QUOTE(gtoforce @ Apr 12 2010, 08:43 PM)
well apparently HIIT works for me...at least i think
and yeah john's lucky for low bf%
us endos are just plain curse of god
HIIT burns muscle. Which is why you may not be growing as much as you'd like. I saw your pics. You look pretty good but no offense, with the time frame which passed you could have done a lot better bro. I saw in Bob Chic's thread that the smallest people there were the ones spewing out a lot of scientific gibberish and trying to make things complicated. Check this post out and his reply to it:-
QUOTE(resistance1;463031391)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Hey bob, I'm going on week 3 of my cut and have been performing 30-40 mins of fasted cardio everyday in the morning. I know your big fan/believer of fasted cardio. Just recently I came across this article on BB.com by Layne. I just wanted to hear what you think of Layne Norton's opinion on fasted cardio. Thanks!
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Cardiovascular exercise has several myths surrounding it. The largest myth being that one should perform low intensity cardio in a fasted state. The logic being that if one is in a fasted state, their glycogen levels will be low and will force their body to burn fat. Unfortunately, this idea is misguided.
While performing cardio in a fasted state may indeed increase the amount of calories that are burned from fat stores, it will also increase amino acid oxidation. Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss.
Additionally, I find it ironic that many people take such great care to time their meals so that they do not go for more than 2-3 hours without eating in order to prevent muscle loss. However, they purposefully induce this state and then perform work on top of this!
Research has shown that the type of substrate used during cardiovascular work makes little overall difference on fat loss. This is most likely due to the fact if one relies mostly upon fat stores during cardio (i.e. low intensity cardio), the body will burn predominantly glucose at other times of the day. Likewise, if one mainly utilizes glucose for energy during cardio (i.e. high intensity cardio) the body will customarily rely on fat at other times of the day in order to spare muscle glycogen.
Training in and of itself causes the body to preferentially spare muscle glycogen and burn fat. It makes sense that one should strive to do their cardio on their 'off days' from lifting (as to not further hinder their recovery), and plan their carbohydrate intake similar to their lifting regime.
Cardiovascular work will increase nutrient partitioning towards muscle tissue and away from fat tissue. One should take advantage of this by consuming the bulk of their carbohydrate intake around this time. The benefits are that these nutrients induce fat storage, but will rather be stored in muscle tissue.
Why would you want to deny your muscles nutrients at the most crucial time of the day, but then provide them during rest? It does not make sense. Treat your cardiovascular work like your lifting.
Another question that often arises regarding cardio is the argument "Low-Intensity vs High-Intensity" cardio. Many people automatically assume that low-intensity cardio is better; citing that high-intensity cardio primarily utilizes glucose (anaerobic metabolism), while low-intensity cardio primarily burns fat (aerobic metabolism).
Once again, the substrate used during cardiovascular work is not as important as the caloric deficit created by the cardiovascular work. In actuality, high-intensity cardiovascular work is superior to low-intensity cardio for several reasons
High intensity cardio has a much stronger effect on GLUT-4 translocation in muscle cells due to the increased force of muscle contraction. This means that high-intensity cardio creates a much stronger nutrient partitioning effect towards muscle tissue than low-intensity cardio.
Low periods of low-intensity exercise tend to "overtrain" the fast-twitch muscle fibers and convert the intermediate muscle fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This is not a desirable effect as the fast twitch muscle fibers are those that have the greatest chance to hypertrophy. If your body has less fast twitch fibers, then you will experience less hypertrophy from training.
Understanding Muscle Fiber Types.
This article will deal mainly with how people think the muscle type makes no difference, how muscle type is over-rated and how it gets more credit...
[ Click here to learn more. ]
The body's hormonal response to high intensity cardio is similar to the body's hormonal response to resistance training (i.e. increased insulin sensitivity, gh release, Igf-1 release, etc) without placing the same strain on the nervous system as resistance training.
High-intensity cardio causes the body to preferentially store more carbohydrates and burn more fat.
High-intensity cardiovascular exercise increases oxygen expenditure and forces the body to adapt by becoming more efficient at oxygen transport (increase in VO2 max). More efficient oxygen transport to the muscles will increase fat oxidation as fat oxidation is dependant upon the presence of oxygen.
High-intensity cardio seems to be more muscle sparing. Several studies have shown that high-intensity interval training (aka HIT) burns less calories when compared to continuous lower intensity cardio. However, the skinfold losses were greater with the HIT group than in the continuous intensity group. This means not only did the HIT group lose more fat, they also spared more muscle tissue by burning less overall calories .
