Debate ni mcm nak tau mana satu keluar dulu..telo ke ayam?

Kalau org tu lahir Manchester mesti ade sebab die sokong either MUFC or MCFC..the reason would be the style of the play football, the individual that they most idolized, or might be the team all trophies etc..

So kalau die pilih team because of team tu selalu menang of course la die glory hunters..

I think same applies to fan over the world..

So how on earth all MUFC fan terlibat jd glory hunter???

I started to like MUFC because of giggs and cantona before even though they win a lot of trophies..but if u think that I am a glory hunter then be it. I have no power to stop people from judging me. And that's a fact.

People have their own perception. Seriously u can't forced people to follow your opinion but u can have a debate just to get a clearer picture from the question.

Right me if I'm wrong.

Yup exactly. Following that logic,any fan who isn't from England is a glory hunter. I,myself,became a Man Utd fan after watching Beckham and Giggs. When i used to play football,i always tried to do the things Beckham used to do. Following the club and the players naturally,my love for the club grew when my dad bought me a Man Utd jersey with the 'Sharp' sponsor from Manchester. I never knew about the titles and stuff at that point.

I think, in your defense, you were visiting there isn't it?

And when I was there, I see sea of Reds from the Trafford Centre till the stadium. It's fun. I walked my way to the stadium with some of them after taking the train. And they are quite friendly as well. I chatted with some of them. And they quite amazed when I told them I came all the way from Malaysia just to watch a match.

That said, there were also 'bad apples'. Like I have mentioned in my previous posts.

I've posted about this a couple of years ago about the MYTH of more Mancunian are City fans rather than United fans.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=24451292

Link to the research

to stick to a culture of supporting you own local club without question requires a lot of will power, passion, selflessness and sacrifices... a lot never got any on-field-success as a reward at all for their effort...

so when they do reach the period where they get the success and the glory... they will embrace it more personally...

so when a group of people conveniently exist when the club wins stuff or have a good player who can cross the ball better than most, and goes with the image of "Hi mate. You see my team back home sucks because of this XXX reasons so i dun want anything to do with those losers. I see your team are quite glamorous and i conveniently want to be loyal to your club instead even-though its not really my club. And there is nothing you can do about it..." ... it will also irks me too... but i will also say nothing about it because i am polite and quite frankly, there is nothing i can do about it....

the 'bad apples' are probably the less polite ones...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Feb 1 2011, 07:37 PM

Well, we do have them 'bad apples' here too. Supporting local teams lagi.

A point to note is that English fans are wary of foreign ones, hence the anti - OOT sentiment. I've noticed from forums however that they are becoming a little more accepting especially if you know your stuff. I met a Red from Norway once called Jan. He spoke to me on a forum and told me he was going to visit KL and asked if I knew a good place to watch the game. I offered to pick him and his mates up from his hotel and I took them out to watch games. We've been corresponding since. He travels to watch the occassional game and was in Istanbul. You'll find that many fans who aren't from England are that serious. What about the Greek contingent that travelled to Anfield for the Hillsborough service.

Would anyone here not want to watch every game live if he could? I think sweeping aside the economic consideration for this is foolish. How many RM 6,000 trips can one make in a year? It is definitey a valid reason not to go but it doesn't mean that one doesn't want to go. Armchair fans are those in the area but choose to watch from home instead.

Anyway when I was at the Albert having a few pints with the locals, they were initially skeptical when I told them I was a fan from Malaysia. After 30 mins of conversation however they found I could hold my own in a conversation with them and warmed to me. If a local can accept me as a fan, who is anyone here to judge?

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Feb 1 2011, 06:54 PM

Yukielow

Aku rase aku tak sampai tahap kondem lagi. Cuma thread ni citer pasal definisi glory-hunter dan aku bagi pointers aku ape yang aku rase maksud spatutnya bagi glory-hunters tu. Aku cannot avoid kalau ade orang terkena. Dan aku dan beberapa kali cakap glory-hunting tu walaupun sound bad, tapi a perfectly normal human nature. Kalau kita dah termasuk dalam golongan tu dan tak boleh berenti, teruskanlah.. cuma aku harap boleh terima hakikat.. tu je...

Tak pernah bro. Bole elaborate sikit. Dan citer sikit kenapa rakyat kita tak ada semangat yang sama..

EPL setiap tahun mempunyai peruntukan untuk marketing, mmg adalah kesannya.
Indonesian maybe punyai gaya hidup yg berbeza dgn kita, so mentaliti mereka lain. Aku ada dgr dari sorang kawan yg pnah gi Indonesia & Acheh mengatakan orang Indonesia ni tegas dan berpendirian, x mudah di pengaruhi dalam bab2 asal usul dan jati diri mereka lg2 mereka yg berasal dari Acheh sbab mereka nk menuntut kemerdekaan dari Indonesia . Aku rse bnda ni mmg ada kaitan jugak klau dipikir betul2.
Bkan maksud aku rakyat Malaysia x de jati diri tp mungkin kita dh terbiasa dgn liga luar + kejatuhan mutu Liga M pada 90'an buat kita kurang minat terhadap bola sepak negara.

