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 Motorola Milestone official thread V2, Flashing sbf & rooting guides @ 1st post

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oneeleven
post Dec 23 2010, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(kysham @ Dec 23 2010, 07:55 AM)
MOTOROLA...!!!!! I HATE YOU....!!!!!  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif

Motorola Delayed The Release of Froyo for Milestone - GSMarena.
*
Yeah, bummer but I'm still having a great time with apps available for 2.1 Upgrades might offer some convenience but not critical for use of phone. I prefer to wait until Moto is satisfied that what they give us officially is a fully debugged compatible version.

111
pcphobic
post Dec 24 2010, 02:43 AM

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I have tried 3 custom ROMS for Milestone and they are Cyanogenmod 6, Cronos and G.O.T

Both Cyanogenmod and Cronos Froyo are installed via the Open Recovery Menu from Androidaini
while G.O.T is installed via a software called RSDlite via your Windows PC.

From my experience, newbies would find it easier to install G.O.T

The 2 recommended G.O.T firmware to use are RTUK and RTEU.

I have tested the UK Froyo firmware (RTUK) for my Starhub Motorola Milestone and it is pretty good.
One bonus... it removed that ugly Starhub logo with the original "M" Motorola logo at the start up screen.

For more info on how to install G.O.T please go to http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=811221


The only bug about G.O.T is that Facebook don't sync with your phone contacts.

This post has been edited by pcphobic: Dec 24 2010, 02:45 AM
haroldz123
post Dec 24 2010, 11:15 AM

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migrating to iphone 5
opss...HTC / google dumbphone nx year
better support /upgrade
Charcoal
post Dec 24 2010, 03:46 PM

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I've tried Cyanogen 6.1.1 and I have to say I am very impressed. Not bothered to wait for Motorola anymore. Not only does Cyanogen give you 2.2 (well most of it), you get a ton of useful programs, fixes and enhancements as well plus an active dev community improving it. Even if Motorola releases 2.2, I'm sticking with Cyanogen now.

So far these are the improvements I've seen over stock 2.1
1) you get dalvik JIT
2) App2SD (most android market apps install on phone by default but you can move them to SD later)
3) 3G mobile hotspot (useless to me but maybe you guys use it)
4) Huge changes on Gallery - With 2.1 viewing pictures tend to be laggy but the gallery now is very very smooth and in beautiful 3d now.
5) Slightly better looking music player and I really like how when you have music on - the music controls are now available on the locked screen so you can skip, rewind or pause/play without needing to unlock. with 2.1, you had to struggle with unlocking the phone first.
6) Now, if you were on headphones, when you pull out the connectors, music also pauses. In my old 2.1 music would blast through the phone speakers instead and piss off my office mates.
7) Included "clock" app is great, doubles as a dock clock mode, and gives you access to alarm, gallery, music at the same time.
8) Flac support - great for playing flac music without re-encoding to mp3
9) Improved camera options
10) There's also a number of background improvements, like tweaking the governors etc but its mostly invisible so i think you guys wont really need to know

It was surprisingly easy to install cyanogen but keep in mind its still in beta so you might have some bugs here and there. So far I'm testing and I haven't found any major issues yet. Cyanogen comes with ADW launcher so you can adjust the themes but I installed Launcherpro over it cause I always found launcher pro to be smoother.

On top of Cyanogen, I also got root, and overclock to 800ghz during the install process from Andrioani OR.

If i have time later, I'll write up a guide on how to install Cyanogen from first step all the way to end.

This post has been edited by Charcoal: Dec 24 2010, 03:51 PM
under18
post Dec 24 2010, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(haroldz123 @ Dec 24 2010, 11:15 AM)
migrating to iphone 5
opss...HTC / google dumbphone nx year
better support /upgrade
*
harold..im thingking like u also. but i still love moto device.feel solid and strong.
maybe can try the coming Nexus S?seem good with AMOLED.but processor still old 1.no dual core.hehe
im waiting for DroidX, but no news..disapointing..

Charcoal.which update CM6 u used? i still use old 22.11.2010 as no issue like new update like camera, video recording and force close apps most the time..


