QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ May 1 2010, 05:21 PM)
Truth with the capital T always needs some believing, isn't it? That goes with god with capital G too.
If i must relate God to a religion, then yea, i believe in Christianity and i need ChristianityPhilosophy Do Human Need Religion?, some people say they can live without it
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May 1 2010, 05:31 PM
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388 posts Joined: Mar 2008 From: PJ |
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May 1 2010, 05:48 PM
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6,237 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
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May 1 2010, 05:51 PM
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936 posts Joined: Jun 2005 |
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ May 1 2010, 04:40 PM) True.....thats why the world is what it is now.From taboos to customs to cultures including clothing. They are factored based on geographic factors and timely events. Even the Chinese in Malaysia and those in China have different habits. We here eat accordingly and those in Beijing say that if the plate is empty I'm not a good host. The same goes for religion. What a person perceives a a certain time will cause a person to believe more or less. Take those who go seek for help when a relative is sick. That I believe is a common case. Lets say he/she is a buddhist and he/she goes to a church (upon recommendation from a friend) to pray for a sick relative. When the relative is cured, then he/she will point finger at church and say its because of that religion. But what if it was just the medicine ? (which most of the time is the case) and the person went to a mosque? It is a fact that we see patterns where there are non. Is part of our brains function so that we simplify things. Thats why gut instinct is also actually guessing. Just with experience to add. The world is a full of different ideas and opinions. Take a look around and just read about customs of each sub-continent (eg. africa, us, canada, parts of europe, north/south/east/west asia/australia) and you will see. |
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May 1 2010, 07:22 PM
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72 posts Joined: Apr 2010 |
QUOTE(slimey @ Apr 30 2010, 11:28 PM) what proof or how do you know muhammad does not have knowledge on astronomy and science? as for the creation of human in mother's womb i am sure it is no way near accurate to what we know today. also test about that actually appear earlier than quran. moral appeared before religion. enough said. philosophy about moral appeared long before religion. also, the presence of many atheist leading a moral, just life is enough to show that we don't need religion for moral. At that time Arab people are consider barbarians. They love to war and love to kill. So, I don't the prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. would get any education about science and astronomy in an environment like that. And can you tell me about this philosophy about moral that you talk about and who created it. QUOTE(CleverDick @ May 1 2010, 12:38 AM) The development of embryo and the importance of semen had been known by greek philosopher Aristotle in about 300+ B.C.E,which was a millenium before the quran came to be,sorry to burst your bubble,this may seem 'scientific breakthrough discovery' at first glance,but in fact it wasn't something new... Could you tell me where you get the info about the Aristotle? I tried to find about it but I still can't find it. It would be great if you give me the link or anything regarding this matter morality is influenced by society norms,what is deem right to you may not be regarded as the same to some other cultures and their respective practices,and if your statement about all forms of morality come from god makes sense,then we should ascribe cannibalism,nazism,etc to god as those who embraced these ideas thought they're justified actions and according to them,should be performed... Peace... |
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May 1 2010, 07:32 PM
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648 posts Joined: Sep 2009 |
QUOTE(mashqi @ May 1 2010, 07:22 PM) At that time Arab people are consider barbarians. They love to war and love to kill. So, I don't the prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. would get any education about science and astronomy in an environment like that. And can you tell me about this philosophy about moral that you talk about and who created it. hereCould you tell me where you get the info about the Aristotle? I tried to find about it but I still can't find it. It would be great if you give me the link or anything regarding this matter Peace... http://science.jrank.org/pages/2452/Embryology.html the bolded part represents your personal belief,what has been told right to you by a book is not necessarily right to other people,so please don't ever cross the line... |
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May 1 2010, 07:49 PM
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72 posts Joined: Apr 2010 |