This post has been edited by Angel of Deth: Feb 1 2011, 07:11 PM

i dont agree that it falls down to the decision by the club. Club management, especially investors, are under commercial obligation to accept all possible revenue potential for profit or for the clubs's financial survival.

i would rather if you as the club's firm or ultras leader instead. They know better about what the club represents. If the firm leader is an hippie who would accept anyone as their fan and it make no difference if the club is moved from one end of the country to the other then so be it..

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Added on February 1, 2011, 7:14 pmAgree. Players or the club's view does not matter because they have monetary objective to achieve.

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Feb 1 2011, 07:14 PM

Ini and dorang barely ade entertainment sangat. Compared to Malaysians, yang mostly ade ASTRO kat umah. Dorang kadang2, kais pagi makan pagi, kais petang makan petang. Even ade yang duduk dalam pondok/kedai yang dorang wat sendri tepi2 jalan. Trust me, they would do almost anything for money. Kesian ade. Kalau nak tengok corruption, Indonesia > Malaysia.

And mana2 yang 'mampu', dorang support local team dengan gi stadium. But of course, benda ni pun overshadowed gak ngan kepadatan rakyat dorang. Tak semua yang support local team. Ade je yang support BPL, Laliga and etc punya liga je. But when it comes to national team, dorang definitely support. Compared ngan Malaysians, dorang ni lagi patriotic. Perbezaan dari segi pentadbiran negara pun main peranan penting. Dorang takde 'ikut tona' kulit.

No, you're saying that because we buy imported goods, that makes the argument of supporting your local club moot.

It does not.

Imported goods are transferrable items. Football clubs are fundamentally local institutes first. They are not defined by the merchandise they sell, but the local identity they have.

This has change with a lot of clubs of course, but a club is more of an identity than a commodity.

So just because we buy imported goods, doesn't make the encouragement to support local clubs any less viable.

That's my point.


A lot of the English don't think like that. We'd have a chat about Arsenal over a pint, no problem. Doesn't matter that I was not born anywhere near N5, because I can hold my banter well.

You're basically pretending to know what "real" fans think, when you don't.

Football spectatorship has always started out as a working class thing. Same in Malaysia, you won't see many middle class folks in the stadia at most times.

Indonesia has more working class people willing to put their time into their team's support.

That, of course, is just one factor.

the important thing for me is not about the money. its being there as a statement of support..

but of course being there is only one thing that supporters of the club do... but its not the only defining thing...

From what i know, and you probably know better, Liverpool football clubs for instance represent the struggle of Liverpool's middle class society in and industrial city....

so the liverpool-middle-class group, or even the beggars in the street of liverpool, who dont have the money to attend the matches, but have the will to wish the club success because thats that would would the only upbeat or success in their mundane daily lives,... then they are already true supporter to me..

of course fans who can afford it also must contribute financially... as money also important ins this world...

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Added on February 1, 2011, 7:31 pmactually all of his points are actually mine too.. We set a definition and base on said reasons, he find himself falls into it... so he accept and admit it... i also did the same when i find myself in that glory-hunter definition... so i can also admit it...

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Added on February 1, 2011, 7:34 pmok i will take that bait. No.. if he stops smoking he is not a smoker anymore...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Feb 1 2011, 07:45 PM

When I mean the "club", I mean everyone indeed, not just those who run things.

Also, not all boards are under the obligation to maximise revenues. Witness how German clubs cannot raise their ticket prices beyond 20 Euros, because their priority are the fans' opinions.

I would not ask the ultras or the firm leaders exclusively. Some of these twats don't care about the footie, but just want some tribal aggression. If I had to listen to the Italian ultras, I would apparently be a subhuman monkey.

Also, firms are never the majority. Never even close. They've been diluted in the larger fanbase (who may be local and lifelong supporters without membership in any firms) and what they have left is loudness. Hardly a grant for extra votes on who can decide the club's direction.

Firms themselves are sometimes merely abusive factions, like how Spanish firms fight each other to monopolise ticket sales (which is why I have a Spanish friend who prefers to support lowly Granada over the other tempting clubs nearby) which are done with some clubs through fan associations.

A "club" can decide what they want from the club, and that includes the owners, players, staff and fans. And the fact of the matter is, there are numerous clubs in Europe who have open-minded fanbases and owners. But in the end, even these people will never agree and there will always be dissenting arguments

And that's the beauty of it, there are no single person who can define a club!

That's my point to Yukieliow, that he cannot pronounce for everyone what is a "real" fan, because there is no such absolute thing.