P/S. anyone use to update from CM6 to Chronos? can teach me how to switch CM6 to Chronos the easy way..hehe
Charcoal
post Dec 24 2010, 04:16 PM

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I've just updated to the 22.12.10 build. Currently testing, no issues so far on camera and video works fine. I haven't had any force close apps yet so far - mostly i think those are due to buggy apps and not the OS.

Its also very advisable to make sure that you clear out all caches and do a factory reset first in Open recovery before installing a custom ROM. Then install all apps fresh again and you should be fine.
oneeleven
post Dec 24 2010, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(Charcoal @ Dec 24 2010, 03:46 PM)
I've tried Cyanogen 6.1.1 and I have to say I am very impressed. Not bothered to wait for Motorola anymore. Not only does Cyanogen give you 2.2 (well most of it), you get a ton of useful programs, fixes and enhancements as well plus an active dev community improving it. Even if Motorola releases 2.2, I'm sticking with Cyanogen now.
*
I'm really glad to know that our phone's system is so flexible and that many others are taking full advantage of it.

Just to reassure some present owners or potential buyers, even 2nd hand -- don't worry.

After reading about all the perks of 2.2 and the apps for pay, I'm not impressed -- none of it motivates me to face the hassle of rooting and reinstalling ROMs. I still read help messages out there complaining about bricked Milestones. What I have now with 2.1 is enough and perfectly usable so I can wait!

111
shiloong7081
post Dec 24 2010, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(Charcoal @ Dec 24 2010, 04:16 PM)
I've just updated to the 22.12.10 build. Currently testing, no issues so far on camera and video works fine. I haven't had any force close apps yet so far - mostly i think those are due to buggy apps and not the OS.

Its also very advisable to make sure that you clear out all caches and do a factory reset first in Open recovery before installing a custom ROM. Then install all apps fresh again and you should be fine.
*
i would love it if you can update us with a guide. the old guides are somewhat outdated, and files are missing from servers. thanks, looking forward to it
haroldz123
post Dec 24 2010, 11:26 PM

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i saw some one selling htc desire Z in ebay singapore set for less than rm1.5k

but im still looking for better qwerty slider
htc evo epic 4 G unfortunately have similar thumb print scanner design for arrow keys
xxboxx
post Dec 24 2010, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(kysham @ Dec 23 2010, 07:55 AM)
MOTOROLA...!!!!! I HATE YOU....!!!!!  cry.gif  cry.gif  cry.gif

Motorola Delayed The Release of Froyo for Milestone - GSMarena.
*
Damn.. that is a bad news indeed. I was hoping to use official 2.2. CM6 is nice but the kernel is quite buggy

QUOTE(pcphobic @ Dec 24 2010, 02:43 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
Of all 3, which one you prefer most?

QUOTE(Charcoal @ Dec 24 2010, 03:46 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
The latest build also have 2.3 keyboard, looks much nicer than 2.2 and below keyboard. rclxms.gif

But seems this kernel doesn't support mp4 for system player, and youtube video on website is laggy..

QUOTE(under18 @ Dec 24 2010, 04:06 PM)
harold..im thingking like u also. but i still love moto device.feel solid and strong.
maybe can try the coming Nexus S?seem good with AMOLED.but processor still old 1.no dual core.hehe
im waiting for DroidX, but no news..disapointing..

Charcoal.which update CM6 u used? i still use old 22.11.2010 as no issue like new update like camera, video recording and force close apps most the time..
P/S. anyone use to update from CM6 to Chronos? can teach me how to switch CM6 to Chronos the easy way..hehe
*
The latest build, 10.12.22 also feels very stable. Wifi with weak signal still can connect. Only sometime the wifi stuck at connecting, then have to delete 1 file from phone..

QUOTE(oneeleven @ Dec 24 2010, 08:05 PM)
I'm really glad to know that our phone's system is so flexible and that many others are taking full advantage of it.

Just to reassure some present owners or potential buyers, even 2nd hand -- don't worry.

After reading about all the perks of 2.2 and the apps for pay, I'm not impressed -- none of it motivates me to face the hassle of rooting and reinstalling ROMs. I still read help messages out there complaining about bricked Milestones. What I have now with 2.1 is enough and perfectly usable so I can wait!

