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Philosophy Do Human Need Religion?, some people say they can live without it

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Lexx
post May 6 2010, 04:42 PM

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well yes,religion give us moral reminder, the idea that we are not alone to

struggle through life, the idea that there is some higher purpose to our

existance
neoengsheng
post May 6 2010, 05:55 PM

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I believe religion is something to point someone down the right road. You don't need it if you have something else to guide you. For me, I based my decisions and actions on rational argument, evidence and moral value. I for one do not believe in any religion.

I believe that moral values are created by human society , not some divine being. People at ancient times need each other to survive, hence they work together, they take care of each other, they fight of threats together, thats how moral values are created.

I too believe religions and gods are just a creation to explain the unexplainable during the time of its creation and to soothe the pain of watching loved ones passed away. In some cases, it might be created to unite all the people under 1 leader.

Sorry if I offend anyone.
SUSKeith321
post May 6 2010, 08:30 PM

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write your name in history, and you live forever
witchx
post May 7 2010, 06:59 AM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 6 2010, 10:25 AM)
It depends on which school. Mahayana is big on heaven/hell. Theravada not so. Vajrayana, I dunno enuf abt it to say.
*
Theravada believes in samsara.... and the only afterlife is probably nirvana

This post has been edited by witchx: May 7 2010, 07:00 AM
teongpeng
post May 7 2010, 07:43 AM

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QUOTE(witchx @ May 7 2010, 06:59 AM)
Theravada believes in samsara.... and the only afterlife is probably nirvana
*

shakehead.gif
all buddhist school understands samsara and for the love of god....nirvana is not an afterlife. doh.gif

witchx
post May 7 2010, 08:29 AM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ May 7 2010, 07:43 AM)
shakehead.gif
all buddhist school understands samsara and for the love of god....nirvana is not an afterlife.  doh.gif
*
i beg to differ.... AFAIK buddhist schools does not believe in god though... at least not the one that i went to when I was younger which is the Buddhist Maha Vihara Brickfields. I was told that Buddha himself is not a god and never asked anyone to worship him and he was just a teacher spreading knowledge. I think its about time to go back there and speak to one of teachers in a Sunday school or something now lolz... i may have been told half truths...

but entering nirvana has similarities with afterlife where there is no more rebirth / reincarnation but the mind continues after physical death... hence i said nirvana is probably an afterlife in theravada buddhism but maybe i have not typed it out right...

This post has been edited by witchx: May 7 2010, 08:30 AM
Beastboy
post May 7 2010, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(witchx @ May 7 2010, 08:29 AM)
i beg to differ.... AFAIK buddhist schools does not believe in god though... at least not the one that i went to when I was younger which is the Buddhist Maha Vihara Brickfields. I was told that Buddha himself is not a god and never asked anyone to worship him and he was just a teacher spreading knowledge. I think its about time to go back there and speak to one of teachers in a Sunday school or something now lolz... i may have been told half truths...

but entering nirvana has similarities with afterlife where there is no more rebirth / reincarnation but the mind continues after physical death... hence i said nirvana is probably an afterlife in theravada buddhism but maybe i have not typed it out right...
*
Correct, Buddhists don't, or rather, are not supposed to worship gods. The Buddha himself was merely a reluctant teacher who din even wanna teach at first. He made it abundantly clear to everyone that he should'nt be treated as god. Originally, bowing to the Buddha was a form of paying respect in his culture. Its not worshipping. However many people today including lay Buddhists turned it into god worship, asking for forgiveness etc, against the wishes of the Buddha. The Buddha is dead and gone. He cannot forgive anyone or save them from their problems. He is not a god.

From the Buddhist text, nirvana is neither existence nor non existence. Unlike Hinduism, Buddhism does not believe in a soul. After you attain nirvana, with no soul and with neither existence nor non existence, there is no more "you." It can't be described as an afterlife. But if you have not attained nirvana yet, your consciousness will transfer to another body. That is a kind of afterlife.