QUOTE(Pro Bob Chick;463238031)
Works on paper....
Problem is, it doesnt seem to translate into real life, and my experience in seeing guys use HIIT style cardio, is that they wasted away to nothing...often coming in stringy looking and sinewy
there are tons of studies on either side of the coin....but the practical application seems to favor the slow cardio.....i'm not as concerned with the "fasting' part of the process, since the whole premise is based on using fat for fuel, not carbs....
QUOTE(Panblades;314000511)
hey Bob, i am sure you are well-versed in the dynamics surrounding the carb up. please let me know if i am along the right lines.
1.) carbohydrates = solute
2.) water follows solute
3.) carb depletion primes the body for greater insulin sensitivity and
upregulates glut4 receptors for temporarily-enhanced glucose uptake into muscle cells
it is common knowledge that carb loading after a period of carb depletion will drive more carbs and any extracellular water into muscle cells.
this is my question:
if even for the foolish to desire to look great for a day for whatever vain reasons (for that special someone, or perhaps to be able to shamelessly wear tank tops for a day),
can the carb load be augmented by minimizing water intake, restricting sodium intake, and increasing potassium intake for just that day?my logic:
okay, water follows solute. with a large carb influx, the water is going to follow the carbs into the muscle cells. but drinking additional water throughout the day sounds like a good way to ensure that any leftover water that can no longer fit inside the muscle cells will remain in the extracellular space (subcutaneous water that may mask 24-hour definition). by only carb loading without drinking water at all, this should ensure that the water that is only there to begin with - subcutaneous water - will be near eliminated and driven into the muscle cells, even if temporarily. in other words,
less subcutaneous water = more definition. so, does a
waterless carb load make sense? for my sake and so that i won't suffer your slings and arrows, i am not making this assertion from a healthy, sensible, practical, or smart point of view. the restriction in water intake would probably go on for a few hours (and it usually takes relatively more prolonged dehydration to cause death). please keep this in mind before eating me alive (although i am asking for it
).
furthermore, potassium is an
intracellular ion. on the other hand, sodium resides in the
extracellular space. by minimizing sodium on that day only and increasing potassium intake, i am effectively saturating my cells with potassium, forcing a further gradient of water into the cells to maintain equilibrium.
in short
1.)
the gradient produced by the carb solute load2.)
coupled with the additional gradient produced by extra potassium intake3.)
coupled with short-term water restriction on the day that you want to look good4.)
should maximize the amount of water displacement from the extracellular to intracellular space, which should enhance short-term definition.what do you guys think? sensible (okay, okay, obviously this is stupid, but i am trying to apply biochemistry here!)
^^^^^
BLA BLA
QUOTE(Pro Bob Chick;314274211)
I got to be hnest here, bro....we tried all of what you just wrote...as scientific as it gets. I remember doing research on the exact senario you describe....and at the end of the day here s the conclusion I camr to:
sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.
The "smarter" I got, the worse I looked. something to be said for ignorance being bliss I guess....
Here is the bottom line:
The more complicated the program, the less likely you'll be able to pinpoint what worked and what didn't. More variables will only make it more confusing...
If I had to do it again...I would have simply gotten in condition 2 weeks out, and then made subtle changes leading up to the show....BTW...the entire cutting program is a depletion....to deplete after that, to try this magical "carbing up" program....doesn't work in life as it does on paper....trust me.
Sounds familiar? It's predominant even in our own forum here. All this 6 x 6 all dual phase shit, etc. Lol. I mean I don't want to mention names else they'd get touchy. But you get the drift.
Added on April 12, 2010, 8:52 pmQUOTE(JonYeap @ Apr 12 2010, 05:52 PM)
today is a happy day. =.=
all this while i never bench more than 90kg.
my 1rm, also around 90kg only.
that one also not confident so will ask a spotter to standby.
but today it felt so light, and i keep adding till i reach 100kg. =.=
hahhaha... i was kinda surprise that i manage to bench 100kg finally.
i even tried 107kg, almost made it, manage to push more than half way, but then it felt... lucky i got a fren nearby to help me bring it up.
i am so gonna stick to hypertrophy and slowly i believe my poundage will increase. =.=
The minute it becomes a game of the max rep...you've defeated the purpose and entered into the wait and see of getting injured.
This post has been edited by darklight79: Apr 12 2010, 08:52 PM 
Apr 7 2010, 11:16 PM
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) - and i know 160kg is like pijak semut to many of u guys here
hahah what u doing bumming here?
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