QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 14 2010, 12:51 PM)
So how do you know which road to follow is the right one? Take a pick or follow your father?Philosophy Do Human Need Religion?, some people say they can live without it
Philosophy Do Human Need Religion?, some people say they can live without it
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Oct 15 2010, 09:54 AM
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6,237 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
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Oct 15 2010, 10:07 AM
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All Stars
17,018 posts Joined: Jan 2005 |
QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 14 2010, 09:32 AM) Try to think religion as a road with signboard and u are the driver in your car. I cannot understand what you trying to say? Without road, how far can u go and where will your destination be ? It is necessary to have guidance for us to move on in life. Do non religion consider as one of the signboard too? Cause we have a one more choice nowaday. |
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Oct 15 2010, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Oct 15 2010, 09:54 AM) Thats the problem with religion. When One guy said that this road lead u to heaven, u believe and take that road. Another guy may come and tell u his point on another road. So u will never know where u will end up. But being without religion is like wandering in desert, easier to get lost and no guidance. Added on October 15, 2010, 11:36 am QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 15 2010, 10:07 AM) I cannot understand what you trying to say? non-religion are like desert without road. u have non to follow.Do non religion consider as one of the signboard too? Cause we have a one more choice nowaday. This post has been edited by Potatojii: Oct 15 2010, 11:36 AM |
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Oct 15 2010, 12:12 PM
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QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 15 2010, 11:35 AM) Thats the problem with religion. When One guy said that this road lead u to heaven, u believe and take that road. atheist all over the world disagrees with that. Another guy may come and tell u his point on another road. So u will never know where u will end up. But being without religion is like wandering in desert, easier to get lost and no guidance. Added on October 15, 2010, 11:36 am non-religion are like desert without road. u have non to follow. what makes you think atheist are lost? what makes you thing theist are right? |
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Oct 15 2010, 12:23 PM
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8,275 posts Joined: May 2006 |
QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 15 2010, 11:35 AM) Thats the problem with religion. When One guy said that this road lead u to heaven, u believe and take that road. i do not need to follow anyone on guidance, i listen, learn and use what i deem rightAnother guy may come and tell u his point on another road. So u will never know where u will end up. But being without religion is like wandering in desert, easier to get lost and no guidance. Added on October 15, 2010, 11:36 am non-religion are like desert without road. u have non to follow. blind faith is as bad as being lost in itself |
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Oct 15 2010, 12:37 PM
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Well from my opnion, atheist does not have any guidance to hold other than science.
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Oct 15 2010, 03:18 PM
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All Stars
17,018 posts Joined: Jan 2005 |
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Oct 15 2010, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE(broken_leg @ Oct 10 2010, 10:41 AM) religion is set guidance/regulation/controler for us to a better life to live in this world...some people might say they dont need it, i dont know y they say like that... religion = guidance/regulation/control, however,what about if we grow up as human but no guidance/regulation/controler???what would you be??? let say you dont believe in god and dont believe in religion...but you have a good live,rich,easy earn money tiaw2...one day u saw 1 good sexy beauty girl and u got horny and really want to make love with her....but you keep it in your brain, y re doin that???because u have a brain that tell you that thing is not good and a crime and if rape her,got caught by the bukit aman, masuk dalam kena hentam lagi, got jail,no body look for your busines....y this happend??? ur brain tell u that thing is not good and ok if no body see u and no law...and not ok if people see u rape that girl and bukit aman got u... the brain differentiate u from being animal and the rule help u from what your brain capable..... so...never say y people dont need this kind controller@guidance@rule@religion@what ever u name it.... guidance/regulation/control =/= religion. U forgotten about law, ethics, conscience, and morality. If there is no law, the person in ur example will not worry anything bout being caught (by bukit aman?) and got into jail, he will most like afraid of being into hell after life. And the thing that tell what is right and wrong is known as ethics. If u think that religion is the only thing in this world provide absolute rights about things, then naturally u think that people without religion are mostly get involve in illegal activities and commits sins all the time. QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 14 2010, 09:32 AM) Try to think religion as a road with signboard and u are the driver in your car. Refer to my reply above.Without road, how far can u go and where will your destination be ? It is necessary to have guidance for us to move on in life. It is a question on what do u absorb and think regarding the content of the signboard. If the signboard write *destination u wan to go*, so u will just follow it and go to that road? If u think logically, u should understand that this signboard is come from no where, u can believe it but cannot say for sure it will lead to the place u wan to go. QUOTE(Potatojii @ Oct 15 2010, 12:37 PM) Again, science and religion are not the two main things run over this world |
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Oct 15 2010, 07:29 PM
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Oct 15 2010, 11:12 PM
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3,592 posts Joined: Oct 2005 |
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Oct 18 2010, 02:30 AM
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Not needing a religion isn't the same as not needing a God. But that's a different issue.