QUOTE(CleverDick @ May 1 2010, 07:32 PM) here Please compare between the Aristotle's theory and what is said in the quran.http://science.jrank.org/pages/2452/Embryology.html the bolded part represents your personal belief,what has been told right to you by a book is not necessarily right to other people,so please don't ever cross the line... http://www.islam101.com/science/embryo.html If the prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. copy from the theory, they would be the same. And please forgive me if I offended. The topic is do human need religion. I would say yes and by religion, I would mean Islam since that my religion. So, I would talk mostly refer to my belief. Peace.. |
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May 1 2010, 08:08 PM
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648 posts Joined: Sep 2009 |
QUOTE(mashqi @ May 1 2010, 07:49 PM) Please compare between the Aristotle's theory and what is said in the quran. see,the doctor mentioned has committed a repeated fallacy,interpret the verse into whatever he likes,a veil of darkness can be interpreted as abdominal wall followed by the processes afterwards,but even if that counts,there seems to be a mistake among all of the verses mentioned,http://www.islam101.com/science/embryo.html If the prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. copy from the theory, they would be the same. And please forgive me if I offended. The topic is do human need religion. I would say yes and by religion, I would mean Islam since that my religion. So, I would talk mostly refer to my belief. Peace.. this verse says bones develops first, "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh" (23:14). which is contradict to modern scientific knowledge,the correct sequence of organogenesis should have been started from the development of nervous system,the development of bones is followed long after that,another thing that confuses me a lot is the description of the sperm, does sperm look like a clot of blood?and most importantly,where's the maternal contribution to reproduction?without the presence of ovum then through some miraculous events the sperm starts to develop itself into an embryo? This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 6 2010, 06:11 PM |
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May 1 2010, 08:23 PM
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6,914 posts Joined: Apr 2007 |
QUOTE(mashqi @ May 1 2010, 07:22 PM) At that time Arab people are consider barbarians. They love to war and love to kill. So, I don't the prophet Muhammad p.b.u.h. would get any education about science and astronomy in an environment like that. And can you tell me about this philosophy about moral that you talk about and who created it. you are too narrow to only focus your attention at the arabs.... Could you tell me where you get the info about the Aristotle? I tried to find about it but I still can't find it. It would be great if you give me the link or anything regarding this matter Peace... as for the arab love to war and kill.... where's the source? can the source be trusted? the study of ethics begin long before islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics |
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May 1 2010, 09:49 PM
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6,237 posts Joined: Mar 2008 |
QUOTE(CleverDick @ May 1 2010, 08:08 PM) see,the doctor mentioned has committed a repeated fallacy,interpret the verse into whatever he likes,a veil of darkness can be interpreted as abdominal wall followed by the processes afterwards,but even if that counts,of all the verses mentioned,there seems to be a mistake, And it is also selectively quoted because this verse is conveniently forgottenthis verse says bones develops first, "Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh" (23:14). which is contradict to modern scientific knowledge,the correct sequence of organogenesis should have been started from the development of nervous system,the development of bones is followed long after that,another thing that confuses me a lot is the description of the sperm, does sperm look like a clot of blood?and most importantly,where's the maternal contribution to reproduction?without the presence of ovum then through some miraculous events the sperm starts to develop itself into an embryo? 86:5] Let the human reflect on his creation. [86:6] He was created from ejected liquid. [86:7] From between the spine and the viscera. [86:8] He is certainly able to resurrect him. Here is another translation (86:5-7) "He is created from a gushing fluid that issued from between the loins and ribs." Semen, according to the Quran, is formed not in the testicles, but somewhere "between the loins and ribs." The meaning of the text is pretty straight forward but the interpretation has to avoid the embarrasing contradiction with what we know today, it goes to great length to close the gap. If you read the rationalization to make it sounds right, it will make you smile. Here is one. "Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus! And that is a scientific fact! Thirteen centuries ago even the scientific community thought that semen is produced in the testicles. A pity! Mr. Shamoum thinks so even today. The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles." Might as well said that the elements are asembled from clay and dust from earth produced in the interior of stars. Why stop at the abdomen? Here is another …The words translated as “backbone” (sulb) and “ribs” (tarâ’ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: “It refers to the ‘sulb’ of the man and the ‘tarâ’ib’ of the woman…” He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet’s companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur’anic commentary. Many non-Arabs misinterpret this verse because they think that sulb and tara’ib refer to different body parts of the male. In reality, tara’ib is feminine, and refers to the female’s body part. For fourteen hundred years, all of the scholars have held this belief, and not a single classical scholar has ever differed on this point. The reason is that the Arabic makes it clear that tara’ib refers to a feminine body part, and not a male one. Now it has been interpreted that the verse refers to a female. So what did that really tell you? Nothing. It struggles to fit into what we know today. Amusing isn't it? This post has been edited by SpikeMarlene: May 1 2010, 09:50 PM |
