This is pve. And latency do affect pve. Period.

mentality.

Yes, but not to a great extent. I would only classify anything above 600ms to be horrid for raiding. And most of us here have 200-350ms, some guilds even have sponsored tunneling services.

^

true. but so long you're getting anything below 400-500 (which is highly possible even WITHOUT tunneling/vpn services) it doesn't.

and the TS post is implying, and assuming that you should be at least able to do at least that.

looking for 10 malaysian is not impossible...

im/my guild is an example, it consist of 7 real life friends, colleagues and family, 3 other i know them through this forum... 10.

well, dun get me wrong, i would like to see Malaysian guild being competitive. I'm trying to expand wow influence in Malaysia too, and i will definitely lend my hand if there's any such project.

Regarding the latency comment, it is merely directed to the TS saying latency ain't matter for PVE.

The truth is - It matter varrying between class and specs.

Since the thread also talking about being competitive, by using Paragon example, they min/max class composition just to edge that little advantage.

Latency will definitely affect PVE. And to get competitive, need to fix the latency first. I reckon anything not more than 350ms to be ok, anything above that, forget about competitive. Just my 2 cents.

Unless the question is, if latency is not an issue, can we do it. Yes

Also, by getting 10 malaysian in the guild wont work, u need 10 equally committed and skill ful players.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 05:42 PM

if the supposed target to be world first guild does fall apert from guild loot drama,
then we can discuss how to improve Efficiency pve script fight skill later in game PTR.

uber leet(targeted world 1st) raid guild spend most of their time in PTR learning the rope, less in-game.

remember guys, getting 10 man for a comment goal is not that hard(or easy)
in vanilla, you need 40 people to raid, and you need the "old specific raid spec"
people get kick out of raid at that time due to got spec a less efficentive dot effect(due to boss limited dots slot)

athenewins aka ForScience able to convince his friends(20? there even 2 horde helping) to grind with him for 5 straight hours on quick respawn mob, just for him only to be world 1st 85

so 10man is not real issue,

lantency, get tunneling/vpn services if you prefer a "better line"

boss guide, you learn this in PTR. hope fully you don't find a trick the GM consider as an exploit result in ban and miss your shot on world 1st.
remember LK 1st kill, rogue + engineer bomb, guild ban for 1 week.
latest the tw's STAR(i though they are actually china player who got tired of china wow's game between companies and high ranking china paliment drama and all re-roll in taiwan guild) have pointed there a exploit there los boss to take zero damage from raid boss aoe and hope blizz fix it.

time? 7th DEC 2010 world pendamic 'hello, boss ah, i got sick oh... what tim, sam, samantha also call in sick, coz we are same guil- i mean we spend alot of time together ma, got same sickness, can't come lah," /hangup.
ok overreacted, just take 4day leave.

then your done, do able, need time, efford, coordination, will/mindset, more kiasu.
less wrath babies, kiasi.

Since, we are in Bolehland, which is the master of theroycraft. Boleh.

Sure can, but what is the motivation?

How much ping are those top guilds facing?

Sometimes missing an interrupt by 1 second could means a wipe or near wipe

In BC, i know a lot of fights whether fail or success is determined by your latency and pc spec

This post has been edited by ChcGamer: Jan 25 2011, 05:28 PM

you probably did not raided vanilla WoW contents.

almost an hour long fights, wipe at the last 10% because one f***er didnt feel like not failing. 39 others /rage
oh hey lets not forget some encounters (lol nefarion. i bought counterstrike for 9.99 usd because of that) have lockout periods too.

and while i never personally raided c'thun. the videos should be enough to show how retarded that shit can be compared to say, yogg saron perhaps

good shit.

lets just say, BC is much more forgiving, and even further on WOTLK and then cata.
and while 1 person may fail, the other person could've cover. considering how almost everyone now have interrupts. lol @ streamlining classes. then there are dual specs.

Make sense, but not for this thread. U may explain on why it is easier nowadays to raid as compare to last time, which i decline to further comment. This still doesn't showcase or minimize the important of latency in PVE.

If 1 person fail while interrupting, your argument is where, other ppl can cover,

What about, if a person fail at stacking or fail at moving away from fire due to lag or that little latency inefficiency?

Who to cover?

Pls do not try to tell or explain latency not important for PVE any more. Maybe the TS want to ammend the original post a little bit, to say that assuming very good latency.

Can Malaysian gamer's skill par / outskill those in US or Europe?

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 05:57 PM

Some members of Stars TW actually play from the US. So 200-350ms give or take, which is pretty optimal while not perfect.
Blizzard did not design encounters that require superhuman reflexes. All encounters give you ample time to interrupt or react.

In the case of optimal latency, honestly, it's rare to see people failing to interrupt cause of latency, but I see a lot of people failing to interrupt just because it gimps their dps

This post has been edited by gaeria84: Jan 25 2011, 05:59 PM

200 - 350ms consider good latency actually

I can agree to a certain extend interupt is not an issue.

But still, latency somehow affect our dps.

So, what is the plan? OneMalaysia Guild?

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:01 PM

No, that's not the purpose of this thread lol.
Trying to hit home an idea which was taboo for many people.

Fail interrupt+PC lag = 90% wipe on 10man Nefarian in Cata (Blase Wave+late jump due to latency)

Last time 40man if 1 man AFK also it wont make a big difference. I admit i didnt raid much of the 40man content because i'm in a US server where the active raiders are asleep when i'm awake but i did raid for the 25man in Vanilla

I'm not saying latency is the main factor but it does play a part in how successful a raid can be. Certain classes need good timing which requires good latency to maximize DPS

This post has been edited by ChcGamer: Jan 25 2011, 06:12 PM

my above post have nothing to do with this thread. its just to reply to you. though technically, its related to latency somewhat.

stacking/fail to move away wont be affected by ping under 400-500. which again, i have pointed before, and also mentioned that it is possible even without tunneling/vpn services.
if they still fail, then it is their own failure, nothing to do with latency.

Please do not try to place blames on latency for one mistake. instead of placing blames and b**** and whine, why not try to work around said latency. who knows if you're actually able to be a world top raider? i know for sure blaming latency wont bring you anywhere.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 6:14 pmhere is the thing. you kept trying to blame on technicalities, where the purpose of this thread isnt even about that.

PC lag? what, you want to blame WoW or whatever/whoever else for your own problems of not able to purchase a PC that is able to play WoW smoothly? come on.

PS: unless you're on farming contents, it actually takes all 40 man to make things work. did i mention those near 1 hour fights? yea 1 man dps (or mana to heal, LOL HEALING ROTATIONS!) sure as hell didnt matter.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 25 2011, 06:14 PM

stacking/fail to move away wont be affected by ping under 400-500?

Serious? Not slightly delay?

I've never blames on latency on wipe, i am merely saying latency gives different between competitive raiding.

If skill is equal, then latency will be one of the differentiator.

The TS is talking about competitive raiding. Not about normal raiding. I knew it is possible to move away from fire if ping 400 - 500, but how optimise is the movement, are u taking extra damage and hence giving extra pressure to the healer, due to the split second delay?

So? How can latency not important in competitive raiding.

If u want to argue, pls argue within the context of this thread.



This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:27 PM

Come mon, be realistic, technicalities is one of the main reasons why Malaysian online Gaming suffer.

Period. If we assume, our line top notch, pc, superb, time, no problem, money, not an issue, can we be competitive?

Boleh!

No one is trying to blame on latency as culprit, ppl just implying that latency is one of the major issue / barrier to Malaysian competitive raiding.

This post has been edited by hidden830726: Jan 25 2011, 06:28 PM

^

this.

skill is a subjective variable. you can have the BEST SKILLED players of the WORLD place together. however if they have zero co-ordination and they cant work together at all, they can be as noob as a 3rd rate non-factor scrub guild trying to break low tier raiding content.

my point? there are many things that affects an outcome of a PVE content raid. and i for one, strongly disagrees that so long latency is under 400-500, you will not be affected by said latency. one can always try to move ahead. sure you may gimp probably a few % of your dps, however you not dying/giving pressure to healers was your concern right?

again, WoW was not designed to require superhuman reflexes. it is designed for people to work together in unison the correct way (aka learning your damn encounter, and beating it. and by learning i dont mean reading up wow wiki or guides as you are contending for WORLD RAIDER, aka being damn fast at content where guides arent even out yet)

again, latency is important. if you lag over 1k ms ping, you have no reason to be in the guild/raid. however, if you are serious about raiding, especially competing for server/world first, i believe it is safe to assume that one should at least put in dedication, such as getting a better connection (if screamyx doesnt work, try jaring, try unify for example, or even move house/place of residence), if pc lag, buy new pc. etc etc.

you may think its overboard, that is YOUR OPINION. the rest of those elitist sure as hell dont think so. and most of them are even SPONSORED for being at the top of the world.

---

Added on January 25, 2011, 6:32 pmPC:
can you buy a decent PC that can support WoW at full graphic settings and no lag?

yes

connection:
can a malaysian get under 200-300 ms (even lower than 400-500 whoo!) with or without tunneling/vpn?

yes


i know there are MANY MANY Malaysians can say yes to the above to. even in THIS VERY LOWYAT.NET WOW FORUM
if you cannot at least put in the effort/dedication to make the above "no's" into "yes's", then i believe you do not have a place within competitive raiding.

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Jan 25 2011, 06:32 PM

I agree with the rest. Just not this line.

See, im aware of competitive raiding scene, and i understand what u are suggesting.

Just, for u to imply that latency is not an issue, there is no sense anymore.

Still, ya, maybe we shouldnt even require to argue abt this, because most of the issue can be settled if they get sponsored.

Chill.