Sorry if this strayed from the original topic. smile.gif

Gunsnrevolvers7
post Jul 20 2010, 04:59 PM

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Yeah. He also said that if you have any troubles, dont come praying to him. just follow his teachings. Lol. cool guy. hmm, humans have to understand that we have to have faith in ourselves. In humanity eventually. Not in god. Believe that humanity can do good. Believe that humanity can change for the better. Dont do something good just because you want to gain "points" to get into heaven. Do something good to know that you have made the world a better place for someone else to live in. But guess humans aren't mature enough to reach that stage yet. So, religion would have to stay around for lets say... another 70 years perhaps.

Also, understand buddhism is more of a teaching than a religion.
onijoseph
post Jul 30 2010, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 7 2010, 09:26 AM)
Correct, Buddhists don't, or rather, are not supposed to worship gods. The Buddha himself was merely a reluctant teacher who din even wanna teach at first. He made it abundantly clear to everyone that he should'nt be treated as god. Originally, bowing to the Buddha was a form of paying respect in his culture. Its not worshipping. However many people today including lay Buddhists turned it into god worship, asking for forgiveness etc, against the wishes of the Buddha. The Buddha is dead and gone. He cannot forgive anyone or save them from their problems. He is not a god.

From the Buddhist text, nirvana is neither existence nor non existence. Unlike Hinduism, Buddhism does not believe in a soul. After you attain nirvana, with no soul and with neither existence nor non existence, there is no more "you." It can't be described as an afterlife. But if you have not attained nirvana yet, your consciousness will transfer to another body. That is a kind of afterlife.

Sorry if this strayed from the original topic.  smile.gif
*
very true to my knowledge.
the transferring of consciousness can be termed as reincarnation, and karma plays an important role in it.
afterlife is merely stating the state of leaving the physical body, in which many religion use it to paint the picture of heaven and hell.
light_type
post Jul 30 2010, 06:17 PM

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I do, indeed relying on real religion. It is a walk through of the worlds.

Been in both non-enlightened and religious situations before, so I've experienced it..

IMO, no mortals really know this, but religion's reality. Not to force anyone here though
eddiez_zz
post Aug 13 2010, 10:16 AM

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This question had been asked when I study Morale in my uni.

In my opinion, i think human needs a religion.

Religion can make someone feel better, when there are facing with difficulty.
debiru-man13
post Aug 14 2010, 02:13 PM

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I do believe that humans need religion. Let's take moral values for example:

You could say that morality can be constructed solely from rational arguments or empathy a.k.a. the Golden Rule.

But I believe the problem for this is that arguments and empathy can be subjective.

Let's say self-beatings. This practice can be considered as an act of bravery, or self-redemption, according to some cultures. However, other cultures may view this practice simply as harming one's own body, inviting diseases to wounds, etc. Differing values.

Same as empathy, in which we would treat others as we would like to be treated. However, can a South African 20 year old know what a 70 year old Russian feels? Can a minister of a country empathize with the common man selling t-shirts at the night market?

Only religion provides the reason to break through all these subjectivities, by an objectivity, which is God, the creator of everything, which stands above everything.

Without religion, moral values would be as stable as fashion sense. Ever evolving, ever changing.
JayC75
post Aug 14 2010, 02:17 PM

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u only need religious when u r in trouble or lost fact in life..
robertngo
post Aug 14 2010, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(debiru-man13 @ Aug 14 2010, 02:13 PM)
I do believe that humans need religion. Let's take moral values for example:

You could say that morality can be constructed solely from rational arguments or empathy a.k.a. the Golden Rule.

But I believe the problem for this is that arguments and empathy can be subjective.

Let's say self-beatings. This practice can be considered as an act of bravery, or self-redemption, according to some cultures. However, other cultures may view this practice simply as harming one's own body, inviting diseases to wounds, etc. Differing values.

Same as empathy, in which we would treat others as we would like to be treated. However, can a South African 20 year old know what a 70 year old Russian feels? Can a minister of a country empathize with the common man selling t-shirts at the night market?

Only religion provides the reason to break through all these subjectivities, by an objectivity, which is God, the creator of everything, which stands above everything.

Without religion, moral values would be as stable as fashion sense. Ever evolving, ever changing.
*
but the moral value of every religions are different, even the different branch within that religion will have different moral value. how can that be stable?
thesoothsayer
post Aug 17 2010, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE
UPDATE :

We're already came this far. So now, I have 1 question for you to answer, directly. No straying. Please answer according to your own belief, I know we have Buddhists, Christians, Muslims, atheists, agnostics, whatever beliefs here. I don't want to be general, just state what you believe so that we can SHARE the knowledge of different perspectives here. NO DEBATES please. And, please answer in 123s.

