how come i asked you 2 questions (technically 3 i guess) and without answering, you asked me 3 questions in return?

Dear Optiplex, am very sure that no additive being added during the 50k OCI. Again when we talking about mineral and Cap Ayam, we also need to understand type of mineral base oil group..there are group I, II, II+ and III (UCBO = Group III also can be clasified as synthetic, today). Lets take Caltex Delo range as example, Delo 400 and Delo Silver SAE 15W/40 http://www.sjk.com.my/specifications/Delo400m.pdf & http://www.sjk.com.my/specifications/Delo_Silver_MG.pdf.

Delo 400 with famous Isosyn base oil http://www.parmanenergy.com/what-is-isosyn.html and Delo Silver with group I base oil.

This is not cap ayam, which model will protect your engine better?

This post has been edited by pumpman: Aug 14 2012, 06:49 PM

just now use mobil 1 fully, b4 this use toyota fully for vios..
not sure wht diff it is, only price maybe ? toyota fully rm150, mobil 1 fully rm160, castrol edge rm185, castrol edge sport rm220..

Brand: Total 9000 SM
Oil Type : 5-40 Fully Synthetic
Price : RM205
My Thoughts : Engine run smoothly until 10k-12k
Car: Peugeot 307

Does anyone use this oil, Fast Power Oil?

Fast Power Oil

See the demo to believe. Bumiputra maker. FC is better. Got power and smooth engine.

I even know who pack and manufacture for them.. at least 3 other company using this oil but different branding.

In that case, there must be either:
1. Larger oil sump. I notice European car tends to have bigger oil capacity and that may be a reason they have longer OCI.
2. A By-Pass filter to filter off the suspended combustion by product.

Yes, Delo 400 is excellent oil but it is still classified as Mineral. It is dirt cheap compared to Synthetic at RM11 per liter and the reason why I see no need for Synthetic.

so does larger oil sump, by-pass filter help restore additives to achieve longer OCI? are the manufacturer crazy for recommending long OCI's?

guys...sorry for off topic...may i know there's any ss 5w-30 engine oil in the market now?

Larger oil sump, a better base oil, balance additive package and good filtration do play their part for engine component protection and longer OCI.

Here is a simple mathematic question. Assuming it is the same engine but with different oil sump.

If the oil sump can hold 5 liter engine oil and the OCI is 5000-km

If you increase the size of the oil sump to 10 liter, is the OCI still 5000-km?

I use this 1



My dad said they're the best! My grand dad, my dad and myself is using them

what you said:


what i asked:


so again, does the additives regenerate itself by having bigger oil sump?
in what equation of your math shows that additive has a loop iteration on regeneration?

what your math example showed is how larger oil sumps can sustain more combustion by product/carbon etc
it never have any indication on how it can achieve better longevity on your precious additives.

so care to change your statement a little that additives are NOT THE ONLY THING that determines an OCI?

bro...where can i buy it?i looking for this green oil long time d~~~

Yes.

To someone else who don't understand what pumpman is saying.

Assuming 1 liter of engine oil contains 100gm of Anti-Rust agent.

Therefore, a 10 liter engine oil will contain 10 times more of Anti-Rust agent. Therefore you can have longer OCI if you have 10 liter engine oil instead of 1 liter engine oil as far as Anti-Rust is concerned.

Once the Anti-Rust agent has been depleted, you have to change engine oil. As for the used engine oil, you can filter off all the impurities and contaminant and you still ended up with useable Base Oil. This proves that Base Oil, regardless of Synthetic or Mineral, can last far longer than additives and in practical situation, wasn't much of a factor in determining OCI.

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Added on August 16, 2012, 6:43 am

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Added on August 16, 2012, 6:44 amAssuming on Engine Oil
1. Base Oil last 100,000-km
2. Additives last 10,000-km.

What is the OCI?

But you are technically correct if assuming the engine oil filter only last 3000-km. then the OCI is 3000-km. Or you just change the oil filter at 3000-km.

Either way, Base Oil almost always last longer than anything else in considering OCI. Somethng else always give up earlier and hence need changing.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Aug 16 2012, 06:54 AM

yeah plentiful of them i believe. else, you can still go for 10w-30. in fact, the rating before w can be ignored. we dont have winter seasons.

