My spottings of Glorry hunters by my IMO definition.
1 - Final Chelsea vs United - A buddy says he supports whoever wins the game .
2 - Earlier this year United lost to Leeds and a United fan say whats the big deal?
3 - All Barcelona fans from 2009-NOW. YES.. ALL
4 - All current City and Spurs fans.
5 - If you support Liverpool then suddenly starts to shout bout Chelsea.. and now City or Arsenal

Perception that United fans are by default glory hunters is sooooo 15 years ago..

well, to be fair,the feeling is mutual as i find your idea of supporting a big English Premier League Club just because they are glamorous or having good players or good juicy history etc a little narrow minded and shallow myself. i am not denying your right to do it. i think its perfectly normal and unstoppable scenario in this globalization age. i just say that this act falls under glory-hunting category...

i don't think narrowing the possibility of clubs you can support means narrowing your thinking. On the contrary, it takes a lot of open thinking to support local football these days and need a lot much more open to fight for it and improve things.. football fans in Malaysia generally has tunneled their views to to support only 4 teams in England all this while... what i would like to do is to suggest them to open their mind more and realize that it does not has to be that way....

the problem here i think is the way you see and position yourself in football spectrum a little bit different than we do. You see football as a commercial product. The way you choose or loyal to any random football club is not different to a consumer choosing and staying loyal to her favorite tomato pasta sauce in the supermarket. You only choose something base on what is most beneficial and useful to you as a user. Which is perfectly normal for a tomato sauce industry as the binding factor between brand-user is the benefits of the product. But not for football clubs because a base of a football club is the relations they have with their base football fans...

For our side, being customers who only stays with the brand because it benefits you is not good enough. A supporter is not a customer who just sticks with the product when its good and leave it when its bad. A supporter's challenge is great especially when your team is at the bottom of 4th division in England or Malaysia and these extreme condition requires special bond. The bond will be much stronger if you have a non-selfish reasons to do it. One of the generally accepted bond is your identity match the identity of the club. And a part of your indentity that usually attached to a football club is your local roots.

this is an excerpt of of challenges faces by Ultras Malaya in sticking up to Malaysian football..

"Some of us have lost their job, had to extend their studies, sneak out from the office, received a warning letter, failed an exam, got fired and there’s even a lad who got divorced just because he is an ultra."-Freddie-

You dont do that when sticking up to your favorite local product at the supermarket or your favorite local movie at the cinema do you... the passion is different and i dont see how you can see it as the same.

if you want to use an analogy you must compare orange with oranges. Football supporting is a movement. Not a product.

One of the famous international movement that's happening right now is the Egyptians people move to overthrow the government. Now as a Malaysian, you can be interested with this juicy historical stuff and can investigate all the chronologies and information from the internet. You probably know and memories more about the facts than the Egyptians do. But its not made the fight yours. In the event the revolt do succeed, of course as a fan of the revolt you will be happy and wave the Egyptian flags around.. but it will never substitute what an Egyptian truly felt about the victory.. because that is their local fight.. not yours...


i never stop anybody from watching, learning and admiring good quality foreign football. What i want is do not take the easy way shortcut by just simply adopting their successes as yours. Instead, take what your learn from outside and implement what you can back home where you belong.

Thats what the Egyptian did. Them Egyptians dont just be happy with Tunisian people's success to get rid of the ruling family, they make it a reason and inspiration to start their own revolt for their own country. Lets us all wish them well and this revolution ends swiftly with a people's victory.

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Added on February 2, 2011, 1:58 pmAnd these blue collared people of Liverpool, why they need to support the club so much? What it is about their football club that makes it a so great and looking forward to each weekends?

Why cant they just support Manchester United or AC Milan?

Can they reach the same effect if they support Liverpool made tomato sauce or support Liverpool made movie in the cinemas?

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Feb 2 2011, 02:00 PM

It makes no difference really.

Local Football vs International Football

Local Product vs International Product

Both items, with local equivalents being available, instead the one from abroad being chosen.

And local roots being the only supposed identity than can get you attached to a club?? Well, I'm pretty sure plenty will disagree there. If so, what is it that made us attached to these clubs that we support i.e. United, Liverpool and so on and so forth?? In my case it was a certain mercurial Frenchman who got me attracted to the club with his suave football, which from then on got me attracted to United.

