[quote=tineagle,May 12 2010, 08:06 PM]
You train the bodypart HARDER, not more often. You may be growing but don't you think you would be growing a lot more if you did the former?

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Yes you train it harder, but there's only a certain degree of how HARD you can train.
Of course training it more than once a week with high intensity and volume wont work with natural trainees.

Lagging body parts require more stimulation than brutal pounding, and adding in an additional day later the week(2-3days apart from first day of training that body part) with moderate weights and high reps seems to be the best way to stimulate that growth.

[/quote]

I used to read Layne Norton's (natural bb) threads. That was years ago. Now I exclusively read Q & A threads by IFBB Pros and ever since then my gains exploded. Strength wise, size wise. Training a bodypart with high intensity and volume won't work with juiced trainees either. Again, bb = recovery = bb.

You slam it hard with drop sets/neg sets/pause reps, etc, etc. Things which you wouldn't do with bodyparts already on par. Then you let it rest. What's your normal chest day rep/sets like? If you slam a bodypart with high reps and heavy weight, you wouldn't even want to train it twice a week even with lower intensity. There are many factors in this.

i assume after hammering one body part for the day and managing to do it again the next would mean one is not working hard enough?

i read it some where.... here
http://books.google.com.my/books?id=ibcR5_...epage&q&f=false

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Added on May 13, 2010, 6:50 pmhere another one....
http://www.steroid.com/

back to the my question....these those pills work....

This post has been edited by super messi: May 13 2010, 06:50 PM

Heh... short cut is to blow a horsey?

Tineagle has a point. I'm not disagreeing with him, his knowledge is pretty vast and i think he's pretty accomplished in his training from his posts but I all I'm saying is, (with due respect to tineagle)if a person can train a bodypart again with moderate weights, he's not obliterating it hard enough.
There are 2 points to this conflict. One is, instead of doing 16-20 sets for a bodypart a week, why not divide it into 8-10 sets twice a week. But Bob Chick even as a non natty states that bb=recovery. In this case for frequency, more isn't necessarily better.

This post has been edited by darklight79: May 13 2010, 06:56 PM

You have a point there darklight. I normally do a 4 day split Mon-Thurs. Hit chest hard on Monday 5-6 exercises(finish with a burn set), push/pull variations, weight according to how much I can squeeze 8-12reps on that day.

The thing is by Thursday I'm ready to go at it again with 1-2 exercises, moderate weights high reps. It'll still burn a little from Mondays training, thats why I never push high intensity on the second time around.

I'll try changing my routine around next week on; hitting chest with forced negs, drops, partials..etc. Normally I do include these beyond failure techniques on the last exercises for each body part. Will keep it for chest alone, and that way like you said will work the chest harder than other muscle groups.

will keep ya'll posted, thx for the insight.

Wait bro. You mean, you're on a push pull split? As in you do chest, tri shoulder together? I'm confused sorry. I think i'm still sleepy.

Hey bro,
Every morning I take a cup of Milo
Maybe during the recess time in school I eat some of the "nasi lemak" or noodles soup around 10 in the morning.
And then after the school I usually eats economy rice on 1:30o'clock
And then during the Dinner I ate at 6o'clock

But I'm quite a little bit lazy to exercise.. But I do it once a week.. But sometimes I still get to be more heavier than before.. Thought I eat less..

Is this what they call "eat less, gain a lot type"? add on It's quite hard for me to reduce my weight... Except that I never eats my dinner for 1week then I'll get to reduce my weight.. Will that be proper?

Urm.. I'm actually with 175height and 205pounds

This post has been edited by Cloud2322: May 13 2010, 09:54 PM

Ok, first off, no offense. My girlfriend eats more than you.

Second, your diet is bad. Milo ain't enough. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. You skip that, your metabolism slows down throughout the day, you get fatter actually.

Third, if you're lazy to exercise, why're you posting here then? Are you looking for motivation or program design or.... what? I'm not insulting you but neither am i clear what you're asking for.

This post has been edited by darklight79: May 13 2010, 09:58 PM

Nah.. Just wondering how to get a proper exercise.. I wonder will I get the same effect if I play basketball/football instead of jogging?

