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 REIT V2, Real Estate Investment Trust

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monkeyking
post Sep 7 2010, 01:53 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 7 2010, 02:26 AM)
Maybank actually only raise 3 cents up from 1.16 to 1.19. However, of the help from cmmt and sunreit's great marketting, reit gains a lot more attentions. Just wondering what could be a stable price for Arreit for now.  hmm.gif
*
rclxms.gif Well said too brother yok70, with CMMT & SUNREIT great marketing plans, more & more Malaysians are taking a second look at Malaysia reits.....yes, they are paying great attention to it......maybe in time to come, REITS will be their first share buying option besides the blue chips. rclxm9.gif


wub.gif Cheers brother yok70...peace be with you too. icon_rolleyes.gif

sopol
post Sep 7 2010, 06:02 AM

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I am a supporter of arreit since its day one listing. The price will up and up. Will stop when reach full valuation aka NTA or at a level 8 - 9 % return..beyong that very hard to hold longer..
whizzer
post Sep 7 2010, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(sopol @ Sep 7 2010, 06:02 AM)
I am a supporter of arreit since its day one listing. The price will up and up. Will stop when reach full valuation aka NTA or at a level 8 - 9 % return..beyong that very hard to hold longer..
*
Today close at 0.91. More upside ?
Jordy
post Sep 7 2010, 07:18 PM

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AXREIT up another 2 cents to 2.17. I wonder if this interest could be caused by the latest distribution hmm.gif
yok70
post Sep 7 2010, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 7 2010, 07:18 PM)
AXREIT up another 2 cents to 2.17. I wonder if this interest could be caused by the latest distribution hmm.gif
*
fyi, I spotted a 1 batang push at the end of session on yesterday and today around 4:45pm. So, it's kind of a "fake" one, and people blind blind buying the upward price. doh.gif

Jordy
post Sep 7 2010, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 7 2010, 11:39 PM)
fyi, I spotted a 1 batang push at the end of session on yesterday and today around 4:45pm. So, it's kind of a "fake" one, and people blind blind buying the upward price.  doh.gif
*
Well, we won't know who are the ones doing the dirty work, but all is good. If it keeps going up beyond 2.20, I will start selling.
yok70
post Sep 8 2010, 01:43 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 7 2010, 11:57 PM)
Well, we won't know who are the ones doing the dirty work, but all is good. If it keeps going up beyond 2.20, I will start selling.
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But i wanna buy below 2.08 vmad.gif

monkeyking
post Sep 8 2010, 02:40 AM

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icon_rolleyes.gif Just read one of the readers comment in a blog.....


whistling.gif I quote....

QUOTE
Also, one thing I hate about AXIS is that when the company raise money to acquire new properties, they do not offer the new shares to the existing share holders. I never was offered. Then when the “deal” is done, there is an increased in the number of total shares in the company with each new acquisition! How was the shares sold? A big question mark?



....UNQUOTE





icon_rolleyes.gif What say you brothers & sister....your views please...thank you all. notworthy.gif



wub.gif Cheers to all....take care too on this festive days. wub.gif
Jordy
post Sep 8 2010, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:43 AM)
But i wanna buy below 2.08  vmad.gif
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yok70,

Why buy so expensive? That price is almost fully valued.

QUOTE(monkeyking @ Sep 8 2010, 02:40 AM)
icon_rolleyes.gif Just read one of the readers comment in a blog.....
whistling.gif I quote....
....UNQUOTE
icon_rolleyes.gif What say you brothers & sister....your views please...thank you all. notworthy.gif
wub.gif Cheers to all....take care too on this festive days. wub.gif
*
monkeyking,

It is what we called private placement. The new shares were sold to selected institutional investors.
whizzer
post Sep 8 2010, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 8 2010, 07:39 AM)
yok70,

Why buy so expensive? That price is almost fully valued.
monkeyking,

It is what we called private placement. The new shares were sold to selected institutional investors.
*
I think for most reit, private placement is preferred first. Only if they cannot get, then they will go through rights issues or other means. Through private placement, the reit can also do a win-win deal e.g. injection of private placement via swap for equity. I daresay going the rights issue way might be more costly for them and takes sometime to come about. Furthermore, they cannot guarantee 100% subscription. Maybe some sifu can comment. hmm.gif
yok70
post Sep 8 2010, 12:47 PM

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I think what monkeyking said is to give it for FREE. Since the profit for each unit has been diluted because of increment of units, the company suppose to give for free to existing holders such as free BI or RI offers to shareholders on good performing ordinary stocks.

