Just graduated from UKM with Actuarial Science degree and honestly, I wish I studied WAY harder for the professional exams. I only managed to pass 2 before I graduated and I'm worried that I won't have as much time to study once I find work. I just know that the 4 Dean's List students that passed 4/5 exams instantly got work in Actuarial department after graduation. As someone said above, these exams are important for employers to even LOOK at your resume. Right now, my alternative is banking but I wish I could penetrate insurance industry somehow... Guess I'll have to keep studying.

I don't regret getting into Actuarial Science (I don't have excellent results but I love this field of maths and how you have to use these numbers to make decisions in economy, explain in layman's terms and stuff) but I just wish people would stop hyping this course as "SURE HIGH PAY, SURE GET JOB ONE"! But there are definitely possibilities for actuarial students if they can't get into actuarial department. I heard that since actuarial students are known for being smart (high requirements to get into degree and stuff), you can also try investment or banking or risk management.

Allow me to estimate how many local actuarial graduates we have every years
UM : 40
UKM : 40
UTAR : 120
UCSI : 50
UITM : 50
USIM : 50
Total : 350

at least 350 local actuarial graduates for this year and this number is increasing every year! More local uni are offering actuarial science courses, e.g. Sunway, and I heard there is like over 50+ student in the latest batch. I think that more local uni like MMU taylor going to start offering this course in the near future (since more actuarial graduates = more actuarial lecturers available in the future!).

if you ask people in oversea uni which offer actuarial course (eg Southampton/Drake/Waterloo/Cass), they would say most of the Malaysians there study Actuarial Sciences. If you tell random aunty/uncles that you studying actuarial science, their response would be "OH my nephew/niece/relative also studies that in XXX country, you guys are going to be RICH!". So add another 300 oversea actuarial grads to my figure above (sorry im not familiar with oversea uni, so just make a rough estimate), which would sum up to at least 650 actuarial grads.

According to BNM, we have roughly 50 insurance companies (life/general conventional, life/general takaful, general/life reinsurance, general/life retakaful) and about 5 consulting companies offering actuarial services. Assuming each company takes 2~3 fresh graduates each year, 2.5*55 = 137.5 fresh actuarial openings each year, which is actually MUCH HIGHER than the actual number, 137.5/650 = 21%, at most 21% of actuarial graduates can get an actuarial job, while most of the rest end up in banks or non-actuarial positions in insurance companies. 

Feel free to correct my estimates above if you have better/more credible figure.

So it would be fair to say at most 1 out of 5 graduates can get actuarial job, which is certainly not an easy task! For my batch in UKM, only 8 out of 45 students get actuarial job, roughly 18%. I believe the percentage would be much lower for private uni as they take a lot of students.

So, think again before you take actuarial sciences, dont believe whatever BS said in the media/newspaper - "actuarial fresh graduate are highly demanded blah blah blah".  that maybe happen in developed country like US but certainly not in Malaysia.

I think we should do a survey to see how many percentage of students can actually get into actuarial field for each uni

I wouldn't know how many graduates are produced locally, but don't assume all those who start out as students in first year will graduate in actuarial science - a number will drop out.

As for the 20% odds, this is generous I think. You're overestimating the number of companies that hire Actuarial Students (i.e. Analysts). For example, some reinsurers are small branches of larger regional hubs (in Singapore or Hong Kong) and these guys generally do not need recent graduates, so 2-3 per year is unrealistic. Now there are about 7 reinsurers I can think of that operate in Malaysia but if you understand the nature of their business you'll know they don't often want or need grads. I'd say two or three that are big enough to want a couple of grads every year or two. The pure brokers are even more extreme, because they are even smaller branches with even less staff - no room for graduates except once every few years (and they actually don't really need Actuarial Students anyway).

You're right that there are about 4-5 prominent consulting firms that provide actuarial services but only two of them are big and active, the rest don't really need graduates except once in a while. Now of the direct companies I can count below 20 prominent companies in life and/or general and takaful, with about half that have life and general (there are a few more very small companies that have very little presence). In my experience only very large life companies will need 2-3 recent graduate Actuarial Students per year, and this is if they are being aggressive. So the top 5-10 life companies may want 2.5 grads per year, general even less so maybe 1 per year for the top 5. This makes sense too, if a life actuarial dept has only 20 staff then about 10% taken in as grads is realistic, if a little optimistic for the smaller companies.

My count is 25 (life) + 5 (general) + 5 (reinsurance) + 5 (consulting) = 40 positions for graduates.

