I find it rather appalling that you have to classify everything into both ends of the extreme without regard to the overall spectrum.

There has to be a distinction here. There isn't such thing as a nice guy or bad boy at all. These are pseudo-type guys that only exist in fiction. What a girl says when she means a nice guy is that he is a pathetic doormat. Yes, nice does not mean he gives to charity, takes care of orphans during his free time and treats her nice. All girls would KILL for a guy like that. When she means nice she means you are putting yourself below her and below your peers(in certain cases). Basically, you are nothing but a tool for someone else's pleasure or happiness.

Then comes the jerk who has little regard for the girl or treats the girl badly. This guy TOO is avoided by females.

So what does the female want? The short answer would be non of the extremes. See what you said in your post. The guy loves the girl and protects the girl. Yes, is that in any way contradictory to what spunkberry said? In her entire post did she in any way devaluate a guy who was protective and loving? NO.

Neither did she approve of a guy that treats the girl like a slave and sells her off. Where are you coming up with these ridiculous notions? In all the posts here I have yet to see ANYONE say that. The only person who seems to think so would be you.

Okay, you want to know the middle ground as you call it? Think of your favorite childhood hero. Bruce Lee? Wong Fei Hong? Arnold ? Slyvester Stallone? James Bond?

Did they get the girls? Yes.
Were they confident? Yes
Did they beat assholes who hurt them or their loved ones up? Yes
Did they gamble, smoke, drink? Yes. That doesn't matter.
Were they badass? Yes
But did they treat their girls badly? No
Were they begging for girls to accept them? No
Did they beat girls up? No
Did they let girls push them around and despite that still treat em like a queen? No. They put them in place orderly or called them out on their childish behavior in a stern tone.

I can go on and on but yes, basicaly you have to find the middle ground. The romantic, understanding, empathetic, sensitive side of the "nice guy" while pertaining to the exciting, outgoing, protective, confident and secure side of the "bad boy" WHILE throwing away the weepy, pathetic, 24/7 pleasing even though the girl treats him like shit side of the nice guy and the "hurting people, bullying, demeaning" side of the bad boy.

That's it.

Spunkberry: "Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".



Great article. For those unable to spare 5 mins of reading just do your usual TLDR comment as a reply.

I would like to expand on this. I know a lot of dating/love connoisseurs try to find the heart of the issue. This is one good example. But the values behind them are also pivotal.

For instance, we know there are girls that get attracted to bad boys. This is the archetype which I'm not going to argue the definition on. However, most would agree they exhibit courage, audacity, boldness and risk taking. Now we often hear guys wonder why girls like bad boys. Honestly, when I was younger I wondered as well. Why do they like drunkards, smokers, even some extreme examples where girls fall in LOVE with serial murderers (Ted Bundy was drowning in pussy).

The truth is-it's not a particular set of behaviors that girls like but the underlying ones which attract them. Confidence is one of them. My friend once said-badboys break the rules. True. Some to a higher degree than others. Now ask yourself, can a non-confident person break rules? No. Can a coward voice an opinion against the crowd? No. So this confidence quality is exhibited through their action. Unfortunately, some actions are NOT that great-street fights, abuse, etc-regardless women cannot differentiate the ACTION. They can only differentiate the VALUE.


Meaning, that if an action is carried out as a huge display of confidence-regardless of it was a good action (firefighting) or bad action (arson)-as long as it took balls to do-their panties get wet.

So by that basis-you can be a decent stand up person while being confident-if you can exhibit those qualities through other good actions. Entrepreneurs, for example also display confidence by breaking the the status quo and fighting incumbents.


My next point
As spunk said, nice guys fall into two categories. The"cowards" and the "creeps".

First I will differentiate a man from a boy. I don't wanna go badboy vs nice guy or alpha vs beta. It's a bit too fictional and guys fall into so many points of the spectrum. This article is not me recommending you to be as asshole. I was in that pit once, and sure I pulled some chicks, but you can be a confident standup guy with princely qualities while still getting the girl or playing the field whatever the goal may be. Do not degenerate. Have faith. Grow to be a man, not an asshole.

The boy (coward)
Example:
Sees a girl he likes IRL. Too afraid to talk to her.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Too afraid to approach because it might cause awkwardness later if she rejects.
Sees a girl on tinder. Doesn't want to swipe her. Gets swiped-just says hi or nothing at all.

The man
Example:
Sees a girl IRL. Finds out how to speak to her. Either try to relate through a setting (if bookstore ask about new reads) or just go direct. This does NOT guarantee him anything. That is not the point. The point is he approached.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Asks her out-no friends just them. Define it as a date. Fuck awkward. Deal with it later. Kiss close within first date (or more if it's mutual). No apologies. If she says it's too fast. Say-I think it was just right on time. If she doesn't kiss, you know you failed. Suck it up and move on. A man does not need to succeed. He just needs to pursue. He enjoys success but learns and moves on from failures.
Swipes girls he likes on tinder. Do not just say hi. Say anything but hi-it's a kiss of death. Unless you're a 10/10.

The boy (creep)
Example:
Sees a girl he likes IRL. In restaurant :Buys her an entire meal without introducing himself later or after. In bookstore: tells the register to put book on his tab. Creepy as hell. Can you imagine if you went somewhere and ppl started paying for shit without you knowing who it was.
Knows a girl within friend circle. Finds out her address. Shows up one evening with 10,000 roses. Or, during normal bbq gathering-suddenly confesses to her his love in front of everyone.
Sees a girl on tinder. Swipes. Says hi. Says hi 10 more times.

Now the creep and the man are quite similar-in that they both APPROACHED a girl.


So if you are a creep, I at least give you some credit in that you have balls. You now just have to recalibrate your approch. Drastically.

If you like a girl. Be bold, approach her, and make it clear what you want. This is not you making friends. You already have enough friends. This is a date. This is a move. This is me showing that I desire you.

BUT-add an additional line of thought. You are not the only girl.. The creep does what he does because he can't bear to let go of this girl. So he brings out all the big guns-500 dollar dinner dates, roses, songs, jazz, candles-the whole shebang.

A man-charms and romances-but in a more delicate way. I agree-what the defining line is quite blur. Maybe spunk can add some input into this.


This is mine: Any gifts on the first date is unnecessary. Don't do movies or michelin dining either. At the same time-don't bring her to the crappiest longkang place in town to show you don't give a fcuk.

Pizza and soda. Rustic italian. Jap. These are good. The rest is really you. I don't really like to use fancy contraptions on first date. Make it a challenge so that you are the best part of the night. Not the food, not the circus, not the band, not your perfume, not your car. You. A date must have three things-food, entertainment and affection. Get the food taken care of - nice quaint place not too over the top with quality food.

The entertainment and affection should fall wholly on you. Even if Louis CK, Ed Sheeran and Big Bang was performing-you should steal the show before the night is over. That is your challenge. Accept it. Start with entertainment then slowly roll into affection. - Judith Martin.

And finally: Take rejection. Yes, not every girl will fall for every guy. Whoever believes this shit is just trying to think that way to get more girls through some NLP practice to boost his inner mental game. But no guy can get every girl. None. Some like Hugh Jackman, some like Hanks, some like Depp-go figure. It's just like how I wont' fcuk any woman. Neither will I get into a relationship with any woman and neither should you. That is okay . Life is too short to sleep and date 3.5 billion females.

A creep will not take rejection lightly. He will constantly pine for affection and ask for second chances while begging and pleading his way through. A man accepts it. He moves on. That's it.

This post has been edited by Beachkid: May 28 2017, 09:14 AM