Example :

I need religion because :
1.
2.
3.
4.


Question:

So you need religion. Why do you need religion? What aspect of YOUR religion do you need in your life, and what aspect that you don't need, and why? Please answer according to your own religion and beliefs, do NOT BE GENERAL.

or

So you do not need religion. What about religion that is so against your logic? Do you need the spirituality? If you do, why only the spirituality? And what change will spirituality do to your life? What do you think about people who are religious?

or

So you do not need religion, and God does not exist. Why do you have that logic? Why spirituality does not matter? What do you think about life after death, being an atheist? What do you think about people who are religious?


I don't need religion.

I believe that organised religion was developed as a way for the elites to control the masses. I don't need spirituality. People who are religious are welcome to keep their religion to themselves and not try to propagate it or impose their values to others.

Who created us? God? Why is there a need for there to be a God to have created us? Who created God then? And so on. After death, there's nothing.
teongpeng
post Aug 17 2010, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(witchx @ May 7 2010, 08:29 AM)
i beg to differ.... AFAIK buddhist schools does not believe in god though... at least not the one that i went to when I was younger which is the Buddhist Maha Vihara Brickfields. I was told that Buddha himself is not a god and never asked anyone to worship him and he was just a teacher spreading knowledge. I think its about time to go back there and speak to one of teachers in a Sunday school or something now lolz... i may have been told half truths...
For the love of god.....what makes u think i think buddhists believe in god?
QUOTE(witchx @ May 7 2010, 08:29 AM)
but entering nirvana has similarities with afterlife where there is no more rebirth / reincarnation but the mind continues after physical death... hence i said nirvana is probably an afterlife in theravada buddhism but maybe i have not typed it out right...
*

thats not it either. the mind cease when one achieves nirvana.


Added on August 17, 2010, 11:48 pm
QUOTE(thesoothsayer @ Aug 17 2010, 11:40 PM)
After death, there's nothing.
*

and u know because?


Added on August 17, 2010, 11:49 pm
QUOTE(robertngo @ Aug 14 2010, 10:45 PM)
but the moral value of every religions are different, even the different branch within that religion will have different moral value. how can that be stable?
*

customs may differ, but virtue remain the same.


This post has been edited by teongpeng: Aug 17 2010, 11:49 PM
thesoothsayer
post Aug 17 2010, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 18 2010, 12:45 AM)

Added on August 17, 2010, 11:48 pmand u know because?
No one knows. I'm just answering the TS's questions on what I think.
debiru-man13
post Aug 18 2010, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ Aug 14 2010, 10:45 PM)
but the moral value of every religions are different, even the different branch within that religion will have different moral value. how can that be stable?
*
True, true. That is the reality of things. But if you consider an isolated environment, where a community only has to abide to one religion, everyone would conform to only one set of standards. Hence, you have stability. Arguments will be diffused by a higher principle, which is God.

Looking at the larger picture, there CAN be stability, not through total conformity but tolerance. I think major religions have already covered this aspect. By doctrines, at least. People's personal choices however, is an entirely different story.
lin00b
post Aug 19 2010, 12:57 AM

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QUOTE(debiru-man13 @ Aug 18 2010, 01:10 AM)
True, true. That is the reality of things. But if you consider an isolated environment, where a community only has to abide to one religion, everyone would conform to only one set of standards. Hence, you have stability. Arguments will be diffused by a higher principle, which is God.

Looking at the larger picture, there CAN be stability, not through total conformity but tolerance. I think major religions have already covered this aspect. By doctrines, at least. People's personal choices however, is an entirely different story.
*
true... north korea is pretty stable if you look at it "big picture" like. so's iraq when under saddam - at least more stable than now. but how does this relate to religion?

and since when has morality is not relative? case in mind "honor killing" horrible to you, honorable to them. seppuku - dumb for you, responsible for them.
SpikeMarlene
post Aug 19 2010, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(teongpeng @ Aug 17 2010, 11:45 PM)
and u know because?
*
He knows because he is spiritual just like two men communicating a vision of supernatural truth even though they are blind from birth. LOL.

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