111
*

how about built in apps2sd? Also can upload files from browser. Flash support?
nightzstar
post Dec 25 2010, 02:04 AM

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Very tiring editing my contact. Why when i click edit, there will be multiple google account with the same name and phone number? How can I delete the multiple account? Thanks in advance.
oneeleven
post Dec 25 2010, 04:30 AM

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QUOTE(nightzstar @ Dec 25 2010, 02:04 AM)
Very tiring editing my contact. Why when i click edit, there will be multiple google account with the same name and phone number? How can I delete the multiple account? Thanks in advance.
*
Try Contact Analyzer app. However, dunno how your Google affects it.

I had big problem, nobody offered any solutions, so bite the bullet, edited my Google contacts (yucks job) only then contacts OK again. BTW do backup but that may not solve all future problems.

111
sinach
post Dec 25 2010, 12:56 PM

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QUOTE(oneeleven @ Dec 24 2010, 08:05 PM)
I'm really glad to know that our phone's system is so flexible and that many others are taking full advantage of it.

Just to reassure some present owners or potential buyers, even 2nd hand -- don't worry.

After reading about all the perks of 2.2 and the apps for pay, I'm not impressed -- none of it motivates me to face the hassle of rooting and reinstalling ROMs. I still read help messages out there complaining about bricked Milestones. What I have now with 2.1 is enough and perfectly usable so I can wait!

111
*
agreed. i think i still can live with my rooted MS and 2.1 version. my fren got 2.2.1 on the N1 doesnt impress me so much except for app2sd and better batt consumption. other than that, not so much. thinking of reinstall ROMs etc but too much hassle for a noob like me. provided there's really clear step by step. hmm.gif
bond0613
post Dec 26 2010, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(Charcoal @ Dec 24 2010, 03:46 PM)
I've tried Cyanogen 6.1.1 and I have to say I am very impressed. Not bothered to wait for Motorola anymore. Not only does Cyanogen give you 2.2 (well most of it), you get a ton of useful programs, fixes and enhancements as well plus an active dev community improving it. Even if Motorola releases 2.2, I'm sticking with Cyanogen now.

So far these are the improvements I've seen over stock 2.1
1) you get dalvik JIT
2) App2SD (most android market apps install on phone by default but you can move them to SD later)
3) 3G mobile hotspot (useless to me but maybe you guys use it)
4) Huge changes on Gallery - With 2.1 viewing pictures tend to be laggy but the gallery now is very very smooth and in beautiful 3d now.
5) Slightly better looking music player and I really like how when you have music on - the music controls are now available on the locked screen so you can skip, rewind or pause/play without needing to unlock. with 2.1, you had to struggle with unlocking the phone first.
6) Now, if you were on headphones, when you pull out the connectors, music also pauses. In my old 2.1 music would blast through the phone speakers instead and piss off my office mates.
7) Included "clock" app is great, doubles as a dock clock mode, and gives you access to alarm, gallery, music at the same time.
8) Flac support - great for playing flac music without re-encoding to mp3
9) Improved camera options
10) There's also a number of background improvements, like tweaking the governors etc but its mostly invisible so i think you guys wont really need to know

It was surprisingly easy to install cyanogen but keep in mind its still in beta so you might have some bugs here and there. So far I'm testing and I haven't found any major issues yet. Cyanogen comes with ADW launcher so you can adjust the themes but I installed Launcherpro over it cause I always found launcher pro to be smoother.

On top of Cyanogen, I also got root, and overclock to 800ghz during the install process from Andrioani OR.

If i have time later, I'll write up a guide on how to install Cyanogen from first step all the way to end.
*
Hi, I try to use Cyanogen 6.1.1, but i could get my 3G working. how do i solve the problem?

Thanks


Added on December 26, 2010, 11:36 pmVery strange, in GOT , i can use 3G. after installing CM6, i install telus RIL CM6 unsign, it is still not working. anyone can help?

This post has been edited by bond0613: Dec 26 2010, 11:36 PM
haroldz123
post Dec 26 2010, 11:57 PM

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Anyone know how to improve milestone camera?

Crap
Charcoal
post Dec 27 2010, 04:16 AM

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Ok folks here is the step by step of how to install Cyanogen. There's two portions - first portion is getting Root, a nandroid backup and Open recovery installed. 2nd portion is actual Cyanogen installation. Remember that there is always a risk with flashing ROMs. You will be proceeding at your own risk and I am not responsible for any issues you may encounter from a custom ROM.

Ok here we go:

Download all files first so that you can perform all the steps in one go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Files for root and open recovery installation
1. Download Motorola USB drivers (http://www.motorola.com/Support/US-EN/Support-Homepage/Software_and_Drivers/USB-and-PC-Charging-Drivers)
2. Download RSD Lite 4.6 - I downloaded from (http://and-developers.com/tools:rsd_lite)
3. Download the vulnerable recovery - "vulnerable_recovery_only_RAMDLD90_78" and save to your computer somewhere (http://android.doshaska.net/rootable)
4. Download latest Andrioani OR 3.3.zip (http://code.google.com/p/androidiani-openrecovery/downloads/list) - why Andrioani 3.3? Because its gota lot of handy scripts and radio band scripts built in.

Files for Cyanogen
5. Download latest Cyanogen (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=784750) the link is usually quite at the bottom. Just search under "download links". Its a zip file.
6. Download Google Apps (http://android.d3xt3r01.tk/cyanogen/gapps/gapps-hdpi-20101114-signed.zip) - to install marketplace, etc. its a zip file.

Installation of Open Recovery + Root + backup
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Install Motorola USB drivers on your PC - do this first, I skipped this at first and had some problems connecting on RSD lite
2. Install RSD Lite 4.6 on your PC
3. Connect your phone to PC using the USB cable, and set to memory card access. Unzip Andrioani 3.3.zip in your phone SD card, you should get 1 folder (OpenRecovery) and 1 file (update.zip).
4. Copy the Cyanogen zip file and the Google Apps zip file into the "your SD card\OpenRecovery\updates" folder. This is for later installation.
5. Now turn off your phone
6. Run RSD lite on your PC
7. Press the Keypad Up + Power button for a few seconds (if this doesnt work, press the keypad X + Power Button) to boot into bootloader mode. If successful, you will see the Bootloader version on top and "battery ok..." msg at middle of screen. X button = square gold button.
8. Now back to your pc and from RSD lite, you should now see your phone connected. In RSD lite, select the vulnerable recovery file and then press start. You will see RSD lite status showing flashing. During this time your phone may reboot, just let it continue and you will see the progress % increase slowly.
9. Once you see the % hit 100%, the status will tell you to manually boot your phone. Just turn off now, and then do step 6-7 again to go into bootloader mode. Once there, RSD lite status should now show "PASS" - that means you flashed correctly. If you get an error msg at status, close RSD lite, and then start from step 4 again.
10. Ok now turn off your phone again. Now press camera button and then press the power button. Hold then both until you see the recovery screen (takes about 6-7 seconds). It will be small phone symbol with ! logo on top.
11. Once in recovery screen, press both the volume Up button + Camera button together until you see a menu come up. Keep pressing a few times until as it takes a few tries sometimes.
12. The menu will list 4 options, use your phone keypad to go to "apply sdcard:update.zip" and press the X key to select it to install.
13. A screen should appear to show you have now loaded Open Recovery (thats the Andrioani OR).
14. Now your first step is to go and do a backup first. Use your keypad to go down and select "Nandroid". The Menu will now change to "go back, backup, Restore, Delete". Select "Backup" and then select "backup all". This will backup your current phone condition in case you ever want to flash back to 2.1.
15. Once backup is done, go back to main screen and then go to "Root Phone". Select this to root your phone.
Congrats you have now rooted and backup your phone. You can go ahead and install Cyanogen now.

Installing Cyanogen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I always recommend a full reset and wipe first before installing Cyanogen. From the recovery main menu, scroll all the way to bottom and you should see "wipe dalvik cache", "wipe data/fac reset" and "wipe cache partition". Go ahead and run all 3 wipes.
2. Ok now from the Recovery main menu, you should see the an "apply update" option. Select this and it should show the name of the cyanogen zip and google apps zip file.
3. Select the cyanogen zip and apply it. (just hit Yes when it asks to confirm). Let it install until complete.
3. Select the google apps zip and apply it. (just hit Yes when it asks to confirm). Let it install until complete.
4. Reboot your phone.
5. Congrats you should now see the new boot screen for Cyanogen.

For bond0613: Changing the baseband
---------------------------------------------------------------------
My phone was able to run 3g fine without installing any additional baseband files on Cyanogen. It might be a problem with the Telus file you used, Telus is the Canadian baseband so it may be different from Malaysia's baseband usage.
If you have a problem with 3g, repeat all steps to get back into recovery main menu. Andrioani comes with multiple basebands, so you can just select "change baseband" and try installing for a new region (singapore should work).

This post has been edited by Charcoal: Dec 27 2010, 02:54 PM
bond0613
post Dec 27 2010, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(Charcoal @ Dec 27 2010, 04:16 AM)
Ok folks here is the step by step of how to install Cyanogen. There's two portions - first portion is getting Root, a nandroid backup and Open recovery installed. 2nd portion is actual Cyanogen installation. Remember that there is always a risk with flashing ROMs. You will be proceeding at your own risk and I am not responsible for any issues you may encounter from a custom ROM.

Ok here we go:

Download all files first so that you can perform all the steps in one go.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Files for root and open recovery installation
1. Download Motorola USB drivers (http://www.motorola.com/Support/US-EN/Support-Homepage/Software_and_Drivers/USB-and-PC-Charging-Drivers)
2. Download RSD Lite 4.6 - I downloaded from (http://and-developers.com/tools:rsd_lite)
3. Download the vulnerable recovery - "vulnerable_recovery_only_RAMDLD90_78" and save to your computer somewhere (http://android.doshaska.net/rootable)
4. Download latest Andrioani OR 3.3.zip (http://code.google.com/p/androidiani-openrecovery/downloads/list) - why Andrioani 3.3? Because its gota lot of handy scripts and radio band scripts built in.

Files for Cyanogen
5. Download latest Cyanogen (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=784750) the link is usually quite at the bottom. Just search under "download links". Its a zip file.
6. Download Google Apps (http://android.d3xt3r01.tk/cyanogen/gapps/gapps-hdpi-20101114-signed.zip) - to install marketplace, etc. its a zip file. 

Installation of Open Recovery + Root + backup
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Install Motorola USB drivers on your PC - do this first, I skipped this at first and had some problems connecting on RSD lite
2. Install RSD Lite 4.6 on your PC
3. Connect your phone to PC using the USB cable, and set to memory card access. Unzip Andrioani 3.3.zip in your phone SD card, you should get 1 folder (OpenRecovery) and 1 file (update.zip).
4. Copy the Cyanogen zip file and the Google Apps zip file into the "your SD card\OpenRecovery\updates" folder. This is for later installation.
5. Now turn off your phone
6. Run RSD lite on your PC
7. Press the Keypad Up + Power button for a few seconds (if this doesnt work, press the keypad X + Power Button) to boot into bootloader mode. If successful, you will see the Bootloader version on top and "battery ok..." msg at middle of screen. X button = square gold button.
8. Now back to your pc and from RSD lite, you should now see your phone connected. In RSD lite, select the vulnerable recovery file and then press start. You will see RSD lite status showing flashing. During this time your phone may reboot, just let it continue and you will see the progress % increase slowly. 
9. Once you see the % hit 100%, the status will tell you to manually boot your phone. Just turn off now, and then do step 6 again to go into bootloader mode. Once there, RSD lite status should now show "PASS" - that means you flashed correctly. If you get an error msg at status, close RSD lite, and then start from step 4 again.
10. Ok now turn off your phone again. Now press camera button and then press the power button. Hold then both until you see the recovery screen (takes about 6-7 seconds). It will be small phone symbol with ! logo on top.
11. Once in recovery screen, press both the volume Up button + Camera button together until you see a menu come up. Keep pressing a few times until as it takes a few tries sometimes.
12. The menu will list 4 options, use your phone keypad to go to "apply sdcard:update.zip" and press the X key to select it to install.
13. A screen should appear to show you have now loaded Open Recovery (thats the Andrioani OR).
14. Now your first step is to go and do a backup first. Use your keypad to go down and select "Nandroid". The Menu will now change to "go back, backup, Restore, Delete". Select "Backup" and then select "backup all". This will backup your current phone condition in case you ever want to flash back to 2.1.
15. Once backup is done, go back to main screen and then go to "Root Phone". Select this to root your phone.
Congrats you have now rooted and backup your phone. You can go ahead and install Cyanogen now.