You can't just look at one side and say "religion is a must because it gives guidance". There are religious people who can be incredibly evil and twisted. How often have we heard a murderer claiming "the Lord told me to do it" or "my religion commands me to wage war"? That doesn't mean all religious people are bad though. On the other hand there are also atheist philanthropists like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Robert Wilson. Heck, even Katherine Hepburn was an atheist. And of course there are criminals and evil men who are atheists. But to say religion is necessary as a moral compass is wrong. As one of my favorite comedian Bill Maher says: QUOTE "I'm not an atheist. There's a really big difference between an atheist and someone who just doesn't believe in religion. Religion to me is a bureaucracy between man and God that I don't need. But I'm not an atheist, no. I believe there's some force. If you want to call it God... I don't believe God is a single parent who writes books. I think that the people who think God wrote a book called The Bible are just childish. Religion is so childish. What they're fighting about in the Middle East, it's so childish. These myths, these silly little stories that they believe in fundamentally, that they take over this little space in Jerusalem where one guy flew up to heaven, no, no, this guy performed a sacrifice here a thousand million years ago. It's like, "Who cares? What does that have to do with spirituality, where you're really trying to get, as a human being and as a soul moving in the universe?" But I do believe in a God, yes." |
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Oct 18 2010, 03:08 AM
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3,385 posts Joined: Aug 2006 From: Sao Paolo, Brazil |
QUOTE(lin00b @ Oct 15 2010, 11:12 PM) science is not a guideline. science is knowledge/tool. atheist's guideline is their own moral compass and some say the golden rule Science is a manifestation of how mankind have moved on. It is how the mind have evolved over the ages.Think about it. We are made of stardusts, and becoming a sentient being, we are studying abt stardust and being aware and learnt about our own beginnings. Like Carl Sagan said, "we, who embody the local eyes and ears and thoughts and feelings of the cosmos, have begun to wonder about our origins star stuff contemplating the stars, organized collections of ten billion billion billion atoms, contemplating the evolution of nature, tracing that long path by which it arrived at consciousness here on the planet earth to that cosmos ancient and vast from which we spring." -Sagan We (the humans that originated from stardusts) are the Universe (because we were stardusts and humans, a part of the universe) becoming aware of itself! The universe spawned us, for us to be aware of itself! make sense? |
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Oct 18 2010, 03:17 AM
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wah you all argue to 28 pages,
actually if you all are good in history, Pascal's Wager would've answered this topic loong loong time ago. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager |
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Oct 18 2010, 03:43 AM
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Science says we are evolution from a stardust...
Science says that we came from monkeys... Why the dust on the ground still a dust after thousands of years... And why monkey still a monkey after thousands of years... |
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Oct 18 2010, 09:29 AM
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3,385 posts Joined: Aug 2006 From: Sao Paolo, Brazil |
QUOTE(setanselatan @ Oct 18 2010, 03:43 AM) Science says we are evolution from a stardust... Not all stardust turned to mass n living organism. The stardust that they talk abt is not normal dust u see on ur table. It contain vital elements for the creation of planets and stars, thus living organism if the condition permits.Science says that we came from monkeys... Why the dust on the ground still a dust after thousands of years... And why monkey still a monkey after thousands of years... Not all monkeys turned to humans. Some extincts and some moved on. Its natural selection. And evolution dont happen in thousands of years. Homo sapiens emerged around 250,000 years ago. We wont see any changes in evolution in our lifetime. We can see that thru fossils found and thru carbon dating. |
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Oct 18 2010, 10:27 AM
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2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(setanselatan @ Oct 18 2010, 03:43 AM) Science says we are evolution from a stardust... According to some religions and traditions, Man was created from clay. So take your pick from stardust or mud.Science says that we came from monkeys... Why the dust on the ground still a dust after thousands of years... And why monkey still a monkey after thousands of years... I personally find it incredibly arrogant for humans to believe we are specially created and placed into existence in this huge universe of a billion billion stars. Someone asked about monkeys and evolution in RWI's All About Religion v2 thread and I had replied in a lengthy post: » Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... « This post has been edited by ray123: Oct 18 2010, 10:31 AM |
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Oct 18 2010, 11:11 AM
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6,237 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
At some point in our discoveries, we have come to understand the world to be much bigger, much more awesome and mysterious than what were narrated and given by holy books. God as described in those holy books seems petty, small, emotional, pale in comparison with what we would now think a god should be. There may well be some kind of a god out there but definitely it is not the one given to us by some ancient goat herder or some wandering nomad tribe. How much more confidence that we need from firmly knowing the world than to buy into the ambigious and frequently wrong visions of these religions?
