That's interesting stuff, i'll have to read up on that. In any case, I've personally never used a smith machine (the gym I go to doesn't have one, only a squat rack). Perhaps we're generalising too much here, but machines do help with SOME movements like the shoulder press and chest press form. And there's some machines that I feel are indespensable simply because I can't do them using free weights (lat pulldowns, tricep pressdowns, cable standing flyes, leg press etc.)

And I would concede to your points about free weights vs machines, save for the fact that it is on the assumption that the newbies in question actually have someone experienced on hand to spot and guide them with the free weights in the gym.

The articles here all say pretty much the same thing: Free weights should be the basis of one's training regimen, and are machines to supplement free weights.
The pros of using machines is that it doesn't really require supervision/spotters, and you don't have to fear having your face bashed in by a dumbell or ribcage cracked from a barbell.

source

As most of you probably notice (and practice), gym regulars don't really bother to give coaching to "them unwashed newbs" stumbling around the gym with no idea of how to train.

Why the lat pulldown when there is the pullup?

Lat pull down allows you to train your lats light than your body weight. I'm 82kg and it's impossible for me to do 4 sets of 10 pull ups with proper form. With the lat pull down, I can do a weight lighter than 82kg and so I train my lats properly with proper form.

We could go on all day about machines VS freeweights. Yet the point I'm trying to make is, machines do have a place, which is best after exhausting the primary muscles via the primary mover activities that fry everything including the stabilizers. Then once these little stabilizer muscles have been fried, proceed to the machines and do a few more sets to then work the targeted muscles even more. Excellent for bodybuilding.

I'm almost using this word stabilizers excessively recently, because I've got a few clients that don't understand why I'm changing their ab twist and side bends with dumbbells, to an old 16" tire and slamming it around. Then they wake up the next day with sore oblique muscles, arm, legs, back and even hips.

Same reason as above.

That is bull-crap. I've stumbled upon many first-time trainees in the gym who start off with biceps curl and end their session with wrist curls. I've also seen many co**heads who come to the gym, do some cable curls and call it "Strength Workout".

So what will their reaction be when I come up to them and ask them to do something more decent? They say yes and they walk away continuing whatever rubbish they are doing previously.

Its not that we don't bother helping out whatever we can to noobs like you, you people just can't be bothered. You people rather listen to the salesman/saleswoman in GNC. I'm not IFBB pro or whatsoever, up to you to take my advice or not

This post has been edited by shanecross: Nov 1 2009, 12:22 PM

I've seen guys (and these are not pure noobs) where their entire workout consists of bicep curls. Standing bicep curls, sitting bicep curls, lying bicep curls, lying face down bicep curls, and other bicep curls which I am not bothered to name. I finish squatting, bulgarian split squats, romanian deadlifts, calf work, and they still have not finished curling.

The problem with most beginners is that they just don't bother to read up and gain some knowledge before they start. Their number one focus is big biceps, so hey if i do bicep curls I'll have bigger biceps right? They only have 2 things on their mind: How to get bigger biceps? What supplement should I take?

As shanecross mentioned, its not that we don't want to help. My friends would sometimes ask me what to do to get started, I'd just send them a copy of Starting Strength and tell them to read it and get back to me, together with some nutrition articles.

This is not a jab at ALL complete beginners, but a big proportion of them are like that, which is sad. Because if more total beginners would listen to experienced guys, then more experienced guys would be willing to teach and correct stuff.

My advice to beginners out there is to be humble and be willing to learn.

This post has been edited by Desvaro: Nov 1 2009, 02:02 PM

If newbs want to learn, they should ask. We are not in the gym just to teach newbs, we have our training to do too. If they ask, of course we are glad to teach them a thing or two.

Assisted pull-ups and dips sucks. Did not have any improvement for 6 months until I read an article to start with the real thing even if its only one rep. My dips now improved a lot now but my pull ups is still seriously lagging. Seems like I can't hang on to the wide grip pull ups but the narrow grip is not too bad.

Its still a tool maybe we didnt know the way to use it...lol
but i trained one overweight boy from 0 pull ups to 9x by using negatives and kipping pull-ups.


Chow

9 time strict form or kipping?

teach me teach me i am also a overweight man with zero pull up

didnt bata just said? negative pull ups. haha... means u cheap urself up, but go down slowly. i think youtube got loads of info bout this.
i started off with 1 pull ups too.
in a week, i manage to get 10 reps

quite strict form i would say.
nah, no magic lah u can learn yourself. lol
jump from a bench and go down slowly (negatives)

gratz to you


Chow

tried it last time. TOO PAINFUL man...haha especially after 3 heavy big compound.
but will probably do it again. now i feel still alot energy after the big compound. improved of stamina i think yeah

is the rank "stand" i dont know what is it called, considered as machine?

Probably weights are too light. By the time I'm done doing my 5x5 squats (which I only test once a week), I'm gassed out!

haha, not really light for me. probably due to i rest longer, as at the same time i am guiding my cousin how to lift

Okay, got your point.

Why so serious? And what's up with calling me a noob all of a sudden?

I'm 16, started with dumbbells then bodyweight workouts like push ups. Then moved to barbells.

I just can't seem to gain meat at my chest area. Meat not muscles.

You can do bench presses. If you want chest muscles, do them. Don't bother to do anything else. Go to gym, warm up, bench press many times, go home.

---

Added on November 6, 2009, 11:15 pmActually, you shouldn't even bother going to the gym. Just watch videos of people bench pressing will do.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Nov 6 2009, 11:15 PM

Tape two steaks to your chest. There, problem solved.