There's no way you can narrow down local roots as being the only reason what would get someone attached to a particular club. Just because the particular club being supported is not locally based, what makes you think these fans are not sacrificing all to support whichever particular club that they support?? Or that the support and passion is any less to the Ultras that you're describing??

I was in only a 1.5k a month job then and I saved up for my trip, going to Old Trafford with only about 200 pounds (which included my travelling expenses there, match ticket and stadium tour) in my pocket for a 10 day trip. Bringing an empty bottle with me since the tap water there is drinkable in order to save costs and stocking up on biscuits and snacks from here to save up on costs. Had to really stretch my money, but screw it, as long as I get there, I get to watch the match and get to see the stadium, I'm happy.

So in conclusion, to label one as a less passionate fan, just because he's not locally based is in no way correct. As there are plenty other reason which would get one attached to a club, glory and titles aside.

So the next question is why can't you do the same for local football? The way i see it Malaysia football need supporters, they are dying. Unlike foreign league which has worldwide fanbase such as La Liga, BPL, Serie A and so on, Malaysia Liga M doesn't have supporters from western, europe or middle east. So, if we are not supporting and willing to sacrifice for them, who else? And Malaysian can continue to dream to participate in major international tournament such as Asia Cup or World Cup in the future because one organization can't continue to achieve success without the root or base in the hierarchy, in this case loyal fans or supporters they, are the 12 man in the field.

Of course, we can admire and learn from those foreign, but lets not totally forget who we are and where do we live in. In the end, the choice is ours, whether to choose beautiful and fancy stuff but at the same time just let our pride, national football crumble and die slowly or we can make a difference from now on, slowly, one thing at one time because i know it is hard to let go something that we love for so many years.

Actually i have no right to post this and i have been thinking several times whether to post this or not because i am fan of foreign football too, since early 90's, but this is like a reminder to myself. Just like many people, i used to condemn local football just for the sake of condemning without any proper reason, well maybe because they're not popular, school boy quality performance and lot of people in my school and community condemning them at the same time so i think it is okay and cool to condemn them. But the constant posts from local fotball fans here such as aressandro at Malaysian football thread have make me grow interest at local football. I hope it will continue to grow and blossom in the future not "hangat2 tahi ayam".

And this is just my opinion of course it is not 100% correct, no need to agree with me.

My next question to you is, where in that post do I state that I don't watch local football at all?? Again, you're going with the general perception that because people watch international footy, they ignore local ones altogether.

I've never ever condemned local football. The quality is lower without a doubt. My only gripe with local football is they should stop changing things willy nilly. With foreign players, no foreign players...quite a few times that's been changed. And who can forget the 2 referees debacle some time back. It was when FAM kept chopping and changing things every so often was when I'm sure quite a number fans got a bit fedup. FAr from me saying that i go to every single game at the stadium though, cause I don't, just the occasional ones here and there. And was there during the Final against Indo.

Borned in KL, grew up in OJ and for the record, am a Selangor fan with a certain stocky striker named Azman Adnan and Mehmet Durakovic being my favourites.

This post has been edited by air_mood: Feb 2 2011, 03:39 PM

Not fair on Everton fans.. Those who still support them now i would'nt really put it there.
Supporters after Sky sports are fair game to me.. Since theres no real way to watch these teams prior 80's in malaysia. Heck.. Italian football only started shown here at 1990+ and that i used to watch at channel 5 sgapore before they show Oshin LOL. Sky sports thing is by British definition really.

All United fans that suddenly support Madrid cause Ronaldo moved there.
Arsenal fans that support barcelona cause they got Henry.

List is endless

And to relate to other posts. Supporting something cause ur from that country is flawed concept.. Siti Nurhaliza would'nt have anything if only Pahang people supported it. Same as football IMO. Its a false sense of loyalty to expect i have to support Johor FC just because I'm from there.