Sorry, Actually I take a cup of Milo add on with 2half boiled eggs add on with a few pieces of eggs.

lol no, by push pull exercises i meant incline bench presses > flat flyes > flat bench press > cables > dumbell press > pullover.. etc

i keep chest day for chest alone. other days are back/tri, shoulder/bi,legs/forearms

This post has been edited by tineagle: May 13 2010, 10:02 PM

You're pre exhausting in a way. I dunno, i mean i prefer to do all pressing movements first then iso's.
Here's how i do mine:-
4 sets incline db
4 sets flat db/machine flat
4 sets decline bb/machine flat
4 sets incline or flat flyes

Might add pullovers or cable crossovers if i have the mood but i'm f***ed after everything. I give it my all yet i don't go till failure. Sounds contradictory but.... oh well.

your problem is that your Metabolism rate is low. By not doing any physical activity + having a low metabolic rate, you are not burning the calories you put in. Thats why even when your eat less your find your weight still increases.

And no, dont skip dinner for 1 week! You should not be skipping any meals at all!!

The only way you're going to loose weight is by getting that Metabolic Rate of yours up to begin with. Do this by exercising 2-3 times a week atleast(if u are too lazy to run or lift weights, go play sports), and learn to eat small and frequent meals throughout your day. We're talking about 5-6 meals a day, but in your case since you want to loose weight, this should be strictly controlled. NO NASI LEMAK please.

Eat oats, fruits n vegies, salads and clean sources of proteins like whole eggs, steamed chicken/fish..and such.

Since you are a student, try something like this:
Meal plan:
1) eggs, oats, milk - 7am
2) fruits/vege/nuts/raisins - 10am
3) mee, meat - 1pm
4) fruits/vege/nuts/raisins - 4pm
5) pasta/mee/bread, meat - 7.30pm
6) oats, milk - 10pm

Yes, cut your rice intake. It will be hard at first; you can start of by reducing our serving to half of what you normally take.

Pair this meal plan with 2-3days(more if you can) of physical activity, and watch ur weight drop. Gluck.

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Added on May 13, 2010, 10:27 pmI've found that when I do all my presses first, by the time I get to iso's I'm already exhausted and cant lift as much.
Thats why I mix em up, doing iso's in between doesn't have as much effect on my strength come next pressing set as it would if I did all presses in a row first. I can move more volume(in total weight/reps by the end of my workout) this way.

I guess how we line them up doesn't really matter, as long as we take the muscles to failure(and beyond) and get them pumped by the end of our routine. After all that is the case behind hypertrophy no?

Its always good to switch things around too, so I guess i'll be doing this for a change.

This post has been edited by tineagle: May 13 2010, 10:28 PM

Don't go to failure! THAT's why you have no more power in isolation workouts which make those sets sub optimal iron brother. Learn to stop each set 1-2 reps SHORT of failure. You should be experienced enough with your body to know when is the time to stop the set.

oh, but I love taking it to failure.. its become more of a habit really haha. If I can squeze 13 reps of the 12 i planned for that weight, I make damm sure I DO IT.

time to slow down, thx for the pointers once again.

Think about it this way, you need to save juice for the next set. ATP doesn't replenish that fast. Why waste it all? Then might as well do HIT instead of HVT no? =P And ask you this, how many HIT style sets can you do? I can't do many, can you? Think about it.

+1
yo tineagle main till failure can feel pump or not eh?
i always fail to feel the pump if play til failure...the only thing i feel if play till failure is pain...
but after being enlightened by darklite, using high volume, u will notice the soreness and the pump and the tear will prevent you from working the same body part the next day or two

and quite rightly, after the routine darklite thought me, i no longer believe in the chest + triceps / biceps split cuz ur arms usually are fried with volume based training...
but thats me though
orang lain maybe lain...

Definitely feel it!

I train for the pump and have learnt to leave my man ego out the door the moment i step into the gym. No more crappy form in attempts to please the audience(lets admit it, we've all been there). If anything, let them be awed an my vascular road maps! lol.

It's kinda macho I admit, holding 2 large dumbbells in each hand. It's like.... flashing my giant nuts in public. But let's put it this way, that's fine but going to failure can be counter productive. Volume is the key word here in hypertrophy. And no fuel = no capacity to complete total number of sets required to grow. Heh.

Thank you for the opinion I'll try to stick with the Meal Plan.. By the way, I actually started to exercise like 2~3times a week recently.. Hope It helps.. Just problem with my meals intake I guess.. Thanks again.

Your welcome.

Remember, exercise if only 40% of the fitness equation. 60% is nutrition.

Cheers-