And ya, I also quite piss off as so far I see ALL reits don't give free gifts to shareholders. blink.gif

This post has been edited by yok70: Sep 8 2010, 12:49 PM
Jordy
post Sep 8 2010, 08:13 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 8 2010, 12:47 PM)
I think what monkeyking said is to give it for FREE. Since the profit for each unit has been diluted because of increment of units, the company suppose to give for free to existing holders such as free BI or RI offers to shareholders on good performing ordinary stocks.

And ya, I also quite piss off as so far I see ALL reits don't give free gifts to shareholders.  blink.gif
*
yok70,

How to give shares for FREE? That is like throwing money into the river. Even bonus issue is not free, so how do the company give it out for free? Raising fund through private placement also does not necessarily mean dilution. The funds raised will be used to acquire new properties, which will add to the income. Also, I'm grateful enough that the REITs I buy provide me stable and high yield. What other gifts I need from REITs? If you want free gifts, then you should go for Genting, not REITs.
whizzer
post Sep 8 2010, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 8 2010, 12:47 PM)
I think what monkeyking said is to give it for FREE. Since the profit for each unit has been diluted because of increment of units, the company suppose to give for free to existing holders such as free BI or RI offers to shareholders on good performing ordinary stocks.

And ya, I also quite piss off as so far I see ALL reits don't give free gifts to shareholders.  blink.gif
*
eh? Here's a shocker blink.gif There no such thing as a free lunch tongue.gif

Personally for me, I believe that REIT would only give you RI (BI.. I m not too sure) if they are seriously in need of cash because they are overleveraged. There are precedent of this happening in Singapore REIT. I remembered that last year ASCENDAS Reit had a 1-15 RI. I believe they did that to overcome some serious capital refinancing problems caused by the financial crisis.

Here's a link on rights issue -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_issue
particularly ....
"Companies usually opt for a rights issue either when having problems raising capital through traditional means or to avoid interest charges on loans"

so RI not necessarily a good thing. hmm.gif

This post has been edited by whizzer: Sep 8 2010, 08:37 PM
monkeyking
post Sep 10 2010, 02:10 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 8 2010, 01:47 PM)
I think what monkeyking said is to give it for FREE. Since the profit for each unit has been diluted because of increment of units, the company suppose to give for free to existing holders such as free BI or RI offers to shareholders on good performing ordinary stocks.

And ya, I also quite piss off as so far I see ALL reits don't give free gifts to shareholders.  blink.gif
*
icon_rolleyes.gif Brother yok70, you got me all wrong..... I don't mean to give it for FREE...what is quoted here is from a member of another blog & I just wish for some comments. BTW, brother yok70, nothing is FREE in this world.....perhaps go to the CHINESE TEMPLES for FREE VEGETARIAN FOOD on every 1st & 15th day of the CHINESE CALENDER MONTH. thumbup.gif


thumbup.gif See how the SINGAPORE REITS WAY IS REWARDING THEIR LOYAL SHAREHOLDERS & IT'S DEFINATELY NOT THE MALAYSIAN WAY.......AND THE SINGAPORE REITS RIGHT ISSUES AT A DISCOUNT OF 26.5%..........I QUOTE BELOW...



thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
QUOTE
REIT Financial News - 9 SEP 2010: Notice of rights issue books closure date for AIMSAMPIReit


NOTICE OF RIGHTS ISSUE BOOKS CLOSURE DATE for AIMSAMPIReit. See press release.

