what would be considered an isat 'satisfactory result' for utas?....80?

http://www.economist.com/node/21528596

"Those who want to go abroad often have higher material standards of living than their peers in the West. They are looking for things they cannot buy: recognition of achievements, protection of property rights, physical safety, a functioning health service, a proper education for their children. They want to live a life which does not involve paying bribes, or losing one’s business for political reasons, or being jailed at the whim of a corrupt bureaucrat."

this article is about the malaise and corruption in russian society that permeates into all spheres, including education and healthcare.....and how a third of russians are thinking about migrating out....

yet 1000 msian students go to study medicine there every year, a country with known problematic education and healthcare systems......and many thinks they are receiving high standard training....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 24 2011, 01:12 PM

mma is a social grouping, and have no powers......but have many times voiced their concerns about the standards from some countries, and the over-production of doctors....

the mmc is basically controlled and dictated by politics.....the majority of members are nominated, not elected....

there is strong political support from some segments of society for continued easy and cheap access to medical training......these segments are generally not concerned about standards, to them it's either a business, or opportunity for their own families.....

if you look at countries with high standards of healthcare and medical education, it's the profession who controls this.....not politicians.....the doctors are themselves the creme de la creme, and they want those who joins their ranks to be from the same mould....their youths are generally also interested in becoming doctors, but the system in place prevents all but the best from entering.....

msian education is based on mediocrity and the lowest common denominator.....and thus many people in the profession are themselves mediocre to begin.....and they actually feel threaten if the younger ones are too good!......so there is no incentive to demand higher quality students and med schools.....and the system thus allows anyone with money to become doctors.....

the mmc did de-recognise one ukraine school 5 years ago.....and the political storm that created was enormous....i doublt if there will be a repeat...

they also have tried some damage control measures, the most recent being the minimum grades students must have to enter med school.....the effect of that rule is like saying you must have at least 3 limbs and 1 eye to drive......

addendum: the above comments are general in nature, about the direction and quality of medical training for doctors that will work in msia....it equally applies to ipta, ipts, as much as russia, egypt, indonesia etc....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 24 2011, 10:20 PM

see my addendum above....

in any case, the training of doctors CANNOT be based on the lowest common denominator of 'it greatly boils down to the individual as well'......

ie, let's let all and sundry be doctors.....it's okay.....after all, hopefully, some of them will be good students, and will become good competent doctors.....

it should be such that the system must insist and ensure ALL graduates are competent, safe, knowledgeable, skilled.....

however, don't confuse between the 'good' doctor and the competent one....

i presume you are also in utas.....

utas trains more doctors than is needed within tasmania, and graduates from utas have always been seeking employment in mostly vic, sometimes further afield as well.....

just as many from vic who could not enter melb or monash will accepts offers in utas....

this situation exists long before the issue about housemanship places arise.......

i think you will be onelove's batchmate then.....

i am quite sure the houseman job situation will be sorted out....at worst, just apply for regional hospitals.....even monash msia grads are getting offers in regional vic......

how many international students do utas take a year? what's their total intake nowadays?

thanks....i might need to sought help from the two of you later......

i take that to mean son also has conditional offer then.....

i believe the relative have decided to hedge their bets, and pay up, knowing full well they will loose some money should they reject, either to take another offer, or to take another course...I make sure they understand the implication of paying....

have you?.....

i believe podrunner's son is......

people fail because of basically 3 reasons.....

1. they did not study.....fool around, distracted, mental problem etc....

2. they are not interested but forced to do, so no motivation....

and msia has a 3rd category unique to msia, and some other 3rd world countries.....

3. they academically and intellectually should NOT be in med school.....but allowed to.....

hmm.....that makes 5 offers so far that i know....

ah.....was wondering, but did not get a straight answer earlier.....

windz
confirm
my relative
one college mate (however likely will reject, as also has offers from clayton and newcastle)

4 then.....

that is a very drastic change of direction! do you have the requisite science subjects?....

i would not bother with london, unless money is not an issue, or there are other good reasons why you should be in london....manchester is good mid size city with vibrant social/cultural scene and not as expensive.....however, note that some clinical students will be sent to hospitals outside the greater manchester metropolitan area, ie preston.....

don't worry about the style of med education....there are pros and cons to both systems....

pbl and integrated system describe different things, and are not mutually exclusive....integrated system just means vertical integration of knowledge into organ systems, instead of the traditional standalone subjects like anatomy, physiology, pathology etc.....pbl is just guided self learning based on identification of problems and solutions........

as for spoonfeeding, you will learn soon enough how to do self learning........in this respect, programmes like oz year12/sam/ausmat and ib will have prepared the student better in transiting from the didactic teaching of msian schools to modern student-centric goal-focused guided learning of good unis.....

relative's college mate.....there could be more that he is not aware of....

apparently 2nd round offers for newcastle also out....a few rejections from first round....

---

Added on October 4, 2011, 6:09 pmso where do the other international students come from?....

i wonder, with so many conditional offers, how many will actually get a firm offer at the end...they are just trying to lock in people, because they know they are never the top choice of most students.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Oct 4 2011, 06:09 PM

because they do not accept direct applications from international students...

taylor's placement centre of taylor's college sj has a special arrangement with newcastle to place up to 10 international students.....but application MUST be done through them.....

some of these 10 places are reserved for msia gov scholars (jpa/mara), not sure how many.....based on previous years' figures i think 5 or 6, the rest is open for private students.....this year 30 students are shortlisted for the pqa test and interview.....

there are not many undergrad medicine left.....adelaide and unsw with 6 year courses, and utas, monash, uws, jcu and newcastle with 5 years......

sporeans wouldn't want to go to jcu and uws, as they are not recognised in spore....utas will be a preferred option to them i would think, although most will eventually NOT return to spore....

Newcastle is not really new, and is recognised by smc....however, you are unlikely to find sporeans there, as they do not take direct applications from international students.....

a singaporean who will be graduating from uwa shortly has indicated he wants to go back, and undertake postgraduate there.....it is easier to get into a training post in spore than in oz, especially the popular ones....since he has been offered housemanship, he will be staying on for that first....

it is actually exciting times for medical practice and training in spore, as they are on expansion mode to cater to the rapidly increasing population, with several new hospitals just opened, or going to open....and before the new ntu/imperial med school start graduating......there will be a lot of jobs and training opportunities in spore for the next 7-8 years.....

oz fees increased above inflation rate in recent years, not just for medicine, but for all courses.....they are not bounded to follow inflation index.....and is used to cross subsidise local students, as the fed gov fail to increase funding to their unis correspondingly....the strong aud makes it worse...

they can continue to increase fees for medicine without impacting on enrolment, as this is a quota restricted course, and no matter what the asking fees are, there is no shortage of students queuing up to get in....

eg, for 2011 intake, unsw has 70 international places.....and 700 applicants....

you are confused between dermatology, which is a recognised medical sub-speciality (need to have mrcp/masters first), and aesthetic medicine, which is fringe medicine and has no official standing....

recognition of specialist is increasingly based on registration with the nsr.....when the new medical act is passed, this will become law, and become compulsory, like being registered with mmc as a medical doctor.....

only specified qualifications will be recognised, and this will stop doctors from calling themselves specialists without the necessary qualifications.....

https://www.nsr.org.my/fwbPage.jsp?fwbPageI..._PublicMainPage

This post has been edited by limeuu: Oct 10 2011, 09:08 AM