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May 2 2010, 03:02 AM
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648 posts Joined: Sep 2009 |
QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ May 1 2010, 09:49 PM) And it is also selectively quoted because this verse is conveniently forgotten indeed,what is even more intriguing is that,if the book was indeed divinely inspired,then god,as an omnipotent ultimate author should have done a much better job in conveying it's message,but why,after thousands of years since the book was first compiled,it still takes readers' times and efforts to decipher what is encrypted inside those verses?and much worse the interpretations have to be constantly revised, i wonder wether god is obsessed with word puzzles or it's just another round of never ending test?86:5] Let the human reflect on his creation. [86:6] He was created from ejected liquid. [86:7] From between the spine and the viscera. [86:8] He is certainly able to resurrect him. Here is another translation (86:5-7) "He is created from a gushing fluid that issued from between the loins and ribs." Semen, according to the Quran, is formed not in the testicles, but somewhere "between the loins and ribs." The meaning of the text is pretty straight forward but the interpretation has to avoid the embarrasing contradiction with what we know today, it goes to great length to close the gap. If you read the rationalization to make it sounds right, it will make you smile. Here is one. "Semen DOES NOT COME from the testicles, period! It is neither produced in the testicles, nor does it come from the testicles during the time of coitus! And that is a scientific fact! Thirteen centuries ago even the scientific community thought that semen is produced in the testicles. A pity! Mr. Shamoum thinks so even today. The semen contains many things. Between 95 to 98% of it consists of fructose, prostaglandin hormones, metal and salt ions, lipids, steroid hormones, enzymes, basic amines, and amino acids. All those are produced from the glands located in abdomen. Between 2 to 5% of it consists of the sperms produced in the testicles." Might as well said that the elements are asembled from clay and dust from earth produced in the interior of stars. Why stop at the abdomen? Here is another …The words translated as “backbone” (sulb) and “ribs” (tarâ’ib) are not understood in Arabic to belong to the same person. Arabs understand the “sulb” to refer to a part of the male body and the “tarâ’ib” to a part of the female. Ibn Kathîr states: “It refers to the ‘sulb’ of the man and the ‘tarâ’ib’ of the woman…” He then quotes this interpretation on the authority of the Prophet’s companion Ibn `Abbâs. This same understanding is given in all the major classical works of Qur’anic commentary. Many non-Arabs misinterpret this verse because they think that sulb and tara’ib refer to different body parts of the male. In reality, tara’ib is feminine, and refers to the female’s body part. For fourteen hundred years, all of the scholars have held this belief, and not a single classical scholar has ever differed on this point. The reason is that the Arabic makes it clear that tara’ib refers to a feminine body part, and not a male one. Now it has been interpreted that the verse refers to a female. So what did that really tell you? Nothing. It struggles to fit into what we know today. Amusing isn't it? This post has been edited by CleverDick: May 2 2010, 11:59 PM |
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May 2 2010, 10:43 AM
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All Stars
17,018 posts Joined: Jan 2005 |
QUOTE(slimey @ May 1 2010, 08:23 PM) you are too narrow to only focus your attention at the arabs.... It is normal for religion people to focus on their religion side to give opinion and view. Specially when everything you live till you death is religion matter. as for the arab love to war and kill.... where's the source? can the source be trusted? the study of ethics begin long before islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics That is why the world is still facing problem with this individual only know their religion and don't care about others matter. That is why the world is still fighting with religion war with narrow minded people. |
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May 2 2010, 04:22 PM
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457 posts Joined: Mar 2007 |
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This post has been edited by marsalee: Nov 13 2010, 08:15 PM |
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May 2 2010, 11:04 PM
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936 posts Joined: Jun 2005 |
Regardless of which religion. As long as people go around saying that mine is better than yours instead of just accepting differences it will remain as such. I am willing to bet that in arab, they don't paint a pretty picture of the westerners as well.