I did the same. Maybe I was lucky in the sense that I found some very welcoming ones. When I made the trip down to Old Trafford, I took the tram from the City Centre. But instead of heading down straight to Old Trafford, which unquestionably what most fans would do, I dropped down at the Trafford Bar station, which was one station away from Old Trafford. Met some regular matchgoers whom I met at a UK based United forum at a bar called The Tollgate. They actually appreciated the fact that instead of heading to the stadium, I took my time to meet up with them before heading to the stadium. Offered me a pint which I politely declined as I'm not a drinker. And these people are groups of people who not only goes to home matches regularly but also go to Away Euro games regularly. Same bunch of people I followed on a 10 minute walk from the bar to the stadium where we talked about United and stuff. Same time I had the conversation I mentioned earlier about how this one currently, London based fan making the trip down to Old Trafford thinking it's nothing comparing the 15 hours trip or so I have to make to go to OT.

Further point that if you actually know your stuff, they wouldn't really care where you're from as long as your heart and soul is with the team. Back the team instead of doing all things touristy.

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Added on February 1, 2011, 8:07 pmHis points are a bit a crazy. Levels of glory hunter?? Seriously??

And are you seriously trying to say you champion his points i.e. it's okay to jump ship whenever you please?? Which he has openly states he does?? Seriously??

As for your points, I've stated repeatedly that I disagree with them. Good for you for championing local football and all but your opinions are too narrow minded for my liking. Especially the parts where it's okay to enjoy and support anything international, as long as it's not a football club. Sorry, don't buy it at all. It might be a commodity or product, there's no differentiating it. You're still supporting it, contributing to it and at teh same time, hurting it's local equivalent when you choose it over the local equivalent. Either it's OK for everything or it's not OK at all. A bit to willy nilly for my liking when it's something that you do i.e. movies and such, it's OK to go for international products.

It's your opinion though. Just don't expect it to be the determining opinion and people to agree with it.

This post has been edited by air_mood: Feb 1 2011, 08:16 PM

I agree completely it isn't about the money hence my sarcastic implication that the richer fan will always be the "better" fan if it were so. Your mate went on to suggest that by virtue of not buying tickets and going to stadiums, we don't actually "own" the club. I brought up the issue of merchandise and then the goalpost shifted again. Supporting the club by buying merchandise is not the same as buying tickets. Is it about money? Nope. You are right about Liverpool and it's blue collared background. Many were mere dock workers back then. It's why the club has tried it's level best to resist charging exuberant ticket prices.

So can we safely say that we can categorized them as

Category 1
Glory Hunters - Bandwagon Jumpers i.e joining the celebration & parade viz singing 'Glory, Glory ...XXXXX' or YNWA (i.e. you never celebrate alone in my definition)

Category 2
Underdog Glory Hunters - viz anybody but united?

This post has been edited by CityBluePrint: Feb 2 2011, 01:48 AM

I think people are coming out with variations to suit their own arguments. If you ask me, the term is pretty straightforward. It is basically a person whose allegiance is solely to perpetual success.

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that any person who supports a foreign club over a local one is a glory hunter. The definition has no relation whatever to the words in the term. How is a person Who supports Norwich or Southampton and glory hunter? What fooking glory have they attained?

If anything should be in question, it's the reason behind why a person supports the club that he or she has chosen. Is it purely superficial or is there a deeper underlying reason? You simply cannot lump the two together.

glory hunter also can be tagged to people who wants to win debates, without wanting to take other peoples opinion. tagging people with a blink of an eye, like "united fans are glory hunters, chelsea fans are plastic, you're not born from liverpool, you must be a GH". apa lah you ni...

in this case, glory hunters are people who worries about other people loyalty or fan-ism, whether those people support for the right cause or not, for the glory or for the history. glory hunters are worried their FAN-ISM or LOYALTY is minor/little than others, so they start questioning other people motives and backgrounds, and try to put other people below them. so they can feel superior and belonged.

loyalty have to start somewhere. either by glory, history, or just for the sake of liking a player. heck, i have friends who likes footballs team that have a great kit design and switch every year! another one support teams that have an upcoming games with United! switch every 4 days!

football supposed to bring fans closer together. when we're at mamak, watching a game, when your team score, we cheered, shout and high-fives each other across the table even we're strangers from different ethnic, background. we dont care if you are a GH or not, you're still a fan of the team. be it a BPL match, kelantan v selangor match etc.

who gives the rights to some of you tagging people GLORY HUNTERS? how would you know you're not one of them? By what specification you called some people GH and you're not? Maybe in your eyes, you're a true fan, but from other people opinions, you maybe one of them GH that you hate.

plz la dont start to question other people fan-ism or loyalties.

its just football. let just enjoy it.

apa mau gaduh gaduh?