This post has been edited by Funkypeanuts: Feb 2 2011, 03:34 PM

Man, you misunderstood badly.

actually it was not directed at you and yes it is just a generalization. But from my own observation there are many foreign football fans totally abandon local one. For example, this forum. Did you see how many of discussion about local football compared to foreign? I know it isn't fair by making assumption in the internet, but this is supposed to be the largest Malaysian online community. So what is inside Football Lounge thread basically mirrored what most of Malaysian think about local football, which is i can say lesser interest. Maybe i was misunderstood but i can't contain myself from posting my rant. I'm not sure anymore whether this is related to glory hunter or not.

Giving yourself a pat on the back are you?

When did we claim that we are the only loyal fans again? What does us being fans of predominantly the more globally recognized clubs have to do with other clubs not having fans? Smaller clubs have less global support and your point is what?

Before givin yourself a clap, perhaps you might want first to check if your question is phrased properly.

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Added on February 2, 2011, 5:12 pm@angel of death. Think your question should be directed at me since I don't have the same affinity for local football any anymore. I've voiced my reasons why earlie if you scroll back, twice in fact. Instead of addressing it however, I received feedback like, "you should support your local team regardless". This is a completely invalid response as it avoids addressing the issue. Care to have a crack?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Feb 2 2011, 05:12 PM

A lot of English fans start liking teams because of the way they played.

And a lot of English fans are formed by their view of football when they were kids and didn't care about the various politics behind the clubs but how they played. Liverpool gained a lot fans this way around Europe and England.

Also, fans of Dalglish from Celtic were also prone to become fans of Liverpool.

That's all natural, not glory hunting.

Else, a bulk of Englishmen are all glory hunters as well.

Also, if you've watched a lot of football shows, you're bound to see a feature on a fan who watches all the matches and knows all the locals of a club but has no previous connection whatsover, like that Bristol guy who goes to watch Shamrock Rovers home games and have a drink after at the pub. He takes a weekly flight from his home just to watch the game and only follows the club because he once visited a friend there.

Is he a glory hunter if because he watches the games of a successful top-tier Irish club over the perennial lower league clubs of Bristol?

Again, English fans themselves have acted in the same way we do for ages. Your definition of a "real" fan being the norm in England is a figment of your imagination.

Finally, Yukieliow, it will be great if you actually addressed the specific points of others, instead of coming up with quickfire posts that rehashes and repeats the same old argument again and again.

What's so wrong to be glory hunter? Why argue so much... as long you know what are you doing and you are happy with it ...why care so much about others opinion? Yes you can call me Glory Hunter but what are you getting in the end?

I'm sure Lin Dan and Chong Wei had a lots fans around the world.... are they benn called Glory Hunter just because they are supporting a top top player?????

NO... that is because they produce something excellent and fantastic performance on the court.... that make the fans adore them... there is really nothing wrong... People will only get interested if they see something that amaze them in the eye... then from there only they start supporting the team/player... i really see no wrong here...

I can see some ppl at here that just argue for the sake of arguing....

This post has been edited by leongtat: Feb 2 2011, 07:56 PM

I don't think you're getting the gist of the argument

i have read your reasoning some days ago and i vaguely remember it. But if i'm not mistaken it is related to the greedy politician and some player did not get paid due to the bad finance management by the state government right?
For me it is simple, if you truly love the club automatically you're willing to do anything to save the club. Make a petition, organize a road show or voice your content publicly toward the management staff just like what those Kopites and Manchester fans did to the owners (Gillett & Hicks & Glazer) in the UK. It is your club, you attended their matches, you have all the right about them. Politic and football can't be separated.
But if you chose to completely abandon it without doing anything, so in my opinion your affection toward local football scene is not same in the first place compared to your affection with Liverpool FC.

Sorry i have limited amount of knowledge in english and real world issue so i don't think i can catch up with you.

I don't mind being called a glory hunter as long as I can continue to support Man Utd which I already did for the past 9 years.

dont tell me u're happy just watching the game infront of stadium astro rather than inside old trafford.
if u happy watching man u on astro... i can honestly say u looks football as an entertainment, u might not be too passionate about football (main futsal or anything) and u don't care local football