If you want to estimate the number of people competing for these few positions, do not just count those who leave school. There are plenty of people who graduated in actuarial science in previous years, and are looking for these jobs too (whether or not they have found a job elsewhere). They could be holding out for actuarial jobs for a year, they could be working for a year or more and be hunting for actuarial jobs for several years.

6 schools in Australia teach Actuarial Science. There are 20 or more combined in the UK and Ireland. In America I don't even want to count (because exams are external, in theory you could do any major from Maths, Business, Econ, Finance, Stats, Comp Sci, even if there is no formal Actuarial major), let's say 60. Then you have a few from Hong Kong, Singapore but I won't count these. Let's say you have 10 Malaysian actuarial graduates from each school and half come back to compete for these jobs, that's well over 400 people.

can i know how many person in your batch work in actuarial field?

Does employer refers employee who have exemptions from exam or the ones who actually passed the exams ?

I'm going to try to answer your questions. First and foremost, a degree in Actuarial Science is not necessary for a career in Actuarial Science. The only reason why people choose to do a degree in Actuarial Science is because they want exemptions from professional papers and want a leg up in them. However, I know for a fact that UK companies do not specifically employ students who did Actuarial Science - they hire people who have any Mathematical background. This is because the papers which you get exemptions from (CT1 - 8) are not difficult. In fact, CT7, the economics paper is just a simpler version of the A Levels Economics Paper! I know people who complete their CTs in a year and a half worth of studying, without any exemptions. One more problem I encounter when having a degree in Actuarial Science is that you pigeon hole yourself into that profession. It doesn't allow you to diversify into many other financial branches as it is so specialised in its own way, and that might be hard for a person who wants to find a job which is not actuarial-related in the future. Truth be told, I applied to do Mathematics in Cambridge as well, and if I had gotten the offer, would have accepted it straightaway.

It is good that you are trying to find out that if it is Maths that you like, or is it AS. Actuary's main industry is insurance. They are risk managers, they try to maintain the solvency of the company by managing the risk effectively. In a nutshell, the work that an actuary does in insurance can be divided into two - Pricing and Valuation. In Pricing, actuaries have to price insurance products so that the company will make a profit. This is not as easy as it sounds because the way insurance works, the company only suffers a loss in the future, and it is up to an actuary to price the product in a way that it is improbable for the company to go bankrupt anytime in the future. That is why we have projections and forecasts. In Valuation, actuaries need to take the premiums that people pay to invest in the best possible assets. This is necessary for the company to make a profit, because many products only allow to break-even, and it is up to the actuary to find the most valuable financial assets to invest in. There are consultant and contractor actuaries as well. They move from company to company advising insurance companies on how best to price their products, how they value their products, how they meet regulation, etc... They are one of the most well-paid people in the field. An actuary can become Chief Financial Officer and eventually CEO of a company. The fact is that insurance companies need us. We are the experts when it comes to the financial matters of an insurance firm.
Do let me know if you require more information.

my iI like the work. I like the challenge. I like the fact that I have different stuff thrown at me everyday. Sometimes, it does come to a point when I ask myself if it is worth it, especially having to come back from work and put myself in front of books. But I genuinely love the job I am given, and I really don't see myself doing anything else. I think it is the interest that keeps me here, and the fact that I do like applying Mathematics in practical business problems that helps me maintain nterest in the field. Plus, the fact that once I qualify, I'll get a FIA behind my name, which is pretty cool.

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Added on May 23, 2009, 5:04 pm

No, that is not true. If that were true, we will be out of work in a few years time, when all the young guns come and take over our positions.

Back in Malaysia, due to the low pass rates, there are usually around 1 - 2 qualified actuaries and many actuarial students in each company. I believe that AIA has around 10 qualified actuaries. In the UK, my team alone had 6 qualifed actuaries. And we were only one really really small part of the company, which I believe had around 60 qualified actuaries alone.

Actuaries have the highest turnover I have ever seen. This is because they are so demanded that they just pretty much move from company to company in search of higher pay.

Currently studying AS in um, Third year.

Going to take my third papers but still completely undecided for my future career pathway =3

We do have around 30-35 batchmates per year before this year intake. For year 2014, we have 40 plus juniors. Hope this info help the estimation haha. One more important information is we have largely malay batchmates which more into Takaful or islamic finance side, if you exclude that part of market. However, we still left with around 10-15 who is eagerly to enter actuarial field.

*Numbers stated is for each year and UM providing four year course*

Hi,

I'm currently waiting to be offered into either UM or UKM AS degree. Is it true that the syllabus in UM are more updated as compared to UKM? I'm not very sure about it but rumors had it that the syllabus in UKM are mostly syllabus in 90s and students have to put in comparatively more effort for the external papers.

