.
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysi...-labour-crunch/


This post has been edited by AVFAN: Jun 22 2011, 06:45 PM
lch78
post Jun 22 2011, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(AVFAN @ Jun 22 2011, 07:37 PM)
this may incr new home prices further but can people afford it?
why aren't some of the 20 odd mil mysians interested in constr and manual work?
so wealthy? too well taken care of? say no to jobs unless aircond?
a new era is coming, mysians can't go on like this...
gomen better wake up and stop lying!!
*
Unfortunately this is true that there are limited Malaysians in the labourer sector. Bolehland has been addicted to foreign labourer for too long and the hook is too deep. In a sudden I don't think this scenario can be changed, not in a decade or 2.

If we visits the construction sites, only the indonesians working as the labourers. This is especially so in civil sector which is 99.999% indons, about 50% foreign labour in M&E works and only about 10% in architectural labour work. But the sad case is most of the locals in M&E and architectural labour works are mostly old timer, which in another decade or so, they will have retire as well.

The use of foreign labourers in construction has helped to drive down costs but at the same time also depress the wages of the locals. That is why we cannot move to high income nation when a cheaper alternative is just next door. To businesses, profits are all matter.

If we expel all the indons, the construction industry will come to an immediate halt and economy drops causing serious chain effects to other sectors. This is a systemic problem which there is no easy way out.

And we are only talking about the construction industry, there is the plantation sector which has worst addiction to foreign labourers, also domestic helpers, mamak restaurants, security guards, etc.

Demn if we do, demn if we don't....

This post has been edited by lch78: Jun 22 2011, 09:38 PM
GangHo
post Jun 22 2011, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(lch78 @ Jun 22 2011, 10:31 PM)
Unfortunately this is true that there are limited Malaysians in the labourer sector. Bolehland has been addicted to foreign labourer for too long and the hook is too deep. In a sudden I don't think this scenario can be changed, not in a decade or 2.

If we visits the construction sites, only the indonesians working as the labourers. This is especially so in civil sector which is 99.999% indons, about 50% foreign labour in M&E works and only about 10% in architectural labour work. But the sad case is most of the locals in M&E and architectural labour works are mostly old timer, which in another decade or so, they will have retire as well.

The use of foreign labourers in construction has helped to drive down costs but at the same time also depress the wages of the locals. That is why we cannot move to high income nation when a cheaper alternative is just next door. To businesses, profits are all matter.

If we expel all the indons, the construction industry will come to an immediate halt and economy drops causing serious chain effects to other sectors. This is a systemic problem which there is no easy way out.

And we are only talking about the construction industry, there is the plantation sector which has worst addiction to foreign labourers, also domestic helpers, mamak restaurants, security guards, etc.

Demn if we do, demn if we don't....
*
Our PaPa in the house is waiting for problem to arise then only try to solve it.

When the children see the problem and make noise, they ask you to shut up.

When got money, our Papa will spend and spend. And tell us not to question how he uses the money.

No money that time, ask from the children.

However, the children still say that he is good and responsible Papa and he takes care of the house.

This post has been edited by GangHo: Jun 22 2011, 09:49 PM
Chronox
post Jun 23 2011, 01:44 PM

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I have been looking at Kota Kemuning. Some of the properties were listed as RM500k++ about 1 month ago (Indah Residences to be exact), and just for the past 2 days, it is going for RM600k++. RM100k within 1 month? Is that reasonable? Who is pushing up the prices? Do we really have such big demand for housing? Then the next question is, will it ever drop? If it is not dropping, I really hope our salaries will increase faster than the increase in property price. Otherwise, we will never be able to afford buying our own houses anymore. But that is already the case in Shanghai and in Singapore.
lch78
post Jun 23 2011, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(Chronox @ Jun 23 2011, 02:44 PM)
I have been looking at Kota Kemuning.  Some of the properties were listed as RM500k++ about 1 month ago (Indah Residences to be exact), and just for the past 2 days, it is going for RM600k++.  RM100k within 1 month?  Is that reasonable?  Who is pushing up the prices?  Do we really have such big demand for housing?  Then the next question is, will it ever drop?  If it is not dropping, I really hope our salaries will increase faster than the increase in property price.  Otherwise, we will never be able to afford buying our own houses anymore.  But that is already the case in Shanghai and in Beijing Singapore.
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Singapore has HDB, which citizens/PR can purchase a HDB flat as long as you got married without need to pay downpayment and the installment can be paid direct through CPF money. In other words, citizens/PR only need to find a spouse and they get to own a home without utilizing personal funds.
kochin
post Jun 23 2011, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(lch78 @ Jun 23 2011, 02:05 PM)
Singapore has HDB, which citizens/PR can purchase a HDB flat as long as you got married without need to pay downpayment and the installment can be paid direct through CPF money. In other words, citizens/PR only need to find a spouse and they get to own a home without utilizing personal funds.
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anybody did a comparison between singaporeans 55yrs old versus malaysian 55yrs old scenario?

singaporean using CPF money to pay installment.
malaysian use their own money to pay installment.
at 55yrs old, which has better prospect?

does the malaysian who have more in their EPF better or singaporean who has 'withdrawed' their CPF monthly?
would the property price paid monthly serve a higher $$$?
lch78
post Jun 23 2011, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(kochin @ Jun 23 2011, 03:09 PM)
anybody did a comparison between singaporeans 55yrs old versus malaysian 55yrs old scenario?

singaporean using CPF money to pay installment.
malaysian use their own money to pay installment.
at 55yrs old, which has better prospect?

does the malaysian who have more in their EPF better or singaporean who has 'withdrawed' their CPF monthly?
would the property price paid monthly serve a higher $$$?
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Singapore CPF contribution is higher than EPF. If I remember correctly, personal contribution is 20% plus another 20+% from employer. Normally the combine income of a couple who bought a 400K prop in Singapore divided by 2 just need to pay a few hundred per person only for monthly instalment. The interest rate is super low as well (not sure what is the rate now).

The recent changes in EPF allowing similar withdrawals scheme, I suspect is copied from CPF as well. laugh.gif

This post has been edited by lch78: Jun 23 2011, 02:31 PM
Chronox
post Jun 23 2011, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(lch78 @ Jun 23 2011, 02:05 PM)
Singapore has HDB, which citizens/PR can purchase a HDB flat as long as you got married without need to pay downpayment and the installment can be paid direct through CPF money. In other words, citizens/PR only need to find a spouse and they get to own a home without utilizing personal funds.
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We are going to have our own scheme soon too... Announced by Najib recently, to cater to those who are starting out and cannot buy properties which are beyond reach now.

This is another interesting article dismissing the bubble. Interesting read, especially the chart which shows that for the past 10 years, the housing price in Malaysia has been growing, but never at all dip below zero into declining stage. Note however that this is based on average.

http://doc.research-and-analytics.csfb.com...AVcU7aWprtM8%3D


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