Installing Cyanogen
---------------------------------------------------------------------
1. I always recommend a full reset and wipe first before installing Cyanogen. From the recovery main menu, scroll all the way to bottom and you should see "wipe dalvik cache", "wipe data/fac reset" and "wipe cache partition". Go ahead and run all 3 wipes.
2. Ok now from the Recovery main menu, you should see the an "apply update" option. Select this and it should show the name of the cyanogen zip and google apps zip file.
3. Select the cyanogen zip and apply it. (just hit Yes when it asks to confirm). Let it install until complete.
3. Select the google apps zip and apply it. (just hit Yes when it asks to confirm). Let it install until complete.
4. Reboot your phone.
5. Congrats you should now see the new boot screen for Cyanogen.

For bond0613: Changing the baseband
---------------------------------------------------------------------
My phone was able to run 3g fine without installing any additional baseband files on Cyanogen. It might be a problem with the Telus file you used, Telus is the Canadian baseband so it may be different from Malaysia's baseband usage.
If you have a problem with 3g, repeat all steps to get back into recovery main menu. Andrioani comes with multiple basebands, so you can just select "change baseband" and try installing for a new region (singapore should work).
*
Hi, thank you so much. Another question, do I need to flash the GOT first? or i can straight away install Cyanogen?

Thanks,
Bong
Charcoal
post Dec 27 2010, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(bond0613 @ Dec 27 2010, 07:50 AM)
Hi, thank you so much. Another question, do I need to flash the GOT first? or i can straight away install Cyanogen?

Thanks,
Bong
*
Dont need to flash GOT. The latest Cyanogen already has the latest GOT 2.2.1 built in. Basically Cyanogen = GOT 2.2.1 + Cyanogen Mods and bug fixes
foxstertail
post Dec 27 2010, 03:30 PM

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Hi guys. My hands now are very itchy to try Android and i felt that Milestone is my preferred Android phone. thumbup.gif
But I have a few concerns about it.
Read a few user reviews from the internet, and I found that the phone will get hot when connected to the internet after a while.
So, is that true?

this is a very big concern for me cause i will use this phone as a replacement for my casual laptop.
So, being online most of the time is probably how i will use this phone.

Enlighten me. Thanks. smile.gif
Charcoal
post Dec 27 2010, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(foxstertail @ Dec 27 2010, 03:30 PM)
Hi guys. My hands now are very itchy to try Android and i felt that Milestone is my preferred Android phone. thumbup.gif
But I have a few concerns about it.
Read a few user reviews from the internet, and I found that the phone will get hot when connected to the internet after a while.
So, is that true?

this is a very big concern for me cause i will use this phone as a replacement for my casual laptop.
So, being online most of the time is probably how i will use this phone.

Enlighten me. Thanks. smile.gif
*
I've used the milestone to surf and watch youtube online for hours and usually warm is how i would describe it. Personally it does not bother me since its not hot enough to be uncomfortable and I think any phone will get warm if you are using it to watch videos online etc. Overall its a great phone with solid hardware and keyboard certainly helps in web browsing (i find it easier to use the pad than touchscreen sometimes).

As a laptop replacement however, you probably won't want to use it as replacement for laptop long term since screen is a lot smaller. Phones these size are more meant for casual surfing and watching videos on the fly (like when you're lazy and lying around, starbucks, on bus, in airport etc) without needing to boot up a laptop and ultimately its a small phone. I guess the benefit is that you can carry around anywhere and its always going to be with you unlike a laptop.

Another thing to consider about milestone also is that the stock firmware from Motorola is still stuck on Eclair 2.1 until Q1 of next year (who knows how much longer) so that means no flash support. If you want to view flash, you need to install a custom ROM to get 2.2 froyo. I love this phone but if you want Froyo and flash at stock firmware, it might be better for you to look to other phones that are Froyo (maybe even gingerbread) ready.

This post has been edited by Charcoal: Dec 27 2010, 04:49 PM

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