Hi,

I'm currently waiting to be offered into either UM or UKM AS degree. Is it true that the syllabus in UM are more updated as compared to UKM? I'm not very sure about it but rumors had it that the syllabus in UKM are mostly syllabus in 90s and students have to put in comparatively more effort for the external papers.

From what I understand (was offered ukm as but didn't attend), syllabus is largely the same but it doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, employers only care if you pass your actuarial papers

Currently Ukm gives 2 vee credit while UM gives 3 vee credit. However new syllabus is kicking in for SOA so not sure if this still relevant. Other than that, both degree is equally recognised in the industry, so just grab whichever you get. smile.gif

I believe that people are doing Actuarial Science for the wrong reasons. I hope that this post will actually shatter the disillusionment that people have. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to discourage people to pursue this challenging course, its challenge being its ultimate reward. However, it is disheartening to see so many people get into this course and ending up not being qualified actuaries, because they fail to understand what this course is all about.
First and foremost, my qualifications: I have wanted to do Actuarial Science since I was in Form 4. In college, I did my research and I have looked at the qualifications provided in the UK, US, Australia and Malaysia. I have now finished my final year in Actuarial Science in the UK. I have interned in an insurance company in Malaysia as well as in my current location. And I have been in your shoes before.

To get the ball rolling, here are some misconceptions that need to be cleared up:

1. I want to do Actuarial Science because I like Math.
This is the biggest misconception that people have about Actuarial Science. In actual fact, a good knowledge of Mathematics is necessary, but a great knowledge is not. In the UK, the first 8 professional papers are somewhat Maths-based, but the tougher papers at the end are all written papers, which require a good command of English, a good knowledge of the insurance industry and good critical thinking skills. Throughout my course, the most difficult branch of Maths we did was Calculus and Linear Algebra, and that is not saying much. When you do start working, you will realise that the only Math you need are mostly addition and subtraction. Computer Programming will be the most important skill you will ever need. And to all of those who says that they need Further Math in their A-Levels, I did Math, Economics and Law. If you like Math, do a Mathematics degree.

2. I want to do Actuarial Science because the pay is good.
True, we have one of the highest starting salaries in the business world. Not by much though. The thing is, a qualified actuary does earn a lot. But to get that qualification, one has to pass professional papers, and those are not easy by a mile. The average time it takes to pass all your papers in Malaysia is around 6 years, depending on how good you are. (Some do take more than 10 years) And truth be told, all other professions will be able to earn a satisfactory remuneration within 10 years. If you want the money, go into Investment Banking. In a magazine which I have read, in business, while all other financial workers are paying off their mortgage for their first house, Investment Bankers are buying their second home.

3. I can pass all my professional exams if I work hard enough.
I want to believe this. I really do want to believe this. But with only 50 qualified actuaries in Malaysia, doesn’t it make you doubt that the only reason people are failing is because of a lack of effort? Studying is easy enough. Working is easy enough. Studying while working is not. While I was working in Malaysia, a colleague of mine works from 9 to 7 everyday, if he is lucky. On his way to and back from work, he studies on the LRT. If there is overtime, he will need to stay back and continue working. On weekends, he studies. At night, after being thoroughly exhausted at work, he studies. And while doing all these, he needs to find time for his girlfriend, family and friends. Now, ask yourself this: can you picture yourself doing that for a year? 3 years? 10 years?

I am really glad I chose this course. I know I would spend half my time working staring in a computer at spreadsheets. I know it will be a hard few years in front of me. I also know that I want nothing more than to qualify as a professional actuary, as I do love what I do very much. But I wished I knew what I was in for before I made the decision. And I do hope that people who read this will have the ability to make an informed decision about the course that is Actuarial Science.

I see  What does it mean by VEE credit?

As far as I know, most Malaysian universities do provide VEE exemption from university subjects. So how does the credit works?

Does actuary only working in insurance companies?

VEE credit is part of requirement for you to obtain the Associate title other than exams, module etc. You will be granted exmption for VEE if you get certain grade for approved subject by SOA.

According to your previous reply, you mentioned about UKM giving 2 VEE credit while UM 3 VEE credit. Does it mean that UKM grad would need to take another paper to get the other VEE credit while UM would get a full exemption from VEE?  :confused:

According to your previous reply, you mentioned about UKM giving 2 VEE credit while UM 3 VEE credit. Does it mean that UKM grad would need to take another paper to get the other VEE credit while UM would get a full exemption from VEE?  :confused: