Need some feedback from the BBers here. Helping a friend on this and I must admit that BB diet plans confuses me because everyone has a different opinion in BB.com. And all the other posts around don't really talk about the nutrition plan in total i.e. a one day meal plan and more of specific things like pre-post workout.

So, I wanted to get your feedback to some questions :

1. What is the ratio for protein, carb, fat? I'm seeing things from 40:40:20 to 60:20:20 to 40:20:40.
2. Is it based on kcal or gram of each of the component in the food?
3. Would the ratio change for different stages of BB e.g. losing weight, bulking, maintenance?
4. How often do you change your ratios? Weekly, monthly, quarterly, half yearly?
5. What triggers you to adjust your protein, carb, fat intake? Visual inspection of muscle or body fat count?
6. Is the ratio based on what is consumed in total per day or per every meal?
7. Do you consider taking low GI food or a mix of low GI + med GI food?
8. I've seen some food plans from ppl in the Members Journal forum. Does anyone of you go for blood tests to check if your liver functions checks out alrite i.e. within the normal range specified in the report?

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Added on April 9, 2009, 8:50 amPostnote : I'm putting this post in here so that I can get specific answers from BBers and not from random public answers in H&F forum.

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 9 2009, 08:50 AM

wikisan - you come out with some good tough questions.....

For some of your queries, you can try www.fitday.com

1. It depends on your goals
2. Total caloric contribution for each 'macro'
3. Exactly, refer 1.
4. CKD requires no change at all if it works well for you. If you're on bulking/cutting/bulking/cutting, I'd do it like Layne Norton does it. 6 weeks bulk 2 weeks cut.
5. Visual inspection, recovery rate, growth rate, performance at the gym.
6. Total definitely.
7. Low GI. When I was on a strict diet all I took for carbs was oats. GI is not that important a factor as Alan Aragon stressed many times already. What's more important is that your carbs be complex.
8. I've been tested before 3 years ago to be fine. I may test again soon.

Hmm... I'm not sure Fitday can fit it as it seems like a tracking journal rather than setting specific requirements. But I'll check it out tonite.

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Added on April 9, 2009, 12:41 pm
1. It depends on your goals
Remi : Can you be more specific? BB.com has just too many articles with different ratios for just one goal e.g. bulking.

2. Total caloric contribution for each 'macro'
Remi : Hmmm... but there are some sub-rules right? Like carbo = complex carbo and fat = healthy fat?

3. Exactly, refer 1.
Remi : refer to my answer 1. But for Q3, I'll take it out.

4. CKD requires no change at all if it works well for you. If you're on bulking/cutting/bulking/cutting, I'd do it like Layne Norton does it. 6 weeks bulk
2 weeks cut.
Remi : What's CKD? Hmm.... how do people generally make changes when they are fitting their program? 1 week observation?

5. Visual inspection, recovery rate, growth rate, performance at the gym.
Remi : Sounds like detailed observation log tracking. 2 things : recovery rate and growth rate - what are your measurables?

6. Total definitely.
Remi : ok

7. Low GI. When I was on a strict diet all I took for carbs was oats. GI is not that important a factor as Alan Aragon stressed many times already. What's more important is that your carbs be complex.
Remi : Hmm...and a question, do you experience the effects of sudden surge of high blood sugar when you take more med/high GI food than you should have? This can be anything with a lot of refined white sugar (e.g. cakes, kuih, soft drinks) to refined carbo.

8. I've been tested before 3 years ago to be fine. I may test again soon.
Remi : Hmm...you guys don't check on an annual basis?

Another 2 questions :

9. Do BBers usually smoke or not?

10. do BBers usually drink a lot or not? A lot is more than 1 mug per week.

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Added on April 9, 2009, 12:41 pmtengster : GG, calling me wikisan. Adoh!

This post has been edited by myremi: Apr 9 2009, 12:41 PM

I should get paid for this

1. You wanna bulk 40/40/20 looks good. I had like 42.5/42.5/15 roughly. Cyclic ketogenic diet (CKD) can comp you (clean bulk) so the macros go way off to like 50/0/50 but of course you can get in a low amount of carbs daily.

2. Carbs is carbs. Making it complex would only be better for your bulk. Having natural fats would only be better for your bulk.

4. Trial and error. CKD is cyclic ketogenic diet. I should be less ambiguous, sorry.

5. Recovery and growth rate is proportionate to performance at the gym.

7. I haven't had a sugar high in a while. But everyone gets it. The reason why I haven't had a sugar high is simply because I don't take that large amount of sugar (only 35g after gym)

8. Scared of needles.

9. Never puffed a cig.

10. A lot is not 1 mug. A lot is exceeding your weekly allowable 'units of alcohol'. A pint of beer is ~2 units. Weekly allowance for male is 21 units and female 14 units. Back to the point, I don't drink unless I have to (friend's birthday he's feeding me champagne, girls wants to get drunk so we can get jiggy with it, etc).

I should be paid to ask questions and answer them too.

Macro = macronutrients?

Actually not. You gave me something to hunt down now and the first few googled sites gave some insights.

Hmmm.....ok.

Blindfold yourself or bring along your gf/wife to frenchkiss you while the blood sample is being taken. The latter is a good distration I would think and you wouldn't be able to see the needles.

If you thought needles were scary, you should see the 2 holes that gets put into your abdomen during the bypass surgery. After the surgery, you'd have 2 tubes of 1 inch thick with blood + other waste draining out of your body while you're still conscious. This, more than anything else, made me decide to take things seriously when the high BP came.

I should stress that my replies are my opinions and what I gather from reading around.

Other people will have their opinions, so take mine with a pinch of salt.

I know. Don't worry lah.

Getting an earful from pizzaboy as well.

I didn't say anything!!!!

Heh! I meant that you will giving me some hints too.

What is the ratio for protein, carb, fat? I'm seeing things from 40:40:20 to 60:20:20 to 40:20:40.
Ratio differs on goals. So the math comes into play when you already figure where you want to head.

Is it based on kcal or gram of each of the component in the food?
Calories are king.

Would the ratio change for different stages of BB e.g. losing weight, bulking, maintenance?
Usually your body adapts to a diet change in approximately 1 week. As much as I never liked keto diets, their adaption period makes alot of sense. Search the Anabolic Diet.

How often do you change your ratios? Weekly, monthly, quarterly, half yearly?
Refer to answer 1

What triggers you to adjust your protein, carb, fat intake? Visual inspection of muscle or body fat count?
Mirror is the best ever result consultant. Body fat is equal.

Is the ratio based on what is consumed in total per day or per every meal?
Like I said, calories are king. However, never neglect the importance of quality calories. Drinking a jug of coke per meal will never help.

Do you consider taking low GI food or a mix of low GI + med GI food?
Balance is key here. Simple carbs have a fast rate of digestion. Post/Pre workout Drop by Pubmed to read journals they made on triggering the insulin.

I've seen some food plans from ppl in the Members Journal forum. Does anyone of you go for blood tests to check if your liver functions checks out alrite i.e. within the normal range specified in the report?
Some say its a myth. No harm checking. Yes, most of the dietician are lab junkies. If you happen to drop by a good one, by all means go ahead. Genetics don't count.

This post has been edited by shanecross: Apr 10 2009, 08:02 PM

shanecross : when you mention PubMed have some interesting stuff to read, you weren't kidding.

Dietary protein safety and resistance exercise: what do we really know?

International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: Nutrient timing

Protein and Overtraining: Potential Applications for Free-Living Athletes

Hmmm....although these are for athletes and the bodybuilders mentioned are powerlifters, I think.

And it looks like they use g rather than kcal to get the carbo : protein : fat ratio. So, which is correct : g or kcal?

Hmm....one thing that's interesting to note is that if using protein as an energy source an additiona 2000-3500 kcal is needed. It's in one of the articles.

Just for the amusement of some analysis-paralysis fagots at LYN:
SI 1 kilogram is equal to 2.1480764331E+16 calories

Fat: 1 gram ~ 9 calories
Protein: 1 gram ~ 4 calories
Carbohydrates: 1 gram ~ 4 calories
Alcohol: 1 gram ~ 7 calories

...conversion between the two must be hard too, I guess.

Well, I never knew any part of my reply which is funny.





Post workout

But still these are journals, they are studies made by people ATW. It may differ.

This post has been edited by shanecross: Apr 12 2009, 05:48 PM

cofactor-3 & shanecross :

Oppsy. Sorry if I came across as rude and degaratory. When it's only text, I forget to be careful with words when I start getting very analytical.

TBH, I wasn't thinking that conversions of g to kcal would have been that simple on the premise that the heat values may be different from food to food. E.g. non-poultry meat would have streaky fat in them if you look at beef, pork, dear, compared to chicken.

Hmm...I guess I would be labelled as an analysis-paralysis faggot with the direct questioning. I'm anal in that sense when it comes hunting for an answer.

But bear in mind that one of the LYN members who has a workout journal got very confused with some of the terminology used and sent me a PM for help. So, most I can do is ask for clarification here.

Hmm... it's true that these are journals but at least it provides some insights to how ppl look at diets and safety measures. I understand that it's not a place to look for a "One-Rule-Fits-All".

This is ludicrous.

All organisms get their energy from the same source, primary the solar sun. Trophic dynamics (ecology) of a biomass obeyed the law of Conservation of energy. Be it from different food samples they all add up the same in the end.

Enough flattering with the few fagots at LYN.

@CoFactor-3:

I'd hate to jump to conclusions, but are you taking the piss at us?

@myremi:

To answer your question again, the convention of counting macros (at least on BB.com) is to use kCal instead of gram. Scientific publications would use different units of measurement depending on their purpose of research. Read 'methods' that come along with the article to find out why they used grams instead of kCal.

If you're counting kCal of meat. There is fat in meat, you have to break it down to protein, fat, carb (chicken breast has 0 carb if I remember correctly), and then following that find out your macros.

I would say counting macros is really not necessary. It's good to get a rough idea of how much kCal you're getting in a day but to be so specific about things doesn't get you anywhere. I'm sure pizzaboy has told you the same thing that counting macros for everything is just silly.

I didn't bother to read the rest (not saying you're posting crap mind you, just that I've got my nutrition right under the belt but my only beef is with this).

Counting macros is not necessary? I guess probodybuilders have been doing it wrong all this time. Damn... Sergio Olivia, Arnold, Frank Zane... they've all been wrong. Seriously bro. You need to understand, always look at the physique of those who do the talking. Who would you listen to if someone gave you advice on nutrition at BB.COM? A 220lbs bodybuilder like Hola Bola or a typical member with a scrawny physique.

Counting macros not necessary. Ridiculous mate! What makes up the calories you consume determines WHAT you look like. Simple logic. If your diet has a caloric deficit and you'd have a choice of which macros to use to fill it in, what's the most logical choice? Go figure.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Apr 13 2009, 07:04 AM

edit.

This post has been edited by mofonyx: Apr 13 2009, 09:14 AM

Oh err... Was it something I post earlier?