Key Points

    * Eligible Unitholders will receive their Rights Entitlements on a basis of seven (7) Rights Units for every twenty (20) existing Units held by each Eligible Unitholder as at the Rights Issue Books Closure Date.
    * Important dates and times in respect of the Rights Issue:




Key Points

    * Proposed acquisition of a high-quality industrial property at 27 Penjuru Lane Singapore 609195 for S$161.0 million.
    * New debt facility of S$280.0 million.
    * Fully underwritten renounceable 7 for 20 rights issue to raise S$79.6 million.
    * The Rights Issue Books Closure Date which is expected to be 5.00 p.m. on 20 September 2010.
    * The Rights Units will be issued at a price of S$0.155 per Rights Unit, which is a discount of 32.6% to the closing price of S$0.230 per unit on 19 August 2010 and which is a discount of 26.5% to the theoretical ex-rights price (“TERP”) of S$0.211.
    * The Manager expects to raise gross proceeds of S$79.6 million, of which:


          o S$64.5 million will be used to part satisfy the total cash cost of the Acquisition.
          o S$4.8 million will be used to pay for underwriting and selling commissions and professional and other fees and expenses.
          o S$10.3 million will be used to pay for debt related costs and for general corporate and working capital purposes.

thumbup.gif PLEASE SEE SNAPSHOT ENCLOSED...




wub.gif CHEERS BROTHER.....SELAMAT HARI RAYA

This post has been edited by monkeyking: Sep 10 2010, 02:19 AM


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yok70
post Sep 10 2010, 07:50 PM

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Cheers guys, I think I've used the word FREE inaccurately. Sorry. biggrin.gif

What I actually mean was, when a company wants to increase their capital, they sometimes do BI. And when they increase unit of shares to increase capital, existing shareholder's shares will be diluted. And how they treat shareholders fairly is that they offer the same amount of extra units to the shareholders. ie. 1 on 1 BI ends up shareholders holding double of shares they used to have, so that the dilution of EPS does not affects their total profit from the shares they own.

Now comes to the case of REITs. When they increase capital, they DON'T offer BI. So the EPS of existing shareholders' shares becomes diluted immediately. Of course, the new assets may provide more profit in the future, but at the moment, they may not too. For non-Reit companies, after they increase capital, they also use those extra capital to gain more income in the future too. But at the moment, they offer BI to their shareholders so that the profit of their owning shares remains the same.

I hope this explanation is clear enough.
Cheers. biggrin.gif

ps: I used the word "FREE" because in chinese, they wrote something like this:
手套股建議以11比例派1億5986萬6976紅股。
"" in English is "free gift".

This post has been edited by yok70: Sep 10 2010, 08:17 PM
Jordy
post Sep 11 2010, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 10 2010, 07:50 PM)
Cheers guys, I think I've used the word FREE inaccurately. Sorry.  biggrin.gif

What I actually mean was, when a company wants to increase their capital, they sometimes do BI. And when they increase unit of shares to increase capital, existing shareholder's shares will be diluted. And how they treat shareholders fairly is that they offer the same amount of extra units to the shareholders. ie. 1 on 1 BI ends up shareholders holding double of shares they used to have, so that the dilution of EPS does not affects their total profit from the shares they own.

Now comes to the case of REITs. When they increase capital, they DON'T offer BI. So the EPS of existing shareholders' shares becomes diluted immediately. Of course, the new assets may provide more profit in the future, but at the moment, they may not too. For non-Reit companies, after they increase capital, they also use those extra capital to gain more income in the future too. But at the moment, they offer BI to their shareholders so that the profit of their owning shares remains the same.