We need a "religion" but not the ones from the past. |
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Oct 18 2010, 11:38 AM
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3,385 posts Joined: Aug 2006 From: Sao Paolo, Brazil |
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Oct 18 2010, 11:11 AM) At some point in our discoveries, we have come to understand the world to be much bigger, much more awesome and mysterious than what were narrated and given by holy books. God as described in those holy books seems petty, small, emotional, pale in comparison with what we would now think a god should be. There may well be some kind of a god out there but definitely it is not the one given to us by some ancient goat herder or some wandering nomad tribe. How much more confidence that we need from firmly knowing the world than to buy into the ambigious and frequently wrong visions of these religions? Religion WAS a good guide to kick-start humanity and we WERE progressing as a civilization because of it. But its time has passed and now its the time for a new religion to tackle new challenges. We need a "religion" but not the ones from the past. Apparently, with 3 main religion is in childish conflict in the middle east (as Bill Maher put it). I cant find it convincing for the same ppl from the same creed to take about peace and tolerance. God in the Koran and in the Bible does not suit as a Supreme Being and the creator of the universe having to send a soul to be tormented in hell for eternity for some temporary sin on earth. Fairness in punishment is not there. An eye for an eye. If the Most Just and Most Fair does not give us this example, then who will. Koranic and Biblical God were there to educate ppl in that intended period alone - be it thru fear of eternal fire. But as mankind has evolved, God should treat that development with respect and give us a new revelation, instead of putting a stop to it all with Armageddon and Judgement Day. It will be such a waste to His own creation which has grown to be such an intelligent being. Does He afraid that we have grown to be too smart? |
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Oct 18 2010, 11:44 PM
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3,592 posts Joined: Oct 2005 |
QUOTE(setanselatan @ Oct 18 2010, 03:43 AM) Science says we are evolution from a stardust... probably the same reason why clay/dust/ash/water is still around (depending on your religious belief)Science says that we came from monkeys... Why the dust on the ground still a dust after thousands of years... And why monkey still a monkey after thousands of years... you come from your parents, why are your parents still around? |
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Oct 25 2010, 11:07 PM
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71 posts Joined: Oct 2010 |
QUOTE(Awakened_Angel @ Nov 15 2009, 05:28 PM) for your question from neutral and universal perspective point of view, I draw two conclusion 1) people tend to hope for miracle and wish that there are something larger than life that will save them, grant them wishes or even give them eternal happiness (heaven)..things out there that hold the question... who are we? why we are here? etc... they don`t care if this GOD exist or not, if you question them, they will bit their tongue and say I don`t care, I believe my god is true till the end... or some might say you mock t heir god and hit you... which this GOD don`t even say anythingto them.. everyrthing is said by priest.. or political leader... For GOD.. etc 2) or another type pf religion that deals with innerself rather than supreme being... like buddhism, atheistism, or even sciencism... which is not a religion.. but it governs what people think and see this world.... refer to my No1 example... from your POV I do agree that from then till now, religion controls people more effectively than politic.... when leader say a thing, public might react and hold a demo or riot... but when a priest say.. GOD had spoken to me.... and everyone listen and obey.... reflection time..... Added on November 15, 2009, 5:30 pm pork is chinese No1 delicacy.. and the chinese population is No1 in the world QUOTE(annariana @ Nov 15 2009, 05:06 PM) I don't have a specific religion I refer to, as this is supposed to be a general philosophic topic. What I can say is that religion is all about believing in God and divinity. In Buddhism, the monks and Buddhists are allowed to eat meat (even beef). Religion has been abused, yes you're right. No offense for Catholics here, I only highlighted that specific Wikipedia topic as it really amused me at some point, Catholic is so controversial on the sex abuse issue lol. If human can work well without religion, why religion still exist then? Added on November 15, 2009, 5:24 pm You should. PhD is getting sleepier than ever, seriously I really want to see it as bustling as Stuff For The Ladies lol I found your opinion very fascinating. It made me think that religion might not only serve as the base of our morale alone, it's a way of life, for some religion. Comparative religion had always been one of my favorite topic to read on. I don't know the cause of the Buddhist-no-beef issue, as nobody can really explain why Buddhism forbids beef. That's one of the weaknesses of non-revealed religion I guess. But then I read up a lot, on why Islam forbid muslims to eat pork, as it's widely discussed on the net at some point. They often related pork with diseases - so at some point they have a scientific argument for it, and it's not a practise derived from ancient times. This is what the muslims say - Why Can't I Eat Pork - IslamOnline And these are the verifications I found on the net on their scientific reasons not to eat pork - Pork Contains Worms And Causes Diseases? Pork's Dirty Secret (er, it's on pigs' environmental issues. i found it related somehow) No offense for pork eaters yeah, this is just something I wanted to share. Comments welcome, correct me if I'm wrong This is the truth, the monks in the Theravada Buddhist temple eat meat. When the Buddha was alive, he ate meat too, he didn't get to eat beef of course as he was in India, cows were/are sacred for Hindus. Almost all the people at the time followed Hinduism and he got his food offered from the people in India. How could he get to eat beef? He didn't specifically restrict his followers from eating meat or beef. The practice of vegetarianism in Buddhism wasn't introduced or promoted by the Buddha, but the Emperor Wu of Liang in China. People often get confused between Taoism and Buddhism. From I what heard and researched on the net, taoists are not allowed to eat beefs, as the Lord Lao Zi uses a "cow" as his transportation to travel around, and "the cow" is regarded as the lord too, so how can you eat your lord. In my opinion, due to this confusion resulting an idea of no-beefs-for-Buddhists, which should be a wrong idea. This post has been edited by PrettyLaidback: Oct 25 2010, 11:29 PM |
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