You are absolutely right. My affection for my local side is as you say, not as strong and here's why. I started really young and since then I've realized that a person needs more than just fancy football and trophies from his club to really truly fall in love. Other than the fact I was born in Selangor, I never found that connection back then. As I grew older and was exposed to more information regarding local football, how they are all state run by politicians and in some cases royalty, and I grew less interested. After reading about how these same politicians supported racist policies and so on, I really had nothing to make me want to stay loyal anymore. Now you are right, I didn't have a strong enough cause to make me want to take to the streets and risk getting arrested by the ISA or whoever. I never found that one compelling reason. As I'm older now I have less reason to picket in public or whatever knowing it will make little difference. Also, arressandro mentioned how really hard core fans would protest, quit their jobs or whatever for their clubs. He's right, I'm not as crazy as these fans. I have a job, I have to support myself and my future family, I have people who have invested time and money in me to see me make a future for myself. I have in my mind, bigger and more important obligations. In terms of local footie I focus on the bigger picture, I vote.

Let me ask you this. Do you think the FAM would have seen a need to rebrand local football had fans not stayed away? Would they even entertain the notion of privatizing the league and clubs in the manner Kelantan has? They realize that they need to take drastic steps to win the fans back. When clubs are privatized, the onus to market themselves will now be placed on the individual owners and no longer will there be a need to suck state funds. Individual owners will each run their own clubs the way they see fit. You will also see a huge rise in investment as sponsors of all sorts look to brand teams, dugouts, a-boards, scoreboards, match day programmer and so on. Now what I'm saying now may seem irrelevant or even like nonsense to some, but I don't care. This is what is going to happen in the next few years. I have friends in the MSL, acquantainces in KAFA, friends who are sports promoters and I know a couple of sports journalists. If I'm wrong then so are they. When football should one day be "cleansed" of politicians who stand for things I absolutely am against, local football will slowly begin to look more appealing again.

Needless to say I'm already expecting half-wit responses like, "who cares? You are still a glory hunter!", instead of well thought out replies. Predictable.

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Added on February 3, 2011, 9:14 amI have no issues whatsoever with fans still supporting local sides because they can deal with the issues I've just mentioned, they don't feel it or they don't care. From what I gather however, many do so simply because they were born there. If I were to ask for other compelling reasons eg club values/tradition, will these answeres differ much from those who support overseas clubs?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Feb 3 2011, 09:14 AM

By your reasoning if one is passionate about football automatically he's passionate bout local football? It has nothing to do with the fact that United, Barcelona, Madrid and such are actually playing better entertaining football than local football? Personally i find it hard to care about other footballing clubs local or international wise other than United.

In the end it all goes back to our government, you're not the only one. There are many others didn't want to support local football or anything that associate with our government this days. About that racist policies, it is hard (you has stated before that you're not fond of NEP right?). No country in the world is 100% open without racial discrimination. I don't think Malaysia is that bad when compared to Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, Some part of US, Greece, Denmark, Holland and many others. In this case, i don't know why and how Indonesian can stay united when it come about their TIMNAS and local football. You see, most of them hate their corrupt politician which run their football team and their country, but at the same time they didn't neglect their responsibility toward their football club regardless of which race they are coming from, why can't we do the same? So in the end, it coming back to us, the people. Whether to stay through thick or thin or just abandon it when it all went wrong.

Which is the thing. You can't organize street protests against an oppressive entity and then go out supporting their affiliates. It just means you protest only when it's convenient. In the end, fans staying away from local stadiums has forced the MSL into action. Has Indonesian football changed ?Sometimes you do have to be cruel to be kind whatever your motives.

Here's an example. When the Glazers took over Man Utd, fans sold their shares in protest. When G&H screwed Liverpool over, fans boycotted merchandise. These are local fans mind you not foreign ones. Sure creating a ruckass on the streets gets you in the headlines but it results in little unless profits get hit.

If you are completely happy with everything on the other hand, please carry on supporting. I'm not going to criticise anyone for not supporting, or not caring or knowing.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Feb 3 2011, 02:47 PM

if u're passionate abt football, u're always interested to play football..no matter u're kaki bangku or wat.
local football doesnt necessary means selangor or kelantan..
ur kids playing at taman, things like that will be enough.

and from ur explaination..i can clearly looks that u're looking football as an entertainment ...


someone who's passionate abt football also doesnot watch a single team..they watch anything on the tv (i mean any match) browse goal.com and checkout about other teams stuffs like that.
watching football for the sake of United instead of watching United for the sake of football DO have different meanings braahhh