I hope this explanation is clear enough.
Cheers.  biggrin.gif

ps: I used the word "FREE" because in chinese, they wrote something like this:
手套股建議以11比例派1億5986萬6976紅股。
"" in English is "free gift".
*
yok70,

I think you have mistaken bonus issue with rights issue. Bonus issue does not increase the company's capital. It in fact reduces the company's capital as they are transferring their cash into stocks and distribute it back to the investors. Bonus issue does not increase the company's value, thus a bonus issue will only dilute the price of the stock and the EPS of the stock as the outstanding shares has increased. For rights issue, companies will sell rights to buy additional shares to existing shareholders to raise capital.
constant
post Sep 11 2010, 12:28 AM

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Bonus issue has no effect on NTA. It definitely does not increase nor decrease company capital. It is an accounting entry capitalising some reserve account into issued capital. Shareholders equity remain unchanged.
smartly
post Sep 11 2010, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 10 2010, 07:50 PM)
Cheers guys, I think I've used the word FREE inaccurately. Sorry.  biggrin.gif

What I actually mean was, when a company wants to increase their capital, they sometimes do BI. And when they increase unit of shares to increase capital, existing shareholder's shares will be diluted. And how they treat shareholders fairly is that they offer the same amount of extra units to the shareholders. ie. 1 on 1 BI ends up shareholders holding double of shares they used to have, so that the dilution of EPS does not affects their total profit from the shares they own.

Now comes to the case of REITs. When they increase capital, they DON'T offer BI. So the EPS of existing shareholders' shares becomes diluted immediately. Of course, the new assets may provide more profit in the future, but at the moment, they may not too. For non-Reit companies, after they increase capital, they also use those extra capital to gain more income in the future too. But at the moment, they offer BI to their shareholders so that the profit of their owning shares remains the same.

I hope this explanation is clear enough.
Cheers.  biggrin.gif

ps: I used the word "FREE" because in chinese, they wrote something like this:
手套股建議以11比例派1億5986萬6976紅股。
"" in English is "free gift".
*
BI increase capital ?

BI only affects the followings,
1. # shares increase hence EPS decrease.
2. div may decrease (depending on profit)
yok70
post Sep 11 2010, 02:41 AM

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QUOTE(Jordy @ Sep 11 2010, 12:14 AM)
yok70,

I think you have mistaken bonus issue with rights issue. Bonus issue does not increase the company's capital. It in fact reduces the company's capital as they are transferring their cash into stocks and distribute it back to the investors. Bonus issue does not increase the company's value, thus a bonus issue will only dilute the price of the stock and the EPS of the stock as the outstanding shares has increased. For rights issue, companies will sell rights to buy additional shares to existing shareholders to raise capital.
*
Please correct me if I was wrong. notworthy.gif

ie.

Before BI:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 10 million
share price: 3.00
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.10
cash: 15 million

After BI of 1 on 1:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 20 million
share price: 1.50
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.05
cash: 15 million - 10 million (the increase shares) * 1.00 (par value of 1.00) = 5 million.


Is the above correct? Especially the cash part. laugh.gif

Another question is,
If X = share issued * share price,
what do we call this X?

Thank you!


This post has been edited by yok70: Sep 12 2010, 01:01 AM
TScherroy
post Sep 13 2010, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(yok70 @ Sep 11 2010, 02:41 AM)
Before BI:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 10 million
share price: 3.00
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.10
cash: 15 million

After BI of 1 on 1:
par value: 1.00
share issued: 20 million
share price: 1.50
market cap: 30 million
eps: 0.05
cash: 15 million - 10 million (the increase shares) * 1.00 (par value of 1.00) = 5 million.
Is the above correct? Especially the cash part.  laugh.gif

Another question is,
If X = share issued * share price,
what do we call this X?

*
Incorrect.
BI won't decrease the cash, there is still same 15mil cash in the bank.

You only can issue BI when you have sufficient shareholder fund, aka retained profit or from share premium account. (share premium account arised from when you IPO time, let say your IPO price is Rm1.50, but you par value is Rm1, so you have RM0.50 registered into share premium account)

Company NTA = Company shareholder fund = Paid up capital + share premium account + retained profit.

So when you issued BI time, you deduct the retained profit or transfer the retain profit part become paid up capital only.

X = Market cap.


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