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May 4 2010, 02:01 PM
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87 posts Joined: Nov 2004 |
QUOTE(sakaic @ May 2 2010, 11:04 PM) Regardless of which religion. As long as people go around saying that mine is better than yours instead of just accepting differences it will remain as such. I am willing to bet that in arab, they don't paint a pretty picture of the westerners as well. Thats the problem with monotheismIslam says there is only one god and thats their god, one and only in this world Christian say there is only one god, and their own god is the only one So from their perspective, either their religion is wrong, or the other one is wrong. Someone has to be wrong and is going to hell |
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May 5 2010, 03:19 PM
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242 posts Joined: Nov 2009 |
Do humans need religion?
Its an incomplete question. Do they need it to fly to the moon? No. Do they need it to live? No. (Food, water & air is enuf.) Do they need it to be happy? Yes for some, no for some. Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes. The answer will change depending on the purpose one needs religion for which is not defined, so the question is vague & cannot be answered. Can someone rephrase the question? |
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May 6 2010, 06:29 AM
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121 posts Joined: Jun 2009 |
QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 5 2010, 03:19 PM) Do humans need religion? IMO thats a complete question that needs not to be rephrased.Its an incomplete question. Do they need it to fly to the moon? No. Do they need it to live? No. (Food, water & air is enuf.) Do they need it to be happy? Yes for some, no for some. Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes. The answer will change depending on the purpose one needs religion for which is not defined, so the question is vague & cannot be answered. Can someone rephrase the question? Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes. <----------- in regards to your comment here, the answer should be Yes for some, no for some. Coz why would everyone need to believe in heaven, hell and afterlife? I for one don't believe in them as it can't be proven except in books or scripts that was written ages ago and passed on by word of mouth.... |
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May 6 2010, 08:55 AM
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242 posts Joined: Nov 2009 |
QUOTE(witchx @ May 6 2010, 06:29 AM) Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes. <----------- in regards to your comment here, the answer should be Yes for some, no for some. Coz why would everyone need to believe in heaven, hell and afterlife? I for one don't believe in them as it can't be proven except in books or scripts that was written ages ago and passed on by word of mouth.... Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes.Its the same as saying "If one wants to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife, yes." "If" is a conditional clause. If one doesn't want to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife, then one doesn't need religion. We are actually in agreement that some want to believe in it, some don't. |
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May 6 2010, 08:59 AM
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606 posts Joined: Apr 2008 |
the clear ans is no
But again there gonna be many religious group that gonna disagee with me as they think the only reason they / the world can survive is with the existence of their god. I dont see god coming down to earth to stop tsunami and prevent earth quake . His existence is merely for emotion comfort which doesnt change or contribute to anything. |
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May 6 2010, 10:11 AM
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3,592 posts Joined: Oct 2005 |
QUOTE(Beastboy @ May 6 2010, 08:55 AM) Do they need it to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife? Yes. technically buddhism dont really have a heaven/hell/afterlifeIts the same as saying "If one wants to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife, yes." "If" is a conditional clause. If one doesn't want to believe there's heaven, hell and an afterlife, then one doesn't need religion. We are actually in agreement that some want to believe in it, some don't. |
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May 6 2010, 10:25 AM
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