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Added on August 16, 2012, 12:58 pmproblem to that "assumption":
having more additives when your base oil amount and oil sump is significantly larger does not directly relate to longer lasting additives, it just doesn't work that way.

take water, and milo powder as examples:
you put 500ml of water (base oil), with 50 gram milo power (additives), that's 1 glass (take a proton oil sump)
this time you need to serve for a a few friends. so you have a larger container, like a water bottle or something, at 1 liters. then obviously you'll use 1l water, then 100gram milo power, correct? everything doubled in relative.

now does the milo taste changes? no, it does not.
does this changes the period where the milo drink goes stale/bad? No. The glass of milo will go bad just about the same time the 1l bottle milo would.

in relative to engine additives, having more additives while at the same time the volume of base oil increases, does NOT result in longer OCI.

conclusions:
- additives are not the only thing that determines an OCI.
- not all additives are the same be it the types/functions of additives, and the volume of it. (hence why "boutique" brand are so much more expensive than mainstream engine oil)


in other words, what pumpman said earlier sums up the requirement for longer OCI/engine protection:

none of it is more important than the other.

you cannot just ignore one aspect in favor of the other.

hell, if you're following manufacturer's recommendations, it isnt even about additives package anymore (aside from the basic API ratings etc). it is merely the engine specifications (such as the oil sump), which entirely contradicts what you said.

mainstream brands such as shell definitely have the latest API ratings, however their engine oil can barely run smooth around the 3k/4k km mark. while expensive non mainstream engine oils can EASILY run way after the 6k km mark (longest ive dragged my OCI was nearly 7k km using those oils. barely any performance degradation)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 16 2012, 12:58 PM

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Aug 16 2012, 01:23 PM

which further proves my point, your examples have nothing to do with additives then. it is merely a case of engine/oil sump specifications, which leans towards OCI based on manufacturer's recommendations, not additives.




it definitely doesn't work like that.
the effects of viscosity stabilizers, anti rust, would have less effect with less amount in contrast to the amount of engine oil.
chances are, they will also wear off faster if for example, there is little to no viscosity stabilizers, and your engine oil (and/or its additives) reaches flash point faster, and evaporates.

using back my example, it would be akin to your 500ml water, however you have 5gram of milo powder. your "milo drink" would taste very bland. not to mention, *in a way* the water would probably get stale/contaminate quicker with the lack of sugar (sugar is a form of basic preservative which coincidentally matches for my examples)




i stressed and stresses again, they all go hand in hand. you even acknowledged that oil filter would be the determining factor, which again, proves that it isn't all about additives.




engine oil like shell/petronas are definitely not cap ayam. however they easily craps out at 3-4k km. what gives?
they suck at additives? or their base oil is bad?
the semi synthetic can perform until 4-5k km as i did mentioned i used to OCI semi syns at 7.5k km, so is it the better base oil? or their semi syn packs better additives?




the thing is that, most mineral and semi (or full) synthetic when compared, the latter usually performs better than mineral based engine oil. it could be due to better additives, better base oil, or generally both. that is what most people (like me), if not all has been trying to point out.

you can't just go around claiming semi (or full) synthetic is pointless when you yourself acknowledges that there are good mineral based engine oil that would be better than cap ayam semi synthetic. if that is the case, wouldn't there be better semi synthetic engine oils that would easily trump even good mineral based oil?

if semi synthetic isn't good, why are they made in the first place? you acknowledged that higher performance car warrants its usage. however if you're constantly pushing your car out of its general operational limits (eg: red lining it, always driving long distance like few hours of non stop driving), wouldn't that already warrant a better engine oil usage?

at the end of the day it still concludes to:
- additives is not the only determining factor of OCI
- if you're merely doing point a to point b driving, you may not need good engine oil
- how one spends their money on engine oil, is their problem
- buying better performance engine oil and buying a better performance car are 2 very VERY different things especially in malaysia where they impose very heavy tax to foreign cars to protect our local car industry

Suspension agent used to suspend soot particle is one of the additives.

as salam,


guys guys....come on....you forgot what i mention before....


it is depend from which company are the additive come from....different additive manufacturer will give you different formula base on what their experience and reputation...

i know 1 very good company: LUBRIZOL....

sarjantulang